Peter Gabriel: prog RELATED??
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Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33530
Printed Date: November 28 2024 at 14:09
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Topic: Peter Gabriel: prog RELATED??
Posted By: The T
Subject: Peter Gabriel: prog RELATED??
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 16:37
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After hearing UP and SO, I wanted to ask this: do you agree with PG being in the prog-related category? I found UP much proggier that other releases, and even his most poppy, SO, is not regular pop/rock but I can hear lot of, if not progressive, at least more artistic elements than in regular rock. And that's talking about his MOST POP release, because for me, UP is completely prog, Art Rock would be for me the ideal genre for him.
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Replies:
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 16:40
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Uhm... African Prog?
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Posted By: White Shadow
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 16:51
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Art Rock is the only way to describe his music for it is so varying and unique (not to mention brilliant).
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Posted By: mattmacneil
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 16:57
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Satanic Ultra Bloody Antrometal.....Obviously. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/mattmacneil/?chartstyle=red"> 
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 17:00
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Everything is Art-rock except for bloody metal.
Gabriel is actually one of the very few in this category which is exactly related to prog - and very much so indeed. If someone asks me what Prog-related means, my immediate reply would be: "It's Peter Gabriel's solo".
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 17:47
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Prog related. It's way too pop to go in the Art Rock catagory.
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 17:48
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Neo-Eclectic Freudian Prog |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 18:44
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I have to go for the wise guy answer so: Satanic-ultra-bloody-antrometal. Also, I'm not sure if either prog-related or art rock really fits what he's doing these day. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 18:47
I find Gabriel's solo work to be eclectic to be sure but not a lot of prog in it. I do like most of it though.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Spacemac
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 19:23
world prog 
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Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 19:34
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Prog related seems like a comfy category for him. Phish, on the other hand, need to me moved into Art Rock or possibly jazz fusion. They're too proggy for prog related. ------------- 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 19:40
??!???? It sounds great... I don't know what the hell it is, but it sounds great.  -------------
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Spacemac wrote:Posted By: trauma0
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 22:33
yeah... I AGREE! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trauma0/?chartstyle=itunesrecent"> 
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Posted By: Lex C
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 23:15
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I would have to say Gabrielcore.
------------- You think we've developed fast that we're civilized and intelligent I'll let you in on a secret...We've developed things the rest is just knowledge passed on. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 23:24
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From the list, Art Rock, he did Prog in his first two albums very close if not Symph, then had a short Pop period and then he blended World and even some Aavant in Up-
But just as a curiosity...Isn't his World Music a form of Prog Folk?
Anyway, he's too iconic to be in Prog Related but that's not my call.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 22 2007 at 23:34
That's my point, I think he has enough "progginess", and as you mention, credentials, to be in a "proggier" category. As not one fits completely, I say Art Rock would be the ideal genre. But that's even less a call of mine. In fact, WHAT can I call?  -------------
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 00:25
I agree with the boss. (big surprise, huh  )
------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 01:23
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I'd be all too happy to move him into Art Rock. As a matter of fact, I love a good deal of his solo output, which I have to admit I prefer to what he did with Genesis - and I definitely agree with The T that "Up" is quite proggy. I'll consult Micky and Rico on the matter, and if they agree we can definitely move him to our department. Edit: if Radiohead are in Art Rock, I don't see why PG should be in PR. I don't really see Radiohead as proggier that PG. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 08:42
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For me he's one of the best excamples of the former definition of Art-Rock (the more pop-focussed style of prog), but he should off course be labelled under progressive and not related.
Phil Collins should be added under related, just like Mike & The Mechanicxs and probable Banks also. ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 09:23
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The "former" definition of Art Rock, more pop-focused styled prog, is one I don't even remember off. And certainly we don't got for that right now. (on an even distant, though that's not the subject, I don't advise the addition of artist from legendary progressive bands' solo output simply by that - only if they are, you guessed it, progressive; Collins is so far from prog with his own music, I can't imagine him getting here with the credit of merituous prog quality; Banks is here)
Without necesarily taking the extra star(s) I have in as a rank's astute, I don't see the leap towards full prog and powerful radiance, for Peter Gabriel possible, efficient, necessary.
As eugene said, he's actually a better example for prog-related than many others that share the genre, for that artist which oriented to something different by all means, but isn't from the "likings" of progressive (in our world or in others).
The best examples for Gabriel having been prog are his 4 Peter Gabriel gems. Out of which, just like Ivan said, [Car] and [Scratch] are the progressive ones (even art-related: humour, light moods of dynamics, small avants, a handful of skepsises etc.). From then we talk to a lot of definitions: rock, pop/rock, soundtrackings, orientationism, world music, groove and substance music. Which don't fit much of the times, except in this relation.
I'm a big fan of Peter Gabriel, so I wouldn't mind myself having looked at him as outstandingly progressive - only that he's not entirely - or endlessly. His music is no ordinary and no shallow, he does it deep, he impresses with it and shares it "via" emotions. But, with qualities or without, I consider him a worthy prog-relatedartist.
