Rush v. Van der Graaf Generator
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35251
Printed Date: March 10 2025 at 16:15
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Topic: Rush v. Van der Graaf Generator
Posted By: video vertigo
Subject: Rush v. Van der Graaf Generator
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 15:47
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Two of my most listened to bands, which do you prefer? ------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Replies:
Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 15:49
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Rush, and I'm slowly getting into VDGG. ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 15:53
| I slightly prefer Rush. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 15:55
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VdGG. They made a lot of great, emotional, original music. VdGG / Hammill live is also a good experience.
Rush is the only one of the prog dinosaurs which started in the '70's, that I never really understood
 . I like Moving Pictures, but never learned to appreciate other Rush albums. |
Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 15:57
I suggest 'A Farewell to Kings' 'Hemispheres' '2112' and even 'Caress of Steel'... Ever heard those ? ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Moogtron III wrote:Posted By: Modrigue
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:00
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I'm more into Rush I enjoyed Godbluff, Aerosol Grey Machine and Pawn hearts from VDGG, but not much their other albums...
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqf2srRfppHAslEmHBn8QP6d_eoanh0eW" rel="nofollow - My compositions |
Posted By: glass house
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:03
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GG versus VDGG was an easy enough choice for me, this isn't............
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Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:06
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VDGG, no doubt! ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:10
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Ugh!!!!!!!!!! I can't decide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is torture!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually not quite. Rather easy choice. I'll go for VdGG for sheer power in those songs off of H to He and Pawn Hearts (the only ones I own right now - am working on getting more though), Rush doesn't even come close. No matter how much I like Rush I cannot vote for them over VdGG. |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:11
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Love Rush - almost all till GuP inclusive - good band but it's nowhere near the greatness of VdGG. ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:13
| I only own one VdGG album, so I won't vote, but I still think Rush will win out for me, even as I experience more VdGG. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:13
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Rush
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:21
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Tough one, but I got to go with the Generator!
-------------   |
Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:24
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VdGG ------------- Beauty will save the world. 
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Posted By: lightbulb_son
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:24
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Hard for me to vote. I grew up with Rush, so naturally I gravitate towards them, but I'm still trying to get into VDGG, so I can't vote yet. ------------- When the world is sick Can't no one be well But I dreamt we were all beautiful and strong 
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Posted By: martinn
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:26
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Right now its VdGG for me..
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:49
I did hear Hemispheres and didn't get into it yet. I'll keep trying, though, because Moving Pictures did grow on me through the years. Thanks for the recommendations.
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:52
VDGG. Rush is a very nice band too, but I'm not sure if I'd rate any of their albums 5 stars.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 16:59
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Not vow and if want to know because... see my Prog bio!!!
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Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 17:03
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Rush by miles! I like VDGG, but they're instrumental skills pale in the shadow of Peter Hammill's fantastic writing. They didn't have a bass player for much of their career, and much of the time I think they are just great melodies over the most basic organ-drum-sax chords. I prefer Rush, who are much better musicians, and their songwriting is great as well. They have a much for full sound to them, sounding more massive as a 3 piece at their normal points as VDGG sounds at full blast. ------------- 
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Posted By: ProgFan
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 17:18
The same for me too. I prefer Rush above VDGG
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Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 17:18
| I only own a few songs by VDGG, so I wont let myself vote, but I do like what I have and I LOVE rush |
Posted By: proggy
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 17:39
| Rush. Not Even Close.......VDGG is Highly Overrated.......... |
Posted By: Sasquamo
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 19:31
| Rush's music is just so much more interesting. |
Posted By: aspinosa
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 19:53
| Both have similarites. it is very difficult to withstand both vocalists due their high pith voices, they get in my nerves. In the requisite of originality I go with VDGG, I think Rush is a mix of Zeppelin with Yes and the most overrated in this site (sorry). |
Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 19:55
Are you feeling okay? Have you smoked anything unusual today? Are you intoxicated? How's your body temperature? Have you been suffering from any hallucinations lately? Are there any traces of blood in your urine? Do you feel any sort of pain anywhere in your body? just checking  ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 19:57
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I really wish I could understand what all of the fuss is about VDGG, but, I simply don't see it. Believe me, I wish I could.
E ------------- 
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 20:05
I was also quite startled to see Progismylife pick ANYBODY over Rush. ------------- |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 20:10
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hahahha.. the world has frickin ended.. Ben doesn't vote for Rush. and Micky does. VDGG ...owner of the biggest bunch of slop (Pawn Hearts) ever annoited to classic status. Other albums good to OK.. Rush for Micky  Far more interesting.. and fun ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 20:14
| Huh, what do i prefer, air or water? Gotta go with Rush, but it's so clsoe it's not fuuny |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 20:21
Am I the only one who senses a Markosherrara poll here? ------------- |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 20:42
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VDDG! Great music. Rush is over rated to me. They've had some great albums, but they are very inconsistant. Not to mention.... Hammil > Lee |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 21:01
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VDGG can kick some canadians asses...ups...sorry Canada
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: martinn
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 21:04
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Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 21:38
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First heard Rush when I was 14 and Hemispheres had just been released. First heard VDGG in 2006.
I vote VDGG!!!!
Rush lost me after Moving Pictures
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Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: March 08 2007 at 22:59
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Rush = a nice piece of pizza VdGG = A TOTAL SLICE OF HEAVEN!  ------------- 
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Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 01:01
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I like VDGG more but they really are completely unrelated. I don't think they sound remotely like each other. No real reason for comparison. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 02:09
they're both top rated art rock bands. other than that nothing, but I love both. ------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: Bt-Tor
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 02:32
| Though Pawn Hearts is one of my favorite albums, and I enjoy most of VDGG's other material, I must say Rush has managed to generate much more output while also remaining fairly consistent in quality. Rush for me. |
Posted By: Chipiron
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 05:36
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Rush for me. I really like their albums until Exit... Stage left. Later... that's another story.
I don't like VDGG much. They kind of depress me, although I admit they are great musicians. ------------- [IMG]http://www.belderrain.es/GIFs/tora.gif"> |
Posted By: Christine
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 08:41
Amen to that! ------------- catsfootironclaw |
Posted By: Malve87
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 09:02
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Van Der Graaf Generator. ------------- ] 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 09:05
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Rush. They are one of my favourite bands.
VDGG.....are ok, but only ok. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 09:51
| Van der Graaf Generator. I like Rush a lot, but not as much as VdGG. |
Posted By: Mlaen
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 10:19
| VDGG for me. |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 13:32
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Rush is a very good band without a shadow of doubt, but their music is rather conventional for a prog. rock band.They are not really a match for the ones like Yes, KC, Genesis,
Gentle Giant.
Van der Graaf Generator is a truly unique, visionary, daring and boundary pushing band, with incredible emotional intensity and truly great lyrics. They easily get my vote, they are one of the real icons of prog.
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Posted By: seamus
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 14:27
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VDGG |
Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 14:32
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VdGG ------------- 
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 15:01
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I don't get the comparison. VdGG is a British group that came up in the late 60's and belongs with the classic grouping of King Crimson, Genesis, and Yes (at least in a regional, time-frame sort of way). Rush came much later and are Canadian. So, I can see comparing Rush to FM, and VdGG to Genesis, but not Rush to VdGG.
Except that you like the music of both, so that makes it fair game!
VdGG is far more exploratory and cutting edge. They're just on a different level than Rush (Rush are more 'high school' in my eyes, whereas VdGG is grad school... I mean, do you think a snobby magazine like The Wire is ever going to do an 8-pager on Rush? [Hammill/VdGG has a nice feature in the recent issue]). On the other hand, for exactly those reasons, Rush outsells VdGG probably by about 500 to 1... ------------- jc |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 15:25
I suppose they both make a lot of noise, so that's some comparison
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 15:33
Yeah, fair enough :-) ------------- jc |
Posted By: Nash
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 15:35
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Van der graaf generator, no doubt about it, its a spectacular band, farely better than Rush in every aspect ------------- http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/sydbarrettg.jpg/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Prince_Rupert
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 18:05
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Lifeson: first and fifth, first and fifth, over and over and over. . . kind of boring. Fun to listen to sometimes, but it doesn't inspire me. Definitely Generator. I loooove those droogs.
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Posted By: chessman
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 18:24
Rush are one of my top five bands. 'Nuff said! 
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 19:23
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I prefer Rush, but VDGG is also amazing. On the whole, though, I think they are less consistant than Rush.
