ipod v. ZEN
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Tech Talk
Forum Description: Discuss musical instruments, equipment, hi-fi, speakers, vinyl, gadgets,etc.
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34927
Printed Date: November 25 2024 at 07:43
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: ipod v. ZEN
Posted By: pianoman
Subject: ipod v. ZEN
Date Posted: February 28 2007 at 20:31
Personally, I cant stand ipods, because of so many sob stories of friends breaking them all the time such as: "I cant turn it off" "The touch pad dosnt work" and "the buttons dont work." I have had a ZEN sleek (20G) for two years, and it still works fine.
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: February 28 2007 at 21:06
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I've had my iPod for almost as long, and have had only minor glitches. Those are few, and just happened recently. I use it constantly as well. Have your friends been dropping theirs? ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: February 28 2007 at 21:11
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My Zen completely broke and was in other scenes very inconvient. I find the iPod to be much better quality and sound, with a better design as well -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: February 28 2007 at 21:11
Good ole CD player>>>>>>>bothx10000
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: February 28 2007 at 21:52
Too bulky.  ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
The Miracle wrote:Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: February 28 2007 at 21:53
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I've had both, and I like the iPod much better. The quality is so much better, and it's so much easier to use. ------------- 
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: February 28 2007 at 22:14
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I'm an iPod guy myself. My Video 60 gig has worked well so far, for about 2 years now, with only one glitch that took about 10 minutes to fix. -------------   |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: February 28 2007 at 22:54
| I like my iPod, but it needs to be repaired, something is wrong with it (it stalls when I try to play a song, and now when I turn it on a picture of an iPod with a frown shows up and says it needs to be repaired). By the way, if anyone knows how much repairs might cost, please tell me! |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: February 28 2007 at 23:52
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I had a 40Gig iPod for about a year and a half, though I should really say that I had 3 iPods for a year and a half because the damn thing broke twice in that amount of time. The harddrive died finally when it was out of warranty, so I bought a Zen V plus and I love it.
------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 02:54
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iPods suck because they can only be used with iTunes (or mp3s). I have a Zen, and I use the Napster To-Go flatrate ... which means that for 15€/month I can listen to more than 2 million tracks. I wonder how much I would have to pay on iTunes to get 30-50 albums each month ...  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 04:53
| I've got a little Samsung MP3 player and it's excellent. Never had a problem with it and it plays most formats. Who needs an iPod? |
Posted By: Paradox
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 05:06
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Although I do not own a Zen, I have used a friends. I found it a little difficult to use, and very bulky in comparison to the iPod. I own a 20GB iPod that has been broken for many years and I can't upload any more music to it. Despite this I really like iPods, and it is my intention to invest in an 80GB one when I have the money to do so.
Does anyone know if there are any MP3 players out there with a hard drive which exceeds 300GB?? I'd like to know! ------------- 
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 08:07
| I've never seen an MP3 player with that much space, but I dont see the point anyway. You'd have to have a backup of that lot somewhere, unless you're going to risk losing it all. My MP3 player is 2Gb and can easily fit a couple of weeks worth of listening. I just put the stuff I feel like listening to onto it at the start of the week. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 08:49
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My Zen has 6GB ... and it usually contains 50+ albums encoded in 192kbps WMA (Napster) or ~240kbps mp3 (my own stuff and eMusic.com). Usually I simply review the list of albums from time to time, remove stuff I have listened to and add albums that I recently bought, or would like to listen to again. I don't see the point of carrying with you your entire collection ... it would be kind of cool, but also a bit nerdy.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 11:44
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It's funny, but you would think 20GB would be more than enough. I still have a hard time when reloading music. I go to delete things, and I hesitate. I use my ipod all of the time, and I like having a lot of options. I can't predict what I will be in the mood to listen to when I get out of work, or when I am traveling. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 11:48
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^ then maybe you should try to be more decisive! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 12:43
So true, so true.
