Tool
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35512
Printed Date: January 30 2025 at 09:52
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Tool
Posted By: Xalita
Subject: Tool
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:31
| Can this wonderfull band we all love really be considered progressive metal in the real sense of the word? |
Replies:
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:33
|
And what is "progressive metal in the real sense of the word"? Be honest. ------------- sig |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:35
|
Yes
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
|
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:37
|
Not to be rude, but you seem to be new here. Check out Tool in the search option and you will find that this has been discussed to death...
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
|
Posted By: Drakk
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:39
|
He didn't offer an explanation.
I want to know why. ------------- [QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss] I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde! Al di Meola. [/QUOTE] haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde [/QUOTE] |
Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:47
|
"Band we all love" ? Speak for yourself. ------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday |
Posted By: darksideof
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:54
|
I think when they first started they were probably more metal Than Prog. Now I think they are more prog-rock band than a prog-metal band.
I love all their Albums.
for me Tool sounds so much like these bands, that I Also love: They are like a melting pot of these bands:
Pink Floyd
king crimson
Black Sabbath
Rush
Led Zeppelin ------------- http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/ http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/ https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/ |
Posted By: polyrythmic
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 17:12
| Art Rock |
Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 17:23
|
There's not really that much metal in Tool... Some, but I think progressive rock is an equally good tag for Tool, if not better. Whether or not they're progressive? You bet they are. ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
|
Posted By: Malve87
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 17:27
|
Yes they're Prog Metal...They've been so influenced by King Crimson, for instance.... Their impact is VERY metal...
------------- ] 
|
Posted By: TheProgMonster
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 22:25
|
This page defines them as "prog-metal", which I think hurts thier ratings here. Tool is nothing like typical prog-metal bands like Dream theater, Fates Warning, and the such, but I think the art-rock genre would be more fitting for Tool's sound and creativity. |
Posted By: lighthouse
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 22:29
I am not going to argue about this just state my own opinion I don`t think they are typically progressive to the true sense of the word , what tool are prog visionaries, Tool seem to provide a blue print for other more typical prog artists to follow ... so yes they are very important to the modern prog movement for this reason. 
|
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 22:41
I also agree that thats where they belong ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
|
polyrythmic wrote:Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 22:45
|
"Band we all love" ? Speak for yourself."
Amen to that |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 22:51
| I still here metal when I listen to them, so I think they should still be prog metal. |
Posted By: Chewy
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 23:36
|
I consider tool a rock band........ with their own unique sound...... Adam's riffing is very metallic....but they are far beyond the boundaries of metal or prog-metal...
|
Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 06:37
|
I hear "metal" when I listen to them. And they are definitely "progressive". So it seems a suitable label.
Whereas others like Dream Theater, for me, are not really metal at all.....
|
Posted By: CrazyDiamond
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 07:12
Search Function  ------------- 
|
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 09:10
|
Tired of defending them.
Either you like them or you don't,makes no difference to me personally. -------------  |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 09:27
|
Tool Art Rock? One of the biggest complains of people who complains of
Tool is that they are more a pure Metal (nu-metal) band than prog Metal. Everything that Tool has ever done cannot be dissociated from metal. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 09:41
That's a failure of nomenclature, as nu-metal is in effect an offshoot of alternative rock, as opposed to heavy metal. ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 09:55
i second that... Tool's music has nothing to do with nu-metal/crossover/hardcore or anything like that.. Tool are pure prog rock and it takes a lot more than tuned down strings, distorted guitars and angry vocals to be considered metal.. ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: Chewy
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 11:02
who said art rock
for example.........wheres the metal in schism or reflection??
where's the metal in wings for marie (I & II)?
where's the metal in jimmy?
