Report errors & omissions here - Harmonium

Harmonium - Symphonic prog?

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Topic: Harmonium - Symphonic prog?

Posted By: OGTL
Subject: Harmonium - Symphonic prog?
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 16:59

I am just confused as to why Harmonium is included in the Symphonic section of the site. The first two are almost absolutely Folk, and En Tournee and Heptade are more symphonic yes, but the band's roots are in folk, and i think that it belongs in the Folk genre.. if anything Jethro Tull should be in Symphonic and switch places with Harmonium.. like 4 of their albums are folk.

Replies:

Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 17:04

I agree with you here. En Tournée is as symphonic as Harmonium gets but they always have been rooted in folk.

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RIP in bossa nova heaven.

Posted By: OGTL
Date Posted: February 05 2007 at 22:27

Any chance we could get a poll going and settle this? not sure what the masses think.

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 05 2007 at 23:48

OGTL wrote:

I am just confused as to why Harmonium is included in the Symphonic section of the site. The first two are almost absolutely Folk, and En Tournee and Heptade are more symphonic yes, but the band's roots are in folk, and i think that it belongs in the Folk genre.. if anything Jethro Tull should be in Symphonic and switch places with Harmonium.. like 4 of their albums are folk.

Hi OGTL Welcome to the forum.

Being that you are a new member I will tell you that we have a Symphonic team that I'm honoured to lead, we made a house cleaning because almost 33% of the bands assigned to Symphonic originaly were not Symphonic at all, and 147 have been moved to other sub-genres.

Since none of the actual members of the Symphonic Team except me, was member of it when we had the Seventh Session (The session in which the bands that started with the letter H were checked): http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24377&KW=Symphonic - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24377&KW=Symphonic I will have to explain his particular case.

The guidelines of Prog Archives clearly state that for the inclusion of a band in a determined sub-genre and despite we mention all their discography, we must only base the location of the band in the 100% Prog albums, the others don't count, are only mention for a coherence purpose.

That's the reason why Genesis is in Symphonic and not Prog Related despite they released at least 5 POP albums (FGTTR, ABACAB, We Can't Dance, Shapes and Invisible Touch, CAS is a hybrid), we only considered the releases from Trespass to Wind & Wuthering or maybe even ATTW3 and Duke and we mention the later plus FGTTR but this last ones are ignored for the location of the band.

So being all Genesis Prog albums in the Symphonic sub-genre, then the band went to Symphonic, the same with Yes with Big Generator plus 90125 and many more bands.

Harmonium is a very particular case:

Harmonium (1974): Is not a Prog album it's a Folkloric album almost exclusively, we couldn't find significant Prog elements, so according to the guidelines of Prog Archives, we must mention it in he discography but must not consider it for the sub-genre in which the band is going to be included.
Si On Avait Besoin D'une 5ième Saison: This one is a 100% Prog album, but combines Folk Prog elements with a clear Symphonic structure and influences from the first King Crimson era and Genesis. At this point, we could go for either of both sub-genres, so we have to wait for the next album.
L'Heptade: Despite a few Folk and Jazzy elements, L'Heptade is a 90% Symphonic album, so the balance turned in favour of Symphonic.
Harmonium En Tournée: Jazzier than the previous despite Symphonic essentialy, but being a Live album is neither too trascendental for the inclusion of the band in a genre.

If you check the history of the band, well, it's closer to Symphonic if we don't count the debut album which must be ignored according to the guidelines received when we started our work with Symphonic. Even if we count it, we have three mainly Prog Symphonic albums and one Folk (Not Prog Folk) album.

I't's also important to consider that Harmonium was added to Symphonic by one of the owners of the site Prog Lucky, who is an expert in French Canadian bands being from that country, so his opinion is valuable.

We also crossed our opinions with other reliable Prog sites like:

GEPR:

Canadian symphonic band, sounds very early- http://www.gepr.net/ga.html#GENESIS - Genesis influenced, might also elicit comparisons to Ange, and the ethereal feel of Pulsar. French vocals. L'Heptade is a good place to start, if you can find it.

GEPR clearly describes them as Symphonic and Genesis influenced.

Proggnosis:

COUNTRY

GENRE-subgenre-style

ARTIST (#Listed)
(click to view Artist page)

Canada

Prog - Symphonic - Other/General

javascript:onclick=GOArtistInfo%28137%29 -

http://www.progressiveears.com/asp/artistdir.asp?country=Canada"> Canada

Harmonium
http://www.progressiveears.com/asp/artistdir.asp?genre=1"> Symphonic-Prog

http://www.progressiveears.com/asp/artistdir.asp?genre=8192"> Art-Rock

http://www.progressiveears.com/asp/artistdir.asp?genre=16384"> Progressive-Folk

A Quebec-based group, from the 70''s
http://www.progressiveears.com/forums/members/profile.asp?peopleid=642 - def

Progressive Ears describes Symphonic (SYM) as the main genre.

Again everything points towards SYMPHONIC, but still and despite I believe it's correctly included in Symphonic I will talk again with Sean Trane who is in charge of the Prog Folk Team, but my vote is for them to stay.

I trust our team's work because we are very careful when doing it, but we can make mistakes being humans, in this case I believe we went further than reasonable to verify this good band.

The poll is out of question, this an issue that corresponds to the teams and this will be our decision in coordination with the other teams involved.

Thanks for your thread, it gives us the chance to explain our procedures and shows interest.

Iván

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Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 01:00

Beautiful response Ivan. I've been wondering about this myself and you explained much more than seemingly necessary, now I understand the logic of the label symphonic.
Looks like you specialists have put a lot of work into this site

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"The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 01:40

Thanks Video Vertigo, it's always a pleasure to explain the decisions we took, because it may seem obvious to us that been working on this bands (Even when after checking so many it's hard to remember all) but it may not be clear to other members who have a different and most surely valid opinion.

So I feel is our duty as team members not only to make a change or leave a band in a determined sub-genre, but explain to the members our reasons.

If in any moment we find that we messed in something and a member gives us a valid reason to change our options, we gladly will do it, because we love Prog and want Prog Archives to be the most reliable site in the net despite we have to accept our mistakes.

Iván.

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Posted By: OGTL
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 22:05

I've actually been visiting the forums and the site for a couple of years, just made a new review account recently.

Thanks for the detailed response. Clears things up alot. I still don't agree and think they should be in folk, but your post has a few legitimate points towards their stay in the symphonic division.

Sean Trane is my idol (I'm getting into more french folk bands, MANIEGE, CONVENTUM etc) so it will be nice to hear what he thinks.