Does humor belong in prog?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30212
Printed Date: January 15 2025 at 16:56
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Does humor belong in prog?
Posted By: yarstruly
Subject: Does humor belong in prog?
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 11:58
|
Inspired by the "Song Ruined by one Bad Moment" thread....
It seems to me that some proggers miss the inherant humor put into songs from time to time....The Rap section of RTB for instance....Can proggers be to seroius?
To paraphrase FZ:
Does humor belong in prog? ------------- Facebook hashtags: #100greatestprogrockchallenge #scottssongbysong #scottsspotlight |
Replies:
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:04
|
Absolutely. Humor belongs everywhere. Pink Floyd showed humor with "Seamus" and "San Tropez." King Crimson had "Cat Food," "Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream," and "The World's My Oyster Soup Kitchen Floor Wax Museum." Genesis was never afraid to include a laugh or two. Then there is Frank Zappa ...
------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: alias10mr
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:07
| Why should'nt humour be in prog? Harrold the Barrel by Genesis is a song that comes to mind. I think sometimes when an artist takes him(her)self too seriously they become a caricature instead of credible. The opposite can also be true, though. Generally it's always fun to see a group that shares their humour with their audience. The duplicity makes the audience feel involved. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:14
|
Absolutely. It's practically a taste and a style.
------------- 
|
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:15
| Seriously, although a lot of people like Zappa´s humor, it actually puts me off listening to him. A little bit of humor here and there is OK but songs about giant poodle dogs and song titles like "Titties and Beer" just don´t do it for me. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:15
Ah -- I think this was the first thread I ever posted here, and it's been done several times since then.
Expect mixed opinions.... ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: yarstruly
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:16
|
Oh yeah...the humor is definitely THERE....but it seems that so many prog fans take the music so seriously that they can't enjoy it...that's what I was trying to get across.... ------------- Facebook hashtags: #100greatestprogrockchallenge #scottssongbysong #scottsspotlight |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:18
|
Genesis certainly included an English public school humour into their lyrics. What about Aisle of Plenty at the end of SEBTP? Word play with supermarket names and discounted products. It's scrambled eggs! ------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: yarstruly
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:20
|
Actually...I think that there is a lot of self-perody on Toramto on songs like Arriving UFO & Circus of Heaven, but many Yes fans take Yes music so seriously that they missed it..... ------------- Facebook hashtags: #100greatestprogrockchallenge #scottssongbysong #scottsspotlight |
Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:24
| Humour belongs to Prog as an integral part of the life, not much and not less. Also, every listener has a right not to accept any particular attempt to be humorous from the side of an artist. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:26
 For anyone interested, here's version # 1 of this oft-explored topic:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=186&KW - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=186&KW =
(For the record, it seems my first ever thread was "Is classic prog timeless?") ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: yarstruly
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:27
|
I apologize for not checking 1st :) ------------- Facebook hashtags: #100greatestprogrockchallenge #scottssongbysong #scottsspotlight |
Posted By: sm sm
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:34
|
With Zappa, it was either humorous pop songs or classical/jazz compositions.
Personally, I find his humorous stuff becoming dated, like Disco Boy, Valley Girl, but compositions like Peaches in Regala will stand the test of time.
It's tough to write a humorous song/compostion and not sound like Weird Al Yankovic.
Progressive music, like jazz and classical is very serious in nature and humor is understandably very rare to find it
It may be an adventerous avenue more proggers will take, but more in the instrumental area like "flight of the bumblebee", than songs mentioned in above posts
|
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:37
I just had a look, and I'd recommend this previous thread to anyone, if only for the wonderful parody of the lyrics of 'And you and I' by Dan Bobrowski! |
Peter Rideout wrote:
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:37
Hey, no problem. That really doesn't bother me -- I don't think it's realistic to expect folks to always check, especially when they are inspired, as you were.I just thought that perhaps you and others might find it interesting to check out some earlier thoughts on this matter, and also catch a glimpse of the forum in its infancy. (See how opinions then & now compare, & see who was here then, but gone -- or still here -- now.) ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:38
I remember, before I got into prog I saw some special in TV about 70 music ( I think it was from the BBC) and the only think they said about prog was about The Dark side of the moon, and then the guitarist of Fleedwood Mac said something like "In the early 70 there were some musicians that thought they could so classical music and started to ruin rock..." or something like that, and then they showed a clip of Rick Wakeman in studio playing three keys like if that was a bad thing, and to finish this stupid statement this guitarist (dont know the name, not interested either, but it was not Peter Green) says that this kind of music was murded by their musicians because they had no humour and took themself to seriuosly...ahhhhh how stupid can this people be!!! So my first thought about prog were that its too serious ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
|
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:46
I'll admit the title of 'Titties and Beer' may sound banal, but let's be honest: this is a subject many guys are interested in. Zappa sang about the way people really are. And have you actually heard the tune? It's really funky, and wonderfully played. But perhaps the most humorous Zappa composition is 'The Illinois Enema Bandit' (on IN NEW YORK). It brings a grin to my face every time I hear it. And it's an outrageous parody of the blues! |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:47
 Yeah, that was a howler all right (though ol' Dan didn't pen that parody).Geez -- we were so few then, and thus we knew each other fairly well. You can see friendships which still endure emerging.
Excuse me a moment....  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Cynic
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:48
| Humor is great to have, its just it wears off and becomes dated very quickly. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 13:15
What a cynic....
  I see your point, though -- but does the doom and gloom or "everything sucks/all hope is lost/the grave awaits/we're so serious about Our Art" stance not wear thin too? Is a balanced view  not better?All of these unsmiling band publicity shots (see any number of the "darker" sig photos here) look so lame and contrived to me. "Okay, I get it: you're all so bad, and despite your girly hair, so much tougher than I am. You'd kill me as soon as look at me!"
 Give me a feckin' break, and smile for the camera sometimes, please. I'll pay for the stitches if your face breaks....------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Heptade
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 13:34
|
That rap on RTB is truly ridiculous, I suspect not in the way Peart intended. Good album otherwise, though.
Early Softs, Caravan and Hatfield are all legitimately humorous, IMO. ------------- The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning And all the rest is just bullsh*t -Steve Kilbey |
Posted By: Dreamer
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 14:00
|
Soft machine and Caravan and several others of the Canterbury Scene had humor... Don't forget Gong!!
EDIT: I didn't notice the post above, he beat me to it.
 |
Posted By: mickstafa
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 14:05
|
I have really considered burning a copy of my A Passion Play cd that leaves out the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles.... Sometimes I find it fitting, but usually it gets annoying. |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 14:16
| A balance between humour and seriousness is needed. Many bands would really benefit from being less serious and having more humour in their lyrics and music. But ultimately, it's a matter of taste . Some people just don't want humour in their music and some want loads of it. |
Posted By: Dennis
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 14:21
Gabriel era Genesis were masters of cynical humor and pulled it of well. Tracks not mentioned that come to mind are "Counting Out Time" from the Lamb, and "Battle of Epping Forest" from SEBTP. But I agree to what others have said. There needs to be a balance between serious and humorous. ------------- "Day dawns dark, it now numbers infinity" |
Posted By: Zweck
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 14:44
|
Being humorous and serious are not opposites, and if you believe they are; well, then you're f**ked from the start. A quite good example is "Naked Lunch" by William Burroughs; most of the time the book deals with dead serious stuff, but without the often humorous, bizarre, and vulgar presentation, it would've lost all of it's punch. Same with Beefheart; his genious wouldn't be without humor. |
Posted By: Froth
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 15:22
| i always think the best music is that which expresses all that makes up life. If the musics always serious, its not an honest reflection of life as no one, especially a musician, is always serious. Simmilarly, if the music's always humorous, then its very limited as it cant reflect some of the more deeper emotions. I like bands that blend really frightening sections with realy comic ones and really sad parts with really carefree moments. Humour is very good and overlooked, but you shouldnt make a career out of it. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 15:29
That's exactly what I planned to point out. However, humor doesn't always work, as seen in Jeremy Bender and Benny the Bouncer, both by the ELP. It's really a hit or miss affair.
|
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 15:29
Kurt Vonnegut is another example of this phenomenon.
|
Posted By: Mr Krinkle
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 16:12
...Hare, Hare... supermarket!!
...Hare, Hare.... London bus!!
...Hare, Hare.... ladies lavatories!!! ------------- "...I like the way the music goes...there's a few good guys who can play it right..." |
Posted By: Scapler
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 17:15
|
It belongs, but only if the true focus stays on art and music. Randomness can be appreciated. ------------- Bassists are deadly 
|
Posted By: swriter
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 19:23
|
in short, yes, humore does belong at times, what was so bad about the 90's music was the lyric s, everything was so intense and depressing, too much to take if it is all serious!!!! Caravan comes to mind as well as some Nektar and def Zappa, also the canterbury scene had great music and great humor together!!! ------------- ps |
Posted By: EyeShakingKing
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 22:25
|
I really like the song "Jeremy Bender" by ELP.
... I'm not sure if I should though... ------------- Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight. I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 22:44
|
Off course humor belongs in prog... for ours it's just another art form, and there's not ONE art form that takes itself that seriously as to forbid the entrance rights to irony, comedy.... even music's crowning summit, classical music, allows for a lot (and I mean A LOT) of humor in its works (starting with Mozart up to Shostakovich, anybody listened to the latter russian master's ninth? When the soviet authorities, Stalin himself was awaiting a NINTH, a glorious, NINTH-LIKE NINTH, he delivered a short, woodwind instruments-lead parody of what a NINTH is supposed to be).... so please, don't take ourselves too seriously, for if the true scientifics of the art joked with us every once in a while, we, prog-rock lovers, can afford to laugh, too.
But I have to say, the humour we can accept is the smart one, the intelligent one, that that comes from irony, from parody, from paradox, or from the musicians' craft, as when they achieve a unique, ridiculous sound with their instrument, or as when the lyrics tale a completely absurd, yet beautiful story....what we won't allow is STUPIDNESS, that state of mind so common in the general public today, when making an insulting rhyme is "cool" or when making a degrading cover (weird al'yancovic) is "funny"... that's not humor, that's being a fool for laughing at whatever the puppet masters make you believe is funny....
Yes, we can allow humour, we crave some humour, but, as our genre tries to be MORE THAN WHAT IT"S SUPPOSED TO BE, our humour has to be up to par, so, PROG-HUMOUR.
|
Posted By: decypher
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 23:25
| WatchTower covering "Like a Virgin" and "Billy Jean" was good humor, and their stage appearance is kind of funny. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 01:30
|
In my opinion, Seamus and St.Tropez are not humorous, just silly fillers. The same as JTull's "Hare who lost..." and some Zappa goofy jokes. Those songs just turn me off. On the other hand, Jeremy Bender and The Sheriff work for me.
And when I think of a musician who totally lacks sens of humour, Fripp is the man.
But that is not bad. In the end, those folks are musicians, not clowns.
|
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 01:34
|
HOLY CRAP YES!!! I like my sidelong tracks to be creditted to eight year old children, or at least contain a Willow Farm (or the line, "Let the bridge computer speak"), as opposed to something rather...soulless. Like Close to the Edge! ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: jeremybender34
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 02:13
I was actually about to point out how fuuny Jeremy Bender, Benny the Bouncer, and The Sheriif really are. The lyrics themselves are not the actual comedy of the pieces. They more stand as a way to make fun of the kind of music ELP are writing. All of the songs are take offs of more classic and less rock themes as much of ELP's music is, but these are taken much less seriously than say Tarkus, Karnevil9 or Endless Enigma. While I'm certain that ELP took themselves seriously it's kind of refreshing to know that they are able to take a step back and see a little bit of humor in what they are doing. This is something that i find many prog musicians/bands lack. |
Posted By: martinprog77
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 04:05
|
you find a lot of humor and sex in jethro tull.or elp ''love beach''where they dress like the bee gees in the cover.i cant stop laughting on that one ------------- Nothing can last there are no second chances. Never give a day away. Always live for today. |
Posted By: R o V e R
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 04:43
|
Check out Emeson Lake & Palmers songs
like "Benny the bouncer" -Brain Salad Surgery "The Sheriff" - Trilogy |
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 08:31
| Humor fits to everything, but it makes the subject then appealing mostly to a group sharing the appetite for the humor used. |
Posted By: yarstruly
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 12:36
|
I guess I should quote Echolyn, quoting Willy Wonka, by saying "A Little Nonsense Now & Then Is Relished by the Wisest Men!" ------------- Facebook hashtags: #100greatestprogrockchallenge #scottssongbysong #scottsspotlight |
Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 16:10
Is this thread some kind of a joke? Is Peter Gabriel a comedian? Wipe those smiles off your faces, this is a place for serious discussion about prog, which is a very serious genre. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: YesForSure
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 17:03
| I think it does.. Most of my favourite bands include humour in some of their music.. like Mike Oldfield, Jethro Tull, Focus.. |
Posted By: SolariS
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 19:20
|
FZ belongs in prog! a lot of times his humor comes through story-telling which is timeless. -------------  
|
Posted By: yarstruly
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 10:22
|
I'm not sure that everyone understood where I was going with this...I was trying to be clever (though apparantly not completely original) by paraphrasing FZ....Of course there IS humor there, and I think it should be there, but is it LOST on some prog fans who take either themselves, their favorite prog artists, or the songs too seriously? In other words are some of us missing the jokes? ------------- Facebook hashtags: #100greatestprogrockchallenge #scottssongbysong #scottsspotlight |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 12:39
|
Many British bands love their puns - Genesis (pun after pun on British retailers amongst others on Can-Utility), in particular! Similarly album titles as puns or word games - although Love had some of the best (e.g. Forever Changes), and I note quite a number of Scandanavian bands readily can play these games too.
However, my favourite is from fringe proggers Capability Brown: Keep death off the road, drive on the pavement.
|
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 13:18
A little cross-cultural translation is in order here, I see!
 That one only works in Britain, Dicklington. In North America, the pavement is the road -- what you call "the pavement," we call the sidewalk.(For us, "pavement" is another name for asphalt, as opposed to concrete, which our sidewalks are made from).  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 18:09
Peter The well know Anglophile and travel writer Bill Brysden has written a couple excellent guides to the separation of the English language into British and American. I suppose what shocked a lot of Brit who had thought America has corrupted the language, is in fact than Americans tend to retain old English more than the Brits - 'pavement/sidewalk' is one pair example Brysden quotes - 'sidewalk' being Elizabethan/Shakespearian English,' pavement' is more recent use this side of the Atlantic, possibly because of the use of paving stones from the Victorian period. I'm reminded of my first stay in the USA - 2 months in Lancaster PA - I used to crack puns and occasionally I would get a smile, and the reaction: 'Hey Monty Pyhton humor' - then after a brief laugh, the further commment - 'I don't understand Monty Python'. However, I get the Capability Brown pun and it is fairly smart to slip it into a song. Then 'pardon me' is one of those American expressions that doesn't quite mean the same over here. 'Pardon me' is often used in the UK as a half hearted apology for (accidently) breaking wind. So there is the possibility when a Brit is talking to an American, and with the American not quite understanding, then interrupts with "pardon me", the Brit will stop, sniff the air and think the American has silently farted. |
Posted By: oldebag
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 19:01
of course!!! Life is funny, sad, weird, twisted, and etc. That's why this music (prog) is so important! Remember satire?, black comedy, the old "tongue in cheek"? Music keeps us, ( i.e. me) sane...... Humour keeps our perspective. complex concept!!! I think, therefore ,I laugh!!
|
Posted By: Ovide
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 16:58
|
Well, IMO, saying humor doesn't belong in prog is about as stupid as saying that the surrealist movement doesn't belong in litterature. Or that Monty Python's Quest for The Holy Grail shouldn't be considered a movie. Humor is a means of escape and a light yet efficient form of social and behaviourial criticism. It shouldn't be shunned from the entire sphere of human emotions. It belongs in prog because prog is about the expression of the soul through music and damn, if your soul never laughs, you're already dead, my friend. ------------- Ack! Knowledge! |
Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: October 27 2006 at 14:08
| Of course humour belongs in prog. Same as a 'u' belongs in humour. Not that I harbour any grudges |
Posted By: purplepiper
Date Posted: October 27 2006 at 17:19
|
A taste of humor can add to a song, as long as it is used sparingly. If I recall, genesis put some little bits of humor in their music and I find their music to kick ass! I guess a band has to be able to 'pull off' the humor though. |
Posted By: Nowhere Man
Date Posted: October 27 2006 at 18:16
Humor is fine as long it doesn't take up a good deal of the song. I like the way Kansas named the subtitles of Magnum Opus.  ------------- 
|
Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: October 28 2006 at 18:27
That's a standard misconception. He actually has a good sense of humor. ------------- 
|
Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: October 30 2006 at 23:06
|
I might be moving to Montana soon, to raise me a crop of...........humourless progsters........
Perish the thought! ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: October 30 2006 at 23:25
|
someone said Robert Fripp is an unfunny man, or something like that. True it may not show much in his music, but he is definitly a man of humor. have u not heard live KC albums? he's "Chuckles Fripp" for gosh darns sake.. haha
another man mistaken for lack of humor is Roger Waters he's a very funny, intelligent man. he even said in an interview about "The Wall" movie that the only thing he regrets about the movie is the lack of humor in the film, for a kind of breather. he said hes a man of humor, but didnt feel the need at the time to include any in the movie.
some great prog bands/muscians with humor would be Zappa, Phish, Dream Theater, LTE, Mr. Bungle and Gentle Giant (at least i find humor in them)
if theres any band id like to see add some humor to their music once in a while would be Opeth. though idk if thatd work in their favor, being their songs are extremely emotional, sometimes sad and depressing. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
|
Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: October 31 2006 at 07:56
Thank you, new one! If humor was not supposed to be a part of prog, Genesis and Jethro Tull never would have been as big as they were (when they were great in the 1970s, mind you). Proggers who think prog should be just about 'serious' topics and not about humor do not understand the appeal of the genre (especially to males who find humor in Monty Python, etc.)
|