It's still good to have options. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 14:24
Seconded! ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Paradox
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 15:01
It's the same for me. Call me nerdy by all means but I like the idea of having my entire collection with me at all times so when the mood takes me to listen to something, I will be able to. It's annoying when you think of something but find you don't have it at the time. I keep all of my music backed up on an external hard drive, so losing it from my MP3 player wouldn't be too much of a problem...But what if something quite terrible happens to my HDD? Don't want to think about it.  -------------
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Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 16:42
I prefer my trusty MuVo 2! too bad they stopped making 'em, I prefer their easy, highly customizable way of storing music to any of the new, fancy stuff  ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 16:48
I have a gigabeat s60 works with Windows Media, and plays lots of video files. the only bad thing is the crappy battery life. about 4-6 hours. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 17:58
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I have a Creative Zen 20gb and I love it. I will never buy an IPod. I have listened to my mates and I believe my Creative sounds better, though I did upgrade the phones to Sennheisers. |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 18:50
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I use a 2GB iPod Nano (the original version), and I'm not disappointed
with it at all. I have never had any troubles with it, I have dropped
it several times (not on purpose, of course, but by accident) and it
has continued working splendidly. It got a dent in the back from one of
the falls, but that hasn't affected it in any way. I do know of many
people who have experienced troubles with their iPods, but the ones
they have are older versions. However, I have no experience with Creative players, so I won't claim that the iPods are superior to them. I have heard many good things about them, and I have been tempted to try them. The reason I haven't (aside from the fact that my iPod is still working perfectly) is their looks. Lookswise I don't really like the Creative players at all, some of them look okay but some look awful in my opinion. It might seem superficial to you, but I wouldn't want to buy one even if they are ten times as reliable as an iPod, even if one gets much more player for the price. But I'm confident that I won't have to replace my iPod quite yet anyway, and by the time I have to, Creative players might look better. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 18:54
Yes, I guess an Ipod beats my Creative for looks:
  but then again you pay extra for those gorgeous designs, and it is a music player that you keep in a pocket, after all...
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: March 01 2007 at 20:21
If I want to be more decisive, I, not my portable music player, will be the one to decide that. ------------- |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: March 02 2007 at 02:07
Indeed, the Ipod is said to be the best MP3 player in term of sound quality. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 02 2007 at 02:19
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I think when it comes to sound quality all the modern mp3 players are quite similar ... the headphones affect the quality much more. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: March 02 2007 at 09:13
Creative Zen - Sleek Photo 20g - approx 5,000 songs (WMA), approx 2.500 songs (MP3)
Sound quality; V.Good; Well, that depends on the original file quality but I use a pair of Creative's in ear earphones, (£25 approx') in black so as not to hopefully arouse a mugger's interest. 
The only fault that I have had in the year that I have owned it is that it sometimes 'freezes'. Nothing that a pin pushed up the little hole won't fix! The Creative software upgrades are very good too. The only other downside is that a lot of mp3 players still don't play Flac files. But, then again, if you want it in Flac so badly, save up and buy the cd....and let 'em eat cake. ------------- 
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: March 02 2007 at 10:17
That's what I thought. Surely, since the music is digital, all players should play the files pretty much the same, but the quality of the sound heard is dependent on the quality of the headphones/speakers used.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 02 2007 at 10:34
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I have a 512 Mb MP3 player, and its fine for me. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:38
iPod users can convert their FLAC files to Apple Lossless files (ALAC I think it's called). I convert to 256 kbps mp3 though for use with my iPod, if I was to have everything in lossless I wouldn't be able to carry more than two or three albums around in my pocket. Of course I still keep my FLAC files on the computer. |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: March 03 2007 at 20:50
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FLAC is WAYYYYY too bulky for me. I use it primarily to trade bootlegs electronically (most traders will not accept lossy sources), then convert to 128 kb/s mp3's for listening. I find that a 128 sounds the same to me as a lossless source, so I don't bother taking up any more space than that. ------------- |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 04 2007 at 02:11
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^ so your portable player can play FLAC files? Nice! But if you can't hear a difference to 128kbps you probably need much better headphones.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: March 04 2007 at 15:55
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No, I use an iPod, so I am forced to convert. I would do it anyway, though. My headphones are quite nice, Etymotic Research 6i Isolaters. Top-of-the-line in-ear headphones. And I STILL don't hear lossyness. I guess that's good for me, though; more music in less space!
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Posted By: Kid-A
Date Posted: March 04 2007 at 16:45
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I prefer the Sony.. had a zen like TOny's for two years but the headphone connection failed :( ------------- 
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Posted By: Paradox
Date Posted: March 04 2007 at 19:04
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To be quite honest I don't like listening to music with headphones. They make my ears hurt and/or give me a headache. I plan to only use MP3 players for use in my car (when I've invested in a new iPod, stereo and speakers for my automobile). All very expensive but I spend a lot of time in my car so it's worth it I feel.
I just hope nothing like this happens...
 in advance-------------
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Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: March 04 2007 at 19:08
Lucky, my old Creative looked like a brick, and it weighed about as much as one, too. -------------
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 20:19
Believe it or not, I cant even fill up a 4 gig nano. I had a 30 gb video ipod but never even came close to using all the space so when some men of low moral fiber made off with it and my car stereo, I just replaced it with a nano. Maybe I'm just too picky about what I listen to. |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 20:24
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Haha, I just checked and I have over 47 gigs, and that's just my mp3's. I also have gigs upon gigs of archived FLAC bootlegs. It's best to keep lossless, just in case. Just in case of what, though, is beyond me. ------------- |
Posted By: Unix
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 20:29
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I have an 80 GB Ipod. I love it because I've got many many albums in ALAC format on it, and the sound quality on them is amazing. right now I have about 2800 songs equalling around 20-21 GB (because of the file size that comes with the lossless albums) and It's just great. I also have about 7 GB of video files. I dunno if I'll ever completely fill it up, but I'm gonna try my best to
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 22:26
| My ears aren't really good enough to determine the difference between lossless and an mp3 @ 160 kbps or above. As long as its sampled at 44100Hz. Gotta have that Nyquist rate, because my hearing range does go pretty high which is a bizarre combination, I guess. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 02:32
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^ it depends on the music too. There are complex audio signals which are hard to compress, and simple signals which are easy to compress. Basically the more is going on in the music the more difficult it is to reduce the information without any audible change. Here are some albums which are very difficult to compress ... try any of them (Lossless/CD vs. 160kbps mp3) and you'll most definitely hear a difference. I picked those because I rip the CDs using variable bitrates, which means that the encoder chooses higher bitrates for complex signals and lower bitrates for simpler signals, and those albums were the ones with the highest resulting bitrates. Anata - Under a Stone with No Inscription Into Eternity - The Scattering of Ashes Disillusion - Back to Times of Splendor Devin Townsend - Synchestra Converge - You Fail Me ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 09:34
I doubt I'd still be able to hear a difference. I had some bad ear nfections as a child, that scarred my ear drum and damaged my auditory nerves,;I even have to look up lyrics to most songs before I can understand what they are saying.
 I suppose by complexity of the signal, you are mainly referring to production stuff? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 10:15
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^ no. The complexity of a signal is essentially determined by how many frequencies are active simultaneously ... the least complex signal is silence (obviously), the second least complex signal is one perfect sine wave (one frequency). All other signals can be thought as a combination of different sine waves layered on top of each other. The more independent waves there are, the more difficult it is to remove information without affecting the quality. mp3 uses some tricks - some parts of the signal cannot be heard anyway for various reasons and can be left out without any problems. But when the desired bitrate is too low, the algorithm also removes parts which are audible ... particularly in high frequency sounds. Cymbals are a good benchmark. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 14:38
Yeah, that makes sense. I haven't been able to tell a difference so far, but just to be sure I'll bump it up to 224Kbps, just in case I ever come accross something that it might make a significant difference on. I don't trust VBRs on account of I've heard ITunes does a craptastic job of making them. Coincidentally, I actually have a friend who refuses to listen to anything but wavefiles. He can't fit too much on his music player.
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Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 02:29
I would also add The Human Equation, sounds terrible but acceptable. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 03:22
^ simply use variable bitrates, and it will sound *much* better, at equal file size.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 07:08
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Creative have too long a history of making crap soundcards for me to give them a chance (Ok, that's probably more my failing than theirs these days..!) and iPods are just overpriced for what they do. I've not seen anything to rival Cowon, although iRiver and Archos aren't bad. And Neuros, if you don't mind something a bit bulky.
All that said, I might end up working for a subsidiary of Creative next year so 
Re bitrates/lossless compression, another interesting point is that noisier recordings are much harder to compress - that's not surprising from a technical point of view because of Fourier Transform and all that malarky, but it's counterintuitive because many people expect to be able to use low bitrates on poor quality originals, wheras it's actually probably likely to make more of a difference than on a quality modern recording... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 07:40
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"white noise" is the most complex signal ... a completely random mix of waveforms. Highly distorted signals come close ... that's why Industrial/Death Metal/Grindcore etc. are among the most difficult to compress signals. On the other hand classical music is really simplistic by comparison of the waveforms.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 17:20
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The simplest wave form are the most pleasing to the ear aren't they? OF course here at PA we are concerned with what's pleasing to the mind as well.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 18:06
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^ distortion can sound quite pleasing too ... it can be harmonic (as in good tube amps) or completely awful (clipping transistors). ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Paradox
Date Posted: March 31 2007 at 11:17
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is 320kbps CD quality? -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 31 2007 at 13:23
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^ no. It gets very close for most signals and even on good amps, but true CD quality can only be achieved with lossless formats. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Paradox
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 07:59
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How do you go about creating a lossless file? -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 10:12
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That depends on which software you use for ripping CDs. in CDex you can choose FLAC, in iTunes you can choose Apple Lossless, in the Windows Media Player you can choose Windows Audio Lossless.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Unix
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 23:08
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Do be warned though, a 20 minute song in lossless quality is roughly 125 - 140 MB in size
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Posted By: Paradox
Date Posted: April 03 2007 at 16:47
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Thanks guys! Thats a hefty size...All of my music is ripped in 320, so I think i'll keep it at that for now. I rip all of my cds to an external hdd, and it took me far too long to do that, so in no hurry to do it all over again!-------------
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 07:47
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MY Creative Zen Jukebox wont play WMA Lossless....
