Just bought a cheap record player ...
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Tech Talk
Forum Description: Discuss musical instruments, equipment, hi-fi, speakers, vinyl, gadgets,etc.
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28903
Printed Date: November 28 2024 at 15:48
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Just bought a cheap record player ...
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Subject: Just bought a cheap record player ...
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 07:53
... so after more than 15 years of vinyl abstinence ... I'm back! Now in order to spark some really nasty comments from my audiophile friends ... let me show you which model I bought: Dual CS 410 http://dual-reference.com/tables/cs410.htm - http://dual-reference.com/tables/cs410.htm Quite an entry level model for 130€ ... but I only have a cheap Harman-Kardon amp and Elac cabinets, so from an audiophile standpoint I'm a hopeless case anyway!  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Replies:
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 08:06
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 08:07
 don't worry olivier ... *you* won't have to listen to it!
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 08:19
Don't know much of the quality of different models, but at least there doesn't seem to be anything unneccesary in it, and there is no "cool" visual style included in the model causing extra fees. A vinyl turntable is always better than no vinyl turntable, so 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 08:23
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I had been thinking about buying a turntable for a few months ... then today I sold a big part of my collection (>100 CDs, 50 Maxi CDs, 20 DVDs) and thought - hey, there are so many cool out of print vinyls in this used items store, why not buy yourself a cheap player and get some vinyls again! I'll see how it goes - if I enjoy putting on vinyls at home, I might end up buying a better turntable around christmas. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 08:31
Vinyls are great! (warning: one can get a serious fetish about them) 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 08:41
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^ I must admit that they definitely look way better than any CD. I think I'll buy some new vinyls (Opeth, Porcupine Tree) and many many used ones. I still have 100€ left over from the sale I mentioned in the previous post. The albums cost 4€ on average, so I can buy more than 20 albums!
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 09:08
| ^ Start checking out flea markets as you have time, you can find real gems with ½-1€! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 09:15
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Of course with vinyls there's a greater risk involved in used items ... I guess that most really cheap vinyls will be scratched or damaged. For the time being I'll stick to my favorite 2nd hand music store - it's the biggest in my town, and it has relations to stores in 3 other towns and every 2-3 weeks they swap all the items. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 09:44
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Just take very good care of the stylus. Those can get pretty expensive to replace. If you can find a replacement at all. You definitely don't want to play really beat up albums on it. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 09:47
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^ thats an advantage of this cheap player - the stylus is quite inexpensive (20€) and widely available. And I'll definitely not buy really worn albums ... I *hate* scratches!
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:04
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I have a record player in the UK with no stylus. They stopped selling them in WH Smith. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10"> 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:12
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...2000 lightyears further.... Arm RB 300 
Deck Planar 3 
Dynavector moving coil 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:14
I want to! Please invite me! |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:16
They may have dust which can be washed away, and some scratches which may snap, but they work usually better than used CD's, I'll guarrantee that!
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Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:17
I can't say anything about the technical qualities of that player, but I wouldn't want such candybar to my house!
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:18
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MAIN TIPS FOR KEEPING AND CLEANING VYNILS First, a tool to use each time you play your record, is the felt brush, like the one pictured below. It's much better than the cloth cause it doesn't loose it hairs. This kind of brush removes both dust and static electricity. There's no specific brand, but the one provided with the "Metanac" (see further, and picture below) is good. TO CLEAN THE VYNILS: There are many products. The "Metanac" is a good and efficient product that you simply apply directly on the record with the felt brush. Another way is to do his own cleaning liquid, proceeding as follow: -1/3 90°c alcohol -2/3 distilled water -A few drops of neutral soap (without detergent, very important). You have to wash your records with that liquid, using a soft matter to softly rub, or throwing the liquid on the vynil using a kind of water gun. Then there's the drying issue, which is to find a way to remove water without adding hairs by rubbing with a cloth. Then, for the cartridge keeping, there are two things: -Cartridge demagnetizer (any brand, make a search on the net). You have to do it from times to times. -Cartidge stylus cleaner liquid (any brand, make a search on the net). You have to do it from times to times. Here are the main products to start, considering that there are many products, solutions for it. There are even sophisticated and expensive record cleaner machines. Metanac record cleaning product with its felt brush: 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:19
^ tomorrow we'll see ... if I win the lottery I promise I will buy an audiophile turntable.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:19
I agree with you! Fortunatly, it's available in a wide colour range: 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:20
Sell back your damn PC! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:21
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^ so how much would the lowest "acceptable" turntable cost in your opinion?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:22
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600/700€ new, Rega planar 3, including RB300 excellent arm and super Elyss nice cartridge! 300€ on second hand |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:23
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^ that's complete with stylus/cartridge?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:26
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Yes, including RB300 excellent arm and super Elyss nice cartridge. Not only a budget turntable, but an excellent one, and a great source in the absolute! |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 10:29
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...all technical details on Rega webiste: http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm - http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 11:02
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i had a Dual CD506 in 1981, it was an excellent budget turntable, though an upgrade to a Rega Planar 3 would be a big improvement - like Oliver said!! -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 11:07
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You own a Planar 3 yourself, that's it? |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 12:04
yes, and a Linn Sondek - even better!
 ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 16:49
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I confirm
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 12:01
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Hey Oliver, I have an old turntable at home, and it could be
interesting to know if it's worth keeping, or if I should get a new
one. It's a Technics SL-150MK2, with an SME Series III arm. The cartridge
is an old AKG P8ES, which I will replace soon because it needs a new
stylus, and those are not in production anymore. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: October 04 2006 at 06:11
| ...only the arm is worth keeping. |
Posted By: Australian
Date Posted: October 04 2006 at 06:22
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We have two record players, both with no stylus. So there are 300 + records sitting in a cupboard. Still looking of a stylus though...
------------- 
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: October 04 2006 at 10:57
I was expecting something like that. I'll look for places to buy the Rega turntable you recommended. |
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: October 05 2006 at 05:11
I got my used Technics turntable for ca. 120€ about eight years ago. Has served well, but I can't verify any Hi-fi qualities of it due to my poor hearing.
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Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: October 05 2006 at 05:12
Try Ebay or some else online buy/sell service!
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Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: October 06 2006 at 08:24
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Oh dear. I expect that the purists will have a go at me for this but I say don't waste your money on expensive turntables. Obviously cheap ones will sound noticably worse but the Dual model initially mentioned will do the job.
Vinyl is, as a media, inherantly flawed anyway. Anything that relies on contact between a stylus and a groove will sound subtly different each time you play it as the last time will have knocked bits off the grooves. That's why the hf goes first, because the undulations in the groove are much smaller and more delicate. The "warm" sound of vinyl is mostly the lack of clear hf. Add to that the fact that you need to boost the lf because the grooves aren't physically big enough to allow the undulations, boost the hf because of induction losses in the pickup coils and amplify a tiny electrical signal thus picking up amplifier noise and you soon get a sound that is far removed from the original. The fact that the system is analogue means that vibrations and motor noise are easily picked up (rumble) and that any damage to the grooves will be picked up as audio (the pops, clicks and scratches that you hear).
I know that a lot of people still prefer vinyl and the "warm" sound that it gives (that warmth is distortion as mentioned earlier) but a decent digital system is a far more faithful reproduction.
The reason that CDs will continue into the future alongside MP3 and other compressed formats is that a well produced and clean CD is about as good as you need to get. You can have more and bigger digital samples (as used in recording studios) but I defy most people to hear the difference.
Vinyl may be fun and definitely holds some good memories for me but I would always prefer a good CD player (there are bad ones).
As a qualified BBC radio audio engineer I feel that I am qualified to hold this view; but at the end of the day we like what we like and if you prefer vinyl then that's great too.
Neil.
------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: October 06 2006 at 09:06
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Even a worn (good) vynil works better than a CD.
Like a worn tube sound better than any solid state (in the highs at least) cause it's far superior. Analog is much more transparent (among other) than any numeric format will ever be. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: October 06 2006 at 09:13
| Not only Cd is very limited itself, but most (rock/progrock) Cds are so badly trafficked today with over compressed dynamic and overbumped low, that you’re forced to go back to the vynil to have a equilibrate/natural sound. Even good labels such as ECM have half of their CDs sounding bumped and trafficked... |
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: October 06 2006 at 09:40
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I understand why some prefer CD over vinyl, but for me the vinyl is most dearest media in music, especially in rock music. It's probably true that with CD or DVD one can get more cleaner sound, only ofcourse in case that the disc is without scratches. In my opinion it's much more easier to destroy a digital disc than vinyl recording. But I have some jazz and classical as modern digital recordings, and as I listen them with high volume, the overall sound is "cleaner" as there's no dust on the disc and with multiple loudspeaker one can create very strong senses of space and depth. Still, when I listen vintage music, the raw audio mechanisms boost the sound to the right direction, and f.e.x some 60's recordings sound very cool when I attach my Fender Bassman 10 amplifier as a bonus loudspeaker, and torture the neighbors with CREAM's BBC sessions!
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