DREDG: prog or not prog?
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Topic: DREDG: prog or not prog?
Posted By: Maverick
Subject: DREDG: prog or not prog?
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 13:15
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I found out about this band not so long ago. I've all of their albums. The only album I don't like is 'Catch Without Arms' because of delay-overuse on all the songs.
I can't make up the word to describe Dredg's genre, but I think it's PROG indeed. 'El Cielo' is pure prog, I think. 'Leitmotif' sounds good, but there are some moments with ugly vocals. All in all, Dredg's music is great. Your opinions about DREDG? ------------- In PROG We Trust |
Replies:
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 13:17
| I got Catch Without Arms a while ago. It's pretty good, but not my cup of tea. They have progressive tendencies, though. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 14:01
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I would call them Alternative emo prog, though I havent heard all their albums
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 14:18
| I have only heard Leitmotif so far, but it's a good album and I do consider it Prog. |
Posted By: Maverick
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 14:21
Emo? Yeah, maybe 'Catch Without Arms' is a bit emo. Then, 'Leitmotif' is a bit alternative and 'El Cielo' is in the middle of those two genres. All together = prog.  ------------- In PROG We Trust |
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 14:40
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One of these days I'm going to have to check out el cielo. I have catch without arms and it's kind of "ok but not great".
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 14:43
Heard them all and basically I agree with you - alternative emo with prog tendencies. ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
el bцthy wrote:Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 14:52
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I have their debut, Leitmotif. It's good... sort of proggy sort of indie/hard rockish. I'd like to check out their later output soon. ------------- 
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Posted By: Heff
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 14:53
| If Porcupine Tree, Radiohead and Muse are considered prog, then I see no reason why Dredg shouldn't be. |
Posted By: Heptade
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 15:10
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El Cielo was pretty modern proggy in the Radioheadish sense, I thought. Catch Without Arms isn't at all, though I do enjoy it. Sounds like modern rock album based around a love of delay to me. If that's prog, then the Deftones, Catherine Wheel, Hum and even some U2 songs are prog too. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. ------------- The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning And all the rest is just bullsh*t -Steve Kilbey |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 15:19
| although I enjoyed El Cielo, I don't consider Dredg prog at all. Just very heroic rock. Most bands like to experiment a little bit now and then, and El Cielo had some interesting composition on it, but if you start equating that to prog then the classification becomes useless - every band develops their sound apartfromRammstein. I'm somewhat against Radiohead, Tool and Muse being referred to as prog but I'll admit they're a cut above most modern rock acts, so if you consider these intelligent rock acts to be progressive then Dredg fits in amongst them. |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 15:35
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Their a bit borderline prog often close to alternative rock as well, but many of the "new prog" bands are in the same style as Dredg. Two examples that pop into my mind are Oceansize and Pure Reason Revolution. If neo prog was the prog of the 80's and retro prog and prog metal were the prog of the 90's then I believe this more mainstream-ish prog will be the one for the 00's. NWOPR? ------------- 
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 18:11
| Other than Catch Without Arms, they are surely a prog band. Catch Witout Arms is considerably more straightforward, though not bad. They are by no means an emo band though, as some of you are saying. |
Posted By: mina
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 18:20
i agree with this, although i've never heard muse labeled prog. and who said dredg is emo?  |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 19:02
The only album I own by them, Catch without Arms, is apparently not as proggy as their earlier work, yet I think even that album is at least prog-related, and pure masterliness!  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: ResidentAlien
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 19:04
| I'm listening to Orph right now. It's my second favorite by Dredg. A close-second to El Cielo. Orph is as best as I can describe it... Progressive Screamo. One of the best damned EPs ever. I love this disc. |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 20:12
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They are absolutely prog and excellent at that. El Cielo is one of modern art rock's finest albums, Leitmotif is also a very progressive album which wanders into RIO/Avant. If all of their albums were like Catch Without Arms, they'd be prog-related, but still not entirely non-prog. It's still a very enjoyable album though. I hope with the next album they go back to the earlier sound. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 20:13
