Carrying contraceptives
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Topic: Carrying contraceptives
Posted By: JayDee
Subject: Carrying contraceptives
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 07:06
A friend and I was talking about this earlier. I would like to hear from the fathers here in the forum.
I am not for carrying or using contrceptives outside marriage. To be honest, I havent bought or used a condom in my entire 23 years... and yes, I'm still a virgin.. Conservative?? I think I am.
I believe that sex, is only for married couples (of the oppossite sex)
Now, please, dont get me wrong. I'm not in favor of having premarital sex. And I wouldnt let my son or my daughter carry and/or use contraceptives out of marriage.
Please keep this clean. No personnal or religious attacks. I just want to know your views.
Thanks!
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Replies:
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 07:34
I would actually pay the condom just to make sure.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 08:37
I am not a father, i've always been too careful for that - don't get me wrong i was a bit of a lad but when i was young it was an absolute disgrace for a woman to become pregnant out of wedlock, but unfortunately these days in my country Christian values don't count for anything. There are many "good" girls i'm sure but many of them seem to behave like alley cats - flying off to Ibiza for 2 weeks of drunken sex. I have heard from many sources that English girls at home and abroad are promiscuous and don't care what they do or who they do it with, some of the stories i hear make me ashamed. If i was a father i'd be worried to let my daughter out the house. Many parents encourage their children to use condoms but many of them see that as a license for promiscuity. Call me old fashioned but Christian values could save a lot of misery and heartache, just watch Jeremy Kyle any day, drink, drugs and promiscuity. Well there ends the sermon fom MF!
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 08:48
mystic fred wrote:
I am not a father, i've always been too careful for that - don't get me wrong i was a bit of a lad but when i was young it was an absolute disgrace for a woman to become pregnant out of wedlock, but unfortunately these days in my country Christian values don't count for anything. There are many "good" girls i'm sure but many of them seem to behave like alley cats - flying off to Ibiza for 2 weeks of drunken sex. I have heard from many sources that English girls at home and abroad are promiscuous and don't care what they do or who they do it with, some of the stories i hear make me ashamed. If i was a father i'd be worried to let my daughter out the house. Many parents encourage their children to use condoms but many of them see that as a license for promiscuity. Call me old fashioned but Christian values could save a lot of misery and heartache, just watch Jeremy Kyle any day, drink, drugs and promiscuity. Well there ends the sermon fom MF! |
Not limited to english girls, there are tons of English boys looking to get laid also in Ibiza
Plenty of youth doing that from every country
This is rather an interesting concept, these young girls acting completely depraved on holidays. They are ready to engage in sex (and not just conventional) with almost complete strangers who do not care one bit for them (with the assurance of never seeing them again), but in their hometown, they behave like a saint, and never engage this behaviour with males that could care for them.
then they complain about the way males are and not finding nice ones ???
But at least the vast majority use condoms and pills
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 08:51
OK, I'm not a father (or even a mother...), but I'd like to have my say all the same. You know, the thing is, you can buy your son condoms, but you're never going to be sure that he uses them.... As far as I know, there are many men who don't like using them, although they have an even more important function nowadays (as well as in the past) than preventing pregnancy. It's not a question of buying them, but rather one related to upbringing and values.
Now, I don't consider myself a Christian anymore, but I have a deep respect for my fellow people. Therefore, I think that using people as mere sex objects is not a positive thing by any means. I'm not the kind of person who says there has always to be love - but even so-called 'recreational' sex need not be done in a way that demeans either yourself or the other person. I'd hate to wake up in the morning beside a man whose name I didn't even know because I was too drunk the night before.
That said, I don't think that marriage is that relevant. If two people marry for the wrong reasons (and there are quite a few that still do that), the fact that they are married doesn't make their having sex together righter than two unmarried people who love, respect and care for each other. But then, not being religious, I think marriage is only a social contract, which should have no bearing on private matters such as sex.
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Posted By: NutterAlert
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 08:57
------------- Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005
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Posted By: NutterAlert
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 09:01
To be serious...when I was young and had unprotected sex the worst that happened was a rash, some itching and embarrasing trips to the doctors. The worst that can happen now is you can die (of AIDS).
I have a 16 year old daughter and she is aware of all safe sex messages.
