Swearing on stage/recording
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31301
Printed Date: December 11 2024 at 18:26
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Topic: Swearing on stage/recording
Posted By: clubsprint
Subject: Swearing on stage/recording
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 08:27
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G'day all
I was listening to Transatlantic Live in Europe and it's quite awesome. However during a song break
one of the band drops the F word and it just lowered then tone and atmostphere of the CD.
Maybe I'm just getting old and fatherhood has sensitized me to this but surely these guys can express themselves with using profanity. There was a time I would have told myself to mailto:F#@% - F#@% off but now it sort of highlites lack of imagination and ignorance of the language and the audiences sensibilities.
What do you all think? ------------- There's no news in the truth and no truth in the news. |
Replies:
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 08:41
I agree, I think that a large reason why Not Now John is the weakest song on The Final Cut is because it ruins the mood, both the music AND the profanity.
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clubsprint wrote:Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 09:05
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It would only bother me if it as added to the middle of songs, and then only because it could ruin the songs. Otherwise I couldnt care less.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 09:07
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It's just a word. Do not fear words. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 09:08
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Phil Collins often swore for effect at later Genesis concerts. Nuff said ------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 09:13
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I have heard those words so often in my lifetime I am just desensitized.It doesn't really bother me. -------------  |
Posted By: Eat_Paris
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 09:19
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come on guys.. i know that they play prog (supposedly "intelligent" music).. but all in all they are all just... rockers.... the word doesnt have any meaning anyway... unless they say.. f*k somebody/something... ------------- "love prog .. simply because its beautiful" .. and lindsay lohan =P~ |
Posted By: Paradox
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 09:25
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Why is that word even offensive? I wonder why certain words are taboo... ------------- 
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Posted By: Firepuck
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 09:26
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Personally I don't like it. To me these words lack imagination and intelligence. ------------- Kryten : "'Pub'? Ah yes, A meeting place where humans attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks." |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 09:29
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Agree with a lot of comments here. Can only think of two songs where the f words are acceptable - Al Stewart's Bed-sitter Chronicles, and Utopia's Hiroshima. Tool's songs are a nightmare to schedule on a radio station, who's license forbids use of such words. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 09:42
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There's a, quite frankly, beautiful moment towards the end of an Absolute Zero song (Stutter Rock, You Said - you can hear the streamed version on their PA page) where the song falls apart a bit and (probably) Pip Pyle just yells from the distance "OH... F*CK IIIIIIT!", smashes the drums and the whole band kicks back into gear for another climactic minute of noise. Now, call me a heathen, but that track, especialy its closing moments, would be less effective without that deliciously timed piece of swearing. |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 10:24
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It's all part of our language. There are words which are far more offensive than the F word (and I don't mean the C word).
------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 10:25
| I don't really mind it, but it's a little contradictory considering the otherwise sophisticated nature of Prog Rock. |
Posted By: The Letter M
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 10:45
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Yeah, I noticed about Phil Collins, because on "The Way We Walk" live CD set, Phil sings "she will f--- up your life" instead of "mess up your life" in Invisible Touch. I thought it was interesting.
As for Portnoy dropping the f-bomb on the Transatlantic live releases, I'm not too surprised because that's pretty much how Mike is, really. And he was right, nothing but epics! -Marc. ------------- I know what I like and I like what I know. I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose free will. If I die tomorrow, I`d be alright because I believe that after we`re gone, the spirit carries on. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 10:46
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I think the word used in songs is OK in the right context,for example Marillion's "She Chameleon" it is exactly the right word to use.
However as part of stage banter etc..well it doesnt really bother me but it might be embarrassing if in the ear shot of older family members. I remember taking great delight at playing certain parts of Ted Nugent's "Double Live Gonzo" album in front of my dear old granny.... ..."anyone who wants to get mellow can turn around and ge the f*** out of here..." 
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 10:51
I really don't agree with this at all. Swearing can be highly sophisticated if used consciously, as one would use any other word. When people resort to swearing due to their own limited vocabulary, then it becomes unsophisticated. I can't think of many examples where this is the case in prog, though. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 12:05
..you should hear some Oasis interviews/gigs !!!
 -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 12:06
..you mean like Derek and Clive???
------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 12:51
| If swearing onstage bothers you, don't go to a Children of Bodom concert. I honestly am pretty sure Alexi Laiho rehearses his banter between songs in an effort to include the F word as many times as humanly possible. |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 13:00
Don't forget the mythical Garden Party line.  Fish also cursed a lot during the introductions and his talking to the audience between songs (he was a very explicit speaker) with Marillion (and solo as well), the most notable one usually being Fugazi where before they'd begin he'd say, "this world is f**ked up". ------------- 
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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 13:19
Agreed with the last part of the first sentence, not for those reasons though.  ------------- sig |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 13:20
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Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 13:25
Oh come on, Tony can get away with namedropping Ted Nugent yet CoB are entirely out of the question? What's this world coming to? |
Posted By: SignalToNoise
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 13:37
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Swearing killing songs? lol, definitely not! Listen to Zappa!