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Posted By: enteredwinter
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 20:02
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Rush. I respect VDGG, but I just never want to listen to their music. On the other hand, I could listen to the 2112 -> Permanent Waves series of albums all day happily. ------------- 
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Posted By: Minimalist777
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 21:14
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VDGG, Rush is a great band, dont get me wrong but I feel that they sometimes succumb to juvenille hard rock cliches makng VDGG better imo.
On a random side note, what are those album covers in your signatue Man-Erg? ------------- WWOSD? What Would OliverStoned Do? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 21:28
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I'm still trying to get into VDGG. I have Pawn Hearts, World Record, H to He Who Am the Only One, & the Least We Can Do Is Wave to Each Other. I've listened to them about 2-3 times each, & take no offense, but so far I seem to recall some melodic & compositional repetition among the songs. So I've yet to see what all the fuss is about. Rush, on the other hand, I love. I saw one posts saying they are/were more conventional than VDGG. Strange, when Rush first hit big (75 - 78), I don't remember too many other bands playing this sort of more complex heavy music, with lyrics that strayed far from your "blooze" & "boogie" stereotypes in your average hard rock band. So for me, Rush Rush Rush. Their first 8 studio albums were a seminal part of the emergence of Prog Metal in the late 80s. |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 21:31
You'll find melodic and compositional repetition in 99% of all the bands in the whole world and in all genres. And in Ruch, off course, band wich is ok, but not even vaguely close to the artistry level of Van der Graaf Generator. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 09 2007 at 21:47
And how do we determine "artistry level" ? Has VDGG ever appeared in a Trailer Park Boys' episode ? Has Peter Hamill ever showed an American cop what's what ? Have any musician subsects (in this case drummers, er, percussionists) gone apes**t over a VDGG musician such as the Peartians ( I love his drumming too, but he's one of many among the best, not necessarily THE best) ? I say NAY! My horse says NEIGH, but now I have to go away, as my Sleigh is all revved up & ready to go (dashing thru the snow, to the beer store we go ho ho ho) Does anyone remember me comparing Hammill's vocals to early period Rob Halford (Judas Priest) ? Except for Rob's screeches ... |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: March 10 2007 at 02:45
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VdGG is one of my if not my favorite band prog or not, rush is ok i gues but i dno i never liked em very much got 3 albums 2112, farwells to kings & moving pictures nothing special IMO. ------------- 
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: March 10 2007 at 03:22
Just the other way round for me. Rush are highly overrated. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: March 10 2007 at 03:32
To answer your question: The left album is "Mainstream" by Quiet Sun, the right one is "Nuclear Nightclub" by Wigwam. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Baube3
Date Posted: March 10 2007 at 11:58
I was asking myself the same question ...
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Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: March 10 2007 at 12:37
...And Peter Hamill is a better guitar player?  -------------
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Posted By: febus
Date Posted: March 10 2007 at 12:50
Both overrated especialyy VDGG, but in a way VDGG is not as they never made it big  anyway on the big stage, even prog stage!!
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 10 2007 at 13:05
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Cant vote. Rush are the better musicians, and are one of my all time top bands, but these days I listen to far more VDGG.
It's hard to explain, but Rush were my introduction to prog. They are like an old friend. I feel like I know them because they meant so much to me in my youth, and I have an undying respect for them. These days the VDGG formula just appeals to me more..for now.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: March 10 2007 at 13:23
| RUSH!!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: Minimalist777
Date Posted: March 10 2007 at 14:10
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Thanks Friede, I feel I should investigate the bands now on the basis of their album covers alone! ------------- WWOSD? What Would OliverStoned Do? |
Posted By: Prince_Rupert
Date Posted: March 10 2007 at 18:51
HAHA, I'm not saying he's better. I just think the composition as a whole is more versatile and less typical.
In Rush the guitar is so present, and it always sounds like a lot of chords (mostly "bar" chords) taken directly out of a begining music theory book. I just don't get it.
I like 2112 and some others. But there has never been any rush music that really blew my mind. VDGG does.
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Posted By: King Zappa
Date Posted: March 10 2007 at 19:07
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I love Rush so this was prety easy. I don't realy get VDGG, though I am trying to let them grow on me. ------------- Good, Better, Best. Never let it rest, Till your Good be Better and your Better, Best |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 11 2007 at 00:06
Again, what is this "bar" chord you mention. Is this a clue that you should probably read a beginning music theory book ?  Or that you are just a "beginning music theory" kinda of guy ? Answer - Barre chord. And Lifeson plays third, Peart is the pitcher, with Geddy at first. First & Fifth is an over simplification. Please take that second guitar lesson soon |
Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: March 11 2007 at 09:29
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Strictly speaking, I don't have too much rights to compare these two groups. I don't own any Rush album and hever heard any Rush album in its entirety. I only heard the current set of samples presented here in PA and the previous one. That's all.
However, I can say that these sample tracks made an impression on me. It expresses in the fact that I have no wishes to explore the music of Rush more (for the moment, at least).
That said, I think this group has absolutely no chances against Van der Graaf Generator for me, since Van der Graaf Generator is my favourite group.
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Posted By: Spacemac
Date Posted: March 11 2007 at 18:03
| Rush |
Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: March 11 2007 at 18:07
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VdGG is more innovative and interesting. Also, their songs are varied. Most Rush songs sound the same. Who cares if Rush has better musicians? I want better music.
I like Rush, but VdGG wins this by a long shot. ------------- 
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Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: March 11 2007 at 18:12
| VDGG |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: March 11 2007 at 18:29
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Van der Graaf Generator. As Friede says, Rush are overrated. Only two of their albums appear to full-on prog too. VdGG have never made a bad album. I don't know Rush well enough, but from what I've heard, I just don't like them. Geddy's voice is too much for me and even compositionally, they seem bland. And who says VdGG aren't as great musicians? Jaxon's sax playing is amazing, Banton's playing is subtle and not at all bombastic, Evans' drumming is also subtle and exceptionally played and as for Hammill, it's not just his lyrics and vocals. Listen to him play piano and try and tell me he cannot play it well! His guitar playing isn't fantastic, true, but then again, it's unique and he's greatly improved in that field since his early days. He's not bad on the acoustic either. -------------   
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 11 2007 at 22:26
Er, um, aaaahhh, I hate to throw popular acclaim in people's faces, but VDGG are not in the same league as Rush . You may want to visit a prog lounge thread that discusses such lofty concepts as to whether Rush are & were or weren't always prog. Hammill's lyrics are oft mentioned as being "deep". Please extend a courtesy & listen to to some of the "poppier" Rush albums of the 80s (which I am not a fan of, but read on for the point). The lyrical depth is still there, & while the words may be more direct, it should not for lack of obscurantist tendencies that they be considered simplistic. I presently have 4 VDGG albums. So far, after 2-3 listens each, I am still getting into them. I haven't picked up anything special, & for some reason, some melodic & compositional ideas seem to "pop" on more than one album (World Record, Pawn Hearts, H to he, Godbluff). But as they're highly thought of amongst this PA community, I'm still giving them a listen, who knows, I might be missing something. Y'all give me that same impression when you say that the samples or songs you've heard from Rush sound the same or uninteresting. May I ask if this is based on a few tunes, given that Rush has a 35 year career to cover, almost matching VDGG. So, you may want to give different albums/periods before making a blanket assessment. Then to keep it simple, give your opinion - like or no like. But using terms such as "overrated" may lead one to conclude that you have "objective" proof that others, who may outnumber your pack, might find to better fit your hero(s).  |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: March 11 2007 at 22:38
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I am sure my friend BaldFriede has heard her fair share of Rush and I am also sure she's very objective when it comes to saying they're "overrated". As for me, I've heard just the two albums (A Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres) and even the instrumental La Villa Strangiato (which isn't that bad), didn't do much for me. I do not like Geddy's voice, but I'm not going to use that as an argument. I'm not denying they're great musicians (I didn't say they weren't and neither did I say the members' of VdGG are better, so do read my post properly before saying your piece), who can make good music (I'd rather listen to Rush than E.L.P. and late-era Genesis). I'm also not denying that Peart's lyrics are horrible. I'm just saying that I don't especially care for their music and that they're overrated musically, not talent-wise. And yes, VdGG do have some pop tendencies, I'm not denying that. Most prog albums of the '70s had some pop-leanings. However, VdGG were unique. Hammill's vocal style and his lyrics were completely different (and still are), to anyone else. I can accept they're not to everyone's liking, that's fine. I just believe they have more musical talent than Rush. It's not all about soloing and silly high voices. -------------
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Posted By: pero
Date Posted: March 12 2007 at 03:38
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: March 12 2007 at 07:24
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James (Gecko) makes some great points. For all the people saying that Rush are better musicians, I just don't see it. Certainly, Rush are more "flashy" and are more into long solos. But how do you make the comparison, especially when the Rush lineup comprises a drummer, gtrst, bassist, and the VdGG lineup comprises an organist who plays bass pedals, a saxophonist, a singer who *occasionally* plays guitar, and a drummer? Truly, Hugh Banton is one of the finest musicians in prog or any other genre. John Anthony, an A list producer who worked with Genesis, Queen, Roxy Music, The Tubes, and VdGG, said that HB was the finest organist, with depth of creativity and feeling, in Great Britain if not the world. If you're looking for Dream Theater-like flash, then yeah... you ain't going to "get" Banton. But when you stop to consider the brilliant stuff he's playing on the keyboards and then realize he's playing these killer bass lines *with his feet* at the same time, they you'll realize what John Anthony was on about.David Jackson is the only sax player who sounds like David Jackson. Because VdGG didn't have a proper guitarist, he developed a style that went far beyond the soloing sax player. The guy plays two saxes at once effortlessly and sounds like a whole sax section. And the lines he comes up wIth are phenomenal... sometimes they're joyous, other times they're like something out of a nightmare. I've jammed with Jaxon before (I'm in a Chicago blues band that played a gig in Swindon - DJ came out for that). We were playing funk and slow blue tunes with him. No matter what we threw out there, Jaxon was right in the pocket improvising these monstrously brilliant double-sax parts - he brought the whole house down, standing ovation.
And Guy Evans? Well, granted, he has a much smaller kit than Neil Pert (thankfully), but he's more of a Phil Collins-esque drummer (Guy and Phil were great friends and admirers of each other's talent). Guy's genius is in the way that he can play in a rock style like nobody's business, yet with this smooth jazz-like groove underlying it all. Excellent.
So, I just don't see the 'Rush are better musicians' statement. Maybe on the surface if you're looking for flash, but as far as intelligent, creative, non-linear approaches to musicianship, you're hard-pressed to beat VdGG.
Rush fans should check out these clips to see some vintage prog. A bit before Rush's time, these clips, but a great view of prog's early years.
Darkness ('70)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDmhP6YiN6s - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDmhP6YiN6s
Lost ('72)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbcZIzpanaw - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbcZIzpanaw ------------- jc |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 12 2007 at 15:52
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it should also be noted that Hugh Banton published a solo album on which he played the Goldberg variations on organ. some of the variations (11, 17, 20, 23, 26, for example) are VERY difficult to play (as I, being a keyboard player myself, know from experience), but Banton's performance on the organ (the Goldberg variations were originally composed for harpsichord) is very convincing
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: March 12 2007 at 17:51
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As huge a Rush fan as I am I'm surprised that Rush hasn't been totally blown away. I mean I listen to Rush constantly and think they are really good at their instruments but when compared to VdGG they get blown away. I mean come on! Look (as other people have pointed out) at Jaxon adn Hugh Banton! Brilliant musicians! Rush has good musicians but not "really amazing let me sit here in total awe of these guys" musicians. I can't wait to see VdGG in concert! |
Posted By: seamus
Date Posted: March 12 2007 at 18:35
(IMO)Rush are overrated ,so i vote for VDGG!
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Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: March 12 2007 at 19:20
toss up! a tie between the "stratch your nails on the chalkboard" vocalists. depends if you want adolescent fairy-tales or endless morbid raving? can we add frank sinatra to the choices?
KILL THE RADIO!
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: March 12 2007 at 19:32
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Bryan, have you heard much VdGG or Hammill solo? I can say for sure the lyrics are not as morbid as you believe. Of course they have their moments, but most of Hammill's lyrics are tongue-in-cheek in many ways. The really serious lyrics are on his solo album Over. Since when has 20 votes difference been a tie?  -------------
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 12 2007 at 21:44
Good choice of words - "I believe". Who knows, maybe I'll be helping out VDGG's side in future threads  Not against Rush , though As per Pye We're just musicians, here to thin the thickness of your skin .... |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: March 12 2007 at 22:10
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The reason Bowie and Halford sound like then, is probably because they're influenced by him. Hammill also happens to be influenced by Bowie too. Fish from Marillion is also influenced by his vocals. At the time VdGG were starting, those types of vocals were vibrant and new in the rock world. And in my opinion, Hammill's vocals are better than Bowie's, Halford's and Fish's. Hammill's voice is very difficult to mimic. Of course, so is Geddy Lee's. VdGG do occasionally solo, especially on their earlier albums, but the time of Godbluff, they were a far tighter band and played much more as a band than ever before. They read each other perfectly. I actually prefer the fact they don't solo too much. As for Banton's keyboard style, well I much prefer it to the bombast of Lord or Emerson. As Friede said, he also used bass pedals, which not many people do. He also makes his own organs, which is also very unique. I don't know which tunes or albums you've heard, but you should try as many as you can, there are 3 distinct eras for them, all of which sound slightly different. Hammill's solo albums are completely different again. They're far more diverse musically than Rush. One of my favourite bands is Gov't Mule, now they're a JamBand, they have a lot of solos and they're a tight outfit, but I still can say that VdGG are better musicians in terms of composition, but Warren Haynes, the guitarist of Gov't Mule is a far better guitarist and can play in many different styles. -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 00:14
Adolescent fairy tales. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 01:33
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I wonder where some people see the "pop" tendencies in VdGG . I'd like to have an example for that, because I fail to see them
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 01:42
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Me too. Although I did say I heard a bit of pop, when I said that, I meant that their albums aren't off the wall and weird, they're quite listenable as albums, even if you're not a prog fan. That doesn't make them pop, obviously. I guess he meant anything that has a tune and is memorable afterwards, is poppy. Not so, of course. Even some avant-jazz have memorable bits in them. -------------
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 03:38
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one of the main features of VdGG is that "enjoyable" passages and "weird" passages interchange in their songs. take for example "Man-Erg". that song might, except for the lyrics, be a "pop" tune, if a ballad automatically is "pop" for you (which in my opinion is nonsense), but then right in the middle there is an all out freak assault on the ears that is anything but pop. their contemporaries Genesis were a lot more poppy, but I certainly would not say early Genesis had pop tendencies. so saying VdGG have "pop" tendencies is far off the mark, in my opinion
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 03:47
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Oh I agree, Jean. VdGG aren't pop at all, never have, never will be. Genesis, Grobschnitt, Yes and even Gentle Giant were much poppier than VdGG and that's why I have issues with those bands.. A lot of Hammill's solo songs may be borderline (especially that one he performs on YouTube ) though.Refugees is a ballad and it doesn't contain a freak-out section, but I still don't class it as pop music and neither does it really have pop elements. Hammill was influenced by a lot of pop music from the '50s though, apparently. -------------
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 08:54
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about Bowie and Hammill: it is Bowie who was influenced by Hammill and not the other way round. Bowie is a great fan of Hammill, by the way, and was at the RFH reunion gig (as were Jon Lydon, Bruce Dickinson and Fish, to name but a few)
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 13:26
Sorry about the vocalist comparison, I meant it more to say that I really don't find Hammill's vocals that "hard to take", in that other relatively known singers had similar voices & still managed to "eke" out a career .The albums I've currently got from VDGG are Pawn Hearts, World Record, & The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other. One thing that struck me as I was listening to Wave yesterday was the similarity (not an exact copy or rip off) of Refugees to Procol Harum's Whiter Shade Of Pale. But then, it's not a rare occurrence in Prog to hear influences or melodies taken from the world of classical music. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 14:26
Good ear! A reviewer of the time thought the same thing.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 21:10
Whew, I thought for sure I was going to feel the red hot fires of hell in response to that one. For you Rush fans, check out Caress of Steel & discern the Genesis influence. There is a part that may recall Watcher of the Skies. Turnabout is fair play. And in talking of similarities between different groups, I wonder if any of you ever notices anything that Genesis or Yes might have picked up from Gentle Giant. Someone told me that early in their careers, both opened for GG, then as we all know, went to mass U.S. success that eluded GG (undesservingly so) |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: March 13 2007 at 21:15
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You can't compare Rush and VdGG based on their musician's technical skill (not like extreme technicality is essential anyway). Different instruments being played in very different styles, totally pointless to try and draw comparisons and say which band has "better" playing. I prefer VdGG as a musical whole, but like both for very different reasons. -------------
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Posted By: pero
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 04:25
I'm not so shure about that.
I like them both, but I cant see any Hammils infuence in any phase of Bowies work.
My fav Bowie albums are: Man who sold the world, Alladin sane and Berlin trilogy (Heroes, Low, Lodger)
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 14 2007 at 07:48
Bowie himself said so in an interview once, so I guess we have to accept it as true ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |