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Audiophiles on a desert island.

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Tech Talk
Forum Description: Discuss musical instruments, equipment, hi-fi, speakers, vinyl, gadgets,etc.
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33728
Printed Date: November 22 2024 at 06:55
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Topic: Audiophiles on a desert island.
Posted By: Flyingsod
Subject: Audiophiles on a desert island.
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 22:12
 This question is patterned after the 'what 20 albums,movies,books would you want if you were marooned on a desert island' questions. So if you were stuck on an island and could only have ONE piece of high end equipment and the rest had to come from normal consumer stores like walmart what would that ONE piece be. I'm assuming it would be the amplifier but Im no audiophile so maybe I'm missing something.




Replies:
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 22:55
I don't need ANY high end equipment. the best equipment is inside your brain. give me a lousy mono tape recorder, and I will be happy

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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 23:10
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I don't need ANY high end equipment. the best equipment is inside your brain. give me a lousy mono tape recorder, and I will be happy
 
ClapClapClap
 
I won't go so far as a mono tape (Even when in an emergency it's ok), but the real difference of sounds between decent equipments (Unless you're a proffesional in recording) is so subtle that 99% of the people who boast about their fabulous equipments are unable to listen an improvement so great that justifies the expense.
 
If I'm in a desert island, the last thing I would care is about what specific piece of equipment I need.
 
I have a modest LG DVD and Home Theater in the living room and it's more than enough for me, in my room I own a good Sony all in one with a Room Theater (Nothing special) and it's perfect.
 
Iván
 
 


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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 27 2007 at 05:33


I see only one solution...

The best walkman ever...









...with good headphones




Plus a good tape stock !





Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 15:07
Decent speakers.


Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 16:39
Originally posted by Flyingsod Flyingsod wrote:

 So if you were stuck on an island and could only have ONE piece of high end equipment and the rest had to come from normal consumer stores like walmart what would that ONE piece be.
 
  high end equipment
 
Oh you meant audio equipment.


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 16:45
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I don't need ANY high end equipment. the best equipment is inside your brain. give me a lousy mono tape recorder, and I will be happy


I agree.  It's the quality of the MUSIC that matters, not the quality of the sound. 


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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 17:19
Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I don't need ANY high end equipment. the best equipment is inside your brain. give me a lousy mono tape recorder, and I will be happy


I agree.  It's the quality of the MUSIC that matters, not the quality of the sound. 


Agreed, but the title of the thread does (at least) suggest otherwise... Smile


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http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]


Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 18:00
Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

Originally posted by Flyingsod Flyingsod wrote:

 So if you were stuck on an island and could only have ONE piece of high end equipment and the rest had to come from normal consumer stores like walmart what would that ONE piece be.
Useful like a bass speakers
 
  high end equipment
 
Oh you meant audio equipment.


Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 18:05
a piano




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FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL


Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 18:43
a good hifi system is as only as good as its weakest component, so my Linn Sondek would be useless without  decent amps, cables and speakers. Lost on a desert island though, only a clockwork radio would be really useful!Wink
 
BTW - without decent quality listening equipment you are missing half the picture - our favourite musicians and their producers and technicians spend many hours and many thousands of pounds creating  cd's for our enjoyment, and work very hard perfecting the sound  - show them some respect please and throw the walmart junk and the mp3 players away!Tongue
 
 


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Prog Archives Tour Van


Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 21:26
Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

Originally posted by Flyingsod Flyingsod wrote:

 So if you were stuck on an island and could only have ONE piece of high end equipment and the rest had to come from normal consumer stores like walmart what would that ONE piece be.
 
  high end equipment
 
Oh you meant audio equipment.



 That is TWO pieces of equipment.





 .


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 21:37
Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:

a good hifi system is as only as good as its weakest component, so my Linn Sondek would be useless without  decent amps, cables and speakers. Lost on a desert island though, only a clockwork radio would be really useful!Wink
 
BTW - without decent quality listening equipment you are missing half the picture - our favourite musicians and their producers and technicians spend many hours and many thousands of pounds creating  cd's for our enjoyment, and work very hard perfecting the sound  - show them some respect please and throw the walmart junk and the mp3 players away!Tongue
 
 

you are obviously one of those hi-fi freaks. even the kind of cable matters? wow! I will never understand what drives you. you must have real problems listening to an album that was recorded with sub-par equipment and will probably automatically downgrade an album with bad sound quality by one or two stars, while for me bad sound quality is not of any interest for rating an album. some of the albums I would give 5 stars to have awful sound quality. for me it is rather the opposite: these wonderfully clean produced albums with top sound quality, played on a top equipment too, leave me strangely cold. somehow I don't hear music there, I just hear sound


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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 21:46
Well, I have to say I agree with most of the posts in general. I call myself a compositional listener. By that I mean I don't really listen to the sound as much as I listen to  the music if ya follow my meaning. I've lost myself in AM radio broadcasts of good music and gotten into a physical altercation once over a static filled song. We were just driving out of range of the station but a great song was still playing and my passenger wanted to change the station! Well, I didnt let him even though we ended up driving off the road a bit.

 I noticed recently though that some of the keyboard parts on Tresspass were barely audible when I played the record. And to boot the bass  and mid lows were sounding really muddled and making the notes blend into each other. It seriously changed what the composition was supposed to be. I am entertaining the possibility thats there is other artistic things I am missing because of poor equipment.  So I thought I'd look into the world of super hifi but didnt know where to start.

 Oliverstoned I have to agree that probably is a great solution for a desert isle but I have to give Thanks to Phileas for providing the only concrete answer I could use. I do have 3 sets of speakers here (all mid to low quality) SO I guess ill see exactly what kind of difernce they can make by switching them  out. If it's serious I'll consider some high end speakers and other equipment. 

thanks all and if you have any other thoughts they would be apreciated.




Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 21:50
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:


you are obviously one of those hi-fi freaks. even the kind of cable matters? wow! I will never understand what drives you. you must have real problems listening to an album that was recorded with sub-par equipment and will probably automatically downgrade an album with bad sound quality by one or two stars, while for me bad sound quality is not of any interest for rating an album. some of the albums I would give 5 stars to have awful sound quality. for me it is rather the opposite: these wonderfully clean produced albums with top sound quality, played on a top equipment too, leave me strangely cold. somehow I don't hear music there, I just hear sound



Funny that you'd write that while I was writing my responses and make the same comparison to sound vs music. We must be on the same wavelength :)


Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 22:19

I'm not an audiophile, but I would probably go with a nice pair of headphones. I think the amount of money some people spend on audio equipment is ridiculous, but I bought $60 headphones (it was for the nosie cancellation which ended up not working well, but oh well) and the difference between that and the headphones that came with my CD player was significant.

MP3 players are no different from CDs if you encode high enough. I would not want to listen to 128kb/s MP3s, but I can hear no difference whatsoever when it's encoded at around 200 kb/s or higher.


Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 04:50
Originally posted by Flyingsod Flyingsod wrote:

Well, I have to say I agree with most of the posts in general. I call myself a compositional listener. By that I mean I don't really listen to the sound as much as I listen to  the music if ya follow my meaning. I've lost myself in AM radio broadcasts of good music and gotten into a physical altercation once over a static filled song. We were just driving out of range of the station but a great song was still playing and my passenger wanted to change the station! Well, I didnt let him even though we ended up driving off the road a bit.

 I noticed recently though that some of the keyboard parts on Tresspass were barely audible when I played the record. And to boot the bass  and mid lows were sounding really muddled and making the notes blend into each other. It seriously changed what the composition was supposed to be. I am entertaining the possibility thats there is other artistic things I am missing because of poor equipment.  So I thought I'd look into the world of super hifi but didnt know where to start.

 
 
 
Trespass is a fantastic album sonically, very smooth and detailed - indeed you seriously need to upgrade your system and you will discover a new world, the albums will sound how their creators intended. Incidentally Mark Knopfler and the Conductor Von Karajan were both keen advocates of cd music systems when they appeared in the 80's, though Phillips had been working on the format for years before. CD gave vinyl playback systems a good boot up the backside and technology has come a long way since then for both formats, though Mark Knopfler said at the time about cd that at last people could hear a recording near to how it sounds in the studio, a bit of an ambitious statement, and cd technology has really advanced since then, but he was referring to the quality of the playback technology more than the actual cd - the studios contained state of the art technology, but today it it really possible to hear how it sounded in the studio, as the artists intended, hearing good sound is hearing the music properly. Instruments sound like real instruments, the true emotional meaning and purposeful playing come across very clearly. As for cables, it is true - poor quality cables can spoil the sound!
 
BTW you don't have to spend thousands to get a good system, there are some brilliant budget equipment to be had out there, especially the British  makes, we still lead the world in inexpensive hifi equipment!
 
Smile


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Prog Archives Tour Van


Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 05:44
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:


Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:

a good hifi system is as only as good as its weakest component, so my Linn Sondek would be useless without  decent amps, cables and speakers. Lost on a desert island though, only a clockwork radio would be really useful!Wink
 

BTW - without decent quality listening equipment you are missing half the picture - our favourite musicians and their producers and technicians spend many hours and many thousands of pounds creating  cd's for our enjoyment, and work very hard perfecting the sound  - show them some respect please and throw the walmart junk and the mp3 players away!Tongue

 

 
you are obviously one of those hi-fi freaks. even the kind of cable matters? wow! I will never understand what drives you. you must have real problems listening to an album that was recorded with sub-par equipment and will probably automatically downgrade an album with bad sound quality by one or two stars, while for me bad sound quality is not of any interest for rating an album. some of the albums I would give 5 stars to have awful sound quality. for me it is rather the opposite: these wonderfully clean produced albums with top sound quality, played on a top equipment too, leave me strangely cold. somehow I don't hear music there, I just hear sound


If it's cold, it's because it's numeric, and worst, bad numeric. Tube amps compensate by giving back that analog warmth, that real sound with matter, but about source, there's no comparison as well between vinyl and CD.
A great system with analog source and tubes in the highs can't be cold. That would leave you hot




Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 05:45
Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

Originally posted by Flyingsod Flyingsod wrote:

 So if you were stuck on an island and could only have ONE piece of high end equipment and the rest had to come from normal consumer stores like walmart what would that ONE piece be.

 

  high end equipment

 

Oh you meant audio equipment.


Equipment from the Silicon Valley maybe?





Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 08:14
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:


Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:

a good hifi system is as only as good as its weakest component, so my Linn Sondek would be useless without  decent amps, cables and speakers. Lost on a desert island though, only a clockwork radio would be really useful!Wink
 

BTW - without decent quality listening equipment you are missing half the picture - our favourite musicians and their producers and technicians spend many hours and many thousands of pounds creating  cd's for our enjoyment, and work very hard perfecting the sound  - show them some respect please and throw the walmart junk and the mp3 players away!Tongue

 

 
you are obviously one of those hi-fi freaks. even the kind of cable matters? wow! I will never understand what drives you. you must have real problems listening to an album that was recorded with sub-par equipment and will probably automatically downgrade an album with bad sound quality by one or two stars, while for me bad sound quality is not of any interest for rating an album. some of the albums I would give 5 stars to have awful sound quality. for me it is rather the opposite: these wonderfully clean produced albums with top sound quality, played on a top equipment too, leave me strangely cold. somehow I don't hear music there, I just hear sound


If it's cold, it's because it's numeric, and worst, bad numeric. Tube amps compensate by giving back that analog warmth, that real sound with matter, but about source, there's no comparison as well between vinyl and CD.
A great system with analog source and tubes in the highs can't be cold. That would leave you hot


 
 
hopefully my next big upgrade (apart from a rapidly disintegrating car) will be a tube amp!Big%20smile
 
 PS - i generally  lose little sleep about what people think, but if anyone believes i care more about sound than music, just have a look at my album/concert reviews!Tongue
 
 
 


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Prog Archives Tour Van


Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 08:49


Just to make your mouth water...


Jolida


Cayin


Antique sound lab


Melody


Prima luna





Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 11:28
Olivier you're a wind-up! Cry
 
i must write 50 times-
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak
i am not a gear freak ................
 
GeekTongue
 


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Prog Archives Tour Van


Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 14:56


Yes, you are!









Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 15:40
I guess I would go for any device that can be powered by solar cells ... Big%20smile

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https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:


Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 16:01
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:



Yes, you are!







 
 
....i don't do cassettes anymore! Tongue
 
 
show me some  TOOOBS!!Big%20smile
 
 
 
 


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Prog Archives Tour Van


Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 17:30
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I guess I would go for any device that can be powered by solar cells ... Big%20smile
 
That's certainly the most sensible comment in this thread thus farWink


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When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.


Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 17:31
Originally posted by Heavyfreight Heavyfreight wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I guess I would go for any device that can be powered by solar cells ... Big%20smile
 
That's certainly the most sensible comment in this thread thus farWink
 
But would they be audiophile cells?


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When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 21:04
Originally posted by Heavyfreight Heavyfreight wrote:

Originally posted by Heavyfreight Heavyfreight wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I guess I would go for any device that can be powered by solar cells ... Big%20smile
 
That's certainly the most sensible comment in this thread thus farWink
 
But would they be audiophile cells?


Surely solar cells would vary too much in voltage for an audiophile.  They could only listen as long as their batteries lasted. 


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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 30 2007 at 04:12
Battery should provide a purer power and not subject to variations.

Just for the eye's pleasure











Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 30 2007 at 04:17


And here's the Goldmund Mimesis IV, a very rare tuner (there are only several ones)which costed 10 000€ new.

One of the most performant sources ever.




Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: January 31 2007 at 04:01
Ah, Studer A710 cassette machines.  I worked on them when I was at the BBC.  Not a bad machine but I always preferred the sound of my Aiwa deck.
 
Tuners are an interesting audiophile concept.  With a tuner you can only listen to what your radio station produces and they definitely do not use audiophile equipment.  Add to that the fact that the standardised FM transmission only has a bandwidth of 15KHz and uses a mono + stereo and mono - stereo derivation of left and right using a limited stereo signal modulated around a 38KHz carrier and the sound quality will never be great.
 
I remember an audiophile friend preaching about this great tuner that he had for listening to Radio 3 (BBC Classical music channel) with gold connectors and everything else and raving about that pure analogue sound.  He was most put out when I explained to him that Radio three travelled through nearly THREE MILES of twisted pair bell wire inside Broadcasting House and then went to the transmitter via a 13BIT linear digital link.  All goes to prove that it's all subjective.  He had spent the money and was convinced that his kit was best so, to him, it sounded the best.Wink


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When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.


Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 31 2007 at 04:09
"only has a bandwidth of 15KHz"

An analog device which does 15KHz well works better than a digital which does 20khz bad and adds supersonic noise.
A good tuner explodes any CD player in term of musicality and performance. The tuner i show up is one of the world best sources.

"With a tuner you can only listen to what your radio station produces and they definitely do not use audiophile equipment."

Depends on the radio station. Here in parisian area, we have TSF (jazz radio) which sounds excellent, they play vinyl sometimes, but the Cds are excellent.

Moreover, the DIRECT concert IS THE BEST MUSICAL EXPERIENCE in term of performance and precense, cause there's no recording process. Nothing can't beat it.

The radio is excellent cause there's an analog process.
It's like hertzian TV which is far superior in term of picture and sound than the same channel through the satellite.







Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: January 31 2007 at 04:23
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

"only has a bandwidth of 15KHz"

An analog device which does 15KHz well works better than a digital which does 20khz bad and adds supersonic noise.
A good tuner explodes any CD player in term of musicality and performance. The tuner i show up is one of the world best sources.

"With a tuner you can only listen to what your radio station produces and they definitely do not use audiophile equipment."

Depends on the radio station. Here in parisian area, we have TSF (jazz radio) which sounds excellent, they play vinyl sometimes, but the Cds are excellent.

Moreover, the DIRECT concert IS THE BEST MUSICAL EXPERIENCE in term of performance and precense, cause there's no recording process. Nothing can't beat it.

The radio is excellent cause there's an analog process.
It's like hertzian TV which is far superior in term of picture and sound than the same channel through the satellite.





 
Oliver, I work in radio and can tell you that practically EVERY radio station now links to transmitter via compressed (APT-X or MPeg2) digital link and then most use a digital sound processor at the transmitter (like the Optimod 8400).  This includes French stations who, in my experience, use far more digital processing on air than in any other country. 
 
The sound quality of FM transmission, regardless of whether it's CD, Vinyl or live is audibly worse than a direct connection.  The difference is far more noticable than say MP3 over CD and anyone will immediately notice the difference in a back to back test between FM and a direct connection.
 
That said the FM system is, like MP3, quite acceptable to most people and has a rightful place.  I agree with you that it allows us to hear "live" performances without any editing and that has to be good.
 
By the way, video signals by their very nature lend themselves perfectly to digitisation.  Even analogue televisions use a digitised delivery (TV screens are pixleated, therefore "digital").  A linear digital delivery of video is unbeatable by even the best analogue TV system because of the inherent noise in transmission.  The reason that current analogue systems still often look better is that the TV companies compress the digital signals to the point of distortion to fit more channels onto the multiplex.  Therefore rapidly changing pictures (like panning across a football game) lead to picture break up.


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When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.


Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 31 2007 at 04:37

I agree with you that most stations heavily use compressions which give an over-bumped sound (especially the "youth" ones broadcasting rap and these kind of crap), but the good stations like the classic music ones don't do it (or not too much) and the result is far beyond any Cd player in term of performance, musicality and precense.

The radio transmission "analogizes" the sound and i maintain what i said about hertzian TV Vs satellite. No comparison, both at a sound and picture level, even if hertzian TV is numerized also, i agree.
The result is what it is!




Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: February 02 2007 at 06:51
Originally posted by Heavyfreight Heavyfreight wrote:

Ah, Studer A710 cassette machines.  I worked on them when I was at the BBC.  Not a bad machine but I always preferred the sound of my Aiwa deck.
 
Tuners are an interesting audiophile concept.  With a tuner you can only listen to what your radio station produces and they definitely do not use audiophile equipment.  Add to that the fact that the standardised FM transmission only has a bandwidth of 15KHz and uses a mono + stereo and mono - stereo derivation of left and right using a limited stereo signal modulated around a 38KHz carrier and the sound quality will never be great.
 
I remember an audiophile friend preaching about this great tuner that he had for listening to Radio 3 (BBC Classical music channel) with gold connectors and everything else and raving about that pure analogue sound.  He was most put out when I explained to him that Radio three travelled through nearly THREE MILES of twisted pair bell wire inside Broadcasting House and then went to the transmitter via a 13BIT linear digital link.  All goes to prove that it's all subjective.  He had spent the money and was convinced that his kit was best so, to him, it sounded the best.Wink
 
 
...so where does our licence fee money go then..?!!Angry
 
Wink


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Prog Archives Tour Van


Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: February 02 2007 at 07:28
I'll give you a clue:



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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: February 02 2007 at 07:37
^ ...AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHH!Dead
 
BEEB I DEMAND A REFUND!!Angry
 
 


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Prog Archives Tour Van


Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: February 02 2007 at 07:53
Not forgetting in the past...



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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: February 02 2007 at 14:07
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Not forgetting in the past...

 
 
Never knew Danbo had been on British telly!
Tongue


Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: February 02 2007 at 16:05
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Not forgetting in the past...

 
Jim, I thought that you were supposed to put old pictures of yourself in the "Rogues Gallery" thread?


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When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.


Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: February 04 2007 at 16:28
let us yanks in on it. What's at Albert Square?

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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: February 05 2007 at 03:56
Bless you for not knowing!

'tis the fictional setting for that great British documentary series, 'Eastenders'

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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: February 05 2007 at 03:56
Originally posted by Heavyfreight Heavyfreight wrote:

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Not forgetting in the past...

 

Jim, I thought that you were supposed to put old pictures of yourself in the "Rogues Gallery" thread?


...and again...

Git!

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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: Marcos
Date Posted: February 19 2007 at 22:23
http://www.queeselrockprog.com.ar/mis12Albumes.htm - http://www.queeselrockprog.com.ar/mis12Albumes.htm
A list for a desert island

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www.postmortemweb.com.ar



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