Not a prog question, but anyway:

 Give me a Tolkien LOTR reference from Led Zeppelin 2. No Net research or looking at lyrics allowed, but you can play the album.

Who'll be first this time

You're sure there is one?  I love Led Zep 2 and I like Lord Of The Rings, but I never heard a reference...

Or does the drum solo of Bonzo remind you of Orcs?

Ramble on : 'Mordor' and 'Gollum'[aka Smeagol].

On Led Zep IV there is also a reference to Tolkien's TLOR. Which one and on which song ?

 Huzzah! Lucas wins! Well done!

On "Ramble On," Plant sings: "It was in the darkest depths of Mordor, I met a girl so fair. But Gollum, the evil one, crept up and slipped away with her."

lucas wrote: On Led Zep IV there is also a reference to Tolkien's TLOR. Which one and on which song ?

On "The Battle of Evermore" there's a reference to the "Ring Wraiths."

Was that the one you had in mind?

Now, give me another Zeppelin LOTR reference, this time from "Houses of the Holy."

Joren wrote: Gee, I didn't know they were such Tolkien-fanatics!

Well, (lyricist) Plant apparently was, anyway. Page (supposedly) was into "black" magic. He used to live in self-proclaimed antichrist Aleister Crowley's former castle, and was supposedly a devotee of Crowley's books. (I've thumbed through some Crowley. Magic "how-to" books: delusional, rambling; absolute crap -- don't bother! Crowley was a nutbar!  (Or at least a charlatan! The rich and gullible supported him, for a while, but he died in ignominious obscurity.)

Prog also abounds with JRRT references. Very influential books!

dude wrote: GEE PETER you really area fan of THE RING!! ....UH OH Im IN FOR IT NOW!!!

Yeah Dude, you sicko, I'm into "the Ring," but I don't get to go there (to "Middle Earth"),  at least, not in this lifetime.... I can only watch such things on video!

Peter Rideout wrote: Joren wrote: Gee, I didn't know they were such Tolkien-fanatics! Well, (lyricist) Plant apparently was, anyway. Page (supposedly) was into "black" magic. He used to live in self-proclaimed antichrist Aleistar Crowley's former castle. Crowley was a nutbar!  (Or at least a charlatan!) Prog also abounds with JRRT references. Very influential books!

Page and black magic?? I didn't know that. One learns something new every day here!

 Dude: My my, how the rumours do fly! I hadn't heard Fox or Kensit mentioned before. I had heard that the pictures are multiple "exposures" (no joke intended) of Plant's son and daughter. His son later died at a young age, and rumour further has it that Plant at least partly blamed this tragedy on Page's dabbling in the occult.

Anyway, that's the disc -- spot the LOTR reference, music fans! 

 Well Dude and Zep-heads, I FINALLY found an album cover site where the Hipgnosis (the company behind the HOTH cover art) photographer described the making of the cover. It was shot on the famous "Giant's Causeway" in Northern Ireland (in the rain), but the photog makes no mention of the identities of the (only two) children. If the kids had been either Plant's, or future celebs like Fox or Kensit, I'm sure he would have commented on that. Thus, the children on the cover appear to have been "nobodies" (no offense meant to them).

 Sadly, Plant's son Karac did die of a stomach infection in '77, at the age of five....

Rest In Peace, little Karac.

 You're welcome, Dood!

PS: Samantha Fox had "number one" ---s! (rhymes with a word for "very popular songs") That goes a long way toward explaining her former star status. She even admitted such: "I owe it all to my ----s" (rhymes with a word for "the forerunners of transistors" in radios and amps)

Ha!