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emo = prog? Thats HIGH LARRYIOUS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! but anyways... ------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 20:16
I think it's pretty weak actually, and not very progressive at all...  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 20:17
Are you implying that Dredg are emo?  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 20:46
No, infact im referencing what someone said before about somewhere between alternative and emo they are prog Its mockery, dont take it seriously ------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: ResidentAlien
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 21:16
That was my initial assessment as well. And I know many people feel the same way. It took several listens before I started to even like it at all. But yeah... give it a few more spins... there's more to it then first appears I think. |
Posted By: Maverick
Date Posted: December 15 2006 at 14:08
Yes, I have Orph in my collection too, but it's no prog at all. I hate those screaming vocals! Well...I think, Dredg started their career as alternative band, then they moved into alternative/prog sound, then they reach a high prog level (El Cielo as an example), but now they're playing prog with emo influence. Just listen to Catch Without Arms. It's not so prog as El Cielo and even Leitmotif. I hope that Dredg will return to their more-prog sound.:-) ------------- In PROG We Trust |
Posted By: Benjamin_Breeg
Date Posted: December 15 2006 at 15:13
hahahahaha that was the dumbest thing i saw in this forum x)  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Dream_Thief_/?chartstyle=Geldropdown2"> 
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Posted By: Maverick
Date Posted: December 16 2006 at 14:58
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Benjamin_Breeg,
well, maybe. My English is far from fluent, that's why some of my posts might seem dumb to you. ------------- In PROG We Trust |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 16 2006 at 16:28
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Don't insult other members please, BB. |
Posted By: Tristan Mulders
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 17:01
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I don't care as long as people get in touch with their music! And for the record, I actually prefer 'Catch without Arms' to their other albums, mainly because it's really catchy, but all their albums have some great tunes included! ------------- Interested in my reviews? You can find them http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=784 - HERE "...He will search until He's found a Way to take the Days..." |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 17:13
Ahh, ok then  They do have alternative in their sound, but no traces emo . ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 17:51
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Oh please, I agree Dredg is not purely EMO, but it's a hybrid between Grunge, alternative and...oh surpride, their hardcore sound is also characteristic of EMO.
They remind me a bit od System of a Down meets Nirvana, meets Coldplay, but less commercial, I see no Prog connection.
Songs from "El Cielo"
And the rest of the album is the same, monotone tracks with almost no variations, a voice that reminds the most depressive Kurt Cobain, nothing Prog in El Cielo. Now Leimotiff:
Didn't asked my cousin to lend me Catch without Arms because for what I read is tgheir most mainstream album. I see no justification to include them.
Welcome Heff, but I must tell you something being you new in PA.
The "If X is here, why not Y" argument, is not valid, we qualify, accept or reject bands for their own merits, not because another one that we believe is less Proggy is here.
Cheers
Iván ------------- 
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) it's only Indie with a touch of Enigma, but still boring.Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 18:00
| Prog today doesn't have to sound like it did in the 70's. Keep that in mind. |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 18:03
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Dredg is really progressive. Phileas makes a good point that modern progressive and classic progressive are not the same. Dredg is not emo, they've been placed as art rock, let's leave it at that.
As a side note, they have probably the best vocalist -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 18:04
That hurt, Ivan SOAD don't play emo, they're alternative/nu metal and I hate them but Dredg are one of my favorite bands. I see nothing emo about Triangle or any other of their songs whatsoever. "Dredg is a band with a completely unique sound. They transcend many genres with their art-rock styles and manage to be one of the deepest and most talented modern progressive bands today. I recommend them to anyone looking for a rebirth in great progressive music." That sums it up well... If you don;t like them, fine, but emo is an insult. You're not suggesting I listen to emo do you? And Catch Without Arms is pure beauty, mainstream or not. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 18:16
I never said they were bad or pure EMO, they share a lot of influences being EMO one of them IMHO.
Mainly they are Alternative IMHO and see no Art Rock in them but yes, I feel SOAD influence but softened by their Indie/Alternative sound, despite it's softer they have some clear hard SOAD explosions.
)I heard both albums because my cousin (He's 20 and likes some Prog) called me saying he had found a new Prog band, he lent me this two albums, and listened them from start to end (With him at my side inquiring every 5 minutes), had to tell him that honestly I see no Prog at all, not 70's, 80's, 90's or 2000's style of Prog.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 18:39
...matter of taste I guess ...I personally agree with what Bryan said in the bio. Modern prog has so many different faces, from Tool to TMV to Taal to GYBE!... I noticed some people fall in love with Dredg and others find them boring and not prog, they're a love or hate kind of band. The influences are there but used in a good way IMO. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 18:41
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I personally can't stand this band; just because many of you like this band does not mean its prog, and if we accept this band, then we might as well accept any alt/indie/grunge/emo/whaterver band that uses the occasional strange song title and long song with a large dose of non-commercialism and weirdness. Modern prog sounds something like Radiohead, something like The Mars Volta, something like Deluge Grander. As far as I'm concerned, Dredg just mixes together several non-progressive genres to create something (gasp) non-progressive. ------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 18:42
| ^Just because you dislike this band does not mean it isn't Prog. |
Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 19:03
You must not have read past the first line in my post. I am merely trying to give the fans of this band some perspective, because they seem to be trying to validate their love for this band by claiming it as progressive rock, which it is not by any definition i have heard, if truth be told, i would classify their interpretation of influences as regressive rock. I have no problem with people liking this band, but they should stop trying to push this on other people as prog; for instance, i would not give anything by this band to a newcomer to prog, because they would obviously form false conceptions about the genre. If you really want to call this prog, go ahead, but don't think that doing so will gain them any more artistic respect acceptance. ------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: SolariS
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 19:04
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I've only heard "Catch Without Arms". It sounded very bland, unimaginative and repetitive to me. I don't think that album could be considered prog, and it's the last album of theirs I will buy.
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 19:29
The fact that they are included on this site in the Art Rock category (meaning they are considered a Prog band) remains. |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 19:33
They are prog by definition. "Dredg is a band with a completely unique sound. They transcend many genres with their art-rock styles and manage to be one of the deepest and most talented modern progressive bands today. I recommend them to anyone looking for a rebirth in great progressive music" ^I agree 100% with that statement, Dredg play very unique and interesting music that's actually progressive unlike all the modern symphonic bands that live in the 70's. Bu PA definition:
So are they prog? Hell yes. Do you have to like them? No. 5 out of 8 collabs who reviewed it rated El Cielo 5 stars, gotta be something prog about them ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 19:35
I suggest you gie Leitmotif and El Cielo a try, CwA is their most mainstream work and their weakest album ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: KeyserSoze
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 19:39
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"El Cielo" is an awesome album and really I don't care if Dredg are prog or not (they sure ARE progressive, if not PROGROCK). "Catch Without Arms" is a little dissapointment for me as it's different than "El Cielo". Anyway, I don't agree with some opinions above - you can't judge them after one listening (for this they're too difficult to get into) and their addition to this site was a good step because their music may address many progrock fans as it did for me. Thanks to Progarchives I found one of the most interesting bands of these days. I'm over 30 years old, so we can exclude the theory that it's music for teenagers or "musically unexperienced" people as someone here suggested. It's all about a willingness to accept new trends and not stand still in 70's. That's my opinion. Period.
The Miracle: Thanks for the nice post. I can't agree more! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/mhron/?chartstyle=artists" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 18 2006 at 02:43
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 18 2006 at 02:54
I've been thinking about that too, Ivan. Now that you've said it outloud I think that's correct; U2 are not progressive rock. But man, were they progressive for a pop band, the most we'd seen in years, much more than the Police or any of the early neo stuff. |
Posted By: Maverick
Date Posted: December 18 2006 at 07:17
THAT'S RIGHT.
Some people have problem with it - they want to hear the 70's influences in modern progressive rock bands, but... is it really progressive when you repeat something that Genesis, Yes or KC had done yet??? Why modern prog bands must sound like 70's prog bands??? That's the question. For example, I like Dredg, Oceansize. They are PROGRESSIVE for sure! I like them because they bring to music something NEW. And I hate Genesis or Yes-clones, just because when I'm listening to them, I say: "Heh...I've already heard tis somewhere..." And it kills me. I love Genesis, Yes, KC, they are fathers of prog, they are Gods for me. Yeah. Some people deny modern prog rock, just because they think they hear SOAD or other crap influences in it. They are frightened of hearing SOMETHING NEW in music. Modern prog bands stay close to 70's prog rock, but at the same time they try to add other influences in their music. Prog will never die, and I'm happy that NOW we have such bands like Dredg or Oceansize. Maybe my post is a total mess. Sorry, my English is bad. ------------- In PROG We Trust |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 18 2006 at 12:36
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Maverick wrote:
Some people have problem with it - they want to hear the 70's influences in modern progressive rock bands, but... is it really progressive when you repeat something that Genesis, Yes or KC had done yet??? Why modern prog bands must sound like 70's prog bands??? That's the question. Some people are so desperate to say their part that they don’t read previous posts before witting what they want. I answer this post because it’s clearly directed to my previous posts without having read all of them. I clearly said that I don’t care if Prog sounds like the 70’s or 2000’s, if you check you will find Bryan and myself were the ones who pushed and made possible the addition of FANTOMAS, I personally added OSIBISA and MIRANDA SEX GARDEN others that doesn’t sound at all like the 70’s Prog, already have ready the addition of Mediaeval Baebes for Folk with whom I believe Sean agrees, so it’s not a problem of sounding like the 70’s, it’s a problem of being or not being Prog, that’s all. Third and most important, Progressive Rock is a genre, not an attribute of music, it doesn’t necessarily have to progress, change or evolve, if the characteristics are present and they are inspired in Genesis or ELP, they are still Progressive Rock. Nobody wants clones, but playing in a style is not cloning, for example ANGLAGARD played in the 70’s style and was absolutely original, I have all their albums but I don’t own one by STARCASTLE because I couldn’t care less for cloning bands, my opinion about most tributes is also clear. Don’t call SOAD crap if you want your taste respected, I don’t like their music personally, but they have been inducted several times and it’s obvious some members like them, if I said Dredg has some SOAD influences is because I honestly believe they have SOAD influences, but even you must accept they are mainly an alternative Indie band, and I don’t believe that’s Progressive Rock, in that case we should add REM who were much more original, used mandolins and had dramatic changes. Dredg is linear, flat, their songs have all the same mood and practically the same sound, there’s no versatility, variations, they are not a bad Alternative/Indie with a bit of EMOP band but being good is not a synonymous of being Prog. And about your phrase: “Modern prog bands stay close to 70's prog rock, but at the same time they try to add other influences in their music.” Dredg has nothing in common with the 70’s, they have more (Not that this is a requisite) but they are closer to Cobain’s Nirvana, REM or Coldplay than to anything else. Prog has survived Disco, Punk, New Wave, New Age and a lot of more popular musical genres because they kept a safe distance from mainstream, a cult or semi underground genre that blends with mainstream looses the real fans and doesn’t gather new fans from the mainstream scenario, so if you want to destroy Prog’s identity, then go on and add every mainstream alternative Indie band because you like them. Our generation never succeeded making Prog popular, but we managed to keep the genre alive when all the critics were asking us to bury it and at the end we survived Punk that appeared trying to destroy Prog. No, it’s coherent but still I disagree with it. Not bad. Iván |
Posted By: Maverick
Date Posted: December 18 2006 at 13:03
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Ivan_Melgar_M:
Well. Of course, somebody likes modern prog groups, but another dislikes them. Nowadays, we have many prog groups. Some of us THINK they are progressive, but other DON'T THINK they are progressive. For me Oceansize and Dredg are progressive, for you - other groups are progressive. It's the matter of taste.
------------- In PROG We Trust |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 18 2006 at 13:51
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Posted By: Voyage_34
Date Posted: December 18 2006 at 13:51
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I think dredg started out as quite prog, leitmotif feels very progressive to me in that it all flows together as one piece of art instead of just a collection of songs put together. El cielo a little less so, and catch without arms not at all. Still, catch without arms is my favourite album by them. Almost every single song is a masterpiece and there are a couple that I would class as some of the beautiful songs I've ever heard. But I think they've strayed from prog. And it works for them. Can't wait to hear the new album. ------------- Ok what's next? After the sex? |
Posted By: Maverick
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 10:28
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Ivan_Melgar_M,
are you saying about the prog's death? Do you think that prog is already dead, because there are MANY people listen to modern prog bands like Muse, Coheed And Cambria and progressive rock becomes more and more popular? Do you think that the groups above are mainstream? ------------- In PROG We Trust |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 11:18
Maverick, did you read my post?
I said:
I'm talking in a conditional futuire, if we let Prog blend with mainstream, will loose identity and most surely die.
Never mentioned Muse or Cheed and Cambria, I talk about speciffic bands in specific posts.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 15:05
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Ivan, all I'm going to say is that I don't particularily care for how any time you disagree with somebody on whether a band could be considered prog or not, you immediately accuse them of only wanting to consider that band as such because they like them. There are TONS of prog bands I don't like, it's not an "honour" for me to view Dredg, Radiohead and so on listed as prog... I simply think they are, and since both are listed on the site apparently somebody out there agrees with me. I adore the band Kamelot, for instance, but by no stretch do I think that they deserve to be listed on PA (which they are, go figure). As for why I consider Dredg prog, we went through this exact debate way back in the days of Radiohead's inclusion and I know from experience that it won't reach any viable conclusion... some of us feel that prog is taking on a new form through these bands, some of us don't feel that it has anything to do with what they consider prog, that's pretty much that. |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 19:33
threads like this make my head explode.  Seriously people, there ARE different definitions of what constitutes progressive music, but I think what it boils down to is how you view the term "prog" itself. 1) You think "prog" is a title of honor to be bestowed only on bands that carry on the "ideals" of the 70's movement (and by ideals, here I mean they carry on the same sound that was created almost 40 years ago). To consider so many modern bands as "prog" is to dilute the title and make it lose meaning. 2) You think "prog" is an attitude and progression is only one attribute of music among many. You view PA as a music information database that is useful for linking the interests of people worldwide who are interested in progressive music. To call a band "prog" is to say that many people who listen to other progressive rock would likely enjoy the band, not to give them a special gold star. Anyway, there are of course shades of gray, but these are the two main camps as I see them. Maybe one day we can all get along?  PS dredg are NOT emo! just because the singer has an emotive voice does not mean they are part of the movement of popularized emotional hardcore/punk.------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 19:49
Yay, the saviors have come!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 19:52
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ooh, nice and quite true rant. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 19:53
Yes -- probably one or the other.... ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 19:55
I'm not sure whether to call that ambivalent or not ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 21:04
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Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 04:06
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I'm not saying that you aren't allowed to not consider Dredg prog, I'm just growing more and more frustrated with how you consistently look down upon those who feel differently. I don't care if Dredg are listed on PA or not, I think they're an outstanding band and I do consider them to be a progressive rock band, but all I care about is that their music is good... I listen to tons of non-prog, it's not like I somehow feel the need to vindicate the bands I like by having them all listed on this site, and I really wish you would stop accusing me (and the rest of us) of doing so. As for why I think Dredg are prog, my view on it is pretty much something that you'll immediately dismiss given that you're a lawyer and hard evidence is the only way to hold a debate like this for you... it's true that if you break down the individual songs on El Cielo a lot of them are pretty straightforward, but the same thing could be said of Dark Side of the Moon (an album I think is quite comparable to this one). The way that the whole thing flows and connects together, sort of gradually building in emotional intensity with each passing song until climaxing at the end gives it the feel of being one complete piece with different parts. Sure there are no mellotrons or 5 minute hammond solos, but as an album it just screams "prog!" to my ears. Feel free to further ridicule me for using a defense like that, but there's no jury here to decide that your argument is stronger than mine Ivan... I (and many others on here) feel that way about this band, and no amount of dissecting each individual segment of their material is going to change that. Sorry. |
Posted By: KeyserSoze
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 19:23
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Amen to that. Thanks Bryan, English isn't my native language as for you and that's the way I would say it natively. Dredg are great.
Just one question regarding this band, respectively spelling of the band's name. Do you pronounce that "g" at the end like "g" in ie. "badge" or "g" like in ie. "gift"? Or do you just leave it out in the pronounciation? Sorry, maybe it's a silly question but I would just know it right and it's a very confusing word since it's so special. Thanks. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/mhron/?chartstyle=artists" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 19:31
Keyser, it's pronounced like the word "dredge", rhyming with "badge" to you Bryan... impossible to explain, isn't it? You have to feel the prog in them. "This world is a comedy to those that think; a tragedy to those that feel" El Cielo is indeed somewhat similar to DSOTM. There are even rumors that El Cielo syncs with some movie Anyway, magnificent album by a magnificent band, enjoy(or not...) BTW Ivan, if Rush can be in the same genre as KC, Mike Oldfield and TMV means that Dredg can be next to Gentle Giant as well, that genre is diverse enough. Once again it's a matter of taste, I personally like Dredg more. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 21:17
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Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 21:35
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Sigh... At no point did I say you have to bow to my opinion. In fact, the first line of my previous post was "I'm not saying that you aren't allowed to not consider Dredg prog". All I'm saying is that I wish you would be a little more respectful of those of us who do and not adress us as though we're WRONG. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 21:43
Just in case somebody believ4es my opiniojn could have been offensive, I copied my first post:
I have given opinions non stronger than what is said about 100% Prog bands listed here (Just read what is said about ELP or Dream Theater and how some members were insulted for adding Iron Maiden) and have been absolutely careful with offending any member.
I didn't even knew they were already here, if not, I would not wasted my trime because the policy of the site (Which I respect and support 100%) is that if a band is already here can't be moved.
It's clear I insulted no member or was offensive with them.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 21:46
I didn't said you're wrong, I gave MY OPINION that can be different to yours.
I have read less aggressive responses against posts saying "all who believe this album is prog are stupid", something I have never done and never will do.
All my argument is sumarized in one phrase I wrote in my initial post:
I see no justification to include them.
It's clear I'm giving my personal opoinion of what I see.
Iván
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 03:23
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Seriously, I don't see any reason for anyone to get so worked up. The debate could go on forever, why don't everyone just accept the fact that people can't always agree? |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 10:41
Agree with you 100%, but I don't like being accused of being arrogant or offending somebody just because I believe a band is not Prog.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Harkmark
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 12:41
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Quote Ivan...
[/quote] I didn't even knew they were already here, if not, I would not wasted my trime because the policy of the site (Which I respect and support 100%) is that if a band is already here can't be moved.
Oh really??? Then what about Labradford, Den Fule and Hedningarna (and a couple of other Swedish neo-folk bands, if I remember right) ??? The policy obviously is open to modifications... (At least Labradford and Den Fule deserved to be on this site IMO. Labradford in postrock or progressive electronic and Den Fule in prog folk) As for the few dredg songs I have heard, I did not think of it as prog. The mp3 on this site almost sounds like a mix between Fugazi and Red Hot Chili Peppers IMO. The songs I have heard from their latest album sounded quite a bit like A-ha... Indie rock, but I have not yet heard enough to have a fully qualified opinion. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 13:30
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Posted By: KeyserSoze
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 16:47
Thanks
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/mhron/?chartstyle=artists" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Crushed Aria
Date Posted: December 23 2006 at 14:25
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I think this is where I mention that "progressive" and "prog" need to be differentiated from, and that anyone who calls dredg emo has absolutely no idea as to what they're talking about. Emo =/= FOB-esque pop-rock Emo = Rites of Spring styled emotive hardcore ------------- 
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 23 2006 at 16:50
I'll have to applaud you here! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 23 2006 at 20:39
Crushed Aria wrote:
Nobody has said Dredg is a pure EMO band, not even mainly EMO, SCREAMO, Emotional Hardcore or how ever you want to call them, I believe that all those who don't believe Dredg is Prog have said that it's mainly Alternative/Indie, with some moments or explotions similar to EMO.
Most people here knows more than you believe Crushed Aria and rarely speak about something they don't have idea about.
BTW, the terms Prog as an abreviation for the genre called Progressive Rock and progressive as an adjective that describes a more elaborate or advanced approach to music than normal mainstream is clearly different, we've been talking about this two terms since Prog Archives was founded.
Iván
EDIT: Both Alternative and EMO have their roots in the late 70's Punk, so why shouldn't they have some crossover points despite the different evolution they have suffered?
BTW: Most of the EMO sites consider DREDG as Post-EMO-Indie/Rock, if you Google Dredg EMO, you will obtain 112,000 links -------------
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 23 2006 at 22:20
Aside from a couple songs on Leitmotif(Symbol Song and Yatahaze), NOTHING by Dredg is hardcore. El Cielo and Catch Without Arms are pure melodic art rock without s single scream or heavy passage. You *obviously* don't hear the same we hear, you say they are unemotional and dull, I find them extremely varied and emotional, in fact CwA is one of the most beautiful records I've ever heard. Your opinion respected, but you don't seem to get what most of us hear in their music ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 23 2006 at 23:19
Thanks Miracle, you made my whole point, I never said oit was a 100% EMO hardcore band, but did say they had some EMO moments, something you have admited in your last post.
If I'm not wrong, those are the songs I mentioned in my initial post.
Iván
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Posted By: Crushed Aria
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 09:48
Well, I don't expect to know more about prog rock than people here, but I do see alot of unchecked musical stupidity going around here when not in regards to prog rock. -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 10:00
No need to qualify as stupidity member's opinions who disagree with you.
BTW: Why so touchy? Has anybody mentioned or questioned your knowledge?
Iván -------------
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Posted By: toolsofthetrade
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 14:28
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Ivan Melgar whatever, you live in the 70's. You don't exist outside of the 70s. you communicate to the world through a special device that lets you make contact with the modern world. You're an anachronism.
I'm so sick of these `everything in the 70's was so damn magical and brilliant, and everything modern that doesn't try to be close to the edge sucks'. Prog has moved on, evolved, progressed. So should you. *offers a caring hand to the shoulder* ------------- Tool backwards is Loot. Best signature EVAR! Now smell my mattress! |
Posted By: toolsofthetrade
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 14:29
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btw dredg rule. Except catch without arms, which in regards to the original topic, is not prog. Their other two albums are. ------------- Tool backwards is Loot. Best signature EVAR! Now smell my mattress! |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 14:38
Yes, but not all harcore is not emo! Every Meshuggah song is hardcore, but emo? hell naw.Emo is punk, which dredg are not and never were. "Emo is a subgenre of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_punk - hardcore punk music". That's not what Dredg are. Not at all. I admit those songs are hardcore/metalcore, but not emo! Ever heard of this band? http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=2480 - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=2480 All of their music is like that. And they're here as a fully prog band(I like them BTW). ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 14:43
Have you ever checked how many modern bands I have added to this site in your 67 posts as member of his site?
If you're so sick, there are plenty other forums and posters to read, ignore mine as I obviously will ignore your's.
If you're so sick, what have you done to change this? How much time have you gave to this site? How many bands have you added?
No, you simply enjoy the product of the work of anachronic guys who have spent weeks and months for free and for love to this genre, very comfortable position. In this place we respect our right to disagree, when you learn that and improve your communication skills then start giving opinions.
Prog has progressed even when it's not necessary but I still believe Dredg is not Prog despite all the evolution.
Iván Melgar M. (Not whatever) -------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 14:51
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Dear Iván Melgar Whatever I have just read your recent post and I must remark on how much I enjoyed it. Well said sir! Yours blah blah blah Snow Wotsit ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: toolsofthetrade
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:13
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You really shouldn't pay any attention to that. I didn't actually mean any of it, none of it was serious, i just liked the idea of a guy trapped in the 70s communicating to the outside world through a special device.
But still, come on, just read your post on dredg, then look at the bands you've reviewed and more importantly put as 5 fives. Even if you aren't, on a surface level you practically embody the `yes and genesis rule, modern prog sucks coz i'm an angry middle aged guy who can't move on from the golden age' stereotype. so in a way...you're wrong...and i'm the unquestionable master of the universe ------------- Tool backwards is Loot. Best signature EVAR! Now smell my mattress! |
Posted By: toolsofthetrade
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:18
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And my communication skills aren't lacking. I communicated my point perfectly well, yet everyone's here to criticise clayson, who may i add practically never makes a grammar or spelling error, yet all these nitwits stroll around throwing around the seeds of text language and poor spelling in their fields of illiteracy...but no, no one says anything about them, it's always clayson this, clayson that.... I'M SICK OF IT!!!!!!!!!!! ------------- Tool backwards is Loot. Best signature EVAR! Now smell my mattress! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:20
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Posted By: toolsofthetrade
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:23
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wow, pretending to ignore me. It hurts. so deep. ------------- Tool backwards is Loot. Best signature EVAR! Now smell my mattress! |
Posted By: toolsofthetrade
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:26
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i may only have 71 posts to my name but i know an anachronism when i see one... ------------- Tool backwards is Loot. Best signature EVAR! Now smell my mattress! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:38
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Look pal, if you are sick go to a shrink or ignore my old middle age angry posts, I don't write them trying to look cool, I only write what I believe.
But what I don't allow you is to tell me which albums to review and what ratings to give them, that's my decision and only mine.
And yes, I make spelling mistakes because as any decent anachronism I'm used to old typewriters and all those buttons in the keyboard confuse me, but I rather have problems writting than thinking.
Iván
BTW: Who the hell is Clayson? I believe you're obsessed with something, honestly, the shrink will be a good option. -------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:44
He is Clayson! Sounds like he gets told off a lot!  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: toolsofthetrade
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:44
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oh, you must be too wacked on all the drugs and free love with all your hippy friends from the 70s to understand what i'm saying ------------- Tool backwards is Loot. Best signature EVAR! Now smell my mattress! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:46
Yeah, that's the christmas spirit! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: toolsofthetrade
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:47
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oh special collaborators teaming up against the poor commoner, eh? drunk on power are we? with your special collaborator badges and your walky talkys and your free love from the 70s....teaming up against the lowlife, the underling, the `groupie' clayson........ ------------- Tool backwards is Loot. Best signature EVAR! Now smell my mattress! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:47
Hey pal, the hippies are from the late 60's mainly, but if you check my date of birth (And of course if you know how to add), you will notice I was too young even in the 70's to be a hippy.
What happened Clayson (Just found who is Clayson), did Santa missed your house or did you run out of lithium?
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:47
Free love? It certainly is!!!!! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:49
You know yourself pretty well! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: toolsofthetrade
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:50
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hey, i think i know history a little better than you, pal. afterall, i live in the real world, not a little 70's cul de sac in the space time continuum...in some obscure fourth dimension...you're just angry i narked on your stash, aren't you? that i found out about your drugs scandal and your big secret about which dimension you live in ------------- Tool backwards is Loot. Best signature EVAR! Now smell my mattress! |
Posted By: toolsofthetrade
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:53
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...you do know this is all a big joke which doesn't reflect my true opinions whatsoever that started with the ivan melgar whatever post, right? ------------- Tool backwards is Loot. Best signature EVAR! Now smell my mattress! |
Posted By: martinn
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:55
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if you keep on at this speed you will not be a groopie anylonger.. 26 to go! ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:55
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GROOOOOOVY BABE
Give me some of the one you're smoking.
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Posted By: toolsofthetrade
Date Posted: December 24 2006 at 15:55
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WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
time to post more random crap ------------- Tool backwards is Loot. Best signature EVAR! Now smell my mattress! |