Illegal Downloading
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34334
Printed Date: February 03 2025 at 13:48
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Illegal Downloading
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Illegal Downloading
Date Posted: February 12 2007 at 22:14
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I'm just curious as to the extent in our PA prog community of illegal downloading. Especially after the thread about streaming that explained that if you can stream it, you can download. This along with some members seemingly humongous amount of groups they have reviewed, recommended , or generally seem to be able to discuss in a knowledgeable way. I know in some cases, collections have been amassed over decades, so I don't mean to say that a massive number of albums necessarily means they were obtained illegally. Let's face it, some of the older stuff isn't found everywhere, & imagining the ability to pay a hundred dollars/euros, whatever for any album, especially for one they may never have heard before seems a bit far-fetched to me. In case, the RIAA is listening in, a caveat, use the O.J. approach to book writing; i.e. if I did it, this would be why; but I don't do it & don't condone it etc ...
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Replies:
Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: February 12 2007 at 22:16
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This is a fine thread and all, but I'm not going to answer because I fear that the second Jody takes a peek at this it will be closed. I mean, this site does get kinda strict about talking about illegal downloads.
Remeber that Pink Floyd bootleg thread?
hehe ------------- Beauty will save the world. 
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Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: February 12 2007 at 23:54
this poll is gonna get "it" I think panta , they are sensitive about this issue 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 02:04
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In my opinion it is NEVER acceptable (if you need my reasons they are on my RYM profile). I have never and will never do it. My entire collection is made up of legitimately bought CDs, amassed since around 1990. I have been lucky enough to have had a well paid job during that time and averaged, over that time, around 230 CDs a year. I can see how anyone who was unemployed ot poorly paid might be sorely tempted to transgress into buying illegally. I can honestly say that if I hadn't been so fortunate, job wise, that I still would not have done it - purely on moral grounds.
There is NO excuse to download on the basis that the album is out of print. You can absolutely guarantee that at some time in the future it will be. It may take some years but there will be a release.
As for doing it because "it's free". Well you're a bloody thief and I'd like to see all people who steal in this way prosecuted!
I can see no valid reason why this post should be "pulled". After all, you're only scoping out the situation - not attempting to legitimise illegal downloading.
Is that you intention? |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 02:14
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Illegal downloading is never acceptable. If you want an album that's out of print look for a secondhand copy, if you're on a limited budget look at amazon you can often get albums for under £5 on there. As an aside I've only downloaded 3 albums all of which were completely legal and having to back them up on CD and print off a cover was a lot of hassle. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 02:20
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I used to do that a couple of years ago - but not anymore. I think it's not acceptable - and seeing people talk about albums that will be released in a couple of months really makes me angry. Time to come clean, guys! Try waiting until something is released although you have the means to listen to weeks earlier ... you *will* feel better once you quit stealing. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to: 
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 02:56
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I'll let the thread run meanwhile, as long as there is no discussion about illegal download sites.
Please bear in mind though that illegal downloading is just that, illegal. It is theft in the same way as walking into a record shop and stealing a CD you think is overpriced is theft.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 04:04
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Thinking you are entitled to "free" music is somewhat similar to all those t**ts who thought festivals should be free in the 70's. Those same people that ruined the Isle Of Wight fetival!
Musicians have to make a living too. And if they don't..............what will we listen to?
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 04:18
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FOR ME IT'S NEVER acceptable. The reasons are those that they say all those who work in the music World and do not accept this modus operandi. ------------- 
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 04:23
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option #6. teh innanet is the world's greatest promotional tool
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 04:49
I think the choice in this poll was "if it's free", not "because it's free". Of course I'm all for free downloads - but it must be the artists and their record labels who decide whether something can be downloaded for free or not. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Glueman wrote:Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 04:57
Agreed things like The Egyptian Kings debut and the extra track PT released from the Warszawa session. Are great for fans and act as a very good promotional tool. But the choice has to lie with the band and their label. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 05:24
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Glueman: can honestly say that if I hadn't been so fortunate, job wise, that I
still would not have done it - purely on moral grounds. This
is very naive. Let's say you didn't live in UK, but in some of the
poorer eastern european countries instead. You write that you know
you've been lucky. Well, you (and I) are lucky with what countries
we're born into, as well. Morals are easier when you can afford it.