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 09:26
 brilliantly said...  -------------
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Posted By: andu
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 10:04
A-HA! I made a printscreen of that!  An Admin using the "If X belongs to A and Y=X, then Y also belongs to A" argument!  ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 10:46
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Prog-related. He is a bit too poppy for my taste. Especially "So" was a very big disappointment.
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 11:16
How about Long Walk Home ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 11:43
Ah, you got me... How much do you want in order not to expose my guilty secret? BTW, if the poll results remain as they are now, I'll see about moving him to Art Rock - provided Micky agrees as well (and he will, or else.... ). |
Posted By: bluetailfly
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 11:44
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I would like to preface my opinion by saying that this whole categorization game is really getting a tad insane... But having said that, Peter Gabriel's solo work to me is simply progressive rock, I don't know what sub-genre it fits into, and I really am not that enamoured of all the sub-categorizations, it's too beauracratic.
The man is a giant in the founding generation of prog. That's enough. All his subsequent work grows out of his work with Genesis, there's an organic progression of growth. I don't think he grew out or away from prog rock, he just kept developing his own niche. If anything, he is further defining prog rock, he's blazing the trail.
Enough with the freaking categorizations already... ------------- "The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle." |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 11:51
Like it or not, this site does have categories, or subgenres, and we're supposed to use them as guidelines in order to help users (especially people who are getting into prog) with becoming more familiar with the various incarnations and definitions of Prog. Unless the owners decide to abolish aforesaid categories, we of the Genre Teams try to find the best possible collocation for each and every one of the bands or artists included in the site's database. I'm curious as to what you would suggest, though... Perhaps, taking PG out of Prog-Related and having him as a category of his own? It is easy to criticise the site's organisation and the (admittedly often tiresome) discussions on the forum - less so to suggest viable alternatives. |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 11:59
Well, (*Corleone voice*) "I'll make you an offer you can't refuse". You just need to look in antoher direction I'll press some Art Rock submissions (I also have inside help so you'd better not interfere )On-topic: I find the sub-genres&categories system very helpful! ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
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Posted By: bluetailfly
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 12:00
I'm aware of the difficlty you guys face daily, I'm just voicing frustration; sometimes change for the better has to start with a clear view of a problem. The solution is a later development that involves back room discussions, payoffs, intimidation...that sort of thing.
but, I don't know, I don't think "prog related" works for me. I'll have to consult the genres manual and get back to you on my viable alternative. ------------- "The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle." |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 14:50
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 15:02
I think for once that equation WORKS here! You see, is different when you say "If X is in PA, then Y has to be, too". In that case, we're talking HAVING A NEW ARTIST IN THE ARCHIVES, so if the Admin. Team chooses wrong, they would be actually DAMAGING THE SITE's CREDIBILITY, so when we're discussing (well, when we discuss and the Admin. Team. decides ) an entrance into the Archives, serious thought is needed. Now, the equation "if X = P, Y = P, and Z > or = than P, then Z is equal to P, also!!! (any math student here, don't bash me please, it's just T'rigonometrics, not trigonometrics ). If we have less-proggy bands in the Art-rock genre, (Radiohead is great but really...), so what harm is done to the site if a proggier-artists is listed under that category, too? We're not including someone who isn't prog in a prog site, we're just putting him where he belongs.
It's all a matter of arithmetics, geometry, and a few factored polynomials. -------------
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 15:03
I still get confused every time I see Gabriel referred to as pop. He may have had a few songs that had a bit of a pop feel, and some hits, but he is far from a pop artist. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 15:08
You're right! Man, listen to SO, the so-called ultra-pop release by Gabriel (the exaggeration was mine )... We have a couple very pop songs, but even those songs are NOT your average rock-pop! And we have a couple of no-pop songs, too! So even that most-poppy of albums (according to many) is not as pop as, say, my good friend and respected artist Phil Collins (whose music I like, I admit it). It's not pop, it's art-rock. Besides that, why do we have to judge a musicians' whole output by just their poppiest album? I'd say we have to see their output in general, and then decide. -------------
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 16:13
| I have his first four albums, and I think he's fine in Prog Related. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 17:38
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hmmmm.... thinking it over..... not certain of AR status... not flatly against idea either. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 17:46
good post... tempted to revisit the age old debate of 'progessive' rock v. Progressive Rock (ie. Prog) leaning toward a no vote here.. your post smacks of another GIANT of progressive rock.. that is not here.. and has been rejected (so far here). Nothing against Gabriel.. want to remain consistant since this is a borderline call in my opinion. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: January 23 2007 at 17:55
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I don't he would be seen as Art Rock if he had the same music but his name wasn't Peter Gabriel. I think if some dude named Tony R (just an example) released So or Up, it would be seen as Prog Related at best. I really like his solo career though. -------------  
RIP in bossa nova heaven. |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 08:40
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I love Gabriel's solo career but I don't think everything he does should necessarily be put under progressive rock. His first two albums are slightly prog, 3 and 4 are kind of progressive as well but not to a great extent.
His newest album is a new form of progressive music in my opinion. Maybe progressive world? All I know is that his music career is fantastic and his songs are brilliant, progressive or not. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |