Classical Music influences in Prog
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Topic: Classical Music influences in Prog
Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Subject: Classical Music influences in Prog
Date Posted: January 05 2005 at 07:14
Progressive Rock artists have paid homage to Classical Music in three ways:
1. Arrangement of a classical piece, e.g. NEW TROLLS ATOMIC SYSTEM's 'Una Notte Sul Monte Calvo' (Mussorgsky's 'Night On Bare Mountain').
2. Adaptation ('twisting') of a classical piece, e.g. ELP's "Pictures At An Exhibition".
3. Classically influenced original composition, e.g. BANCO's "...di Terra".
Above I have given one example in each category. What examples (famous and obscure) do you know?
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Replies:
Posted By: Alucard
Date Posted: January 05 2005 at 11:27
Interesting topic, I think you got bands who think horizontal, by harmonizing a melody line in quiet linear fashion even when they get a very large orchestral sound ,and you have bands like Gentle Giant, Echolyn, Yes, Banco, Orme who work vertically and horizontally at the same time by guiding and contrasting the voices in a composition like classical composers in counterpoint . IMHO GG has the most traditional and the most dense classical(Baroque &Rennaissance) arrangements. Most of the keyboard players are classical trained and Know how chords fit together, which inversion works best etc(T.Banks for "moody" minor chords, Wakeman, King of scales and Emerson the orchestral powerhorse) Keyboard players are kind of priviliged for the overall arrangements. Zappa is really an exception, being a composer in the most traditional sense of the word : putting black dots on sheet paper and having musicians perform it(more or less good). Zappa was influenced by Bartok, Stravinsky and Nancarrow but his music is so unique; He got a lot of problems with "classical trained musicians performing his compositions. (read the comments he made about it in "orchestral stupidities" in his biography)
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Posted By: mirco
Date Posted: January 05 2005 at 11:38
Il rovescio della medaglia's Contaminazione, based on some interludes and fugues from Bach's Well tempered clavicord, as it is claimed on the album cover. I'm not sure about the category, but is between 1 and 2.
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Posted By: benny bouncer
Date Posted: January 05 2005 at 11:59
i know ELP did loads of stuff with classical music....Emerson gets a lot of inspiration from it...Jazz also
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Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: January 05 2005 at 12:01
classical music is part of the foundation of European
progressive music. The guitar is more used for
atmosphere while the piano/keyboard takes a
dominant role.
southern blues guitarist were a major influence in
england and america and the guitar plays the main
role, piano keyboards are general used opposite to
the european style.
both schools of taught are affected by jazz.
this seems to limit americans the most in enjoying
european music as it upsets their balance and
mental training.
So as far as classical music influences go, the
american audience seems to require a big ripping
guitar and moody piano parts seem to be a
hinderence. Classical is OK but let them boys
boogie woogie seems to be the motto.
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They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing
band
It ain't what they call rock and roll
And the Sultans played Creole
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Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 18:16
Any more you can think of?
Here are a few more:
- MAGO DE OZ "La Leyenda De La Mancha" has a classical interlude in the track 'El Santo Gial', at machine gun speed using rock instruments and fiddle, playing a very well-known classical tune (Brahms' Hungarian Dance No. 5 in f sharp minor). This would be Type 1 (see my earlier post).
- LOS CANARIOS "Ciclos" is based around Vivaldi's The Four Seasons. This would be Type 2.
- ELP's s/t first album has ‘The Barbarian’, the trio’s heavy interpretation of Bartók’s "Allegro Barbaro. Type 2.
- ELP's s/t first album has ‘Knife-Edge’, the trio’s interpretation of the first movement (Allegretto, Allegro, Maestoso) of Janáček’s Sinfonietta for orchestra, Opus 60. Again. Type 2.
- ELP's "Tarkus" uses a snippet of Bach's Toccata in F and Prelude VI in the intro and bridge, respectively, of 'The Only Way (Hymn)'. Type 1, maybe 2, I suppose.
- ELP's "Trilogy" has ‘Hoedown’, ELP’s interpretation of modern American composer Aaron Copland’s ‘Hoe-Down’ from his ballet score “Rodeo.” 'That would be a Type 1. Abaddon's Bolero' on the same album is a bolero and thus a Type 3.
- ‘Toccata’ on "Brain Salad Surgery" is an adaptation of the Argentinean composer Alberto Ginastera’s Piano Concerto No. 1 Opus 28, 4th Movement (Toccata concertata). Type 2 for this one.
- ELP's "Works Vol. 1" has several classical adaptations: 'The Enemy God Dances With The Black Spirits' is an excerpt from "The Scythian Suite" 2nd Movement by Prokofiev (Type 1 or maybe 2) and 'Two Part Invention In D Minor' is a percussion twist on a Bach piece, thus Type 2. And not forgetting the uber-famous 'Fanfare For The Common Man', which is a twist on Copeland's piece of the same name, so Type 2.
- ELP's ‘Canario’, the only decent track on "Love Beach" in my opinion, is an instrumental: the band’s interpretation of Rodrigo’s ‘Fantasia Para Un Gentilhombre’ by Spanish composer Joaquin Rodrigo. Type 2, I suppose.
- ‘Romeo and Juliet’ is ELP’s arrangement of the superb ‘Dance of the Knights’ from Prokofiev’s score for the ballet Romeo and Juliet (or the equivalent ‘The Montagues and Capulets’ from the orchestral suite Romeo and Juliet Suite No. 2 Opus 64ter). This is a Type 1.
- 'Mars, Bringer Of War' is ELP's twist on Mars from Gustav Holst's The Planets. Type 2 here, I think.
There are loads more from many Progressive Rock groups.
Can you add to the list?
------------- http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=326" rel="nofollow - Read reviews by Fitzcarraldo
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Posted By: R o V e R
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 19:44
Ritchie Blackmore Rainbow-Hall of the mountain king
(Arrangment) From Edward Greg's "Peer Giant" suite
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 22:30
Some more:
- Cans & Brahms: Arrangement of Allegro Giocoso (third movement) of Brahms' 4th symphony
- Night on the Bare Mountain: Par Lind Project on Mussorgsky's Night on the Bald Mountain..
- Night on the Bald Mountain: By Fireballet idem N° 2
- Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor: California Guitar Trio, a guitar arrangement for Bach's masterpiece.
- In the Hall of the Mountain King: Played by Rick Wakeman in Journey to the Centre of the Earth, from Peer Gynt by Grieg
- Gaudete: Medieval Gregorian Chant by Miranda Sex Garden, Galahad and Steeleye Span
- William Tell Overture: PFM arrengement of the homonimous work by Rossini
- Flight of the Bumblebee: By Dream Theater from the homonimous piece by Rimsky Korsakov.
- Ride of the Valkyrie: Mastermind, from the Opera by Richard Wagner
- William Tell Overture: By Mastermind idem N° 7
Iván
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 22:42
Have a listen to Ekspetion!
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 22:43
I'd like to add the splendid version of Debussy's "Clair de Lune" by SAGRADO CORAÇÃO DA TERRA... with beautiful lyrics in Portuguese - impressive, unique, fabulous!
------------- Guigo
~~~~~~
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Posted By: yesfan88
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 23:49
King Crimson did a version of Holst's "Mars" from the Planets suite. I heard it on a live album my friend had...I forgot what they called it. Apparently Metallica also did a version, but Metallica generally makes me want to vomit.
------------- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"- Evelyn Beatrice Hall
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Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 03:06
PROCOL HARUM's "Whiter Shade of Pale" and more strongly "Repent Walpurgis"
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 05:48
Let us welcome back an favourite thread from the dead.
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Posted By: peroxidess
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 06:16
Mars Volta-The Bach Song?
------------- The universe is in constant pursuit of a celestial home.
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Posted By: Dragon Phoenix
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 06:50
Renaissance - Scheherazade suite quotes from Rimsky-Korsakov's
Scheherazade. This is one of the few occassions where classical music
is used tastefully in prog IMHO.
Another one not yet mentioned I think is Joybringer by MMEB (Holst - Jupiter from The Planets).
------------- Blog this:
http://artrock2006.blogspot.com
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 06:57
Mother Gong use the theme of Ravel's "Introduction & Allegro for harp, flute, clarinet & string quartet" for the track "The Three Tongues" from their album "Fairy Tales" and even improve the theme slightly (the first 4 bars of the beginning of the theme are repeated in Ravel's version; in Mother Gong's version the last note of these 4 bars goes up instead of down in the repetition, which is in my opinion an improvement)
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 07:29
BaldJean wrote:
Mother Gong use the theme of Ravel's "Introduction & Allegro for harp, flute, clarinet & string quartet" for the track "The Three Tongues" from their album "Fairy Tales" and even improve the theme slightly (the first 4 bars of the beginning of the theme are repeated in Ravel's version; in Mother Gong's version the last note of these 4 bars goes up instead of down in the repetition, which is in my opinion an improvement)
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Interesting! i have to give it another listen.
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 07:31
yesfan88 wrote:
King Crimson did a version of Holst's "Mars" from the Planets suite. I heard it on a live album my friend had...I forgot what they called it. Apparently Metallica also did a version, but Metallica generally makes me want to vomit. |
Don't attack metal! you may be censored
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 08:49
Dragon Phoenix wrote:
Renaissance - Scheherazade suite quotes from Rimsky-Korsakov's
Scheherazade. This is one of the few occassions where classical music
is used tastefully in prog IMHO.
Another one not yet mentioned I think is Joybringer by MMEB (Holst - Jupiter from The Planets).
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Trouble is, Renaissance also tastelessy quoted Beethoven's "Pathetique" Sonata in one piece - I forget which, as it was so awful, but I think it is on "Turn of the Cards".
More tasteful is Andrew Lloyd Webber's "Variations" (On a theme of Paganini), which draws more on Rachmaninov than Paganini, but is nonetheless quite brilliant.
On the flip side, the Butcher Shop Quartet have produced an amazing arrangement of Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" for rock band.
And you can't talk about "Classical" music in prog without mentioning The Enid, who are/were the very best at incorporating orchestral music with prog.
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 11:44
oliverstoned wrote:
[QUOTE=yesfan88] King Crimson did a version of Holst's "Mars" from the Planets suite. I heard it on a live album my friend had...I forgot what they called it. |
The first incarnation of King Crimson performed a version of Mars (heavy on the mellotron!) when they played live. There are a few recordings available, including on Epitaph Volumes 1 & 2. By the time KC recorded In the Wake of Poseidon it had evolved into The Devil's Triangle but still sounded very similar to the original.
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 12:49
A B Negative wrote:
oliverstoned wrote:
[QUOTE=yesfan88] King Crimson did a version of Holst's "Mars" from the Planets suite. I heard it on a live album my friend had...I forgot what they called it. |
The first incarnation of King Crimson performed a version of Mars (heavy on the mellotron!) when they played live. There are a few recordings available, including on Epitaph Volumes 1 & 2. By the time KC recorded In the Wake of Poseidon it had evolved into The Devil's Triangle but still sounded very similar to the original.
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Anekdoten on an early demo cassette that floats amongst the devotees, has 3 Krimson covers - including something called Mars.........(less Holst more KC than anything)
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Posted By: bsurmano
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 17:29
Eetu Pellonpää wrote:
PROCOL HARUM's "Whiter Shade of Pale" and more strongly "Repent Walpurgis" |
Nice jazz/rock variation of famous Bach chord used in ' A Whiter Shade Of Pale' came in Colosseum's 'Beware The Ides Of March' on their first album.
------------- 'Sundown,yellow moon, I replay the past
I know every scene by heart, they all went by so fast.....
Either I'm too sensitive or else I'm gettin' soft.'
Bob Dylan
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Posted By: melomano
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 18:08
R o V e R wrote:
Ritchie Blackmore Rainbow-Hall of the mountain king
(Arrangment) From Edward Greg's "Peer Giant" suite |
And many other too... Rick Wakeman and ELO versions are probably the most known. This is like a standard, as "So What" in jazz.
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 18:14
melomano wrote:
R o V e R wrote:
Ritchie Blackmore Rainbow-Hall of the mountain king
(Arrangment) From Edward Greg's "Peer Giant" suite |
And many other too... Rick Wakeman and ELO versions are probably the most known. This is like a standard, as "So What" in jazz.
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it's "Peer Gynt" and not "Peer Giant" . and it is Edvard Grieg, not Greg
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 19:18
How about THE NICE? Kind of a mix between Type 1 and Type 2. THE NICE was twisting classics and jazz like mad from 1967 and 1971.
- Intermezzo from Sibelius' Karelia Suite on "Ars Longa Vita Brevis".
- A movement from Bach's Brandenburg Concerto No. 3 also on "Ars Longa Vita Brevis".
- Tchaikovsky's Pathetique Symphony No. 6 3rd Movement on "Five Bridges Suite".
- Brandenburg Concerto No. 6 on "Five Bridges Suite".
- Leonard Bernstein's West Side Story America (2nd Movement) on "Elegy" which has a smattering of Dvořák's Symphony No. 9 (New World Symphony).
But if you read the Wikipedia write-up on THE NICE you'll see that there are several quotes in other THE NICE tracks to classical composers (Rachmaninoff and Lalo, to name two) plus jazz composers. Actually, until I read the article I did not realise just how many classical and jazz (and pop, and rock) quotes THE NICE used in their tracks. Makes me even more impressed with the group actually, even if some of what they were playing was not completely original. This was progressive rock without a doubt: rock with classical and jazz quotes and influences, plus rocked-up, twisted versions of the classics and jazz pieces. It sure as Hell wasn't bog-standard rock or pop-rock.
------------- http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=326" rel="nofollow - Read reviews by Fitzcarraldo
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 02:13
Peter and the Wolf, A Prog Fairytale
A complete Fusion version of Prokofiev's work with this excelent cast:
The Cast: - Narrator / Vivian Stnshall - Peter / Manfred Mann - Bird / Gary Brooker - Duck / Chris Spedding - Duck / Gary Moore - Cat / Stephane Grappelli - Wolf / Brian Eno - Pond / Keith Tippett - Grandfather / Jack Lancaster - Hunters / Jon Hiseman, Bill Bruford, Cozy Powell, Phil Collins
Additional Musicians: - John Goodsall, Pete Haywood, Alvin Lee / guitars - Percy Jones, Andy Pyle, Dave Marquee / bass - Robin Lumley / keyboards - Cozy Powell & Phil Collins / drums - Bernie Frost, Julie Tippetts, The English Chorale / vocals
Iván
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Posted By: pero
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 02:52
Ravel's Bolero challenges many musicians: Jeff Beck, Zappa, ELP
Eumir Deodato - album "Prelude" - Also sprach Zaratustra (Strauss), Prelude to the afternoon of the Faun (Debussy), Baubles, Bangles and Beads (Borodin)
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 08:22
Artists/bands (not necessarily prog) that come to mind when talking about classical connections :
The Enid
Sagrado Coraçao da Terra
Marco Antonio Araujo
Jethro Tull
The Nice
ELP
Steve Hackett
Vitalij Kuprij
Tony McAlpine
Yngwie Malmsteen
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 21:14
Eric Satie inTony Banks Aaron Copland in ELP,Bach in Yngwie Malmsteen AND jon lord, tchaikovski in Cozy Powell,Rossini in Marillion
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Posted By: andu
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 07:35
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Peter and the Wolf, A Prog Fairytale
A complete Fusion version of Prokofiev's work with this excelent cast:
The Cast: - Narrator / Vivian Stnshall - Peter / Manfred Mann - Bird / Gary Brooker - Duck / Chris Spedding - Duck / Gary Moore - Cat / Stephane Grappelli - Wolf / Brian Eno - Pond / Keith Tippett - Grandfather / Jack Lancaster - Hunters / Jon Hiseman, Bill Bruford, Cozy Powell, Phil Collins
Additional Musicians: - John Goodsall, Pete Haywood, Alvin Lee / guitars - Percy Jones, Andy Pyle, Dave Marquee / bass - Robin Lumley / keyboards - Cozy Powell & Phil Collins / drums - Bernie Frost, Julie Tippetts, The English Chorale / vocals
Iván |
wooow, brilliant line-up, i guess it surely done an awesome job, i'll look for it. it's an ALL STAR line up.
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 10:18
Perhaps the most classically oriented of the classical prog bands are Sky and The Enid. Neither do much for me- 'classical rock' itself rarely does. Something about Sky and The Enid I find rather cheesy, but lots of people like them so what do I know? I love 'Pictures At An Exhibition' and whether it's all that faithful or respectful doesn't worry me (I did hear the original version in a music lesson around 4 years ago)- I just love their interpretation. I also love Rick Wakeman's early albums. That said, Keith Emerson's 'Piano Concerto' which was an attempt to do a modern classical piece was rather obvious ego massaging, imo. I don't like that much at all.
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 11:56
Some Bach anybody:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIo7RN2lHAM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIo7RN2lHAM
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