Anyway, I don't own this transatlantic CD but I can not imagine that any word can affect the atmosphere on any record..! ------------- I am Swiss, so don't kill me for this! 7yuc**paranoid android http://www.last.fm/user/SignalTonoise"> 
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 13:59
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It really depends who says it for me. Cause if...Jon Anderson comes out saying "lets all f**k tonight", well that would be just plain stupid. But when Maynard shouts "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck you buddy" in Hooker with a pennis, its just orgasmic...oh sorry, f**king orgasmic ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 13:59
| "Hey Jude" contains a profanity from John Lennon towards the end, before the "na na na" bit. He fluffs a backing vocal and shouts "f***ing hell!". You probably wouldn't notice it unless you knew it was there. |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 14:16
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My thinking is that if you are going to swear, then go ahead and do
it. On "Artificial Smile" by Riverside the singer, Duda, sings
"I'm only happy when they F you" (or something like that) and it just
sounds ridiculous to me. Maybe they were trying to avoid getting
the parental warning sticker on the cd case.
------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: sm sm
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 14:29
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When used in a justified way, swearing is acceptable. To use it now would not be acceptable
What I find ignorant is the use of fancy words in order to show one's superority of intelligence - see many letters to the editor.
To use it to describe such a person being a pompous a**hole would be acceptable.
What I find offensive is inappropriate gross talk. I never understood why the need to include the lyric "snot is running down his nose" in Tull's Aqualung.
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Posted By: Firepuck
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 14:47
While I'm not a fan of swearing I find the imagery of Anderson's lyrics excellent, the above included. ------------- Kryten : "'Pub'? Ah yes, A meeting place where humans attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks." |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 14:48
Aqualung is a musical and poetic portrait of a vile, decript old man. In what way is that lyric inappropriate in such a context?  |
Posted By: ResidentAlien
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 14:55
Yes, "nuff said," because Phil Collins is the end-all-be-all authority on what is right and what is wrong. Which is precisely why we have such monumental masterpieces as Invisible Touch. http://youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc - http://youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc Watch^. Be enlightened. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 15:05
I love that part!  -------------   
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 15:07
It's a corker, innit? |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 15:26
 I agree. I couldn't care less... f**k is one of the most beautiful words in the English language if you ask me... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 15:30
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Ansen, you're Russian, your opinion doesn't count. TP: yes, I love that album. I'm still coming to grips with it. Is that a tango being played on the last track? I'm useless at working out things like that. -------------
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Posted By: tdbark
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 16:19
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The most surprising instance of the F word was during Pigs (Three Different Ones). "You f**ked up old hag." I remember listening to that on the radio (along with the Who's Who Are You ["Who the f**k are you?"]) and thinking, my god, did he just sing that? Later when I bought the album, I discovered that he did. There were some great mavericks back in '70's album-oriented rock stations. In both those instances I believe that contextually the word fits. But in-between songs (with the exception of the afore-mentioned Ted Nugent... the Motor City Madman has way with words... lol ... and you knew that that was part of his act) in a performance that was not necessarily promoted as "Rated M for mature" I would like the performers to show a little restraint, given there might be some young teens in the audience. ------------- Twenty men crossing a bridge into a village, are twenty men crossing twenty bridges into twenty villages. Wallace Stevens |
Posted By: piltdown man
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 16:28
I never had any problems with Fish cursing - his monologues during the concerts were very enjoyable most of the times.
Hearing the whole audience join Fish in that Garden Party-line was interesting - it seemed like people who didn´t know any songs or lyrics at least knew that line!
Whats with the word Fugazi? Is that the F -word as used by American soldiers in Vietnam - I think´I´ve read that in some Fish interview or am I totally misinformed?
My opinions in the question asked is that the use of swearing in songs can be totally right in the right context and if not only used for some cheap effect.
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 16:37
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[QUOTE=piltdown man] ...Whats with the word Fugazi? Is that the F -word as used by American soldiers in Vietnam - I think´I´ve read that in some Fish interview or am I totally misinformed?[QUOTE]
You're informed correctly - it means the same as the last two letters of SNAFU
I still remember the shock I got the first time I heard the Woodstock soundtrack, when Country Joe does the Fish cheer - but somehow, that's art. Skid Row's use of the word in "Get the f**k Out" is also inspired - but somehow, W.A.S.P's "Animal, I f**k Like a Beast" seems retarted because of the use of the word. I'd say it depends on the context - largely that between listener and artist  ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 16:40
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It's just a word. A word has no morality. It's silly to jugde something like a word.
Sometimes a well placed 'f**k' can be used to a wonderful effect. Take Ween for example. -------------  
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 16:44
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Let me quote Devin Townsend, on Steve Vai's album Sex & Religion, right at the end of the song Sex & Religion: "holy sh*t. holy jesus christ, I hurt your brain, hah, great god, steve, oh My fingers are numb, right now Yeah, theyre numb Can I deprive my brain of oxygen?" ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: alan_pfeifer
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 16:46
| another example would be The MC5 with Kick Out The Jams. That song loses all it's bite without the opening cry of "Kick Out the Jams Motherf**ker!" |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 16:49
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what about NIN - closer? |
Posted By: billbuckner
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 17:58
| Doesn't Ian Anderson say "f**k, take two" at the opening to Baker St. Muse? |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 18:42
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No, he says sh*t, take two. Swearing doesn't really bother me. I don't do it because I think it's a bad habit, but I don't really care if others do it. Saying it a lot just for the sake of it is obnoxious, though. |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 20:26
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it' really all about how it is used and how it is heard, but if he said it during a song break it doesn't sound like a big deal some bands can pull it off, some can'ti personally am not offended when i hear swear words in music, i just think it cheapens it a bit
Aaron
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 20:35
I thought Portnoy's use of profanity cheapened the show a bit. He just came off as another foul mouthed New Yorker. E ------------- 
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Posted By: lightbulb_son
Date Posted: November 20 2006 at 20:42
Glad to see someone else enjoys them. He's finnish, so you kind of have to cut him slack on that, but he does overdoe it at times. And he's my guitar hero, so I'm not about to second guess the guy's vocabulary. I'm going to see them in DC on the 15th About cursing in general, I guess I've become desensitized. Racial slurs still bother me, but in general nothing really shocks me anymore. ------------- When the world is sick Can't no one be well But I dreamt we were all beautiful and strong 
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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 04:17
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It is stupid in that Spock's Beard epic
It is unnecessary in GYBE's INSTRUMENTAL track name But it is f*cking great in TOOL songs!!! |
Posted By: ResidentAlien
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 04:24
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Man, I can't believe this ridiculous topic is still going on. It's up to the artist to decide what is prudent and necessary. If you don't like the swearing..... don't listen to it. It's not for us to decide what songs warrant swearing and which don't. Frankly... it doesn't make a goddamned difference if any of you think the swearing is unnecessary, it's a part of the song and therefore it's a part of the art. If the artist/musician uses it, it's for a reason; whether you agree with that reasoning doesn't matter. Art is art, leave it to the artist to decide how it "should" be. Again.... http://youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc - http://youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 05:37
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Yesterday I discovered in one catalogue of CDs for sale that there is a band called Anal c**t, talking about foul language here... ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: ResidentAlien
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 06:01
And? They're a grindcore band. They make loud vulgar music... such is their style; it's the message they wish to convey. What's wrong with that? |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 06:17
I guess nothing wrong with this apart from that I think that this kind of a band's name is a bit over the top, but I do not give a f**k about this band in particular and the whole grindcore in general. However I just remembered about this slightly unconventional sh*t when I read people here discussing occasional F words. That's all.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 06:30
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isn't "Eulogy" from Tool the swearest song or what? "...come down, get off your f**king cross..." still, i love it... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 10:38
It's not the name that is the problem. ------------- sig |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 11:56
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Portnoy's commentary on the live in Eurpoe release is at about a 6th or 7th grade level. The rough equivalent of armpit farts and it most certainly and undoubtedly cheapens the whole copncert. I'm glad I wasn't there. I used Protools to edit out his stupidity so that I can listen in peace.
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 16:26
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There are plenty of ways of putting steam into arguments without using language that some people find offensive.
And there is no point in offending people in order to get your point of view across. If you know it might be offensive to some, it's best to avoid it - remember, some people browse this forum at school. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 16:30
| Point taken, post edited |
Posted By: An old fart
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 21:53
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I swear quite a lot in my personal life, not that I am particularly proud of it - and soon becoming a father too. As for the F and C and A words (and the whole bunch of them) in prog rock or whatever art form, they don't bother me much. I find it a little strange notion that some words could have a magical effect of lowering someone's intelligence and imagination the second they are muttered out of the mouth. If that was the case, it would be so easy to appear as intelligent just by dropping cultural words in a row. It's the overall understanding and sensibility to words that counts and in some cases (Fish's lyrics being mentioned as good examples) USING a swear word can be the right thing to do to express something with enough effect. Naturally this does not mean that using as many swear words as possible makes anyone's statement stronger. On the contrary, repeated and unnecessary use of them make them rather lose their effect. ------------- "Make tea, not love" |
Posted By: Meddler
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 22:06
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They cheapen songs for me. The Flaming Lipsruined their concert by fitting the F word in their choruses in as humanly possible.  [singing was off also...]------------- [IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/amorfous/astro-1.jpg"> |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 22:06
AxCx's lyrics are absolutely hilarious, and their music isn't all that bad, as far as plain grindcore goes, they're pretty good! Unlike all those "white power" grindcore bands, like Vaginal Jesus...  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 22:08
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If you go back to the origin of the thread, the actual complaint was about between song stage banter, not lyrics (the thread has been slightly co-opted). In particular Mike Portnoy on the TA live in Europe release. In that particular case his language makes Portnoy appear (and maybe rightly so) totally moronic and incapable of coherent speech. I don't think this is the case, I think he does it to appear "cool" to young, stupid metal-heads who truly believe that they are defying the authority of the whole world by using one stupid word, when in fact it simply makes them look like the spoiled children they are.
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Posted By: Meddler
Date Posted: November 21 2006 at 22:10
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^ good thing you got the new page
------------- [IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/amorfous/astro-1.jpg"> |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 02:16
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offtopic
congratulations!  ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 07:57
| Old fart, you can't be much of one if the baby's on the way. I've been a dad for 26 years & counting. Might have something to do with it all though. |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 08:20
And yet, its Transatlantic, so the chances of there being any "stupid metal-heads" in the audiance is small one would think. Maybe he just doesnt care since the first post made it seem that he was talking to the other band members and not the audiance (I havnt seen the DVD), or maybe he was just really enjoying himself up on stage. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 10:01
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I have the audio of the concert and it seems like he was talking to the audience, introducing the tunes and acting as master of ceremonies, as it were. It seems so totally out of place. he did the same thing ono the live in America release as well. Took my estimation of him down quite a number of pegs in general. I can't get why Neal & Randy want him around (other than the drumming of couse, hard to fault him there).
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 10:11
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^Randy? Transatlantic was a Mike Portnoy side project, even if Neal Morse and Roine Stolt took over the creative reigns.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 10:18
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Randy George of Ajalon (another Christian Prog band) who now also plays with Neal's solo band along with Mike P. Sorry for the confusion. Jumped ahead in time a few years without warning.
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 10:54
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It`s just a word as pointed out by a few of you guys. People from all walks of life use it. My doctor uses it. My wife who has a Phd. uses it. Pilots use it. Police officers use it. Bob Fripp uses it.John McLaughlinn has used it many times even in nterviews. You hear it every day walking down the street. You see it in the newspaper. don`t see what`s the problem with this "F" word. Get over it. Elvis is dead and the "F" word has become more acceptable and is here to stay. IT`S ONLY A F*%"$!# WORD.
------------- |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 10:59
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If it's only just a word why does the site here automatically censor it? And why did you censor yourself rather than just say (type) it? It is clearly more than just a word and you, yourself recognize that fact. Words are one of the mosat powerful things on earth and we should be careful how we use and abuse them.
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 11:22
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I didn`t use it because it would have been censored. If the site chooses to censor expletives, such as the "F" word then I respect their wishes and refrain from utilizing it here. Believe me in real life, if someone doesn`t like my choice of words the that`s their effing problem not mine.
------------- |
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 13:34
Uh, listen to Pig Destroyer or Napalm Death if you want good grindcore... Anal c**t's music is pretty much a complete joke, I think they put more effort into their (admittedly pretty funny) song titles than their music. And Vaginal Jesus aren't actually white power, they're every bit as satirical as AC (they actually were on a white power record label but got kicked off for not really holding those beliefs). |
Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 14:06
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I really don't like the F U part in "The Water" by Spock's Beard, but usually I don't mind cussing in songs.
------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 11:10
| Considering swearing - English "bad" language is much more ear-friendly IMHO that the Russian one! All these "h**", "p**dets","e**nutiy" etc are much more rude than a tiny little "f**k". Personally being a Russian speaker I prefer to drop a dozen of f**ks instead of a one Russian swearing...the same level of releasing your negative emotions, but less harmful for your ears |
Posted By: ResidentAlien
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 12:57
Or we shall all surely face CERTAIN DOOOOOOOM. |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 17:02
I know exactly what you mean....actually I am one of the very few who know exactly what you mean here...------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: November 30 2006 at 08:19
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I agree that the censoring is a bit silly at times - I'm really glad I don't live in the English town of Sc**thorpe (I didn't add the asterisks - you try it!), or, indeed, the Austrian town of f**king...
/edit - that's odd... the forum software decapitalised that genuine town name for me as well as adding the asterisks...
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |