I have been reading and writing music for three decades.

I used to transcribe music for Francis Rossi.

It was really difficult, and I got laid off.

After that I went down,down deeper and down!

Eddy wrote: heheh im very weird, but i do qacttually make tons of music. all the fricken time. im like a fricken machine. whenever im bored i actually make up a sweet as tune in my head, not just like with one instrement, but actually with a whole band playing! i know im weird! whenever i get the chgance, i dont write it down on a peice of papoer, i actallly have a music program which i make music, i got it from my music class along time ago in 5th graade, i asked amy teacher if i could have a copy of it! the only problem though is that it is very limited and basic, so my music gets a little converted when i do put it in. i say i can make 3 songs a day. maybee ill release all my 300 plus songs some day....  i guess im like prog bassit

I have voices in my head too, Eddy!...they say throw a brick thru Reed's window.

I identify notes absolutely and immediately - because I have perfect pitch. I can even identify clusters of notes - it used to be a party piece of mine until I got bored of doing it.

I read and write music like I read and write the English language - I passed grade 8 theory when I was 15, having skipped grades 6 and 7 because they were far too easy.

I specialised in composition as the major part of my degree - for which I got a starred first. Aural tests are a speciality of mine - I can spot most composers within a few bars, tell a violin from a viola, a cornet from a trumpet and a cornett from a sackbutt.

But at the end of the day, none of it matters - I have more tools at my disposal with which to enjoy and create music than most people (which is why I have an honours degree and a load of other bits of paper to say so), but anyone with a true artistic inclination can craft great art using the most basic tools, and ANYONE can enjoy music on their own level.

That said, acquiring these tools can make music even more enjoyable, as you gain greater understanding of the components and can appreciate technical tricks and become more aware of interplay between the different parts. You start to enjoy music on MORE levels, not HIGHER ones.

...and you can't acquire perfect pitch - you have to be born with it, I'm afraid. You can develop relative pitch though; once you know a given note, you can work out what another one is simply by understanding the sound made by intervals. Of all aural work, intervals are the most tedious for people without perfect pitch - but also the most important.

I'm a 3 chords or nearest offer guitarist of many years' standing, but I wouldn't claim to have any in depth musical knowledge - I can follow the top line of a score, understand time signatures and that's about it.

My partner is a classically trained musician and singer who also composes. Her perspective on a lot of music I enjoy is very interesting - for her, the musical structure is the first thing which grabs her attention, whereas I tend to respond to a particular sound (e.g. moog or mellotron). She's not a big prog fan, but the bits she does like she likes a lot.

I currently lecture in English Literature in the Ontario area, but a couple of years ago I taught music when in my native Chicago.

I read music,and can 'transcribe'. Play most instruments too (ie I can knock a tune out) and pick out most instruments 'in a crowd'.

I wouldn't say I have perfect pitch, as I do not believe such a thing exists and anyone who claims to have that facility is a fantasist.

In my opinion you do not need any facility in theoretical music to appreciate it.I find that hinting 'I know better than you because I can read/play' is just elitist bullsh*t.It is one way for the old to try and outdo the young and usually fails.
BTW at 28 I feel I have already out-achieved most of the boring old pretenders on this forum. Perfect pitch or no.

Reed Lover wrote: I have been reading and writing music for three decades. I used to transcribe music for Francis Rossi. It was really difficult, and I got laid off. After that I went down,down deeper and down!

Difficult? I'm no music maestro, but Quo only knew three chords..

Blacksword wrote: Reed Lover wrote: I have been reading and writing music for three decades. I used to transcribe music for Francis Rossi. It was really difficult, and I got laid off. After that I went down,down deeper and down!   Difficult? I'm no music maestro, but Quo only knew three chords..

Bloody hell Blackie, I am lying!!!

Reed Lover wrote: Blacksword wrote: Reed Lover wrote: I have been reading and writing music for three decades. I used to transcribe music for Francis Rossi. It was really difficult, and I got laid off. After that I went down,down deeper and down!   Difficult? I'm no music maestro, but Quo only knew three chords.. Bloody hell Blackie, I am lying!!!

All that, just so you could do your 'down down deeper and down' joke!!!??

Did you know they had removed the word gullible from the Oxford dictionary?

Shocktaktix wrote: I wouldn't say I have perfect pitch, as I do not believe such a thing exists and anyone who claims to have that facility is a fantasist.

You've obviously never met someone who has it then - or because you don't have it, you don't understand how anyone could

I have met two other people that have it in my entire life - and would agree that in those two it was a little hit and miss, as they could not do clusters, and got confused by notes outside of their singing range. Within their ranges, they were 100% though.

I must be very lucky, as I can identify every note on most pianos (when they're out of tune it's difficult - as you might understand!) - and any other instrument except, perhaps, those of far Eastern origin...

Blacksword wrote: Reed Lover wrote: Blacksword wrote: Reed Lover wrote: I have been reading and writing music for three decades. I used to transcribe music for Francis Rossi. It was really difficult, and I got laid off. After that I went down,down deeper and down!   Difficult? I'm no music maestro, but Quo only knew three chords.. Bloody hell Blackie, I am lying!!! All that, just so you could do your 'down down deeper and down' joke!!!?? Did you know they had removed the word gullible from the Oxford dictionary?

and replaced it with Blacksword?

..oh really, have they??

Certif1ed wrote: Shocktaktix wrote: I wouldn't say I have perfect pitch, as I do not believe such a thing exists and anyone who claims to have that facility is a fantasist.   You've obviously never met someone who has it then - or because you don't have it, you don't understand how anyone could I have met two other people that have it in my entire life - and would agree that in those two it was a little hit and miss, as they could not do clusters, and got confused by notes outside of their singing range. Within their ranges, they were 100% though. I must be very lucky, as I can identify every note on most pianos (when they're out of tune it's difficult - as you might understand!) - and any other instrument except, perhaps, those of far Eastern origin...

Actually I think he is trying to provoke you Cert !

oO cert, you have perfect pitch? omg, you're lucky ....

so you could write the notes of a song down after hearing it?

I don't know Bebe... I have 2 friends that have perfect pitch, they both play keyboards very well...and both have very bad migraines... don't know if its all part of some package... but I wouldn't want it!

BebieM wrote: oO cert, you have perfect pitch? omg, you're lucky .... so you could write the notes of a song down after hearing it?

Lucky in that, yes, I can write down every note of a song after hearing it - including the instrumental parts.

Lucky that I don't ever get migraines.

Unlucky in that I love choral singing, but if one person in a choir sings out of tune consistently, it really upsets me in a way I cannot rationalise, and I have to leave the choir.

I've been in a LOT of choirs

Except for not having perfect pitch (I have what is called "perfect relative pitch," which means I need only hear one note to identify every other note or chord in an entire piece), I'm very much in Cert's corner here.

I started theory when I was 5 years old, as part of a "pilot" class developed by Carl Orff (which, along with Suzuki, has become the standard for teaching music to children).  I started classical piano when I was 7 (two years before my music school permitted private lessons), and played my first piano recital (to a sold-out audience of about 300) when I was 8.  I took classical piano for 5 years, but ended up leaving it for jazz and pop, which I took for three years.  I continued with theory as well, reaching "advanced" composition when I was 14.  I then attended the High School of Music & Art, where I continued to take theory, as well as vocal training (I was already singing when I was 7).  As an aside, I was pianist for the HSMA Jazz Band, voted #1 high school jazz band three years in a row.  The drummer was Kenny Washington (perhaps the most sought after jazz drummer in the world today) and the bassist was Marcus Miller (who went on to produce Herbie Hancock's Grammy-winning "Rockit" album, as well as making quite a name for himself as a session bassist).

All in all, I had over 13 years continuous theory training, as well as almost 10 years of piano, vocal and drum/percussion training.

Having musical training is a double-edged sword vis-a-vis enjoying music.  On the one hand, it can clearly enhance what one hears when one understands how a piece was composed, executed, etc.  However, it can also "interfere" because a musician can never not be a musician, so it is impossible to "turn it off" if one wants to listen to something in a "pure" way.

Peace.

ok, can one of you guys maybe write down the oboe part of "Fallen Angel" by KC? that's the only time oboe really appears in a prog song and i'd like to play it, lol. It shouldn't be too difficult for you, since you only need to include the notes and not the rythm.... and its not too long and repetitive, isnt it?        

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease

maani wrote: Having musical training is a double-edged sword vis-a-vis enjoying music.  On the one hand, it can clearly enhance what one hears when one understands how a piece was composed, executed, etc.  However, it can also "interfere" because a musician can never not be a musician, so it is impossible to "turn it off" if one wants to listen to something in a "pure" way. Peace.

Unlucky you!

I find I can "turn everything off" - except for perfect pitch

So if I want to simply chill without analysing - that's exactly what I do. Just enjoy the music for the simple pleasure it gives - undertake a different form of analysis; How does the music make you feel?

That's something you can't rationalise or equate to areas of musical theory - and it's blissful therapy to any trained musician; kind of going out the other side, as it were.

It's a great way to write music too - forget all the training, and write music that just transports you to wherever you want to be. You then have the added advantage that you can analyse it later, pull it to pieces and carefully re-assemble the bits that glaringly upset the rules by re-applying the rules in a "creative" way.

Learning theory does not train the art of making music out of you, or destroy innocent enjoyment!

What you are doing, and what most teachers neglect to inform, is that you are merely learning theory. Theory is best learnt by memorising sets of rules and regulations - but best applied by continuing with practical study and playing with those rules and learning how to break them!

Music is very fluid stuff and hates being bottled. Anyone can learn to write in the style of J. S. Bach, which is where most instruction tends to concentrate - and it's very useful indeed, as Bach's theories are still more than relevant in Western music. But the idea is not simply to learn how to write cycles of fifths or mulitple sustained 4ths, but to understand how to apply the techniques.

Likewise, if you learn to compose in the style of, e.g. Messiaen, you don't meticulously apply a Sanskrit rhythm painstakingly to a pre-ordained note-row, or even adhere to the numerical rules you worked out - you establish the rules early on, then, like Beethoven, break them gently or smash them up - in order to create the music that you hear in your head : YOUR MUSIC.

If you enjoy the instruction and have a good teacher, you should find that your listening is only enhanced.

I have often heard the story you mention, maani, but usually from non-musical folk insisting that training does that to you - can I politely ask if you've ever tried the simple technique I mentioned in my first paragraph?

Certif1ed wrote: Unlucky in that I love choral singing, but if one person in a choir sings out of tune consistently, it really upsets me in a way I cannot rationalise, and I have to leave the choir. I've been in a LOT of choirs

That evidently is not just a problem for people with perfect pitch.. because I have that problem in choir to... so much so that I have to ask to be moved quite often... and there's this one girl who sings well enough solo but for some reason can't seem to hold her pitch with a group... and she always wants to be near me to help her out.... but I can't stand it !!!