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 08:08
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^ My Zen Micro doesn't support any lossless format either ... so I keep ripping my CDs in mp3. Maybe I'll re-rip to lossless in a couple of years, when there are affordable mobile players with 200GB.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 10:44
| Everything I have works with everything I have. Apple, Apple, Apple..... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 10:48
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^ so you don't have music subscriptions ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 18:20
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I have a no-name mp3 player I bought from Scan for £5.
It plays mp3, wma and wav - and sounds good enough.
It reads SD cards - so there is no maximum limit, I just take a couple of 4Gb cards around with me, and that's enough music for a week, at least...
Why buy the name? ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: CalamityDaemon
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 01:01
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I'll tell you this much: The iPod, though ever-popular, has enough space to accommodate for my increasing collection of music that I simply cannot do without. It also allows me to (a) work out with it (b) carry on competitions for sports due to its nice size (c) accesorize more widely due to its popularity. The one killer for iPod is what kills most hard drives. It dies. The battery dies in about three years or so and costs $60 to be repaired by the factory, though I do mine myself for about $15. The customer service sucks and don't get me started on the finicky behavior of that red headed stepchild called iTunes. The Zen, my brother has, and it gets caught up a lot in its processes and is more bulky and unwieldy. It IS lighter however because it is more of a cartridge than a hard drive. It DOESN'T use iTunes but it lacks the accessories that iPod has. So really it depends on what you're willing to sacrifice I suppose. I love my iPod, but iTunes in itself makes me want to throw the thing in the garbage. ------------- I wake to Sleep and I take my Waking slow, I feel my fate in what I cannot fear, I learn by going where I have to go. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 05:34
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^Easier to buy a 500Gb hardrive for your PC (around £60-70 currently), store as much music as you like on it, then transfer organised lists onto SD cards that you can store in your wallet. Installing an SD card reader into your PC is simple - or you can get an external one that connects via USB as a drive - then you just drag and drop your media onto it.
If it's in your PC, and you have SATA, you can create an array of drives, so that your data is safe in the event that one dies. I think it's much better to have a centralised store and draw from that than store everything in a place that could easily get lost, stolen or damaged.
Just my take... ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 06:31
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^ Currently I'm only using 2-3 GB on my 6 GB player ... 30-40 albums, encoded in very high quality. It only takes a few seconds to transfer an album to the player ... so all I have to do is to update the player every couple of days. I connect it to the PC and remove all albums which I have listened to ... and then I decide which albums I should listen to next and transfer them. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Unix
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 04:06
I have been having problems with my iPod as of late... It some times freezes up, or lags for several seconds. Like I'll press pause and 15 seconds later the song pasues  Of course, my 300 GB external HD being broken, which holds all of my music on my computer, is proving to be quite a hassle, as I can't update my iPod without the fear of Itunes being stupid and deleting the songs I do have on my iPod...
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 15:25
| Now Apple seems to be ditching DRM I might consider buying one...if I dont have to use the iTunes software to transfer... |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 15:31
You can buy a decent plug and play external hard drive for the fraction of the cost of replacing a large hard drive IPOD.
Cert mentioned Scan earlier:
I bought one of these for about £80 from Scan (every so often they discount stuff as a Today Only special offer) and its excellent. I ahve two ATMT and can highly recommend their products.
http://www.scan.co.uk/todayonly/ - Scan consistently sell PC stuff far cheaper on average than anyone else. They are also based in Bolton,which is the ultimate recommendation.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 04 2007 at 18:33
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ithink iPlods are a iPile of iPooh.
My 40Gb has been sent back to the customer service department in Amsterdamn three times. Apple don't repair and return your iPlod back to you - what this means is that my broken one was sent to Amsterdam and someone elses refurbished one was returned to me. So in reality I have had four different iPlods, three of which have broken-down with different faults. My daughter's iPlod mini suffered a similar fate.
And iTunes is iRubbish and the third party replacements are equally as bad. Why did Apple feel the need to re-invent a disc management system when both Mac OS and Windows have tried and tested one built-in.
 iHubris.  iPah!
------------- What? |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: June 04 2007 at 19:35
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iSecond that
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 05 2007 at 03:08
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iThird ... (never had an iPod, but love my ZEN)!
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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