Ratings
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Help us improve the site
Forum Description: Help us improve the forums, and the site as a whole
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32382
Printed Date: February 24 2025 at 21:22
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Ratings
Posted By: Chris H
Subject: Ratings
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 21:13
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Hey there. I don't know if anybody else feels the same way I do, so i guess that's why I'm asking this. Am I the only one that feels that many people's ratings are influenced by other member's ratings? I mean please people, rate the album how YOU feel, not how good everybody else thinks it is. Has anyone ever looked at the reviews for "Dark Side Of The Moon", "Close To The Edge" or "Selling England By The Pound"? Hundreds of people give out five star ratings like candy, but either completely side-step reviewing the album as a whole or even forget to mention anythnig positive.
And also, just because you think an album isn't great, don't automatically rate it one star. I'm sure you can find something positive about some not-so-hot-to-trot albums.
Please post your comments or opinions because I really think we need to make these ratings a little more accurate and a little less biased to fame. Thanks!
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Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 21:23
| An independant listening, thinking and rating process is so very important, so you raise a good issue. We have to assume that a reasonable amount of members are rating albums honestly - good or bad - separate and unconnected to what *anyone* else thinks. This isn't always the case but it should be encouraged. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 22:07
 Much like a credulous conspiracy theorist, you are jumping to unfounded conclusions.
 As in science, the simplest explanation is the most likely:In the world of progressive rock, the albums you listed are simply very, very popular.
They will naturally get top marks from many people. (They are quite good, and all examples of the highest standards of this genre as well, in my considered opinion.)
This site itself is also quite popular, and it goes worldwide -- it's a big planet out there, with lots of people who happily own copies of those albums on it. How do you think, for example, the Lord of the Rings trilogy would rate, overall, on a fantasy fan site?
I am sure the vast majority of people (at least the grownups) offer their OWN opinion and rating. "Hundreds of people" don't "give out five star ratings like candy" -- one person at a time, sitting alone, reviews an album. There is no conspiracy, nor are prog listeners, as a whole, a bunch of easily-led little lemmings or sheep.
 We know what we like, we like what we know, and what we like tends to be outside the musical mainstream. If we were merely knee-jerk followers of fashion, we'd be into Mariah Carey, Michael Jackson or (God forbid!) even Dream Theater, or some-such pop pablum.  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 00:47
 Why always the cheap attack against DT? Why?
 Ok, anyway, I agree with the rest. Those ratings are well deserved. I've heard those albums a lot of times and finally agreed (believe me , the two first times I heard SEBTP I hated it, now Genesis is among my top)... they were the founders, first thing going for them: second, please, it's just difficult to deny those are true MARVELS of prog rock... but a lot of unknown gems are there to be found! Green carnation is one I just found. I think there could be some "reviewers" that just see the overall rating and go: "yeah, then a 5"... but those I'm sure are FEW and stupid.... I think is insulting to people's intelligence to assume we write reviews and just follow like little sheep what other people think. I'm the first one that HATES whatever is over-idolized (exception: DT... but even DT is loved HERE IN PA, in the rest of the world, who the f**k are those people are going to ask me, so...).
I think that kind of issues will be taken care by the admins. in the review reporting thread... It's INCREDIBLY EASY to be certain which reviews are just COPY-PASTE and which ones aren't.
------------- 
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Peter Rideout wrote:Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 00:51
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because Peter eats babies, thats why, because Peter Rideout said so
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 00:55
Oh Lord, now I know....
Run Portnoy, run -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 01:10
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Before writting areview (I never rate without a review) i'm sure to own the album for a period no shorter than a week and don't read a single review until my own one is finished.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Witchwoodhermit
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 01:22
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It's a good question. For me this site has been an eye opener. My point of reference comes from my unmoveable dislike of Jethro Tulls Passion Play. From my first listen to my last I find little merit in this album. For years my thoughts and views were substansiated by the rock encyclopedias and reviews I've read over the years.
When I joined Prog Archives and started to read the reviews of Passion Play...I couldn't believe my eyes. Not only is this album praised, but loved. Naturally, I returned to the album, based on reviews from "here" and gave it a few more spins. Result.
I don't like Passion Play. I'll spare my rant as I've done it before.
The bottom line and answer to your question is, I enjoy praise for albums I've never heard praise for before. A fresh angle will always inspire. Ultimately however, it's your own tastes that make the call. ------------- Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan ringed by ants and musing over man. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 03:09
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I only give honest ratings.For me CTTE,TAAB,Foxtrot and WYWH are five star albums.The fact that other people agree with me is purely incidental.I'm prepared to go against the grain and have given DSOTM and In A Glass House only 3 stars despite the general acceptance of these being masterpeices.I would hope others are honest in their appraisal and appreciation of any album regardless of its reputation.
Where I can find fault in reviews is when you get an initial statement about such and such an album being a masterpiece but no justification of that in the subsequent comments.That gets my back up even though the opinion itself is an honest one.
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 09:02
bah, another one that by requesting honesty, doesn't realize there are honest reviewers out there. at least that's my feeling, such a thing being adressed to me. 
------------- 
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 13:31
Just my usual tired, teasing little joke at the expense of PM/DT -- I don't really mean it, nor do I think of DT as "pop pablum." (Perhaps I should have listed Milli Vannilli or Wham! instead, but who would I offend with those?)
(I also wanted to lighten the tone of an otherwise pretty serious, even self-righteously indignant post.)
I may not care for Prog Metal and bands like DT, but I DO understand and accept why they're here -- why, if I were thirty years younger, and not nearly as intelligent as I am, plus a crack-addicted, long-haired lobotomised layabout lout and satanist, I might even become a fan of... Whoops! There I go again!
  Teasing is a sign of affection, you know....BTW, thanks for reading & supporting the rest of my post, The Tea -- all the best to you! ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 17:22
| Hmm you were trying to lighten the tone of a self-righteously indignant post were you? Well if you ask me the tone would be much lighter if you did not attack on my opinions Mr. Rideout. |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 17:24
He's not attacking your opinions. Just poking fun at them. If you saw him you would see the twinkle in his eye and hear the sarcasm in his voice. Or something like that. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 18:26
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I like attacks on persons opinions, that's the easiest route to humour. ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 18:28
More important than that.................it was funny!  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 18:44
I see no attack on your opinions, or is disagreement an attack in your eyes? If you offer an opinion on a forum you should expect to see it dissected, otherwise why post? 
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Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 19:21
Peter Rideout's humour is an acquired taste  .. many people will never get used to it (or the obsessive spelling check ).. ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 20:19
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------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 20:22
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Uhh well that was relevant? |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 20:42
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man some sense of humour, for christ sakes!!! ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 05:51
*Sigh* ... you always lash out and deeply hurt people and then later say you don't mean it. Well - it's not funny today, and it wasn't funny a year ago. You'll probably laugh at this post and make fun of it too, or say that I can't take a joke. Peter, please simply admit that you really think that prog metal fans are idiots (or as you put it "less intelligent than you"), and stop pretending that you're only joking. BTW: Happy christmas! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 06:05
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Time to lighten up guys, goodwill to all men, 'tis the season to be jolly, and all that.
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Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 19:30
| Thank you Mike, I fully agree. Some people need to know where their brand of tasteless comedy is not welcome. |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 19:45
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I tend to give out too many five star reviews, but I'm new and I'm reviewing the album that I know by heart first. But when I rate a five star, or any star, album, I sum up the tracks and/or how the album as a whole strikes me. If it's one of my favorites, I write review mainly to convince myself whether or not its a five star. It helps me weed out my favorites from true classics. For instance, Pink Floyd's Animals is one of my favorite releases, but I gave it four stars (or I would if it would stop saying that I've already posted a review for it). I do read other reviews before I post. I give another listen to the album I'm reviewing right before I write the review, and others' reviews can point you where to look, though I still listen to the whole thing. |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 19:58
Why is it not welcome?? because you say so?... everyone is exposed to intervene in the subject, just because one guy dared to disagree with you means that he's sabotaging?? if you ask me you're the one who's acting harsh here, saying that there's a sort of "conspiracy" here... I'm sorry but those bands you mentioned, as Peter said, are popular, and not you, nor I, can change that fact; if they want to give 5-stars review is their business, not because of some stupid conspiracy to bring those bands to the top 20 or something (which is very stupid, no one should care for the top 20 in the first place)... everyone just happens to have their opinion and if their own is the same as the rest, then let them say it anyway. EDIT: Peter came out a bit harsh too... but he clearly says he's joking, so there's no reason to get all worked up with his game ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 20:58
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Ok then I guess I should clarify things here. First off, about my original post, I am aware of the popularity of the bands but I was just using them as examples because they are the biggest examples of this (in my opinion). I don't have a problem with people rating these album five stars, I just would like people to have actually justifiable reasons, not just two sentences saying "it was a masterpiece" or "i liked every song". And about the whole "Top 20 conspiracy" you mentioned, I would prefer this site not even have a top 20 just for the fact people will be compelled to rate the favorite albums higher just to see it succeed, with no regards to the musical content.
And on the other hand, I don't believe I'm the one acting harsh here, I was just trying to keep Peter's comments under control.
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Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 22:13
I didn't see at all harshness in Peter's words (other than the usual DT jokes  , which I understand why it's offending to some people)... but anyway, why create such a controversy over such meaningless things??... well, back to topic...
about your complain: the fact remains that if they want to see their favourite album succeed, it's simply because IT IS their favourite album!! ... in the end people are being honest about it (I can't conceive a person writting a review without even listening to the album... even so, it's their business after all) also, there are guidelines for writting reviews (concerning minimum number of characters and such) so if there's a person who only writes things like "it's a great album, buy it", that review should be, according to the guidelines, deleted... but believe me, it is a very exhausting task to clean up all review pages, but they should be working on it  .
But I really wouldn't worry much about that if I were you If you have an example of these reviews you should show them to Easy Livin MERRY CHRISTMAS ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 08:09
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I'm sorry if my response came out a little bit harsh too ... but I'd like to stand by it. I'm not deeply offended by Peter's post, and I hope that he's not offended by my answer, but PM bashers should not get away with the constant criticism just by adding an ironic/joking touch. Think about it: When do PM fans ever bash other genres? I may have made some negative comments about Krautrock, but only in threads about the genre, where people were asking about my opinion. And of course negative comments are not bad per se, but if they also question the intellectual capabilities of the fans of the genre, or imply that it's immature and not suitable for grown up people, it *is* offensive IMO. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 08:16
I agree with Mike here...after all true feelings are often disguised as jest. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 09:08
so true so true so true
i thought about it for a very long time - just thought about it - that' s it
i am blatant prog-metal fan just because this is best thing that ever happened to me - metal - i love metal
and, yes, i never ever bashed any other genre, how could i - i do not know any other genre, do they really exist? even if they do - who the hell needs them...
++++
look, people, above is just parody on my neighbour next door - very nice chap actually - he is getting all the metal, which I want to get rid of, from me.
He really knows very little else in music apart from metal and prog-metal, and not because he's stupid - he is just young boy, and metal is his preference at the current stage of his development. Apart from music he knows a lot of things and it's normally very nice talking to him. I'm often joking with him in the manner close to what Peter Rideout tells you here, and believe me, there is nothing diminishing or offensive in these jokes, it's more like a father making a bit of mockery of his son. I really don't think it's meant to hurt your feelings. I also have friends of my age who are fans of metal, and we also joking with each other about our musical "idols" and no one get hurt.
Anyway, Christmas is on the way, wonderful time of replete laziness and relaxation, enjoy your Holidays Season. Best wishes to you all!!!
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 09:14
No Mike, I WON'T admit that, because it's simply not true.
How could I, a rational, adequately-intelligent person, actually believe that all fans of a certain form of music are "idiots?" That's just silly.
Beyond the fine, obviously smart (and often funny/good-humoured) metal fans I encounter & exchange PMs & banter with here, I teach, you know -- I am exposed to intelligent young metal fans all of the time.
I was even listening to (and thoroughly enjoying) Crimson's Power to Believe yesterday, and thinking "wow, this is almost metal!" I have other music (Steve Unruh, Steve Morse, Rush, etc.) with some strong metal elements in it, and I like it very much. More than once, I have taken pains to post, in a spirit of fairness and honesty, that while I don't care for prog metal overall, I can see why it's called that, why it's here, and why it should remain here. Have you honestly never read such words from me?
 You really think my above silly, tongue-in-cheek post was "lashing out?"
Why don't YOU just admit that you can't take ANY teasing on this subject (at least not from me), and that you will always take any of my joking references to metal in a deeply personal fashion?I will NOT be censored by you as to what I can say here (along those lines). I make it very clear that I'm joking (note the HUGE winking emoticon, above), and if not, where is the huge righteous outcry from all the other incensed metal fans? Where are Bryan, Cyggie, Tricky, OG and Progto on this? No, it's always you.
 Your constant taking of personal offense at (parts of) posts not addressed to you, and now implying that I've somehow sullied your entire Christmas is rather wearying, and overdone. I am starting to think that you really don't have a detectable sense of humour, and have a real chip on your shoulder re your tastes in "your" music. Re your "it wasn't funny a year ago," I have actually been here for twice that long, and more (well before you joined) and have been writing such posts as my above one all along. Yet metal fans still join here, and happily remain. Hmmmm. Perhaps most people really DO believe me when I say I'm joking?? (Or at least they have thicker skin -- it's just MUSIC, after all.)
Please Mike, lighten up -- make fun of my lack of hair, my fondness for some country music, or something.
Alternately, just ignore my posts -- others have attacked metal's presence here in no uncertain, non-humourous terms, in the recent past, and you have not responded to their posts, I noticed.
 I don't recall ever so personally questioning your character here, as you do mine (at least, until now), but you have publicly called mine into question, so I must respond.
Not much fun, is it?
 In any case, a Merry Chistmas to you, too. I do wish we could manage to get along better!
Sincerely,
Peter Rideout ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 09:19
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Back on topic:
I think that the people who write the one star reviews are trying to force their opinions on other people, and thats not cool man. I wonder if they see any good things in the albums they bash. I mean I didn't like Moving Pictures but I gave it a 3 out of 5 stars because I recognise the brilliance of Rush. |
Posted By: martinn
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 09:21
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@Peter Try using Mike's signatures, I think you will get along so much better.. ------------- 
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 09:27
I think that the people who write a review with any rating are trying to impose their opinion on other people, and that's very cool, man, as long as there are people who can be easily forced to accept and adopt same.
You are free to give any rating to any album, and so are the others. As long as "one star" rating exists, it should be used to serve it's purpose.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 09:30
Well I ,uh, hmmm. Good point. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 09:34
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Well, to hell with it -- that's sure put a damper on my day.
I really do think that a sense of humour is becoming steadily rarer here, and that too many otherwise wonderful people take music MUCH too seriously. I suppose, to appease the over-sensitive few, I should simply NEVER mention metal again.
(I'll herewith give that a go -- my Christmas gift to Mike. I'll be watching though, for a united outcry from all of the metal fans whenever someone else dares to say anything -- joking or not -- at metal's expense.)
ho
ho
ho.
PS: I still LOVE that Spinal Tap Christmas song! And the Metallica/TSO one.... ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 09:42
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/new_reply_form.asp?PID=2310010&PN=2&TR=31">
Posted: Today at 03:59
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 09:48
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That's it from me -- peace to all. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 13:07
It's not so much what you said about metal. You said that people who like metal are less intelligent than you ... you might as well have said "you're idiots", it's essentially the same thing, even if you don't mean it it's how it comes across. I guess I'll never understand why you have to add things like that to your comments about that genre. Well, I knew that would "put a damper" on your day ... but your post had that effect on me too. Of course I'd rather have a situation where we're both happy rather than us both feeling bad ...  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 17:09
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Okay since this is my post, I'm gonna have to play father here but it seems kind of weird because im newer to the site by two years and younger by over twenty. =] So yeah, just so we can all stay on good terms, why don't we just try and keep negative opinons inside our heads? Personally, I am not the biggest fan of progressive-metal either, but I'm not going to call them idiots. MikeEnRegalia is probably one of the most informed member I have noticed on this site. So lets only voice our positive non-musical opinons here please, and have a safe and happy holidays guys!
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 17:31
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^ this makes much sense, but I guess I'm just not yet wise enough to "be the bigger man". Perhaps it is indeed my adolescent, immature metal side that makes me write these posts! *reflects for a while and then decides to play some rounds of Counter-Strike: Source ...*  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 00:29
| Dang it, I'm supposed to be the immature one here. Snap out of it! |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 01:06
'Christmas with the Devil' ...hysterical. |
Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 15:03
And Counter-Strike totally pwns  ------------- Beauty will save the world. 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 15:15
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------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 16:39
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Hmm. I was going to post something on topic, but after reading three pages of verbal free fight I simply forgot what it was... I'll try tomorrow instead. Nightynight!
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 16:42
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Just remembered. It helps to reread the first two post I guess. I have not yet written a 5-star, nor a 1-star, but I have my mind on a few albums that deserve these markings. They will be there. As for influencing the scores: it happens, and Easy Livin and the other moderators try to catch offenders whenever they can - just help them by spotting abuse. ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: January 05 2007 at 20:48
Hehe, the topics are just there to confuse you. Every thread turns into a verbal battle to death at some point.  ------------- Beauty will save the world.
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