Found it. "Over the Hills and Far Away"

I stole this off a website: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2406/othafa.html - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2406/othafa.html

This comes from the Houses of the Holy lyric booklet, so the lyrics are accurate. The first obvious connection is the title, "Over the Hills and Far Away", which refers to The Hobbit. Bilbo, Gandalf, and the band of dwarves go over the hills (the Misty Mountains) and far away. The last part may have a loose connection to the works, but I doubt it. However, the first four lines need a closer look. I believe that this describes when Bilbo finds the Ring of Power. The "Lady" is actually the Ring. It "has the love" Bilbo needs, as in it has the power to make him disappear and escape from the caves. It has more than enough love, however, since Bilbo obviously doesn't need all that power, and it ends up getting him and Frodo into a mess. But Bilbo likes the Ring, and wants it to "walk a while" with him. And it has so much power, too. Hairfoot, an esteemed Tolkien/Zeppelin lover sees a connection with the last part as well. He suggests the last stanza "could reference a large number of things in Hob and LOTR. The two most prominent are At the Gate of Moria--Gandalf trying to puzzle out the entrance phrase "Speak friend...." The other is the guessing game, or more properly known as the Riddle Game." I don't have any quotes for the interpretations on this song, since it's fairly obvious, and the quotes would have to be long passages for anyone to get anything out of them. I hope this is easy to understand and that the reader makes the connection. As with all, I welcome comments and corrections.

 Hoo-rah for Danbo! Though you have technically cheated by finding the answer via the Web, that's the song I had in mind. (In your defence, I didn't say not to do so, on this one.)

I think that only the title really works. That guy's analysis of the lyrics seems to me to be really stretching the Zep/Tolkien link beyond all credibility! I think that the "lady" in the lyrics is simply a human female; thus we have a love song. (Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.) The line "I live for my dreams, and a pocket full of gold," however could  be another "nod" to Bilbo & The Hobbit.

The Lady, Yes........

However, didn't you learn yer leason about cigars on a previous thread, Peter?

terrible...

Peace.

oehgabugabuga... how about some camel +lotr

mirage = ..

Peter:

You may have missed one!

In No Quarter: "They choose the path where no-one goes."  An oblique reference to the Mines of Moria?

Peace.

maani wrote: Peter: You may have missed one! In No Quarter: "They choose the path where no-one goes."  An oblique reference to the Mines of Moria? Peace.

 Perhaps just that line, but not the song, as "they give no quarter" (no mercy) would not be a good description of the Fellowship, who, being good, certainly do give quarter. (They spare Wormtongue, etc.)

I think that "No Quarter" is simply swords and sorcery-themed, but not specific to Tolkien.

The problem here is that almost any lyric can be "made to fit" a Tolkien analysis (show me a lyric & I'll link it to LOTR!), much like people can impose many different interpretations upon the Bible, to suit their particular agendas. We often see what we want or expect to see, which is not necessarily what's really there!

Okay Peter,

What band wrote this bit of Tolkien?

Hint; 90's prog.

If you find yourself aching
For a cold cup of Entwash
A walk in the moonlight or some Longbottom Leaf
May the leeward side find you
The sun never blind you
The good book remind you
Of the love that we share

Uh oh! You've got me there, Danbo! My knowledge of 90s prog is very limited. Until I found this site a few months back, I didn't even know that true prog was being written anymore! (I am trying to listen to -- and review -- more current stuff now, though.)

I won't cheat via Google, but I'll take a wild guess: Pendragon?

Who?

I've never heard Pendragon, Fantasy Prog?

Jim Garten wrote: Peter Rideout wrote: almost any lyric can be "made to fit" a Tolkien analysis (show me a lyric & I'll link it to LOTR!) OK, Peter - try this on for size...... "my pink half of the drainpipe, seperates me from you....." Bonzo Dog Band 1968

 Jim, the answer is laughably obvious: The lyrics you quote are an oblique reference to the dwarves being put into barrels ("drainpipes") to escape the wood elves in The Hobbit. (The barrels separate the dwarves from the elves.) There is also a parallel -- but less obvious -- reference to Pippin pouring pints down his throat ("pink drainpipe") at the Prancing Pony, until his subsequent tipsy indisgressions threaten to separate him from the fuming Frodo.

To fully comprehend the import of these arcane but beautiful words, however, you must first ingest the same perilously near-lethal cocktail of consciousness-expanding hallucinogens that the lyricist  did before he penned such an immortal line.

(I suggest that you have "911" ready on the auto-dial before embarking upon your inner quest for enlightenment, Grasshopper....)

Good luck!

What else you got?

danbo wrote: Who? I've never heard Pendragon, Fantasy Prog?

Whoops! I meant to say Nimrodel, whose excellent Gandalf-themed song, "The White Rider" appears in MP3 format on the archives. Could it be them?

PS: My review of Pendragon's "Not of this World" is in the works. Stay tuned!

Danbo:

An easy one: that's Echolyn.  Now try these two, from different bands (note that they are not necessarily prog bands):

1.  "On his white horse Shadowfax, Ol' Gandalf gallops into town, I bet that old Istari Chief, wants some Longbottom Leaf.  "

2.  "Now all you Boffins and Bolgers, Bracegirdles and Proudfeet, I'm the skinny hobbit with all the fat beats. My name is Merry and I'm five feet tall, I used to mess stuff up at Brandybuck Hall. My man Bilbo's older than Gerontius Took, Yeah you can read all about it in the big Red Book."

Good luck!

Peace.

Danbo:

Since you cheated by using the Internet, you only get half-credit.

Still, good job!

Peace.

Half is better then none.

An investigator uses the tools at hand, right?

So, How did you find these sites/bands/artists?

[/QUOTE]

RIGHT!!

Try this on for size.......PAL!

"that was the sound of Roger's wah-wah rabbits eating endives - very reasonable at this time of year...."

The Bonzo's again - 1968 "shirts"[/QUOTE]

 Goodness gracious me, James, I really don't see why you need my help with this one. As anyone possessed of a modicum of grey matter (and the right drugs) who has given TLOTR even a cursory read should be able to tell, this cleverly-penned excerpt contains some non-linear references to Gollum.

 It's a well known fact (at least among mental patients, and guitarists named Dale) that before Tolkien settled upon the names Smeagol/Gollum for his  minor villain, he toyed with the notion of naming his skulking, slimey character Roger, after a former publisher that he had had a less-than-lucrative professional relationship with. Furthermore, the name Smeagol, when rendered in Old Entish, is spoken as "Raa-jerr."

There is also a more obvious reference to the way that Gollum is moved to tears of frustration ("Wah-wah") when he sees the stolid Samwise cooking the "coneys," or rabbits, that Smeagol has procured for his peckish "Master" on the way to Mordor.

Next, there is a clever reference both to the way that Gollum dives into pools to catch fish ("endives"), and to the way that he does a header, or dives into Mount Doom at the end of the book -- he "end dives," as it were.

The final part is simply the Bonzos communicating to me through space and time that my explanation is very reasonable.

I hope that you will get more out of the song now. Remember, all rock lyrics are derived from Tolkien!

It's about time we stumped mr. Peter Rideout. Here's a lyric that obviously has no relation whatsoever to LOTR

"He took a dog-doo snow cone and stuffed it in my right eye
He took a dog-doo snow cone and stuffed it in my other eye
And the husky wee-wee
I mean the doggie wee-wee
Has blinded me
And I can't see
Temporarily"

Try this too, Peter;

"I poked and stroked 'til my wrist got numb.

But I never did hear no Dinah Moe Humm."

LOL ROFLMFAO

Excellent choice, danbo

I don't think peter can find an explanation for these lyrics in LOTR. Last time I checked, there was no dynah mo humming over the husky wee wee

(It's not as sick as it sounds)

Glass-Prison wrote: I don't think peter can find an explanation for these lyrics in LOTR. Last time I checked, there was no dynah mo humming over the husky wee wee (It's not as sick as it sounds)

Don't be so sure , oh "Crystal Dungeon." My research (cough cough) continues....

Let me give Peter an assist here, at least with one of them:

"I poked and stroked til my wrist got numb, but I never did hear no Dinah Moe Humm"

This one is so obvious that I'm shocked - shocked! - that neither danbo nor Peter got it.

This refers to Frodo and Sam crossing the river after Frodo puts on the ring to get away from Boromir.  Sam "poked and stroked" the oars in the water.  As is obvious, "Dinah Moe Humm" is a wordplay on "dynamo hum."  We all know that a dynamo is a motor most often associated with hydroelectric (i.e., water) power.  The LOTR reference would be that Sam and Frodo were too far from the waterfall at the end of the river to hear the "dynamo hum."

Geez, guys.  Give us a hard one... 

Move the topic!

This sounds like...

HUMOUR!

Here's another one, what's the LOTR reference here?:

I don't wanna kill my china pig
No I don't
Uh man's gotta live
Uh man's gotta eat
Uh man's gotta have shoes t' walk out on the street
I don't wanna kill my china pig
Ell he was uh baby I want yuh t' see
I don't wanna kill my china pig
Well I used t' go t' school
With uh' little red box
'n I used to have m' pig go with me
We walked for blocks
I don't wanna kill my china pig

GOOD LUCK!

maani wrote: Let me give Peter an assist here, at least with one of them: "I poked and stroked til my wrist got numb, but I never did hear no Dinah Moe Humm" This one is so obvious that I'm shocked - shocked! - that neither danbo nor Peter got it. This refers to Frodo and Sam crossing the river after Frodo puts on the ring to get away from Boromir.  Sam "poked and stroked" the oars in the water.  As is obvious, "Dinah Moe Humm" is a wordplay on "dynamo hum."  We all know that a dynamo is a motor most often associated with hydroelectric (i.e., water) power.  The LOTR reference would be that Sam and Frodo were too far from the waterfall at the end of the river to hear the "dynamo hum." Geez, guys.  Give us a hard one...

I don't think there was hydroelectricity in the lord of the rings (or electricity for that matter)

Glass-Prison:

True, but there was hydroelectric power when Tolkien wrote the books.  However, there is an alternative explanation for the line.  A dynamo is, ultimately, an engine.  And we know that Saruman had developed a "dynamo" system at Isengard to create the Uruk-Hai and their weapons.  Thus, the line refers to the fact that Frodo and Sam were too far from Isengard to hear the "dynamo" hum.

Peace.

 My (upcoming) analysis of that section (from the unexpurgated edition of LOTR) is MUCH, MUCH naughtier than that!

Still, good one Maani! 

(Got to suck up to "the boss," guys....)

^now I would love to hear that version

if it's too risque for the boards, then msg it to me.

Glass-Prison wrote: I don't think peter can find an explanation for these lyrics in LOTR. Last time I checked, there was no dynah mo humming over the husky wee wee (It's not as sick as it sounds)

 I have actually managed, at long last, to track down Tolkien references for many of the Zappa lyrics cited, but as the material in question is of a decidedly ribald nature, my proposed analysis  would have been even more salacious (love that word!), and perhaps unsuited to a public forum ostensibly dedicated to the dissemination of (drumroll please) "capital P capital R" Progressive Rock.

So:

Give me something less overtly sexual to work with, would you guys? This thread was fun -- at least for me!  Waah!

(There's just not enough silliness here lately, you know. Maybe I need to return to my shining empire on the Island of Abandoned Progholes!)

OK then, don't play! Labour on in ignorance of the Tolkien-inspired foundation of all rock lyrics!

All righty then: Without cheating via the web, where do the Genesis song titles "Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers..." & "In That Quiet Earth" come from

(I mean the original source, of course, not the album!)

 A movie question: Where did the title of the Robin Williams film "What Dreams May Come" originate?

No web-cheating, SVP!

 Gee, my own private web page....

C'mon, you intellectual lightweights!

Cheat if you must, but have the decency to admit it....

  Someone PLEASE take a guess about either one of the above, before I have a rejection-induced apoplexy! Waaaaah!

I won' t bite if you're wrong! (Danbo and Jim excepted, natch)

  Well, I won't draw blood, anyway....

"Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers" and "In That Quiet Earth" are both from Wuthering Heights

Although I did cheat a bit, as my S/O has a degree in English from Oxford, and I have a copy of "The Peguin Book of Quotations"...

Certif1ed wrote: "Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers" and "In That Quiet Earth" are both from Wuthering Heights Although I did cheat a bit, as my S/O has a degree in English from Oxford, and I have a copy of "The Peguin Book of Quotations"...

 Right you are, Cert! No web use = full marks, and a gold star on your paper! 

Jim Garten wrote:

Righty-o, Jam-a-lam-a-ding-dong, you clever lad! Here's your gold star to show yer mum:

"To sleep -- perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub! / For in that sleep of death what dreams may come / when we have shuffled off this mortal coil, / must give us pause."

In that section alone of the Dane's famous soliloquy  we find a movie title, a Wishbone Ash album title, and a band name!

And there are those who wonder why we should still read the old Bard of Avon!