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Statistics on Prog genres currently on the website

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Topic: Statistics on Prog genres currently on the website

Posted By: Trickster F.
Subject: Statistics on Prog genres currently on the website
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 10:33

Due to some free time and a restless, seeking mind, I had to take my time and find out how many bands are listed on the website from each genre, not only for statistical purposes, but also as a reference to further arguments, discussions, decisions and agreements... (hope that doesn't sound like a line from 'Discipline'

)

Here is the list:

416 Symphonic Prog

377 Art-Rock

259 Neo Prog

255 Prog-Metal

229 Jazz-Fusion

176 Prog-Folk

156 Psychedelic/Space Rock

145 Italian Symphonic Prog

87 Prog-Related

79 RIO/Avant-Prog

60 Krautrock

32 Progressive Electronic

31 Canterbury

26 Post-Rock

25 Zeuhl

21 Indo/Raga-Prog

20 Proto-Prog

6 Various Genres

Some of my observations and conclusions, as well as notes during the process:

1. If we put RIO, Avant-Prog, Krautrock and Zeuhl into the same box titled Experimental/Avant-Garde for example, we will get

164 bands under the same roof, which will not be as extensive as other genres. I am saying this because it has been the primary reason to deny further Prog-Metal band "branching" - because we already have too much genres. If so, why not put the least popular, prevailing ones in one box? There's more similarity between bands in these genres than between many Prog-Metal bands, for example.

2. Indo/Raga-Prog is, as a common belief, an unnecessary addition to the site, for there are only 21 bands in the genre, and, most importantly, because it is an ethnic movement, which should have a better place in Prog Folk with other so-called Ethnic Prog bands.

However, this also rises an important question, as there has been a trend lately to separate, fuse and "branch" different genres:

How should we decide the way the genres are separated? By the number of the bands already present in a genre or by the differences between the genres?

If former, then what I posted in #1 and #2 applies here.

The ideas expressed here have already been expressed by others many times throughout time, myself included, however, the main point of this thread was to have a deeper look on the things and also find some logical conclusion, a compromise, if I may, and actually make the decision come true.

Replies:

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 10:37

we need more post-rock... Disapprove

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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 10:42

Wow.

Very interesting.

However, i feel its a little flawed with a few bands being in art rock that don't belong there.

All I know is, I wish I had that kind of time.

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.

Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 10:43

Trickster F. wrote:

Due to some free time and a restless, seeking mind, I had to take my time and find out how many bands are listed on the website from each genre, not only for statistical purposes, but also as a reference to further arguments, discussions, decisions and agreements... (hope that doesn't sound like a line from 'Discipline'

)

Here is the list:

416 Symphonic Prog
The awesome, celebrated SP team has not yet finished its cleanup of the section (we're just about halfway through, and should start again this week, with Ivan being back and all) - which means this number is likely to further decrease.

377 Art-Rock

259 Neo Prog

255 Prog-Metal

229 Jazz-Fusion

176 Prog-Folk

156 Psychedelic/Space Rock

145 Italian Symphonic Prog

87 Prog-Related

79 RIO/Avant-Prog

60 Krautrock

31 Canterbury

26 Post-Rock

25 Zeuhl

21 Indo/Raga-Prog

20 Proto-Prog

6 Various Genres

Some of my observations and conclusions, as well as notes during the process:

1. If we put RIO, Avant-Prog, Krautrock and Zeuhl into the same box titled Experimental/Avant-Garde for example, we will get

However, this also rises an important question, as there has been a trend lately to separate, fuse and "branch" different genres:

How should we decide the way the genres are separated? By the number of the bands already present in a genre or by the differences between the genres?

If former, then what I posted in #1 and #2 applies here.

If the latter, then the difference between Italian Symphonic Prog and "other" Symphonic Prog is so miserable compared to Prog-Metal(I am sorry, but this is the best example where bands inside one single genre sound so different from each other)that it can be easily neglected. You know I quite agree with you in this respect, although at the same time I am in favour of a dedicated subsection in the Symphonic subgenre for Italy and other influential national schools.

Another idea I've got is to fuse Proto-Prog with Prog-Related, as you can pretty much say that Proto-Prog, much like Prog-Related, is merely a reference in the archives - bands which are not Prog themselves but are related or important to the genre itself. I don't agree on this one, as the bands in Proto-Prog and Prog-Related are quite different from each other, and the purpose of having a Proto-Prog section was to highlight the forerunners of the genre - something that I find quite important to do for a website like ours.

Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 10:57

Some interesting stuff there Ivan, I mean Trckster, and food for thought. Thumbs Up

Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:01

416 Symphonic Prog..

..!!!

Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:03

416 Symphonic Prog

377 Art-Rock

259 Neo Prog

255 Prog-Metal

229 Jazz-Fusion

176 Prog-Folk

156 Psychedelic/Space Rock

145 Italian Symphonic Prog

87 Prog-Related

79 RIO/Avant-Prog >> there are quite afewstill missing and not the least

60 Krautrock >>

31 Canterbury >> I think this small category could go into JR/F if Caravan goes to art rock and Kevin Ayers to prog-related

26 Post-Rock >> there are a few more not in

25 Zeuhl >> Some of those RIO bands are also Zeuhl

21 Indo/Raga-Prog >> an offshoot from prog folk

20 Proto-Prog >>> We got to get some more in this category

6 Various Genres>>> Osibisa into prog folk

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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:03

WAIT A MINUTE!! WHERE'S PROGRESSIVE ELECTRONIC?!

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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:05

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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!

Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:11

Gosh almighty, it looks like a football competition, everybody rooting for their favourite team... LOL

Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:17

I bet it feels really good being baten by the Neo Prog by 4 bands eh, Prog Metal?

Though you'll probably just add Slayer, Black Sabbath, and a few more to even it out.

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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:20

I am finally World Champion!!!!!

Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:23

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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:23

stonebeard wrote:

I bet it feels really good being baten by the Neo Prog by 4 bands eh, Prog Metal?

Though you'll probably just add Slayer, Black Sabbath, and a few more to even it out.

No, not these two ... but the 50+ other bands that have been cleared for addition. Big smile

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Listened to:

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:28

50 more prog metal bands... Heaven help us all!!!

Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:36

Nice emoticon, where dit you get it from, Stonebeard

? We both suffered from a disastrous World Championship, I can have some distraction so I enjoy

416 Symphonic Prog!!!

Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:38

Not sure if it came from here, but this pace has a lot (which I'll try to use explicitly in this thread

): http://www.freesmileys.org/free-animated-smileys.php - http://www.freesmileys.org/free-animated-smileys.php

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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!

Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:49

Thanks Stonebeard, I have added it to my Favorites!

Tons of hotlinkable free smileys available here at www.freesmileys.org

Posted By: Lyzarrd
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:55

Ricochet wrote:

we need more post-rock...

We need more Zeuhl. Wink

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Can you tell me where my country lies...

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 12:20

We need less... something

Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 12:33

composer wrote:

50 more prog metal bands... Heaven help us all!!!

Heaven has helped and provided us with 50 more! Prog Metal is my personal savior in the world of listening joy.

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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 13:02

Added Progressive Electronic due to the hard-working men's wish(po zayavkam trudyashihsya

Posted By: Progressive??
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 13:07

composer wrote:

We need less... something

of course we do, we need less Progressive Metal!

Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 13:32

1. If we put RIO, Avant-Prog, Krautrock and Zeuhl into the same box titled Experimental/Avant-Garde for example, we will get

164 bands under the same roof, which will not be as extensive as other genres. I am saying this because it has been the primary reason to deny further Prog-Metal band "branching" - because we already have too much genres. If so, why not put the least popular, prevailing ones in one box? There's more similarity between bands in these genres than between many Prog-Metal bands, for example.

While I agree that there is a certain blurring of the boundaries between those genres - Univers Zero and Art Zoyd could both be considered Zeuhl, for instance - there are major differences between bands even within those genres to a far greater extent than in prog metal.

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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom

Posted By: RaúlGuate
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 14:32

A warning:
Number of bands, doesn't necesarily mean popularity. The number of reviews could be a better indicator.

Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 14:37

RaúlGuate wrote:

A warning:
Number of bands, doesn't necesarily mean popularity. The number of reviews could be a better indicator.

In the case of Symphonic prog, the explanation is quite easy. The subgenre was originally seen as a sort of dumping ground for any band that did not evidently belong to any of the other more clear-cut subgenres. Therefore, when the major overhaul undertaken by the specialist team began, there were bands of any kind under the sun to be found in the section - even a couple of New Age bands that should've taken out of PA without hesitation. The number of bands in the subgenre should drop below 400 at the end of this operation, though it is likely that this number will remain quite high.

Posted By: omri
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 14:44

Basically I agree to any suggestion of decreasing the amount of sub-genres.

I will be even more radical and suggest the folowing :

1. Symphonic will include Itallian and complex art roc (KC, VDGG)

2. Most of art rock and some proto-prog (procol harum) will be with prog related in one sub-genre called soft prog / prog related (Moody blues goes to Symphonic).

3. I agree with experimntal / avant prog and also include most of canterbury in (and the rest of it goes to Fusion / Jazz rock).

4. From the little I know I suspect Indo should also move to fusion.

Let's count now :

1. symphonic

2. Folk

3. Metal

4. fusion

5. experimental

6. soft

7. neo

8. electronic (could'nt find somrthing to combine with)

9. post rock (what is that anyway ?)

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omri

Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 14:48

Trickster F., now it seems that we have two threads with the same subject, it would have been better if the starting statistic in this thread was posted in my thread, not for me but looking at the reactions by Syzygy and Omri, these could have been better posted in my thread because of the discussion there ...

Posted By: omri
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 14:54

Erik,

Your thread is allready 9 pages and I hesitate to get in and read so many posts. However, looking at the title it does deal with the same subject and my post fits there.

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omri

Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 14:56

You are right, it's your choice Omri and OK but it's also confusing for those who are following first my thread and now this interesting thread, that is what I mean.

Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 14:56

Trickster F. wrote:

Added Progressive Electronic due to the hard-working men's wish(po zayavkam trudyashihsya

Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 15:18

erik neuteboom wrote:

Trickster F., now it seems that we have two threads with the same subject, it would have been better if the starting statistic in this thread was posted in my thread, not for me but looking at the reactions by Syzygy and Omri, these could have been better posted in my thread because of the discussion there ...

I understand what you mean, I initially intended to just post the statistics, but ended up continuing to express my thoughts afterwards, sorry.

Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 15:22

Seems like if the SP team send abnds to Art Rock, Art Rock will be the genre with the majority of bands...

Also seems like if the PM team add lots of bands, in a year Porg Metal will be the first place in owning bands

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Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 15:35

Progressive?? wrote:

composer wrote:

We need less... something

of course we do, we need less Progressive Metal!

Thems fightin' words.

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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 16:32

Don't blame me for that one Sty, I'm just a hippy trippy symphonic old fart. I'm afraid of you angry prog metalers.

Posted By: R_DeNIRO
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 17:11

I'm agree in decreasing the number of genres, but I think it's neccesary to create more subgenres. 400 bands or 200 can't be so similar between them. It's useless to have genres if the bands are so different. It will not guide anyone.

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We were always be much human than we whish to be.

Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 17:34

R_DeNIRO wrote:

I'm agree in decreasing the number of genres, but I think it's neccesary to create more subgenres. 400 bands or 200 can't be so similar between them. It's useless to have genres if the bands are so different. It will not guide anyone.

I think we have two options:

1) to bear with genre distribution (maybe slightly reclassified one);

2) to decrease extremely the number of genres but increase (also extremely) the number of sub...subgenres (sub=n). In this case we'll have enormously big branching graph, where some branches will consist of a single member (with sufficiently big "n"), like King Crimson, Jethro Tull or Van der Graaf Generator.

Posted By: RaphaelT
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 18:05

In fact, Professor Darwin is what we need or some other great taxognome like Linneus - We are in need of Doctor Tarr And Professor Feather

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yet you still have time!

Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 18:07

Trickster F. wrote:

1. If we put RIO, Avant-Prog, Krautrock and Zeuhl into the same box titled Experimental/Avant-Garde for example, we will get

Believe me that the Krautrock genre alone has alot of difference between bands (try comparing Neu! with Can with Amon Duul II with Ash Ra temple and others) Let alone combining them with RIO/Avant-garde and Zeuhl. I find it better to combine RIO/Avant-garde with Zeuhl.

I also agree on combining Raga with Folk prog and Prog related with Proto-prog since the only difference is the timeline (bands that are from 1969 and under are proto and bands from 1970 and over are prog related.

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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 18:16

Trickster F. wrote:

Due to some free time and a restless, seeking mind...

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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)

Posted By: rushfan6588
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 18:25

i definately think there needs to be more focused sub-genres. The is alot of ambiguity in alot of the genres. A perfect example is Rush and Gentle Giant sharing the same genre.

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If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.

Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: August 21 2006 at 11:47

chamberry wrote:

Trickster F. wrote:

1. If we put RIO, Avant-Prog, Krautrock and Zeuhl into the same box titled Experimental/Avant-Garde for example, we will get

Raga Prog with Folk, sounds nice.. Raga Prog is the less genre that i know, despite i love Shakti, and like Quintessence, i have never liked Raga prog Indo prog as a genre...

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