...its a long list
|
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 11:07
 If you put Tool in art rock, why not put Fates Warning in art rock as well. FW are less heavy than Tool. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 11:19
| ^It's not about heaviness. Tool just doesn't sound Metal-ish. I also think they should be moved to Art Rock. |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 12:03
Well, you can do this to almost every metal band. For example, Metallica. Where is the metal on Unforgiven, Fade to Black, Mama Said, Hero of the Day, etc? And many people said art rock, just check the posts. |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 12:06
We know that Tool has its amount of prog, but to the mainstream like you or not they are associated with the nu-metal movement. |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 13:14
|
Yawn.. yes they are prog metal or art metal or whatever. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 13:40
Prog-Metal has NO boundaries. ------------- sig |
Posted By: xjester
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 14:26
Yes, but for all those we have: Parabola The Grudge Jambi AEnima Stinkfist Ticks and Leeches Triad and I didnt even touch Undertow or Opiate. |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 14:37
No boundaries? Good, let's add Bee Gees and Prog Metal then.  |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 14:56
Actually, from No Exit and before, I'd say they're heavier than Tool....though they did kind of tone down the heaviness after No Exit. Ironically, I think I hear Tool influences in their modern era either way ------------- 
|
Posted By: myplague
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 15:49
|
it seems a lot of people here seem to think that anything that is remotely heavy is metal, check http://metal-archives.com - http://metal-archives.com for what is really metal. btw saying fw is not metal because they are less heavy then tool is a joke, fw is metal because they were a power metal band that developed into progressive metal. listen to awaken the guardian - its a defining moment in metal history |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 16:39
| Well, it was not a surprise to me when I noticed that metal-archives doesn't list any nu-metal band... |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 16:42
They list darkwave/neofolk/neoclassical projects however. And Tool... Nu-Metal? Erm, what? ------------- sig |
Posted By: Chewy
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 19:43
I do absolutely agree...
heavy riffs does not make a band metal...
Tool dos have heavy riffing in many songs...that doesn't mean they play any kind of metal.
Opiate and Undertow can't more "obscure alt rock"...
TOOL is a rock band....with their own style...and sometimes they are heavy...because of the metal influences in Adam...
at least that's how I see them.
cheers
|
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 19:48
|
To be honest they sound nothing like the rest of the bands labelled 'prog metal'. -------------  
|
Posted By: Chewy
Date Posted: March 15 2007 at 20:13
absolutely........ to be prog metal you have to be a metal band first.....and then add some prog influences.
for example dream theater, symphony X, fates warning ..............
and TOOL............... nothing in common with metal...or too little.
pretty obvious to me they're a rock band.......a very inventive one
now..prog rock or whatever the hell you wanna call them.... another story.
|
Posted By: jamesrulz1
Date Posted: March 16 2007 at 02:14
| I think that tool did start off more metally when you hear their earlier stuff, but as you go along in their discography it gets weirder and weirder. It certainly is unique music, it's borderline, but i think we should let them slide as progressive. |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 16 2007 at 13:59
Erm, Deadsoul Tribe? ------------- sig |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: March 16 2007 at 14:01
Indukti too ------------- |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: March 16 2007 at 14:02
|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And Tool doesn't sound like those bands,THEY sound like Tool. ------------- |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: March 16 2007 at 14:05
I agree, I have yet to hear a band remotely similar to Tool. |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 16 2007 at 14:05
|
Yeah, that's how I'd put it too. But then again, does not sounding like any of the ancestors automatically exclude a band from the subgenre? For example, are In The Woods... not prog-metal for not mixing psychedelic and ambient with doomy riffs and tremolo picked ones? I mean, that was not quite the same thing Queensryche and Watchtower (or Atheist, or Dream Theater) did. ------------- sig |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: March 16 2007 at 14:18
|
Some bands try to sound like Tool. What a compliment to the band. ------------- 
|
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: March 16 2007 at 14:32
I actually jokingly refer to Deadsoul Tribe as "Jethro Tool" random side note: anyone have any idea when DST's new album is coming out this year? -------------
|
Posted By: Malve87
Date Posted: March 16 2007 at 18:01
Yes, I think so, too. They are Prog metal. ------------- ]
|
Posted By: King Zappa
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 17:25
|
Their are 2 Tools. There is early Tool which is definatly metal. From Lateralis on they become more prog. rock. ------------- Good, Better, Best. Never let it rest, Till your Good be Better and your Better, Best |
Posted By: myplague
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 00:41
| there is no metal in the albums before lateralis. both 10,000 days and lateralis feature some metal moments but still are far from metal |
Posted By: giantenemycrab
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 01:19
This whole "tool isn't prog" thing has been done to death..  You either like Tool, or you don't. Just because you can't feel the prog in their music, doesn't mean that it isn't there. Tool is progressive. Can't we just let it be? |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 03:54
 Whisper words of wisdom...  ------------- sig |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 05:22
INDUKTI AZILOA CRY OCEANSIZE(partially) 
|
Posted By: Daydreamyng
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 14:04
|
I guess I'm the only person on the planet that hates everything Tool. I don't consider them in any way prog or prog related. I don't even consider them a "good" metal band. They are too simplistic for me. I don't like them and never will. I understand that the description "prog" has so many sub-genres it makes the brain bleed thinking of catagories to place artists in. I'm sorry but I don't like these guys. Nothing. Nada. But I guess the other 99.99% of people here love them. I guess I'm just that one little spec who doesn't like what everyone else tells me I should like. And I don't like Budweiser either.  |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 14:27
NOW you're really in a trouble!!!
Feel free to express your point. A friend of mine hates TOOL too...but we still friends 
|
Posted By: TheProgMonster
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 14:52
Tool is not simplistic(their complex, but not overly technical ), and I for one don't need anyone telling me to like them, I'd like them even everyone on the planet hated them. |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 18:31
|
First people say Tool aren't prog metal and now they say they aren't metal at all? What's next? ------------- 
|
Posted By: Daydreamyng
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 19:55
|
Maybe I should clarify. I didn't say that they weren't metal. I just don't think they're a good metal band. I don't think they're progressive. My girlfriend listens to them. I just don't like them. There's stuff I like that most here wouldn't like. It's in the individual's taste I suppose. My opinion was to state that I don't think they should be considered prog metal. I mean I think Testament, Exodus, Slayer, Megadeth, Death, Savatage, Dream Theater, etc. are prog metal but with the exception of DT those bands never get mentioned here. In that regards I think Trivium should be a prog band. They are a lot better than Tool in my humble opinion. I guess what I'm saying is that I just don't get it. But 99.99 percent of the people here do. I'm just expressing my own personal point of view. |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 20:31
|
^^^^ I wasn't personally talking about you, Daydreamyng, and I respect your opinion about them. But for some, we have to separate the facts from opinions. Personally I see them as prog. Sure they don't sound like Dream Theater or Fates Warning like one member already mentioned, but that doesn't mean they aren't prog or prog metal. They may not be as flashy or as technical as DT, but they are still prog. They're just a tad different than the ones people normally consider prog metal. That's all. And as for people saying they aren't metal. How can the song Vicarious not be considered metal? I only have their Aenima and 10,000 Days album and both albums sound pretty metal to me. 10,000 Days was a bit of a surprise for me since I heard alot of sludge metal influences in their sound, but its still metal only a bit slower and more "atmospheric". And yes, Akin, Prog Metal HAS NO boundaries. -------------
|
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 00:07
|
Are there seriously arguments saying that tool isn't PROG METAL? Regardless to whether they don't sound anything like any other prog metal groups, they ARE prog metal. Do Van der Graaf Generator sound like any other art rock groups? NO! Genres are flexible.
And being prog metal doesn't have to do with being heavy, it has to do with having an overall metal sound, like tool does. They may have a song here and there that isn't all metal, but they still ARE prog metal. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 00:09
Slayer more prog metal than Tool? No way. The reason why people think that tool ISNT prog metal and they are ART ROCK instead may be because they push the boundaries of prog metal. Some people still claim that Pink Floyd "isn't prog rock." ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Daydreamyng
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 14:47
I agree with that statement. That's the beauty of Progressive music. It could just about be anything. I mean I think The Beatle's White album was progressive to this day but if you asked a high school kid what he thought he probably has never even heard of the Beatles. The way I see it is thank God for progressive music. If not for it we'd be shoved American Idol up our nether regions until blood shot from our eardrums. So I guess in the end I don't like Tool. Are they progressive?? Too many people say they are and who am I to argue with the masses. They're just not my cup of tea. But at least they're better than Country music. |
Posted By: dralan
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 17:48
| I never really thought of Tool as progressive per se; more of like a lumbering, depressing self-loathing form of hard rock. I really liked them when they first came out, but to my ears they just keep rehashing the same thud riffs and doom & gloom lyrics.. Its starting to sound really tired and uninspired. Thats not being progressive. I thought when the dude did Perfect Circle maybe he was onto something different but apparantly not. |
Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 17:59
Neither does THIS guy!  ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie
|
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 20:46
TRIVIUM????? Their first album was average metalcore, and the second album was a desperate re-hash of old Metallica songs. My guess here is that you're mistaking technical instrumental parts for progressive attitude. A lot of average metal bands can play fast and well, but Tool works to create albums in the true progressive spirit of groups like King Crimson. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Thobjorn
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 21:47
Only said projects made by members or ex members of bands that are metal. EDIT: Also, I am sure members of this site who enjoy metal agree that tool are not prog metal. They are prog hard rock, perhaps, but not prog-metal. When listening, one must consider context. If tool created aenima in 1978, they would be considered metal, but at that time Led Zeppelin were considered heavy metal. The definitions of Rock, and Metal have changed over the past thirty year's, and Tool have been caught in a sort of genre purgatory. The reason 10,000 days sounds 'metallic' is because they did a tour with meshuggah before recording the album. Otherwise, there really isnt any argument. Anger and screaming does not make one metal band. EG: Dragonforce. The guitar player doesn't even use all that much distortion, either. ------------- "Has it been noticed that in heaven all interesting men are missing? - Just a hint to the women as to where they can find their salvation." Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 06:34
i think i know what you mean, given their past association with Rage Against The Machine and the sound of Opiate but just because it happened doesn't mean it's valid.. anyway, i get your point... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 06:44
There is a good argument to be made that Tool, technically speaking, are not heavy metal.. which would mean that they are not prog metal either. Where does that leave us? Well if the Progmetal team ever decide to kick them out, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it... but don't hold your breath. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 08:58
Please don't hold your breath,because that will never happen. ------------- |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 13:12
I thought metal and heavy metal were two different things. 
|
Posted By: Daydreamyng
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 13:10
I always thought they were the same. I don't ever remember it being light metal and heavy metal. There could be an argument that there was hair metal and heavy metal. But it all had the same attitude. Just some of the guys wanted to be cross-dressers, wear makeup, suspenders and a bra. Now on the prog side I see there's so many sub-genres that it makes my head dizzy. Personally I don't like to "classify" music. If I like it I like it. If I don't then I don't. And I still hate Budweiser! |
Posted By: TheProgMonster
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 16:29
I think that is a better way say to you don't Tool. |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 10:37
Can Tool be considered a music band? |
Posted By: coleio
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 13:51
Oh dear lord... I love the way people use 'my opinion' to cover up and insure themselves against their own idiotic comments. With regards to those bands you mentioned, apart from DT and possibly Death, they're thrash and heavy metal, they follow simple song structre, keeping the time sigs nice and standard an basically rehash the same old stuff with every release. I don't care if the musical pieces are complex, I mean classical music's complex but it isn't prog. Oh, and Tool could play Trivium off the stage to be quite frank. ------------- Eat heartily at breakfast, for tonight, we dine in Hell!! |
Posted By: Thobjorn
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 16:39
While tool are a million times better than trivium, and I endorse nothing said by the poster you replied to, I think its naive to assume that musical ability means technical ability. I am sure trivium could play way more complex stuff than tool, they just haven't listened to The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, and Discipline enough times to be able to "think" it up yet. ------------- "Has it been noticed that in heaven all interesting men are missing? - Just a hint to the women as to where they can find their salvation." Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: moebius
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 18:47
The term "metal" is a short verson of the term "heavy metal", wich cames from the song "Born to be Wild" by Steppenwolf ("I like smoke and lightning, heavy metal thunder, racin' with the wind...")
And so, they are the same thing.
|
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 20:15
|
Tool is not a band I love. I've only heard their '10,000 days' album
and it was not exactly love at first sight. Not that I disliked it - I
just don't love them. But yes, they could definatley be Art Rock, not Prog Metal. I can see them as both, really. |
Posted By: coleio
Date Posted: March 31 2007 at 12:47
I can't see just because Trivium play pretty fast, melodic guitar pieces that they're better than Tool, and could outplay them. I find Tool's music very cleverly put together, and if they wanted to insert melody and speed then they could do so with ease. Fortunately, this would compromise the brilliant style of their music so they probably won't be doing it any time in the near future, which is a jolly good thing to be quite honest. The last thing we need is more generic, mundane metalcore thankyou very much. ------------- Eat heartily at breakfast, for tonight, we dine in Hell!! |
Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: March 31 2007 at 14:10
I recommend you Lateralus. It's definitely a MUCH better starting point if you wanna get into Tool, in my opinion at least. Ænima is also better than 10,000 days(once again, in my opinion). ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie
|
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: April 12 2007 at 19:00
Thanks for that tip. By the way, is 10,000 a concept album about drugs, or am I just crazy? |
Posted By: prolificprogger
Date Posted: April 12 2007 at 19:47
Haha no. 10,000 days is the number of days Maynard's (lead vocalist/lyricist) mother was paralyzed before dieing.
|