Best Home Speakers?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Tech Talk
Forum Description: Discuss musical instruments, equipment, hi-fi, speakers, vinyl, gadgets,etc.
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32033
Printed Date: November 22 2024 at 13:07
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Topic: Best Home Speakers?
Posted By: DallasBryan
Subject: Best Home Speakers?
Date Posted: December 09 2006 at 22:40
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TANNOY.......these are awe inspiring!
WESTMINISTER Royal SE
speakers for the mansion.
 TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
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Replies:
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: December 09 2006 at 22:42
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TANNOY System 1200
these are probably the best value on the market for the money
Studio midfield monitors
http://www.tannoy.com/Default.asp?Id=4319# - TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
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Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: December 09 2006 at 22:52
oops, thought I was in TECH TALK! 
Company Introduction Tannoy is the brand name on many prestigious sound installations throughout the world. Examples include the Hong Kong Convention Centre, the Sydney Opera House, the London Palladium theatre, Coca Cola Headquarters in Atlanta , the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas , the Dolce & Gabbana headquarters in Milan and the Finnish National Theatre. if their good enough for the Sydney Opera House their probably good enough for me!
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Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: December 09 2006 at 23:05
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OWNER’ S MANUAL Estd. 1926 Tannoy - A Short History In the early days of broadcasting radio sets needed both low and high voltage DC power that had to be supplied by batteries. The lead acid batteries used in the radio sets of the time needed regular recharging. In London, in 1926, Guy R. Fountain perfected a new type of electrical rectifier with the aim of designing a charger more suitable for use in the house. His rectifier consisted of two dissimilar metals held in a special electrolyte solution. One metal was Tantalum and the other an alloy of Lead. So successful was this invention that Guy Fountain founded a British Company called Tannoy (a contraction of the words 'Tantalum' and 'Alloy'). Tannoy soon became internationally known and highly regarded in all aspects of sound reproduction. Moving coil loudspeakers with DC energised magnets began Tannoy's continued success in the field of loudspeaker technology. A discrete two-way loudspeaker system followed in 1933 and shortly after a range of microphones and loudspeakers capable of high power handling. Tannoy has always been at the front of the communications revolution, developing its own equipment and production technology. The company built a fund of knowledge and experience, that has proved invaluable in the development of loudspeakers for a truly wide range of applications. The now famous Tannoy Dual Concentric™ principle was created and developed under Guy Fountain's direction around 1950. It is highly regarded by music enthusiasts, and recording and broadcast studios because of its unique properties in faithfully reproducing sound to an unusually high quality standard. Guy Fountain retired from the company in 1974 but the Tannoy company continues his philosophy dedicated to the accurate and realistic reproduction of music for both enthusiasts and professionals around the world. The Tannoy Research and Development unit has further refined the innovative Dual Concentric™ principle. Using the latest design and material technologies, with sophisticated circuit techniques in crossover design, Tannoy has produced a loudspeaker system with superb reproductive capabilities and exceptionally wide dynamic range. Tannoy is now part of the TG Group, whose goal is to design, produce and distribute the best engineered, most recognised and respected brands of high performance audio products in the world. 2 In combining the best of traditional crafts and the latest production and design skills Tannoy presents the Westminster Royal SEloudspeaker. The Westminster Royal SE embodies the Tannoy philosophy. Cabinets in selected hardwoods are hand finished and polished to a standard that is unsurpassed. The Westminster Royal SE offers a compound horn loaded enclosure driven by classic Dual Concentric™ technology. Based around the Alcomax 3 version of the famous 15 inch Tannoy Dual Concentric™ the Westminster Royal SE now features the benefits of signal handling by gold-plated terminals with bi-wire/normal wiring and a hard wired time compensated crossover network. This Alcomax 3 magnet system endows the Dual Concentric™ with an exceptional transient response and increased sensitivity. The massive cabinet design conceals a complex horn loading system that gives greatly increased efficiency and a wavefront area approaching the wavefront area from real instruments. The Westminster Royal SE is effortlessly capable of the realistic reproduction of truly low frequencies and the widest dynamic range. Acrolink 99.9999% (6N) high purity copper wiring is used throughout, together with specially selected crossover components, including Hovland capacitors. High frequency energy can be tailored through high current gold-plated switch blocks with controls for both treble energy and roll off. The specially designed twin-roll impregnated fabric surround used on the drive unit's cone, ensures midrange purity combined with tight, controlled bass. The Low Frequency Section Tannoy Dual Concentric Drive Unit One of the unique advantages of the Tannoy Dual Concentric™ principle is that the low and high frequency sound radiation is generated on the same axis. The high frequency unit is mounted behind, and concentrically with, the low frequency unit. High frequency sound radiates from the centre of the low frequency unit through a carefully designed high frequency exponential horn. Low and high frequencies are therefore fully integrated at source. It is this feature that gives the Dual Concentric™ driver such unique sound reproduction qualities. There are other significant benefits. The high frequency unit does not obstruct the low frequency unit in any way (a unique feature when compared with other so called coaxial systems). Polar dispersion of sound is symmetrical in both horizontal and vertical planes. By careful crossover network design the virtual acoustic sources of the high and low frequency units can be made to occupy the same point on the axis. Therefore the total sound appears to emanate from a single point source located slightly behind the drive unit. This means that a full and accurate stereo image can be recreated by the loudspeakers when fed from a high quality stereo source. The high frequency driver consists of a wide dynamic range compression unit giving superb transient performance with a smooth uncoloured response. The compression unit feeds acoustic power through a multiple phase compensating device to the throat of a solid steel acoustic horn. This horn provides an acoustic impedance transformation to match the compression unit radiation into the listening environment. A magnesium alloy diaphragm formed by a specially developed five-stage process produces a piston with a very high stiffness to mass ratio. Optimum molecular grain structure gives long term durability. A very low mass precision aluminium coil provides the driving force for the diaphragm, with fine multistranded copper lead out wires to ensure reliability. A rear damped acoustic cavity controls the compression driver response and ensures further correct acoustic impedance matching to the horn throat. The response of the compression horn driver extends a full two octaves below the crossover frequency to eliminate colourations that can arise through operation over the fundamental resonance region. The High Frequency Section An Alcomax 3 high energy magnet provides flux generation for both high frequency and low frequency driving motors. Precision air gaps contain the magnetic flux surrounding each coil. The high frequency air gap has a unique shunt member to apportion the total magnetic flux in the correct ratio between low and high frequency units. This gives an optimum acoustic balance. Precision machined, low carbon steel pole pieces ensure unsaturated operation, linear flux fields and a high heat sinking capability. High power inputs can therefore be handled with minimum change of impedance due to temperature effects. A very robust, high quality, precision pressure die-cast chassis locates the whole magnet assembly and positions the moving parts with high accuracy. This provides long term reliability and yet does not interfere with the acoustic radiation from the individual sections. The Magnetic Circuit Alcomax 3 is an unusually high energy permanent magnet. The unusual iron / nickel alloy is doped with cobalt, aluminium and other rare metals to produce a magnetic material with very special properties. Alcomax 3 has a high remanent magnetism and energy product. In other words, it magnetises to a high level and retains that unusual degree of magnetisation. Alcomax 3 is also an electrical conduction. These properties give the Dual Concentric™ drive unit using an Alcomax 3 magnet an exceptionally clean transient response and increased sensitivity. Alcomax Magnet ™ During the design of the crossover network the acoustic, mechanical and electrical interactions of the high and low frequency sections have been fully analysed. The crossover is therefore an integral part of the design of the system. The crossover network provides complex equalisation in both amplitude and phase for each section and fully integrates the response at the crossover point. All components are high precision, low-loss and thermally stable. A unique shunt element technique controls the motional impedance of the drive units. All components in the crossover network are hard wired to eliminate unwanted metal-to-metal contact and ensure freedom from vibration. The components are laid out to minimise inter component coupling and are placed well away from the driver magnetic field. Specially selected components of the highest quality are used, such as Hovland polypropelene capacitors, non inductive thick film resistors with extensive heat sinking, and very low loss laminated iron core inductors. Wiring is by Acrolink (99.9999% purity) copper, having a large crystal structure and stable atomic arrangement. High current switch blocks with gold-plated screw terminals permit user adjustment of high frequency sound radiation to suit differing listening environments. The complementary design of crossover and drive units means that the loudspeaker system as a whole behaves as a minimum phase system over the audio band and therefore the acoustic sources of the high and low frequency sections are aligned in time and space to ensure accurate reproduction of stereo images. The Crossover Network A Note on Auditory Perception Our hearing mechanism locates natural sound sources with great accuracy by using the naturally occurring phase differences (or arrival times) at middle frequencies, and intensity differences at higher frequencies, between each of our ears. Naturally occurring sounds pass through the air to the ears at constant speed (345 metres/second or 1132 feet/second). All frequencies travel at the same speed and therefore a frequency independent time delay is associated with the distances involved. (The familiar time delay between a flash of lightning and the associated clap of thunder is an example). Human hearing relies on the constant nature of the time delay with the intensity to locate natural sounds accurately. A pair of Tannoy Prestige loudspeakers can uniquely reconstruct stereo images and provide excellent localisation of recorded sounds. The Tannoy Dual Concentric™ principle ensures that the source of sound at high frequencies is on the same axis as the source of sound at low frequencies. The careful design of crossover network complements the drive unit to provide a coincident sound source at frequencies where the human ear derives phase information for localisation. The loudspeaker system exhibits a time delay response that is in essence independent of reproduced frequencies. In addition, the amplitude (or intensity) response is linear, smooth and consistent. This provides the correct intensity information to recreate the original sound stage. |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: December 09 2006 at 23:14
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPSJune 1st, 2001 Audio Manager for the House of Representatives, Al Lakomyj, provided the specifications for loudspeaker design. In November of last year, a comparison among four competing loudspeaker products was held in Washington, D.C. The preferred speaker for the floor of the House was from Tannoy. The loudspeaker that provided the sound quality was the Tannoy CPA5 / i5 AW, but the House had very specific requirements for size and aesthetics. Using the 5" ICT™ drive unit from the CPA5 / i5 AW in custom enclosures was the solution. Tannoy custom-designed and manufactured 415 enclosures with 5" ICT™ Point Source drivers for the installation and supplied 22 raw 5" ICT™ drivers as replacements for existing enclosures. Clear speech articulation, excellent forward gain, and wide frequency response characterize these compact units. Specially reinforced grille covers protect the loudspeakers, which are situated under the chairs of each member. “We were turned on to the job on November 30 and we prepared samples within 24 hours,” says TGI-Tannoy’s, Business and Product Development Manager, Larry Howard. Final approvals were completed within days and all the units were shipped by December 16th. “That's a two week turn-around for a custom design and complete product delivery,” says Howard. “Everyone at TGI-Tannoy pitched in to make this happen.” System designer, Will Parry, of Signal Perfection Limited, agreed: “Tannoy did a spectacular job in delivering the product under an extremely tight deadline.” The Chamber of the United States House of Representatives is the largest room in the Capitol, used for daily sessions of the House and occasional Joint Sessions and Joint Meetings of the House and Senate. The House first occupied this Chamber on December 16, 1857, moving from its previous location now known as Statuary Hall. Today the room appears as it was when renovated between 1949 and 1951. |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: December 09 2006 at 23:18
TRAVELLER'S TRAILJuly 7th, 2005 Taking the travels of the Arabian explorer as its theme, the Ibn Battuta mall in Dubai is a celebration of 15th Century world cultures. Richard Lawn, from the magazine Pro Audio Middle East, explains the installed audio system. As the Sheikh Zayed Road heads south towards Abu Dhabi from Dubai, passing the countless cranes raising new high-rise structures around Dubai Internet City, the building projects become ever more opulent. Among them, the Emirates Mall will attempt to entice visitors from 50° of summer heat to its indoor ski slope, while the nearby man-made Palm Island and World coast resorts play host rich and famous celebrities from around the world. It is in this area that the latest shopping mall has just opened its doors to the public. Themed to mark the travels of 15th Century Arabian explorer Ibn Battuta, the mall’s six courts reflect the most influential cultures he visited, providing visitors a glimpse into the past. Born in Tangiers, Morocco in 1394, Ibn Battuta left his home to increase his understanding of the world that surrounded him, covering 75,000 miles over 30 years- hence, the Andalusia, Tunisia, Persia, Egypt, India and China courts that represent significant stages of his journey. Impressive though his voyages of exploration are, he would surely be equally astounded at the scale, speed and quality of the construction that has taken place in honouring of his name. Exploring the 1.3km complex, it is hard to imagine that foundations were sunk just two years ago, and that the entire interior took a total of eight months to complete. PMK was appointed the A/V consultant for the project and, from the onset, fully understood the client’s requirements in installing a state-of-the-art A/V system, which would both educate and advertise to the mall’s audience. Following a lengthy technical and commercial evaluation, PMK and the mall owner (Nakheel Properties) appointed local installer Promedia Systems to handle the contract on their behalf. What Graham Lawton won’t confess to are the severe handicaps that PMK and Promedia Systems were handed by the interior designer company MTE. As in most architecturally-stunning developments, the mall’s audio systems were to be heard but not seen. And, with the exception of China Court, most of the ceilings in the six malls are 20m 30m in height and are too high for traditional ceiling speakers to be installed. The Persian domed court and Tunisian skyline ceilings in particular are works of art, and were never going to be a discussion topic for interior designer and A/V consultant. Luckily, solutions were to hand. Tannoy was asked to supply more than 600 in-wall iW6 dual-concentric loudspeakers, which have subsequently been installed at regular intervals throughout the mall at heights of 2m to 3m. Each loudspeaker has been carefully orientated to minimise reflections from the shop frontage on the opposite wall. It’s a bitter pill for Tannoy to swallow, but JW MacLean was contracted to design 600 custom grilles to completely conceal the speakers from view. The exception to the rule is in China Court, where a full-scale Junk provides the focal point under a majestic 25m ceiling. Here, 30 Tannoy CMS12TDC 12-inch ceiling speakers provide sound reinforcement as Mr Lawton explains: ‘We weren’t allowed to put speakers into the walls here.’ The Mediamatrix system’s primary function is to provide audio routing with each control room containing a number of 8i audio input and 16o audio output bridges, sharing a cable feed with the Crestron Control and Crown iQ Control to the loudspeakers. The main control room can provide a blend of feeds from an Alcorn Mcbride DVM4 HD, DVD, VHS, MP3, CD and satellite entertainment to the plasma screens and loudspeakers. The networked amplifiers are programmed and timed to the Crestron control panel and can be placed in stand-by mode when not in use, while a Wohler 2A unit monitors anything coming through the Mediamatix network in the control room. Crown CT600 amplifiers provide amplification for the Tannoy iW6 loudspeakers using a 70V line system, which tap in at 30W per loudspeaker, Tannoy transformers were used throughout the installation. No two days in the life of a mall will be the same, despite the systematic programming that has been inputted to the system. The various malls can host live entertainment at various points where 60 floor panels offer local microphone, line inputs/output and video tie lines and control system network connections, all of which are selectable via the Crestron system. At the other end of the scale, voice evacuation and a fire alarm interface can be monitored centrally – and muted, should a false alarm have been activated – on a zone-by-zone basis. The facilities manager ultimately holds the keys to the entire network through various passwords on the Crestron control panel. If a child goes missing in the mall, a message can be paged to a particular section or to the entire mall depending on the level of alert. Commercially, the A/V system will pay for itself rapidly as Dubai-based Octopus Media is successfully selling advertising space to retailers anxious in enticing shoppers into their particular outlets. If they are not selling advertising time, shoppers are being taught 15th Century Tunisian customs or listening to background music. The A/V system is in continuous use while the mall’s doors are open, and reliability is, as ever, fundamental, so the control rooms really are the nerve centres of the mall. As the final commissioning takes place, the PMK and Promedia teams are equalising every area individually channel by channel using the Crown iQ Control. ‘The system that has been installed is very flexible,’ Mr Lawton enthuses. On site, tasks were obviously harder, as there were so many contractors on site trying to perform their various tasks that inevitably, many got in each others’ way, and in some instances, we had to start installing when some tasks hadn’t been completed.’ The smell of paint and adhesives were clearly evident in many parts, even after the mall had opened but the Dubai spirit to fulfil the tasks at all costs is strong. ‘I left the site one evening and this area was a wasteland of sand and rubble,’ Mr Lawton recalls. ‘When I returned the next day, it had been transformed into a vast driveway entrance with lined palm trees and lawns. The work-rate and the ambition to get things done here is truly amazing.’ PMK, UAE: +971.4.321.3888 Thanks to Pro Audio Middle East ( http://www.proaudiomiddleeast.com/ - www.proaudiomiddleeast.com ) for permission to reproduce the article and to Graham Lawton for supplying the images. |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 08:14
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always list prices please, those are numbers i understand Aaron |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 08:18
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Wrong Forum!!!
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Posted By: The-Bullet
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 08:33
Don't you find the WESTMINISTER Royal's a bit too Anglocentric ?  ------------- 
"Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?" |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 10:32
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the scots got the patent on design, and the rest had to follow, as well as recognize their limitations.
whisky and loudspeakers and gaelic what a national heritage.
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: December 11 2006 at 14:06
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here are some unusual ones...
 Hornet Hedlund Horn-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300058261317&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting">
 Shahinian Compass speakers-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290059788769&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting">
 and these are my beauties, LINN KEILIDH
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Posted By: The Lost Chord
Date Posted: December 11 2006 at 15:59
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where do you get the money for all of this!!! I fear I will never make money living in New York...being middle class and white, that is -------------  "Only the sun knew why"
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: December 11 2006 at 19:12
or just plain unemployable...... 
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The Lost Chord wrote:Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 12 2006 at 10:30
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Genesis 1.1 
Low: Goldmund Mimesis 9.4 
Highs: Conrad Johnson Premier 
Preamplifier: Mark Levinson 32 Reference 
Cables: Transparent cables "Opus" 
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Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: December 13 2006 at 04:04
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I notice that the Genesis 1.1 speakers shown above have multiple drivers. I'm surprised at this for audiophiles. Surely it has always been understood that you can only approach truly accurate sound with one point of sound generation, hence concentric drivers. As soon as you have more than one location of sound generation you get standing wave patterns around the speakers. I suppose that they would work if you were in exactly the correct position relative to the loudspeaker cabinets. ------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: December 13 2006 at 10:21
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sorry to go off-topic but.....
 olivier - i notice there are various makes of tube amps for sale on ebay at the moment (from Hong Kong), they look good but have you any idea what they sound like? ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: December 13 2006 at 15:07
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Just get a cheap 1970s Amstrad amp & nail a new old lightbulbs on the top - hey presto! A valve amp. ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 10:52
They can't be just any old bulb 'though. Colour and wattage are important ------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 16:23
Are you talking about Jolida ones or about which brand? If you're looking for ultra budget good tube amp, "Prima luna" is for you! 
Warmly recommended... |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: December 16 2006 at 05:21
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such is the power of upgrade-itis, i have just acquired a Cyrus 2 with PSX power supply and Linn Keilidh speakers, i'm another step closer to that big sound i was looking for - and those drums! they really hit you in the chest - dooom dooom!! and cymbals that float in the air ssssssss!! and those fluid guitars snaking their way across the soundstage - eeeeooooyyyywwwwww!!!
 but will get the "itch" again soon i guess...
(i got it bad  )------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 16 2006 at 05:44
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Did you replaced your Cd player as well? and what about cables? |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: December 16 2006 at 11:32
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Olivier - still using Linn interconnects, and QED Anniversary Silver speaker cable - should i upgrade those too?
CD players - still using Cambridge Azur 640C V2 and Marantz 6000 SE / Trichord clock 2 (and Sony SACD) .
The new amp and speakers really bring out the character of the cd players!
PS - the tube amps look great - maybe next Christmas!
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 16 2006 at 14:43
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Dont change the QED, there are good. You can biwire if you can. But the Linn cables are not good at all, sorry!
Change for "Qed", or better, american ones such as "Kimber", "Synergetic", "Wireworld" ones (in the affordable category). |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 16 2006 at 14:50
And yes, a Nad, Rotel, Naim, Rega, Creek Cd player will work far better. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: December 16 2006 at 17:47
noted, Olivier! will try the QED interconnects for now, but will investigate cd players next year.
many thanks!
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 02:10
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You have maybe notice that i adviced you english products. Good for you, you'll have it at the best price. English are the kings on these kind of affordable products, with that typical english sound which is warm and musical. A little review: Nad: The "Rega planar 3" of CD, fantastic price/quality from the smallest model, limited on both extremeties of the spectrum but very musical. Rotel: Nad's concurrent with a quicker and more precise/neutral sound aesthetic. Rega: Very warm and analog sounding, limited on extreme low/high, but very musical. Creek: Very rich and refined sound, very musical. Naim: Dynamic with lot of matter, soft highs, perfect for rock (and so prog)! Arcam: Neutral and precise. ...to go further: if you're ready to invest more, a Linn "Ikemi" will smoke all the ones up! I love the Naim, with its original steel drawer, and great thin look! 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 17 2006 at 04:12
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Mystic fred, you should try the "Qunex 3" model from QED, it's the most interesting one! 
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: December 18 2006 at 15:06
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^^^^^^^^^^^
i have ordered 2 pairs of these
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 18 2006 at 15:13
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Congratulations! |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 18 2006 at 15:17
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Recommended affordable integrated CD players: -Arcam Cd192 -Creek Cd53 -Creek Cd50mkII -Nad C541i -Naim Cd5/Cd5i -Rega Planet -Rega Apollo -Rega Jupiter -Rega Saturn -Rotel RCD06 |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 06:32
noted!  ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 08:35
| Please let me know about the QED when you'll get it. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 19 2006 at 11:55
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It'll be time for you to work on your system's power. First step: -Respect power phase (free but essential). -Avoid plastic multiplugs which ruin your sound. -Use quality power cables: the ultra cheap musical product is "Supra" Lorad power cable (there's nothing below among good ones), have a look here: http://www.hificables.co.uk/ProductsList/mcs/CategoryID/2380/GroupID/708/CatName/Power%20cords/v/09fc0edc-4900-41ea-afad-26bd33c7804a - http://www.hificables.co.uk/ProductsList/mcs/CategoryID/2380/GroupID/708/CatName/Power%20cords/v/09fc0edc-4900-41ea-afad-26bd33c7804a |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 03:41
....are these no good?
 i only have x2 wall socket - if i install x4 will that help, with Supra leads plugged into the wall sockets?
installing a dedicated spur is complicated! (may need an electrician to do that).
http://imageevent.com/sidandcoke/dedicatedhifielectricalspur - http://imageevent.com/sidandcoke/dedicatedhifielectricalspur
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 03:58
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What is that multiplug? Is it yours? Good multiplugs features an aluminium body. If you have two wall plugs, try to plug your devices directly on the wall, avoiding the multiplug. A gold rule is to separate your CD from the rest, so plug your CD player directly on the wall and the amp directly on the wall on the other plug if possible. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 20 2006 at 04:06
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" only have x2 wall socket - if i install x4 will that help, with Supra leads plugged into the wall sockets? installing a dedicated spur is complicated! (may need an electrician to do that)." I don't understand the word "spur", but to intall dedicated separate lines direct to the home counter is indeed a lot of work, but really essential!!! 2.5 mm diameter for sources and 4.00 mm diameter for amps. I use myself 3 lines: -1 on 2.5 mm for my drive and converter together on their 4 filters (2 for each). -1 on 2.5 mm for my Jolida on its 1kw power filter. -1 on 4mm for my sub which features a 200W power amp. My new preamp is passive, which means no power alimentation, so it saves a lot of money in power cables, filters and save...an electric line! About Supra, it's sold by meter, so you make your own cables with the wanted length by putting the plugs at both extremities (very easy, just to screw). So if you want to make very short economic cables, you can. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 18:59
i don't have a multiplug like this, Olivier, it's £130.00 on Ebay!!
my one was about £40 with a similar type of cord. ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: December 21 2006 at 20:46
My speakers: (Same model, but darker color) Not the best, but they were my parents' (just sitting in the basement collecting dust) so you can't beat the price. One speaker kind of goes in-and-out, but I think it stopped, fortunately. Someday I'll have really awesome speakers like you crazy, rich audiophiles. ------------- 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 02:28
Be afraid of so called audiophile multiplugs cause most of it are very bad (and very expensive moreover) and downgrade a lot, especially the ones with filtering such as "Axon" brand. The "Naim" multiplug is another rip-off, a plastic ordinary multiplug sold several times its real value. An audiophile product such as "Energia" is very bad and to avoid!!!! Very bad and very expensive: HMS Energia: 
Good multiplugs are the ones for industrial/computer use, with an aluminium body. You mount a good power cable such as the Supra on it. 
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Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 02:39
------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 22 2006 at 03:11
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About multiplugs, it's maybe because aluminium is amagnetic. "A gold rule is to separate your CD from the rest." Because digital devices feature die-cutting power alimentations which have the characteristic to pollute a lot by reinjecting electric pollution to the other devices within the system. |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: December 30 2006 at 12:17
I use a pair of these Deuvel Bella Lunas, a somewhat unusual unidirectional design:
 Specifications:
http://www.cd-konzert.de/Produkte/Ebellaluna_st.htm - http://www.cd-konzert.de/Produkte/Ebellaluna_st.htm
Cross-sectional view:
http://www.cd-konzert.de/details/Edetails.htm - http://www.cd-konzert.de/details/Edetails.htm
I was sceptical until I listened...but after a couple of hours in the listening room I knew I'd found my "for life" speakers. After four years the relationship is still going strong!
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 07:03
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very pretty - but do they rock'n'roll??
i changed mine again - castle severn 2 se ....(they really do rock'n'roll!)
 http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i247/mysticfred/castle.jpg - ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 07:09
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Good choice! Castle is a nice brand! |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 04 2007 at 11:16
Oh they can rock'n'roll OK - though the design does mean you can't put your head right in the bass driver for that mosh pit effect
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 05 2007 at 02:05
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^^^for the time being they will.....
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Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: January 05 2007 at 18:25
Nice. They cost around US$ 10,000 don't they? For that price, they must be good. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=326" rel="nofollow - Read reviews by Fitzcarraldo |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 06 2007 at 11:25
I don't know about US pricing but they were about £3000 UK when I bought them. A real extravagance which I justified to myself by thinking that if I kept them for 30 years it wouldn't work out that expensive at £100 / year...rationalisation is a wonderful thing
.They do sound fantastic (though speaker sound is very subjective of course...).
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 07 2007 at 13:18
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what amps are you driving them with? ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 07 2007 at 16:59
 An integrated - Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista M3.
Excuse fingerprints on the fascia, I should have wiped it before taking the picture...
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 12 2007 at 11:59
^^very nice!
my old pair of beauties - Cyrus 2 with PSX power supply.
they don't muck about, no tone controls, great phono stage, loads of bass and sweet treble!
i have them connected up with Kimber power cables now. they may look ugly, but they rock!
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Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 12 2007 at 17:56
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^^Great British kit, Cyrus are vey underrated I think. And they came out with compact units long before it was the fashion.
Tone controls are for wimps. A proper amp plays what's on the record and if you don't like it that's your problem!
I haven't yet explored the world of fancy power cables. Do you find they make a big difference?
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 02:18
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they certainly seem to .....have a look at this, you will see things in a new light -
http://www.russandrews.com/lookup/1/region/UK/currency/GBP/customer_id/PAA1896016007847CZRSSXVNPQRDQCWN/product-Sound-Solutions-6000.htm - http://www.russandrews.com/lookup/1/region/UK/currency/GBP/customer_id/PAA1896016007847CZRSSXVNPQRDQCWN/product-Sound-Solutions-6000.htm
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Posted By: The-Bullet
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 07:32
That's like asking Jesus if he believes in God. There is no credible evidence that these make a difference ! -------------
"Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?" |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 14:39
i've tried many of these cables and techniques and i assure you they DO work, they make a huge difference to the humblest equipment, the rest is down to personal preference.
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Posted By: The-Bullet
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 15:36
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Anecdotal and subjective experiences do not count as evidence. From the research I've done (including my own audio tests) it seems that subjective opinion on this matter is split.However, there is still no scientific DB tests that show there is any detectable difference. Why don't these "high end" cable companies submit there wares to impartial double blind testing ?.They claim that the difference there cables make is enourmous, yet any tests that have been done show that the difference is imperceptable. BTW many people also feel better after taking sugar pills in medical tests... -------------
"Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?" |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 17:57
^ absolutely ... even more so if the sugar pill cost them thousands of dollars/pounds/euros/etc..
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 01:56
i am not a qualified technician/reviewer, i am only an ordinary music lover with an open mind keen on getting the best out of my system, and i have heard many claims, fads and fashions over the years, many ridiculous, though cable technology is not "high end", it is based on plain common sense and works on even the most simple equipment, most improvements claimed made by manufacturers of "expensive" cables involve cancelling various forms of interference and impedance which ruins the sound of good equipment - even a portable DAB radio! Impartial blind testing, or A/B/C/D comparison, is not really a good way to judge sound and music - it is art, after all, and such tests depend on people's personal sound preferences and emotional reaction to the music, the only way to do it is set up the mains and signal cables in your home for a few weeks with your favourite music and a comfy chair and be amazed at the advance in quality of sound immediately, then everything needs time to settle in (or "burn in"), your ear soon gets accustomed to the improved sound so then you might be looking for more improvements - if not you can send the whole lot back for a refund, though the improvements are so obvious i don't think anybody would. the differences are obvious, though not enormous, but easily justify the cost of the basic lower priced cables and connectors (£50 - 100 for one interconnect, mains cable or pair of speaker leads) - power supply (new sockets) and room acoustics have an effect on sound quality so free improvements there are a worthwhile starting point. As for high-end stuff, i've hardly ever heard any so i can only comment on what i've actually heard with my own budget system.
try out these cables and interconnects for a couple of months, then tell me your opinion!
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 03:05
That's ridiculous. The art is in the music, not in the sound ... sound is just an acoustic or electronic signal. Impartial blind testing is the *only* way to verify the claims made by the manufacturers (and users) of audiophile equipment. Of course it fails, and of course (knowing that it will fail) they refuse these tests. The "art", the enjoyment, the "metaphysical" qualities of the music are created in our minds, not in the gear. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 03:34
...agreed, Mike, but our listening experience can be enhanced by hearing it at the quality as it was intended in the recording studio - that is almost impossible to achieve in the home, but you can try to get close as possible. Many albums i have heard in the 70's on poor equipment have had a new lease of life when heard to its full advantage nowadays, and even become favourites.
listening tests that are carried out in a hifi store listening room, in ideal conditions, are a far cry from hearing the same system in your own home - different room acoustics, furniture, noisy ring main, interference etc. all change the sound. I've never heard of a manufacturer refusing blind comparison tests, as they use these as a routine part of their research as for many other products such as chocolate and perfume (i've done some myself), but they only really reveal superficial differences as much is revealed over a much longer listening period at home. ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 04:50
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As i already told many times, the magic of sound and hifi is the capacity to transmit emotion on one hand and simply the performance which ENABLES TO HEAR INSTRUMENTS (NOT DETAILS) that you won't hear with pororer equipment. That's the experience i do these days with my Sugden amp and my HD600, i hear things i've never heard on records i listened to hundred of times!!! It proves the limitations of my speakers compared to my headphones. If you miss part of the music, it's obvious that you miss part of the magic and emotion. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 07:13
Sorry, but the longer you're listening to your own amp in your own home environment, the more your own perception of how good (or bad) it sounds becomes biased. You simply get used to that sound, and especially when your gear was very, very expensive you eventually think that it *must* sound better than smaller gear. Olivier: Of course big systems reveal more details than small systems. That applies to headphones as well as hi-fi systems - with a really small amp and small speakers you simply have a lower resolution of detail. But I'm sure that with a good "mid-fi" system for €2000 (amp, CD, speakers) you can hear every instrument that you would hear with a real hi-fi system (with both systems having same power/speaker dimensions). Mind you: I'm not saying that they sound the same! I'm sure that the hi-fi system would sound better - I just don't think that a system that costs 10x as much as the mid-fi system sounds 10x better. More like 10% better IMO. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 07:49
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Yes, there are good solutions at 2000€. But it's naive to believe that you can't do better. Only talking numeric source, a big CD source (let's say 5000€) is much much more transparent, dynamic, etc...than a musical 1000€ player. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 07:51
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^ I'm just saying that if in an impartial blind listening test people can't tell them apart, the difference cannot be *that* big. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 08:21
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i guess food could make a good analogy here - i was brought up on fish and chips, roast dinners and peas and carrots, but if i tasted caviar or a very expensive gourmet meal costing £1000 i would probably hate it! it takes years to develop a good palate and to appreciate these things, something i could do in time if embarked on, so if i heard a hi fi system costing £100,000 with £2000 interconnects it would sound very nice but i guess many of its benefits would be lost on me - unless i had been steadily building and appreciating each nuance and upgrade over the years...?
BTW Mike i would rather listen to speakers than headphones any day, i have a pair of £150 Sennheisers i hardly ever use as my speakers sound much clearer, and then room acoustics come into play - yer just can't beat 'em!
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 08:26
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^ careful - this analogy might work both ways. I would say that hi-fi is as much luxury as is caviar ... and both are hardly essential.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 08:33
i don't know - i can go all day without food but if i was forced to miss my daily dose of Prog i would feel very uncomfortable!!
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Posted By: The-Bullet
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 09:31
You see, this is the problem. These cable manufacturers and suppliers don't claim that there stuff make subtle changes that can only be perceived after months of listening. They claim that the effects are obvious and immediately apparent !, with all the "deeper bass, pronounced clarity, richer soundstage" bs that accompanies these claims .So, why can't these super-cables be identified in db tests ? I'll say it again - anecdotal or subjective opinions are not evidence. -------------
"Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?" |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 09:36
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The result is heard instantly, as long as your system is good enough and as long as you use your ears.
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Posted By: The-Bullet
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 09:42
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So point me to the DB tests that show this then Olly -------------
"Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?" |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 09:44
Not talking about prog here, but audiophile hi-fi.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 09:48
Audiophiles don't believe in these tests. Have a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiophile - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiophile This is a very balanced article which tries to be fairly neutral ... it just describes audiophiles' and objectivists' beliefs. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 13:04
Obviously some improvements are immediate, but i was being fair in suggesting others would be apparent after some time, i.e. the cables would need burning in and time would be spent auditioning a substantial part of your CD and vinyl collection, and these things can't be rushed! Some of my albums sound a little strange to the way i was used to hearing them (much more transparent and open, busy passages appear more ordered, sometimes some instruments appear to jump out at you, and some passages of music even seem faster) , so i'm still discovering things, as it were, only after a few weeks. Another thing i noticed i can listen to my system at mid to high volume all day now, before i would get tired and at worst get a headache. The amps get hot and the sound seems to get even better when they've been on for a long time.
All i was suggesting is that you try upgrading your cables and hear it for yourself, but you'll need to give it a fair trial - the Kimber cable manufacturers offer a 60 day return trial on their products, so they can't be fairer than that, can they?
BTW - we had a thread on "burning in" of all electrical products, especially cables and speakers, some time ago, and the general concensus was that burning in exists and is understood by audiophiles and manufacturers as an important part of understanding how new components behave .
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 13:43
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^ sorry, but cables don't burn in. That's a definitive myth.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 13:51
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^Well, they appear to be very happy fooling themselves, who are we to take away their (imaginary) pleasure?
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 13:56
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Just one thing to bear in mind, whilst Mike might be a sceptic he has no stake in whether this stuff is real or not. He doesnt care what you spend your money on, so he is neutral not biased or prejudice. He might just be able to save you some money...
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 14:11
^^Philistines! Scoff ye may, and be happy in your cosy unadventurous world!
...except Tony - firmly sitting on the fence i see! come in - the water's lovely
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 14:13
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"sceptic" is a good description - although it depends. I'm utterly sceptic as far as power line optimization, musical CD players, cable burn in and some other things are concerned, but there are some aspects of audiophile equipment that I accept whole-heartedly. I really like the sound of tube amps, for example. I just don't think that audiophile equipment is ultimately necessary to really enjoy the music, as proven by millions of people who can enjoy music with what audiophile would describe as "crappy". What I am really after is a good compromise ... a middle ground, with those technologies that can be verified scientifically and *without* shady theories that can be disproven easily (Earth is a sphere, and cables don't burn in). For example, tube amps inherently have more distortion, but the distortion has been analyzed and it was found to be much more harmonic than the distortion producted by solid state (let alone digital) amps. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 14:30
Well I have an Arcam CD72 Cd Player, Nad 370 Amp and a pair of B&W big box standmounted speakers so I appreciate decent kit. I am not for spending more than a grand on equipment though. My hifi currently resides ajacent to my PC, my wife finally making me an ultimatum about moving the stuff out of the front room. The B&Ws have had to be boxed as I havent enough room so I am using my old Tannoy Mercury M2s currently. Have connected my PC to the amp by using the headphone out on my soundcard, not ideal but I get a reasonable sound from my MP3s...... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 02:45
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"For example, tube amps inherently have more distortion, but the distortion has been analyzed and it was found to be much more harmonic than the distortion producted by solid state (let alone digital) amps."
Thanks to eventually repeat what i told you dozens of times during endless tube vs solidstate debates. "Well I have an Arcam CD72 Cd Player, Nad 370 Amp and a pair of B&W big box standmounted speakers so I appreciate decent kit." Yes, a good english budget system. QED interconnect cables and power /vib-cancelling optimization would make you win a lot. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 02:51
Solder need burn'in (a kind of alchemy at a molecular level with the solder, Sean trane which is an expert agreed on that point). In the case of cables featuring filtering boxes (and there are on power, modulation and speakers ones), it's even more obvious as these boxes feature electronic compounds who need a burn-in. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 03:48
| Sorry but I have to agree with Mike here, I've studied electronics and used to build a few circuits myself, electronic parts do not need to be burnt in, instead as they're used they slowly get worse over time (as is the case with one of my guitar amps). |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 04:21
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That's wrong. It needs burn-in and it needs heating, like
the class A headphones amp Sugden le Bijou (several hours). |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 04:32
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...and there's a big difference between studying theories and listening to the devices. Some theory said that tube distors more than solidstate (and that's "true" if you look at the mesures), but eventually an another one which is related to harmonics explain why tube sound better than solidstate. Eventually Mike agreed on that point after many many fights, after i repeated the same endlessly.
"instead as they're used they slowly get worse over time (as is the case with one of my guitar amps). " However i agree on that point, the more electronic heats (class A), the more it degrade. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 05:40
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Of course there's a difference between theory and real life I never said that a slightly degraded circuit wouldn't sound better than a new one I was speaking from a purely theoretical point of view, and yes valves do sound better than solid state but that's all due to the way the human ear works. For best electrical performance a brand new circuit is best but for reproducing sound in a way thats pleasing to the human ear? I think the jury is out as everyone has different preferences. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 05:43
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Not degraded, i don't think. I just talk about a run-in period, which for the same "molecular" reasons that the solder issue, is needed for the electronic component to reach its full capacity. Now, i agree with you that after a long time, electronic components degrade and may loose performance. Like tubes which need replacment when there are worn. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 05:49
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Any change in molecular state from when a component is built is technically the component degrading.
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 07:46
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OK, ive made research about the issue, and it appear that transistor components would not need run-in, and that's
mostly solders who need it. I've constated it many times, including after a repair on my Jolida tube amp, which needed several days to sound real good, after some component's replacment. There youre quite right, theorically a transistor only degrade if its subject to excessive heat. And the heat issue is also linked to the circuit's architecture. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 07:56
At least I'm a nice person. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 07:59
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You don't show it much, infortunatly. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 08:01
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^ so - which of my comments in this thread would you consider to be rude?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 08:06
"Cable" essentially means "wire" ... of course when you have active circuitry then it's more than a cable, it becomes a filter or whatever you might call it. Are the €3000 cables active then? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: January 25 2007 at 14:25
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judging from the tumbleweed and dustballs floating around here after the last post, I think that the answer to the €3000 Question must be a resounding:
No Non Nein
KO victory to MikeEnR ??? 
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Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: January 25 2007 at 15:21
I've been in electronics and audio for years and never heard of this. can you point me to anything on the net that explains this? as I'm interested. ------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 04:25
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I'm searching.
I've find that about components burn-in: "What is burn-in and how will it effect my kit? Burn-in (or break-in) is a process that most high-end audio components have to go through. The components requiring the most burn-in are usually capacitors and audio transformers and will take different times to fully settle and sound their best. Most kits sound great straight away but will continue to get even better as time passes. The components requiring the most burn-in are usually Black Gate capacitors. Depending on their grade and specification, they can take a few hundred hours to sound their best but it has to be said that they are well worth the wait and the changes can be quite fascinating to hear." (http://www.audionotekits.com/faq.htm) |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 04:28
Active filters, yes. 3000€ is the extreme high end. There are killer "passive" cables since 450€. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 08:38
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Not going to read the full thread here, but to Olovier's demand, I will explain a few things of soldering/welding (which is not my field, but I studied safety around the welder).
On an industrial scale, with extreme temperature changes (over 100°C changes), Welding surface need to be prepared for a proper execution especially when soldering different metals/steels. This comes from an entirely a highly pure surface prepartion to preheating before the welding, than goes phase of cooking the weld or solidifying it, before checking if the welding was correctly dobe without cracks or bubbles.
On a home stereo , where the only real temperature change is the ambient air (from 15 to 35°C) makes a difference with of course the general heat generated from the electronic itself, but generally it is kept relatively cool by evacuating the heat. In general our electronics (non-military) can work from 6(°C to max 35°C except when stoves are concerned and even then the electronics are placedaway from the heating resistances. Have you ever found out your stereo has problems operating properly when the 40°C are reached... There you go.
So in general, the heat inside the stereo is kept around 30°C, except in the case of tube amps (but those stick out not only for beetter cooling but to not propagate heat to other components. One other source of heat comes from bad contacts between elements (this can be plugs and jacks, but a foor welding too). So I imagine that most manufacturers have adapted their welding techniques (I have sen some techniques like a solder bath with a fountain jet caressing the botton of the PC boards (where no compnents are) with a strenght justenough so that the soldermakes the right amount of "bulbing" effect on the compnent side) in order not to hurt the electronics components by overheatinbg them, yet making proper contacts.
Does it imply a running in of the solder on the PC boards? I doubt it very much, because it is likely to damage the components, and running in the compnents is most likely part of their quality system and done still at the end of the production line.
RE: weldings are a very tricky thing, and the alloys used ever important. Certainly Aiwa does not use the same alloys as Harmon Kardon or NAD. Or the non-brands speakers made by cheap manufacturers and getting a label once it is about to be assembled into a cheap system are also not getting the best welding materials. which is unlikely with brands like B&W or JM lab.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |