I get my news from CNN, radio news and you guys.... First I've heard about the problems in Venezuela.

Sometimes it feels like the world is a huge hot potato and the timer is a few clicks from going off.

This is a little piece of our beloved president's madness:

Racist and Sexist Sunday Sermon: The World According to Hugo Chavez January 23 - On Sunday, only days after Senator Christopher Dodd and Senator Lincoln Chaffee grilled National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice for her critical views of the Chavez government during a hearing before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez mocked Dr. Rice on state television. Minutes before his comments, a presenter on a Venezuelan government television program had joked that Dr. Rice “wants it badly or is in love with Chavez.” When President Chavez heard the comment, he screamed that he was going to ask “Condolence” for marriage. When the audience screamed, “No”, he yelled: ”too bad she doesn’t know what she’s missing.” As an American citizen, I am deeply offended by President Chavez’s comments. They are not only a mockery of the United States, but of a struggle which has cost many, many lives. Less than half a century ago, a Black woman couldn’t even sit on a bus if a White person was standing. In fact, it was another courageous Black woman, Rosa Parks, who sparked the civil rights movement in the United States. In 1955, a public bus in the state of Alabama was divided in three sections. The seats in the front were reserved for Whites, the seats in the middle for Blacks, and the space in the back for standing was also occupied by Blacks, when the seats were taken. However, if the seats for Blacks were taken, and a White person boarded the bus, then a seated Black person would have to give up their seat for the White person. When Rosa Parks refused to stand and give up her seat, she was arrested. Almost fifty years later, a Black woman is poised to become Secretary of State of the United States. Dr. Condoleeza Rice is a historical figure, and deserves respect as a scholar, a concert pianist, and a woman who has reached the apex of political success. While I do not agree with her government’s foreign policy, I am awed by her strength and courage to sit before the world and defend her views and actions. Unlike President Bush, Dr. Rice is willing to admit that her government has made mistakes, and is willing to make amends. Unlike her predecessor, Dr. Rice seems determined to confront and solve international problems. In the past, President Chavez referred to Dr. Rice as “ignorant and illiterate.” While the Chavez government touts itself as a defender of women, Blacks, and Native Americans, President Chavez on Sunday demonstrated once again that he is both a racist and a sexist. Far from upholding the ideals of the TransAfrica Forum, Danny Glover, Toni Morrison, and others he has enlisted for support, President Chavez only has one goal: to remain in power and undermine the United States in Latin America and everywhere else. Since Venezuela’s new Social Responsibility for Media Content Law does not include the president’s social responsibility towards women and minorities, Venezuela’s children will continue to be taught by the country’s leader to denigrate women. As long as women and minorities are reviled and oppressed anywhere, whether that be in Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, or even the United States, no country will be able to call itself truly free. The US government needs to wake up. President Chavez cannot be allowed to mock Dr. Rice in order to garner internal support, as Senator Dodd would have us believe. If President Chavez wants “sovereignty”, as he constantly demands, then it is time that he start behaving like a president. To support Rosa Parks, the Black community in Alabama organized a bus boycott which eventually led to the desegregation of public transportation. Many people walked miles to work every day, and others volunteered their time to drive people to work. Perhaps it is time to rethink whether Venezuelan oil is worth the cost of insults, and even lives. When principled decisions are taken for the improvement of a nation, miraculous events occur, such as the nomination of Dr. Condoleeza Rice. Alexandra Beech

for people who want to get a grounding in what's happening in Venezuela - two irish documentary filmmakers went to the country prior to the presidential election in 2002 and became embroiled in a coup attempt in the country

Chavez: Inside the Coup/The Revolution will not be Televised

it's an great piece of documentray film-making

Sean Trane wrote: I hope Chavez holds on and wins because venezuela must get out of the US sphere of interest for the sake of the country - being a puppet state of the US is not about to bring decent lifestyle to the vast majority of the citizens. Right now only 3% of the population is filthy rich and 90% filthy poor (nothing to do with Hygiene though).

Sean, it's obvious you live in Belgium and don't know the Latin America reality, all commuinist revolutions have failed because we love freedom, and this kind of Revolutionaries don't help the poor people to have a better live level, they lower all the people except their corrupt friends and members of the party.

Nobody has the right to take part in political problems of other countries and Chávez is aparently supporting terrorist movements in all South America. to regain our democracy has costed us 50,000 lives and 25 years, nobody has the right to go against our free will.

He is with Fidel Casstro because he needs support from someone, but everybody seems to remember all Communist dictators are the same thing.

Iván

Ivan & Mirco,

Don't get me wrong , I am not a communist sympathyser at all , and I have gone thru South America as a big trip after high school (I was leaving in Canada at the time) back in the early 80's just before the Lightning Path. I started in Caracas and finished in Santiago de Chile so as you can see , I saw a whole bunch of countries and dictatorship (as a tourist not really wanting to meddle in the political side , I thought that the country best run on the continent was Chile under this ugly Pinochet, but I would've not really appreciated living there under that system - I think it should be much better now). If Chavez is forced towards Castro , it is the fault of the US meddling into Venezuela supporting the oligarchy.

Everywhere were happened a revolution beit socialist or communist , it was because people (small but rich) oppressed the vast majority, so in Europe, we think that sharing the wealth makes things better and also improves the economy since the poor are less poor , manage to spend a bit of money and become less of a danger to the wealthy because if not grateful , they have a bit to loose. All the conservateurs (no offence intended if both of you happen to be part of the establishment of your country but I speak in general terms) want is not to lose their position at the top of the pyramid , so they lie , cheat , steal but also kill (or hire to kill) the guys ready to pass them by. Some rich guy in Colombia said that it was the law of nature - hpefully Mankind can change that or else let's go back to the caves.

PS : Ivan: I always think your point is very valuable and like reading your reviews.

Behind this surname hides on the most active reviewer but on of the least active Forumer

By the way, I voted for a fight between the rich and the poor

Read your answers tomorrow , Must go now.

I put 'no idea', despite knowing something about the situation. On the one hand it appears that Chavez, whatever you may say about him, is the democratic choice of the people of Venezuela. He may not be the best choice, but that much vaunted word freedom includes the freedom not to choose a U.S. style of neo conservative, consumer capitalism driven style of government.

On the other hand, in my day to day work here in London I am involved with the education of (mainly) asylum seekers and refugees. There are some Latin American students in my classes (not seeking asylum, btw) including Venezuelans, and I've yet to meet a Venezuelan with a good word to say about Chavez (or even a printable word, come to that). Frankly, I'm a bit confused by all this - any good links to non patisan articles that could throw some light on it all?

put 'no idea', despite knowing something about the situation. On the one hand it appears that Chavez, whatever you may say about him, is the democratic choice of the people of Venezuela.

Please SZYGY, you live happy and comfortable in a Monarchy with a Parliamentary system that works perfectly, you know nothing about South American reality.

Here  it's easy for a General to take the power by the force and then after they silence all the free media and get absolute control of all the democratic institutions to call a referendum  to vote Yes or No, especially when all the media passes the Yes option advertisement 24 hours a day (with the tax money from the Citizens) and say it's a democratic election. Of course that moron called Jimmy Carter supports all this fake elections.

In this referendums (Which I saw many), TV passes advertisement like this:

1. You're against poverty?.........YES
2. You want social justice?.......YES
3. You want free houses?...........YES
4. You want to have work?.........YES
5. You want Progress?...............YES

THEN VOTE YES

They don’t tell you you're voting for a dictator to perpetuate in the power, they only tell you Say YES for progress. And poor people is taken in trucks to vote in exchange for a sandwich and a coke.

In Perú the used some of the more frightening images from The Wall to represent the NO option.

THIS IS BULL SH!T

By the way, thanks for your good wishes SIGOD, but at least in Perú we have a democratic President and Shinning Path is almost a memory of the past, but there were days in which we said goodbye to our families when going to work, because no one knew if some #revolutionary fighter" will blow the building where you worked.

I Know our President is an a$$hole but at least democracy works and he's going to be out in a year.

Shane Trane wrote:

Don't get me wrong , I am not a communist sympathyser at all , and I have gone thru South America as a big trip after high school (I was leaving in Canada at the time) back in the early 80's just before the Lightning Path. I started in Caracas and finished in Santiago de Chile so as you can see , I saw a whole bunch of countries and dictatorship (as a tourist not really wanting to meddle in the political side , I thought that the country best run on the continent was Chile under this ugly Pinochet, but I would've not really appreciated living there under that system - I think it should be much better now). If Chavez is forced towards Castro , it is the fault of the US meddling into Venezuela supporting the oligarchy. Everywhere were happened a revolution beit socialist or communist , it was because people (small but rich) oppressed the vast majority, so in Europe, we think that sharing the wealth makes things better and also improves the economy since the poor are less poor , manage to spend a bit of money and become less of a danger to the wealthy because if not grateful , they have a bit to loose. All the conservateurs (no offence intended if both of you happen to be part of the establishment of your country but I speak in general terms) want is not to lose their position at the top of the pyramid , so they lie , cheat , steal but also kill (or hire to kill) the guys ready to pass them by. Some rich guy in Colombia said that it was the law of nature - hpefully Mankind can change that or else let's go back to the caves.

Sean, I went to Tibet once but I don't understand Buddhism, a trip through South America doesn't give you enough experience and knowledge to understand our complex political system.

1.- You live in Belgium, where Militaries (If there are) study to defend the country in case of war, in South America all Militaries study how to be President, if they don't like the Government, they simply take the Power, Velazco in Perú, Pinochet in Chile, Stroessner in Paraguay, etc. That's a fact.

2.- There is no Oligarchy in South America any more, there are rich and Poor as in any country in the world.

3.- I don't work for the establishment, as a matter of fact I'm working for my own because I was asked to resign because I refused to do some illegal movements to fire 500 employees.

4.- Communism is not the sharing of wealth, it's the sharing of poverty. Communism failed in almost every country by it's own contradictions.

5.- Chavez doesn't have the right to support terrorism in other countries as Fidel Castro did, Shinning Path was trained in Cuba and some Middle East countries.

So Please, don’t believe in fairy stories, it’s all dark obscure, sinister politics, nothing more and a good system of propaganda.

Thanks for your kind words at the end of your post Sean.

Iván

Some facts about Venezuela:

-Chavez government controls both the judicial and electoral powers: in the year 2003, Chavez opponent gathered firms to call a revocatory referendum. 2.4 millions firms where nedded in order to activiate the proccess; the opposition presented about 3 millions, and the electoral power, using techicisims and after-proccess rules, invalidates 1.1 million firms. The opposition should certificates about half million firms in another proccess. Eventually, the referendum was called. All the exits polls given the yes option (against Chavez) as winner, 60/40%. The electronic scrutine, otherwise, inverted that number, and the No option wins... 60/40%. Unfortunatelly, Mr peanut, er, Mr. Carter validates the proccess, even when several international observers claims that the proccess wasn't clean.

-The supreme court has raised his member to 32, and 22 of them are loyal to Chavez.

-The supreme court has raised his member to 32, and 22 of them are loyal to Chavez.

Another classical movement of a Dictator.

In Perú, Alberto Fujimori Fujimori, the Japanese citizen elected President of our country and who closed the Congress (Illegal in our Constitution) and then changed the Constitution to legalize his office and to be re elected once. He was reelected with fraud twice (The loyal Congress made an interpretation saying that he was only elected once with the new Constitution so he could be President once more).

Knowing that the Supreme or Constitutional Court could invalidate this, he added twice the number of Superior Judges with his party members using special powers and promoted them to the Supreme Court and accused two Constitutional Judges of false crimes, so this court couldn'thave a valid session because the Congress (Loyal to Fujimori) never elected those two members.

When the fraud was too evident he took the Presidential plane to Japan and resigned by fax, now the Japanese Government won't give extradition because he's officially Japanese, and the Mother Fu**er has a web page where he announces he's going to be candidate in the next elections, even when he is not Peruvian and when INTERPOL has a warrant in all the world (Except Japan of course) for crimes against humanity.

Our third world is Fantasy Land, anything can happen.

Iván

PS: Hey Mirco, never saw a referendum where the vote in favour of the Dictator  was the NO, was the question a complex formula?

Hi Ivan & Mirco,

My trip to the Andean mountain range was twenty three years ago , I spent two months and had hoped to go all the way to Tierra Del Fuego, but smoked too much and never got pass Santiago. We often slept in the back of our Ford Bronco but often spent the night with peasants(peons) or Quechua Indians who could speak approximative spanish (mine was not any less and is nowadays non-existant) but shared the few potatoes (sometimes softened by being trampled underfoot by the housewive/mother) they had for supper and went to hotels mostly for sanitary reasons (Warm shower to take the crud off our skin) in the Altiplano (we stayed there for more than a week to watch the stars in broad daylight). I think that in some twenty years, things have not changed much for most of our hosts. And I personally love that fantasic continent and always paied close attention to what happened to it.

Of course , my opinion is through international press (aside from my own previous experience) but that very same press has always hit on Chavez as unclear of his intentions, but I also believe that a problem can be seen differently from farther away (in French we call that "le recul nécéssaire")to see the whole picture. It may come down to dirty politics being from the extreme right or the extreme left  or even extreme conservatism (so-called centrism) being in power, I think you got that right . If the oil was to become nationalized in Venezuela (such as Iran or Saudi Arabia in the 70's) , theoretically this should benefit the state and therefore the citizens. And for the fact that oligarchy not existing (in Perú maybe ) but in Venezuela , it does but is not dressed as Saudi (OPEP).

Allowing foreign compagnies to claim and search remind me of those wild goldrushes (such as the Klondike in Yukon) and it is clear that those that got rich were not those digging the nuggets out but the leaches (bloodsuckers) waiting for them outside their rabbitholes - they call that free-enterprize. Again the so-called Law Of Nature mentioned by a filthy rich Columbian.

I think that Chavez, being a military man should be put aside for a while because he does not have the army on his side (for now) , seems to be the popular choice and was elected from one of the cleaner elections ever on S A continent (so said UN observers) and so far comparing him to a dictator is downright unfair. Because it is the rich (downright doing civil disobedience and calling the US for help) who feel robbed from the power they feel inherited , are pushing to dismiss Chavez, they are pushing him towards some kind of non-aligned state (to which Castro is applausing) and apart from small incidents , in other countries the govt in place would have created bloodshed. In Nicaragua, the Sandinistas, who kicked out the yucky Somoza, were pushed towards communists because of the US attitude (There is a fairly real movie with Nick Nolte on this - I forget the name) and if-you-are-not-on-our-side attitude then..... Just like for the Battista regime in Cuba.

On Communism: Of couse it does not work! But it starts from a generous frame of mind (sharing the wealth ) but has always denied one basic human character trait: individuality (or How to show your neighbour you are better, stronger, more sex appealing -thru money - than him by buying a bigger car , a pool , a sauna etc....). We in Europe saw the birth of communism , and I would hate it to come into power through democratic rules. But to stop people from that extreme, if we were to make sure that the poor at least saw some hopes for their children to a way out of Favellas , by having a chance to climb the social ladder , become a bit more economically affluent and they will become citizens instead of some sort of untouchable cast such as in India. This is especially true for all native americans. In Europe , although a tyrant , Castro is fairly admired for his capacity to tell the US to piss off for the last 50 years with the means of a Banana Republic (Dole , Chiquita or the mexican Del Monte?), but where life expectancy is among the best (no Mc Donald to clogg your arteries), an excellent medecine package and 99.9 % literacy rate. Even Belgium or the US cannot compete in that last category.

Peace

Hugues Chantraine ( pronouced Sean Trane)

Sean Trane: When comes to talk about politics, it's easy to lose the temper and to fall into personal disqualifications, I hope that it doesn't happen among us. Said so, I have to tell you this: maybe, observing the venezuelan situation thru a microscope glass, as a curious social phenomena, seems that Chavez is a liberator kind of leader, which strieves for the poors and fights the imperium. But when you lives in Venezuela, as member of a medium class that is pushed down everyday, with the labour sources getting thinner and thinner, when you see that your kids' education begins to be totally controlled by the government ideology, when the TV, radio and even internet are being regulated by a stress press law, by which the tv plant can be closed if anybody says something that the goverment doesn't like , then you will be concerned about your future in your own country. And is very disconforting to see that people in Europe, with great life standars, people who doesn't know what hungry, bad social services, seggregation if you are against the government and total anarchy are, simphatizes with the Chavez government.  

ps: by the way, I didn't know that you are the same Chantrain that has such  good album reviews. Good work!

Syzygy wrote:  any good links to non patisan articles that could throw some light on it all?

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/10725361.htm?1c - http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/10725361.h tm?1c

Mirco,

Thanks for the kind words regarding the reviews.

Hey I am the first one complaining about people arguing about politics , but in this case you opened a thread regarding the difficult situation in your country . Please do not believe that everything is good in Europe - There are hungry people too and in winter time (it is -5 Celsius as I write) some people die frozen before being hungry - we are regularly flooded with refugees that think this is like a dream and even though our collective gov'ts send out messages to potential illegal immigrants , but those refuse to believe and risk their lives to end up in the slums that they contribute to create.

You were asking to see if the infinite minority of progheads on this site knew what happened in your country and then you end up not agreeing with the opinions you sought. Listening to an educated venezuelian middle-class citizen about Chavez is like naming a Flemish judge to a case tearing Belgium apart: the French-speaking minority being denied their rights in their own language just outside Brussels and ask him to be fair - not very likely. I may explain you this in a longer private mail if you wish, but it is as long and as complex as the Chavez stuff and may explode our country in the following months because the rich Flemish abuse their majority to get rid of the poorer (only in the last 50 years because it was the opposite for the first 150 years) Wallon side . The fact is that money is spoiling everything and the more one has the more he wants and the oligarchy is exactly that: Greedy and ready to lie to get their point across - for example Chavez supporting terrorim , not one intelligent journalist would report such unsubstanciated nonsense. As far as we can read (International Herald Tribune , Le Monde , El Mundo), it is the oligarchy that choose to sabotage and go on strike and undermine the economy , because they are asked to share less than 10% of the wealth.... Who is hurting the country, now? I am not a  Chavez supporter but it seems that so far he is credible (fairy tale said Ivan ) and sincere about his political goals and wishes to includes the vast forgotten majority.

I will maybe stop after this post because this might get too heated but would like to thank you for discussing this subject.

Peace. Your country left me quite an impression and maybe someday.....

Sean Trane wrote: for example Chavez supporting terrorim , not one intelligent journalist would report such unsubstanciated nonsense. As far as we can read (International Herald Tribune , Le Monde , El Mundo), it is the oligarchy that choose to sabotage and go on strike and undermine the economy , because they are asked to share less than 10% of the wealth....

And about the strike, let me tell you that I'm not an oligarc, nobody in my family are oligarc, and we all adhered to the general strike, which purpouse was to force Chavez either to resign or go to a refrendary proccess. You may not know that as a result of the strike, 20.000 persons who worked on the oil state industry, PDVSA (about half of the payroll), were fired and now barely survives.

Well, I think that you have made yor mind about this subject and my intention is not to change it, but those are the things that we have to deal with.

There's a popular saying here in Perú, "The bulls seem smaller from the tribune"

It's hard to give an opinion from Belgium, when you are not used tho this kind of things, history is taught in the schools but the human being learns more from the direct experience and we have experience in this issues.

All Latin American citizens have seen hundreeds of this so called Messiah that want to save us from the terrible monster called USA (By the way, I'm being sarcastic), and 99% of them have a hidden agenda.

When they reach the´power they try to be accepted by USA Government, and when this doesn't happen because FBI or CIA know what really happens they want to place the pressure in USA saying they are going to join Fidel Castro.

And about Fidel Castro, How can you admire a guy who sends to prison any person that doesn't believe in the failed revolution. I been in Cuba, went to expend a vacation in Varadero (A paradise different from the rest of Cuba, full of beautiful people and a place where the official currency is the dollar that Fidel so hardly combats).

A friend of mine gave me US$ 5,000,00 to take them to her sister, so I rent a scooter and went to her house and saw how they live, mom dad, three sons, grandpa all in a two bedroom house.

In Varadero the girl that cleans my bathroom is a medical doctor, the guy who cleans the pool is an engineer, so they all have studies but it's worth nothing, they all recieve 140 pesos (Currency not accepted in the stores) the change is 20 pesos for dollar, so they have to live with US$ 7.00 a month.

This people work in the hotels because they don' have to spend money in eating, but this is not the common cuban. Ask the poet Valladares who spent 50% of his life in prison his opinion about Fidel.

But Mr. Castro has enough money to train terrorists from all Latin America even when his people is starving. Extreamely beautiful  women offer themselves for 20 bucks and ask you to marry them (by contract) so they can leave the island. Is this the paradise?

Please Sean don't be fooled by the propaganda of this guys, one thing is to read it and another iis to live it.

Iván

I would say Mirco , that for me ,(an outsider) it is too soon to call this guy a dictator and a leftist (for now he is a populist).

 Not forgetting that in 88 , Pinochet organized a referendum (monitored by the UN who said that there was no cheating) to see if he should go or stay and an amazing 45% of the people said yes to him against a narrow majority wanting him to leave...... Most leftist journalists yelled that the results had been altered to minimize his loss because they could not believe such an Ugly and bloodshed dictator still managed 45%. And he left...... All he got is a maybe-trial to come in the following months if the judges do not pay attention to the illness-comedy plot that got him out of UK a few years back..... Sad , So saad. How's that for a dictatorship....

The situation in Colombia is totally different and hopeless and I have no sympathy for the FARC or Gov't Forces or the drugs cartel. A guerilla can be legitimous (Reagan and his contras were not really clean IMO) if fighting a dictatorship (see the Burmese example).

Thank you for shed a new light on what happens in Venezuela and your opinions , I will take in account when I read more newspapers.... So Be It....

Hi Ivan,

I am not fooled by the propaganda be it from the master of boring speahes (I think Fidel's record is twelve hours in a pouring rain with a big part of the crowd forbidden to leave) or more subliminal coming from Uncle Sam (I think the US Secret Services - no names - will be knocking on my door within a few hours now). I do not admire Castro per se (he is a bloody dictator), but am awed at his persistence and resistance with such poor means. That Cuba provides military assistance to revolutionary gov'ts is no secret but feeding money to mad dogs terrorist is worthy of Cold War Uncle Sam propaganda - there is simply not enough money in Cuba.

Ivan: I agree with most of your last post even the first sentence about an opinion from Belgium, I had said in the previous post that I considered myself as an outsider, only moderatley apt at giving an opinion in a prog forum. And when I do (after being asked to), the people concerned tell me it's not valid.... well at least you had one member who has an idea (albeit deformed if you wish) of what goes on in that fabulous continent of yours.

Colombia: the only politician I have any sympathy was that bloody naive (to the idiotic sense) Ingrid De Bettencourt , but she was cast aside by her stupidity: she thought that Guerilla would not touch them like journalists in Bagdad or that priest , hostage for four years in the 80's in Lebanon. How beautifully naive....and incredibly stupid...

Mirco: one more thing, those strikes were organized as a blackmail, not even hurting the oligarchy - maybe they lost a bit of cash (cigar money for them - and probably Cubans on top of it - ooops) and they hurt the country, but really who go hurt? The people like you (small middle class guys , caught between the Hammer and the Anvil - now that must be fun ) and then they say it is Chavez's fault....... sounds fishy to me , man. Cheer up man , somehow I am on your side for hope of better human condition but that does includes the Jivaros people and related tribes also - yes they exist. I really deeply grieve for South America..

ivan_2068 wrote: put 'no idea', despite knowing something about the situation. On the one hand it appears that Chavez, whatever you may say about him, is the democratic choice of the people of Venezuela. Please SZYGY, you live happy and comfortable in a Monarchy with a Parliamentary system that works perfectly, you know nothing about South American reality.

Completely true, Ivan, and if you read the rest of my post I confess to my ignorance and ask for some clarification. Whilst I would agree that, compared to many parts of the world, life in Britain is safe and comfortable, I think it's a bit an overstatement to say that our system works perfectly.

Many thanks for the link Mirco, things are a bit hectic for me now but I'll read it in depth sometime soon and hopefully I'll be a bit clearer about the situation.

"During his visit to La Guacamaya. governor LFAC announced the expropiation of Polar beer manufacturer deposits".

If anybody have a doubt about the political inclination of the goverment, see this picture: the guy is the governor of Carabobo state, a former general loyal to Chavez, who wins a doubt election. The t-shirt he's wearing is a sort of uniform: the simbolism is obvious, the red hat, Che Guevara picture.