Prog metal in the States
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Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35458
Printed Date: February 06 2025 at 11:19
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Topic: Prog metal in the States
Posted By: Xalita
Subject: Prog metal in the States
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 16:50
| One of the things that intrigues me most is why isn't prog metal very popular in the United States. More strange it becomes when we know that the Big Three, DT Fates and Symphony are all from there. It makes me think a lot |
Replies:
Posted By: tdbark
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 17:33
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Why? Because the US is still on it's HipHop/corporate pop phase. You have to be lucky to hear anything adventurous or even good on the radio or the few video shows left on MTV. Until we see a taking back of the airwaves by true music lovers, you won't see Prog Metal or any other complex/interesting genre make in-roads to the American consciousness. ------------- Twenty men crossing a bridge into a village, are twenty men crossing twenty bridges into twenty villages. Wallace Stevens |
Posted By: NotSoKoolAid
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 17:46
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Dream Theater and Opeth are quite popular here in the states, though they receive very little television/radio time. Two groups obviously here and labelled prog-metal. Porcupine Tree is also throwing itself at The United States... maybe someday. Also founders of prog-metal were almost all famous and largely listened to at one time. Even in the States. |
Posted By: Xalita
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 18:45
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=11026&FID=3 - tdbark it's the same here in europe, that gangsta hip hop is getting in here also, and all the so called rock bands only make 3 or 4m songs to get airplay, but what really disturbes me is that even in specialized tv shows like headbangers ball they rearely put prog metal or avant metal
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Posted By: Prometheus
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 19:05
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in my opinion...the lack of prog here is the states is because the generation of MTV and pop music happened (past tense there boys...) and it drove music lovers down because MTV, and the genre it represents, is largely a social phenomena: it became popular(probably because it was simply considered popular) and marketable, and so it exploded. please do not blame this all on record execs, scum though some may be, because it never could have occurred if people (primarily youth) hadn't latched onto it in the first place (thats just plain economics...). this, i think, created a backlash of artists and listeners with taste...they don't want to be associated with MTV any more than MTV wants them; for MTV its pure economics, for the artists/listener its an economics of social and intellectual qualities. with prog and other meaningful musical types, already with small followings due to inaccessible stylings, going underground, the newer generations could'nt access it, certainly not enough to appreciate it. enter the internet...those very same groups that were underground are now all over the internet (eh-hem...) and so prog and meaningful music are making a come-back, i think. i think it simply doesnt show because most people get it though internet sources, usually illegally at that. just look at iTunes, though, they carry tons of prog artists...i was just looking up Estradasphere, a small name even among prog circles, there the other day. but then, Prog is only a small portion of the music getting out from under the heel of the mass ignorance...honestly i think Indie is going to rise up. indeed, if you are a member of last.fm you'll see the term plastered everywhere as a synonym for "good" (Radiohead is labelled indie, i think the Beatles are too...) and thats just just the sort of community i mean. the fact that prog addicts are going to have to get used to is that we will always be a small portion of the population (no i wasn;t alive in the 70's..but i think the fact that PF's The Wall is more famous than "wish you were here", an album most people dont listen to, settles it. PF is now a widely accepted band in most every circle and people still wont listen to thier most progressive works...). Prog/avant music will always represent a smaller portion of the industry because it appeals to a smaller portion of the population as a whole: the portion that is looking for something new and vital. if you look at music today (and i only know the american scene) there is probably a tripartite division between R+B/rap, Emo/Rock, and more Indie/simple-acoustic-driven styles. the point of all of these categories (to make a mass generalization) is to live vicariously. R+B is so you don't have to think, you can imagine yourself as a sex object and you can simply move (listen to the lyrics....the mere fact that those are acceptable is indication enough. but if not, feel the beat..thats the entirety of the song, and all you can do is move). Rap is all about boasting -being someone your not- and to identify with a larger group -to rise up above yourself. Emo/new punk is all about vicarious experience/reminding yourself of your own experience of being a teenager and the freeness of it (notice lyrical content that is not only expressly that, but also simply lacking in substance =it doesnt matter). Hardcore bands, a small percentage of the market, are a vicarious trip into loosing one's anger, or giving oneself reason for anger (even my beloved Meshuggah falls into this category, but i am thinking more of bands like Cannibal Corpse, Aborted, and other gore-metal and thrash acts). finally Indie and the rising tide of 'john mayer' types all simply say that 'everything is ok, life is great! dont worry!!' his latter trend, i fell, is better as it at least consists(more indie now and less jahn mayer) more in an intellectual emotional category and thus, most people that listen too it sort of glide right into some prog acts :the Beatles, Radiohead, Explosions in the Sky. Prog, i feel, doesnt have any of these categories in the same way as any other genre (and prog is an abstract category anyhow) and thus can only appeal to a different crowd. the crowd that doesnt listen to music for purely social means (how many of us are wearing headphones right now? and certainly you cant dance to it). it seems to me that most of us here listen to prog because of it individual meaning to us, and likewise, most prog artists tackle huge, philosophical topics. but again...EVERYTHING i just said is a massive generalization so there are exceptions to everything...thats just how it seems to me. and besides..its not fair to say that the US has no prog...Death metal started in Florida i believe...the swedes have simply perfected it. i think thats appropriate anyhow...the US has never been much for art accept in wierd, chaotic ones. take a course in US art history and you'll learn about abstract expressionism, pop-art and post-modernism...much less so about the Hudson river valley school of impressionism. furthering that idea..the US is also home to alot of avant-garde acts; Kayo Dot, Maudlin of the Well, fantomas, mr. bungle, mike patton, John Zorn (i think...?) Estradasphere, etc. ok..i wrote too much...oh well ------------- "Tell me why world, unfathomable and good, The beauty of everything is infinite and cruel." --Kayo Dot |
Posted By: darksideof
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 19:35
well said buddy !!! But I might subject a subjection of maybe things might a Little bit to this mess. Start teaching other about prog.Expose prog music in you car .Buy big speaker and blast the music through your apartment 's window like in the hood like the rappers lovers do it. AT too home. And the most important to all do not be close minded and do not be too judge mental of today American music. You might win some new converts. I Have a 11 years old daughter and even thought she is into today music ,when she is with me I Always listen to metal, prog and jazz.. She likes and is learning to appreciate these kind of music. she even likes some of them. ------------- http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/ http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/ https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/ |
Posted By: tdbark
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 20:01
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Well said, Prometheus, but I don't quite agree with the point about R + B. What they call R + B today is really mislabelled. R + B used to be rhythm and blues and had a large group of great musicians who wrote and sang the music, Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder being just some examples. It is only just recently that Hip Hop has co-opted the R + B label. The stuff being released today as R + B pales in comparison to the music of the 50's through the first part of the 80's. ------------- Twenty men crossing a bridge into a village, are twenty men crossing twenty bridges into twenty villages. Wallace Stevens |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 20:04
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*agrees heartily with above, stevie wonder owns* |
Posted By: Prometheus
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 20:09
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very true tdbark (and Deathrabbit)...i had just used the first genre name that popped into mind, but it is misused today, for sure. replace R+B with hip-hop and the message may become more accurate.
------------- "Tell me why world, unfathomable and good, The beauty of everything is infinite and cruel." --Kayo Dot |
Posted By: Drakk
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 20:32
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While I don't see much Prog Metal becoming popular here, I thought one band would have been brought up... Tool is fairly popular, and I'd say they're prog metal. :D------------- [QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss] I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde! Al di Meola. [/QUOTE] haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde [/QUOTE] |
Posted By: polyrythmic
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 21:33
| What about Tool, their huge in the States? |
Posted By: Drakk
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 21:57
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Not pop level huge, but I hear them quite often on the radio in my home town.
That's more than any other prog metal bands. I think I heard a Dream Theater song on a 'Metal Icons' program once, but other than that... ------------- [QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss] I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde! Al di Meola. [/QUOTE] haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde [/QUOTE] |
Posted By: Jon89
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 22:40
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DT? ------------- jon 89 |
Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 23:50
I'd go so far as to label Stevie 70's output as Prog R'n'B!
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Deathrabbit wrote:Posted By: DarioIndjic
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 23:56
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I don't like to hear prog on radio,i want it to be only mine hahah ------------- Ars longa , vita brevis |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 00:18
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Because metal isn't an especially popular genre, and Dream Theater et al are viewed as hopelessly nerdy. Most metalheads you know are almost certainly losers/nerds.
Many metal fans like prog metal (although they don't label it as such), but everyone else is repulsed by the loudness, degree of chaos, and general stupidity of the majority of the metal they are exposed to.
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Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 06:12
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maybe that's not totally true... i mean, we're talking about portion here.. and the US music market is by far a lot bigger than any other european market so a 5% of the US market is bigger than a 15% than the eg greek market.. so, maybe, things aren't as bad as we think in the US... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: Drakk
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 11:47
Then I must be a nerd/loser, as I like metal.  ------------- [QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss] I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde! Al di Meola. [/QUOTE] haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde [/QUOTE] |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 12:49
Definitely, they're probably the only modern prog band I've heard on the radio (granted, I don't listen to the radio often). They're definitely popular, I've seen several people at my college with Tool shirts, including my brother and my friend. |
Posted By: CaptainWafflos
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 14:39
| I've met a good number of prog metal fans but never any '70s prog fans in my age group. |
Posted By: Drakk
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 14:52
You mean in person, right? I"m sure there are plenty on this site.  ------------- [QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss] I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde! Al di Meola. [/QUOTE] haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde [/QUOTE] |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 15:03
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Prog metal is MUCH more popular than symphonic or avant prog. Look at how many people listen to Tool, Dream Theater, and Opeth in the United States. In fact, I would go as far to say that most people know a Tool song since they do get radio play on local stations. Most people know Dream Theater too.
No one knows the Flower Kings, Spock's Beard, few know Porcupine Tree (comparing the prog metal bands since it is a new genre with newer symph prog bands.) Even people that are really into music hardly know these non prog metal groups. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Drakk
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 15:05
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I was actually suprised to lean that Godspeed You! Black Emperor is quite popular here, at least among certain crowds.
Still, I doubt any bands, classic or new in the Symph, Art Rock or avantgarde will garner much attention amongst the younger generation, sadly. ------------- [QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss] I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde! Al di Meola. [/QUOTE] haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde [/QUOTE] |
Posted By: Yontar
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:05
i would say musically we are ahead of many other countries in the musical cycle. I think the rebirth of prog into the american household will be in about 10 years. Right now people just want simple music but as the world advances in technology things will becom more complex, like peoples taste in music. Pop and Rap will eventually die, just give it time.
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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:08
Eh, personally I can't see any signs of pretension, I think there will just be a small cult following of all things prog in the underground. I mean, can you seriously imagine the people who prefer pop and hip hop for the ways of lifestyle those two "cultures" promote spinning Gentle Giant and getting dizzy or totally digging VdGG? ------------- sig |
Posted By: Drakk
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:12
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Oh man, if VdGG was played on public radio around here, that would be beyond awesome. ------------- [QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss] I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde! Al di Meola. [/QUOTE] haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde [/QUOTE] |
Posted By: r-u-n
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:18
Lateralus and 10000 days debuted at no.1 on the Billboard charts, right? So that tells how popular they are in the States. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 16:26
this is wildly optimistic pop can't die because when a fad dissipates something else steps up to be popular. also technology increases at the same rate as our reliance upon it, and serves to make things more convenient, not complex. ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Daydreamyng
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 15:05
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I live in one of the 10 largest towns in America. I once tried to request a Dream Theater song on the radio. I was told they MIGHT be able to play Pull Me Under but refused to play my request....on a 2-hour long metal show. The internet keeps prog alive in the States. I am so envious of the European countries that have "Progfests" every couple of months or so. I think America has 1 a year....if we're lucky. America is still ruled by the same 6 CEO's sitting at their desks deciding what's best for us to listen to. What they don't realize is the majority of Americans don't like what we're spoon fed in terms of music. If I want a Pink Floyd CD I have to special order it. Gosh my hometown has 1 million people...and I have to special order a Pink Floyd CD??? Arrghh. |
Posted By: pogoowner
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 20:20
Most people know Dream Theater? I don't think I've met more than 5 people outside of something such as a DT concert that have heard of them. ------------- And it might as well be raining, 'cause the sunlight hurts his eyes, And his ears will never hear the children's cries |
Posted By: Unix
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 21:31
I've met like 3 or 4 people who know who they are. Tool is a lot more popular and actually does get air time on the "hard rock" station here (It's actually horrible and plays sh*t like Green day) but I've never head DT on the radio. There is a Classic rock station here though and they play quite a lot of Prog rock ------------- |
Posted By: asimplemistake
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 02:05
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sadly, the closest to prog I've heard here is Muse (althou i do like them, its just sad). Maybe they do play a little more, but I'm used to avoiding the radio unless its all i hav and it can receive the classical station. My friends and I have played stuff like newer Porcupine Tree and Tool for friends and a lot of people actually like some of it. We got some people that had never heard of prog to want to see PT live with us. I find that cool. Another funny thing is that I heard of PT through my dentist, and he and I have a lot of conversations about Dream Theater and PT and stuff like Zappa and what not. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 02:47
Yesterday I watched an episode of Criminal Minds ... and what do I hear? Opeth! It was really cool ... and it matched the scene totally (Death Whispered a Lullaby ... a woman getting home from work and trying to sleep, and the vocals going "Sleep my child" ...).
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to: 
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