You're judging everyone less fortunate than you, and calling them
bloody thiefs. There is NO excuse to download on the basis that the album is out of print. You can absolutely guarantee that at some time in the future it will be. It may take some years but there will be a release. If the album is out of print, and and say 50 to 1000 copies exist (its like this with 1000's of gems), I think its just fantastic if some blogger puts out a vinylrip. This is the first step towards a possible re-release. If you bought an overprized rarity like that second hand, the artist wouldn't benefit from the sale anyway. But I'm defenatly not interested in discussing this here. Everything is all black or white for too many of you. Easy Livin': It is theft in the same way as walking into a record shop and stealing a CD you think is overpriced is theft. Stealing a physical object for sale, is obviously different.  ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 05:32
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^ there is no difference between physical objects and digital downloads - stealing the objects is the same as downloading (or acquiring the files by other means) without paying. The fact that when downloading something you're not actually taking away something changes nothing.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 05:40
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^ Yawn... it changes something. Just like home taping is not the same as going into a shop and simply take an album from the shelf. BTW: I voted for the first option. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 05:42
If you read the title - you will find it says "Illegal downloads" and then the question "would you consider it acceptable if ?" and the option being "it's free". Thats pretty unambiguous. That option did not encompass legal downloads from bands sites! Quite clear!
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 05:50
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Oh how very understanding you are! A thief is a thief is a thief. Circumstances do NOT or will NEVER excuse a crime. That's like saying it's ok to steal because you were born in a slum in a third world country. Well it's NOT. And besides we are talking about what is essentially a luxury. No-one needs to buy music - it's not a life or death need, like food, if you cannot afford it, like all other things, you should do without until such time as you are able to. And stealing online it is just the same as physically puloining something. You do not take ownership until money has been exchanged.
And you might as well lose that logo about home taping - you are a hypocrite. It's not home taping that harms music and musicians - it's illegal downloading.
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 05:51
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well put, Rocktopus, there's a difference between stealing something from someone else and merely making a copy. of course I can see why it's illegal but laws turn into guidelines when you think about them enough ;P
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Uroboros
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 05:54
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Thank you for an intelligent post , Rocktopus. I was about to give an answer based on the same arguments, but I'm glad I don't have to.
I will refrain from saying anything than stating a mere fact: in Romania a cd costs about 1/7 of the average monthly income of an adult person, meaning that someone could afford to buy seven cd's every month and then starve to death while listening to them. Furthermore, 99.9% of the albums listed on PA are not available in Romanian stores, and Amazon doesn't make deliveries there (or at least it didn't about three years ago, maybe they do it now). Draw your own conclusions.
------------- Tous les chemins qui s’ouvrent à moi ne mènent à rien si tu n’es plus là |
Posted By: CrazyDiamond
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 05:57
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ehm..where is the option "illegal download is always acceptable" ? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This^^^^^^^^^^^^ ( look up ) is a joke ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think it's great as long as it doesn't become a business (if it isn't a gain of money). ------------- 
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 05:58
Nice. Like I said, everything's all black or white for some of you, no shades of grey. That makes disscussion impossible. Buying music is a luxury alright, and you deserve it because you've been lucky!? ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: CrazyDiamond
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 06:00
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^ Rocktopus -------------
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 06:00
I agree ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 13 2007 at 06:11
I'm afraid this thread is going to turn ugly very soon, as I can see words such "thief" and "hypocrite" bandied about a bit too easily. I can understand the reasons of both parties, but there is no excuse for exchanging hard words such as those. Therefore, I think the best idea is to close the thread at least for the time being. |