You said no religion MM, but I have grave concerns about views of catholic church/condoms & spead of AIDS.
------------- Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 09:37
I would advise my son to always carry one in his pocket... or maybe two
kids should be aware of these things, I am still 25 and I am very careful... at least I try to be
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Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 09:55
I don't want children of anykind. But if I had one, I would buy the contraceptives myself and give them to her - him. Too much people in the world. Everyone thinks about their uwn genetic material as a Jewel of evilution; meanwhile, we are running out of rice...
------------- ¡Beware of the Bee!
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Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:00
mystic fred wrote:
I am not a father, i've always been too careful for that - don't get me wrong i was a bit of a lad but when i was young it was an absolute disgrace for a woman to become pregnant out of wedlock, but unfortunately these days in my country Christian values don't count for anything. There are many "good" girls i'm sure but many of them seem to behave like alley cats - flying off to Ibiza for 2 weeks of drunken sex. I have heard from many sources that English girls at home and abroad are promiscuous and don't care what they do or who they do it with, some of the stories i hear make me ashamed. If i was a father i'd be worried to let my daughter out the house. Many parents encourage their children to use condoms but many of them see that as a license for promiscuity. Call me old fashioned but Christian values could save a lot of misery and heartache, just watch Jeremy Kyle any day, drink, drugs and promiscuity. Well there ends the sermon fom MF! |
If I had the money, I would went to Ibiza myself. If someone wants to explore sexuality, ¿what's the problem?... as long as you care and respect for you and your ocasional "partner". There is people that fly to everywhere to drop bombs or instigate changes of power. Now, I know one thing: I wouldn't fly anywhere just for sex, I would fly for love and sex. In fact, my actual Girlfriend studies a bit far; so I think I do.
------------- ¡Beware of the Bee!
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:12
Thanks... keep em coming.The views of Ghost Rider and Mystic Fred stands out for me, at this point.
why is the NO vote not moving????
and to Nutter, I understand!
I guess its a bit difficult not to mention religion... Just dont hit bellow the belt.
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:22
and oh, BTW, non parents are also welcome to post.
specially the teens of PA
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Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:28
I don't have a child, but when I do I will take him to the store, buy him condoms, and make sure he can have safe sex. Sex is a completly natural thing, and the human body has urges and such. I wouldn't encourage it, but if it happens I would rather have him not getting a girl pregnant. Simple as that.
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Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:38
The Wizard wrote:
Sex is a completly natural thing, and the human body has urges and such. I wouldn't encourage it, but if it happens I would rather have him not getting a girl pregnant. Simple as that. |
I was thinking what to write and then you typed it in for me.
This is an interesting discussion.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10">
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Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:43
Teens need to be educated about their options instead of being scared into not having sex. The fact is, they know about sex, they're going to do it. It's been this way since time immemorial. It even happens to kids brought up with the most Christian and conservative of values. Withholding contraceptives, birth control, and education about how to have sex safely and respectfully can only damage them. I wouldn't want my kids entering adulthood thinking sex is something dirty and evil or something to be feared. They're more likely to have dangerous unprotected sex if they are not educated and prepared, instead of doing it safely with someone they love.
also.... I won't even touch your comment on same-sex issues.... for now
------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic
ALTAIC
"Oceans Down You'll Lie"
coming soon
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:46
Hey Bob... Long time no see bro!
Would you do the same thing for your daughter?(if you had one)I mean, would you let her have pills or something ?@ Wizzie
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:51
GoldenSpiral wrote:
Teens need to be educated about their options instead of being scared into not having sex. Agreed The fact is, they know about sex, they're going to do it.The problem is, where or from whom did they learn about it. It's been this way since time immemorial. It even happens to kids brought up with the most Christian and conservative of values. Agreed Withholding contraceptives, birth control, and education about how to have sex safely and respectfully can only damage them. I wouldn't want my kids entering adulthood thinking sex is something dirty and evil or something to be feared. Hell Yeah! They're more likely to have dangerous unprotected sex if they are not educated and prepared, instead of doing it safely with someone they love. Agreed
also.... I won't even touch your comment on same-sex issues.... for now A different topic
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Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:52
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
Hey Bob... Long time no see bro!
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I've been back for a few weeks now. I guess I've just been keeping a low profile. Thanks for the nice words anyway.
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
Would you do the same thing for your daughter?(if you had one)I mean, would you let her have pills or something ?@ Wizzie |
I can answer that! You can advise the kids but in the end it's up to them if they want to have sex or not. If they are going to have sex then it's better that they take precautions. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10">
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Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:00
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
Hey Bob... Long time no see bro!
Would you do the same thing for your daughter?(if you had one)I mean, would you let her have pills or something ?@ Wizzie |
Yes, I would becuase some men hate using condoms and they don't always carry them. I don't want to force morality on my daughter either, and even If I do that's no garuntee to prevent her from having sex.
My parents never give me condoms, so if I'm ever in the situation where I would need one I would hope my female partner has the pill.
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:04
When I was young, and a bit wild, I was very sexually active. I had the talks with my parents, and while they didn't say I had to married, they did encourage me to wait until it was with someone I loved. But, I was young, and was going to do what I wanted to.
Contraception was a huge priority for many reasons. Birth control was at the top of the list, until the advent of AIDS. By practicing "safe sex" no diseases were transferred (at least not to me), and no one got pregnant.
I have a different view now. Although I still don't think marriage is neccessary, I do believe that two people should be absolutely sure that it is the right thing to do. There are many emotions involved, and it is very easy for someone to get hurt. For this reason, I have been celibate for almost four years. I do not wish to cause any harm. That includes myself. When I meet someone, and I am sure it is the right thing to do, this period will be over.
It is almost impossible to make someone adhere to your philosophy, if they really want to go the other direction. For that reason, I think it is irresponsible to deny contraception to a young person. Just because you don't want them to have sex, doesn't mean they aren't going to. It is important to encourage them to at least be safe about it.
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
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Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:05
The Wizard wrote:
Yes, I would becuase some men hate using condoms and they don't always carry them. I don't want to force morality on my daughter either, and even If I do that's no garuntee to prevent her from having sex. |
It's irresponsible to have sex without condoms. You never know what you might catch or transmit.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10">
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Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:07
Bob Greece wrote:
The Wizard wrote:
Yes, I would becuase some men hate using condoms and they don't always carry them. I don't want to force morality on my daughter either, and even If I do that's no garuntee to prevent her from having sex. |
It's irresponsible to have sex without condoms. You never know what you might catch or transmit. |
Exactly. That's why you should make your son uses one!
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:08
NutterAlert wrote:
You said no religion MM, but I have grave concerns about views of catholic church/condoms & spread of AIDS.
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Yes I would say that this is where the Vatican is really not up to their self-claimed level of decency. In order to avoid promiscuity and birth control (for their own use/purpose), they are ready to promote false information.
So if condoms do not prevent AIDS, then most people will have sex without the rubber (I mean why bother with that fun killer if it is useless) causing more unwanted pregnancies and birth and even more diseases.
This spreading of false info is criminal behaviour.
I understand their aim is to promote abstinance (which is a very valid option everyone should have the option of considering or applying) , but this is bloody stupid public relations, undermining even more their credibility. >> this is the exact result they got from all parties involved including other Christian movement.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:09
bhikkhu wrote:
I have a different view now. Although I still don't think marriage is neccessary, I do believe that two people should be absolutely sure that it is the right thing to do. There are many emotions involved, and it is very easy for someone to get hurt. For this reason, I have been celibate for almost four years. I do not wish to cause any harm. That includes myself. When I meet someone, and I am sure it is the right thing to do, this period will be over. |
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10">
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:15
Its 12 YES to 1 NO..
guess who answered NO
I wish someone would come in and answer NO and explain his/her side
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:26
Bob Greece wrote:
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
Its 12 YES to 1 NO..
guess who answered NO
I wish someone would come in and answer NO and explain his/her side |
Saying 'no' is the same view as that of the Catholic church. Sorry to bring religion up but it has been mentioned a few times already. The Catholic church thinks that if people don't carry or use condoms then they won't have sex. This is wrong. agreed, (Im a non Catholic BTW)
If you rephrase your question into "Would you encourage your children to have sex" then you'd get a lot more 'no' answers. well, quite obviously |
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:37
bhikkhu wrote:
I have a different view now. Although I still don't think marriage is neccessary, I do believe that two people should be absolutely sure that it is the right thing to do. There are many emotions involved, and it is very easy for someone to get hurt. For this reason, I have been celibate for almost four years. I do not wish to cause any harm. That includes myself. When I meet someone, and I am sure it is the right thing to do, this period will be over.
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Uuuhhh!!..........
Sex is meant to please not harm. especially when the two individual appreciate each other.
Just thought I'd remind you of this.
While I respect your celibacy, it is best to try out sex fairly soon in the relationship, because that is a factor that can intervene (inadequacies, strong distastes , simply bad physical chemistry >> which is possible even when the characterial chemistry is fine) into whether to keep going in that relation.
Generally nobody is having sex with someone the do not appreciate (outside the prostitution thing) at least quite a bit!!! or else, they are masochists (and THAT my friend is a whole other debate)
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 12:47
Thanks for reminding me.....
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 12:59
Sean Trane wrote:
bhikkhu wrote:
I have a different view now. Although I still don't think marriage is neccessary, I do believe that two people should be absolutely sure that it is the right thing to do. There are many emotions involved, and it is very easy for someone to get hurt. For this reason, I have been celibate for almost four years. I do not wish to cause any harm. That includes myself. When I meet someone, and I am sure it is the right thing to do, this period will be over.
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Uuuhhh!!..........
Sex is meant to please not harm. especially when the two individual appreciate each other.
Just thought I'd remind you of this.
While I respect your celibacy, it is best to try out sex fairly soon in the relationship, because that is a factor that can intervene (inadequacies, strong distastes , simply bad physical chemistry >> which is possible even when the characterial chemistry is fine) into whether to keep going in that relation.
Generally nobody is having sex with someone the do not appreciate (outside the prostitution thing) at least quite a bit!!! or else, they are masochists (and THAT my friend is a whole other debate) |
Hugues, yours is the point of view of a decent human being, who respects others as well as himself. You'd be surprised at the number of people who use sex to harm others - and I'm not talking about rape (which has nothing to do with sex, anyway). Having sex with somebody who is in love with you when you are not is a wonderful way of hurting them, especially when you can't be honest about that from the very beginning.
This is why I tend to endorse Bhikkhu's views, which are quite rare in men, and nowadays also in women. It's not moralism, but rather a moral issue - to me, immorality is making others suffer. I hold these views because I've suffered a lot in the past because of men's dishonest behaviour. And I could write a book about the appreciation thing... If you mean "fancy", that's one thing - pure physical chemistry. Appreciation goes deeper, and involves other aspects than the purely physical.
That said, I agree with you that it's best to try sex soon in a relationship, unless one is only interested in only having a spiritual bond with their partner.
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 13:22
Ghost Rider wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
bhikkhu wrote:
I have a different view now. Although I still don't think marriage is neccessary, I do believe that two people should be absolutely sure that it is the right thing to do. There are many emotions involved, and it is very easy for someone to get hurt. For this reason, I have been celibate for almost four years. I do not wish to cause any harm. That includes myself. When I meet someone, and I am sure it is the right thing to do, this period will be over.
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Uuuhhh!!..........
Sex is meant to please not harm. especially when the two individual appreciate each other.
Just thought I'd remind you of this.
While I respect your celibacy, it is best to try out sex fairly soon in the relationship, because that is a factor that can intervene (inadequacies, strong distastes , simply bad physical chemistry >> which is possible even when the characterial chemistry is fine) into whether to keep going in that relation.
Generally nobody is having sex with someone the do not appreciate (outside the prostitution thing) at least quite a bit!!! or else, they are masochists (and THAT my friend is a whole other debate) | Hugues, yours is the point of view of a decent human being, who respects others as well as himself. You'd be surprised at the number of people who use sex to harm others - and I'm not talking about rape (which has nothing to do with sex, anyway). Having sex with somebody who is in love with you when you are not is a wonderful way of hurting them, especially when you can't be honest about that from the very beginning. This is why I tend to endorse Bhikkhu's views, which are quite rare in men, and nowadays also in women. It's not moralism, but rather a moral issue - to me, immorality is making others suffer. I hold these views because I've suffered a lot in the past because of men's dishonest behaviour. And I could write a book about the appreciation thing... If you mean "fancy", that's one thing - pure physical chemistry. Appreciation goes deeper, and involves other aspects than the purely physical.That said, I agree with you that it's best to try sex soon in a relationship, unless one is only interested in only having a spiritual bond with their partner. |
Thanks for the support Raffaella.
My point was about emotional distress. I have been the cause, and the recipient of it in the past. I have found that even if it is just supposed to be casual, there are always some underlying emotions. You may not even realize it at first, but it can easily surface afterwards. I do not wish to cause harm in any way, shape, or form. Yes, I know that sometimes it is not intentional, but I will do my best to avoid it. That is all that can be expected.
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
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Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 15:45
Definitely yes. Morality aside, I think Woody Allen got it about right:
Sex without love is an empty experience, but as empty experiences go, it's one of the best.
And
Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer, sex raises some pretty interesting questions.
------------- 'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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Posted By: glass house
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 16:09
My oldest daughter is 11, she's not that occupied with boys. We are very open so she allready knows enough. When she is older we are gonna talk about contraceptives whether it be condoms or the pill.
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 18:54
bhikkhu wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
[QUOTE=bhikkhu]
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. | Thanks for the support Raffaella.
My point was about emotional distress. I have been the cause, and the recipient of it in the past. I have found that even if it is just supposed to be casual, there are always some underlying emotions. You may not even realize it at first, but it can easily surface afterwards. I do not wish to cause harm in any way, shape, or form. Yes, I know that sometimes it is not intentional, but I will do my best to avoid it. That is all that can be expected. |
So true.
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 18:57
Thats nice Glass House.
still 1 vote for the abstinence till marriage option.
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Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 18:59
Sean Trane wrote:
bhikkhu wrote:
I have a different view now. Although I still don't think marriage is neccessary, I do believe that two people should be absolutely sure that it is the right thing to do. There are many emotions involved, and it is very easy for someone to get hurt. For this reason, I have been celibate for almost four years. I do not wish to cause any harm. That includes myself. When I meet someone, and I am sure it is the right thing to do, this period will be over.
|
Uuuhhh!!..........
Sex is meant to please not harm. especially when the two individual appreciate each other.
Just thought I'd remind you of this.
While I respect your celibacy, it is best to try out sex fairly soon in the relationship, because that is a factor that can intervene (inadequacies, strong distastes , simply bad physical chemistry >> which is possible even when the characterial chemistry is fine) into whether to keep going in that relation.
Generally nobody is having sex with someone the do not appreciate (outside the prostitution thing) at least quite a bit!!! or else, they are masochists (and THAT my friend is a whole other debate) |
I think parents should spend more time trying to explain sex and how it is shouldn't be taken lightly but not avoided instead of trying to sacre them and make it appear as some sort of satantic ritual.
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 19:12
I think parents should not scare their children into not having sex. Sex is beautiful ( again ) when it is done within marriage IMO. Youngsters nowadays get all impulsive and stuff and jump right at the opportunity of having it. specially with the protection we now have.In the end, they just get hurt. Jumping from one sexual relationship to another. For me, if youre not ready for the result of sex, even if you think that it is the right thing to do at that time, if youre not ready-- then better not do it. Parents play a very imprtant role here, I think all of us will agree.
Not forcing anything though.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 00:15
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
I think parents should not scare their children into not having sex. Sex is beautiful ( again ) when it is done within marriage IMO. Youngsters nowadays get all impulsive and stuff and jump right at the opportunity of having it. specially with the protection we now have.In the end, they just get hurt. Jumping from one sexual relationship to another. For me, if youre not ready for the result of sex, even if you think that it is the right thing to do at that time, if youre not ready-- then better not do it. Parents play a very imprtant role here, I think all of us will agree.
Not forcing anything though. |
MM, I can understand your point of view (that's what the Catholic Church preaches, and I have it practically on my doorstep...), but I can't say I share it. There are a myriad shades of gray between the black of promiscuity and the white of marriage. I refuse to think that two people (be they of different genders or of the same) who live together without being married, but loving, respecting and supporting each other, are inferior to those who have had words said over them by a priest or a town official. I tell you this because I know of many such couples, which often show each other more respect and faithfulness than many married ones. I could tell you more from my own personal experience, but this is something I prefer not to share in a public forum.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 04:01
Ghost Rider wrote:
Hugues, yours is the point of view of a decent human being, who respects others as well as himself. >> surely that is a majority of the people you desctibe here. The point of having sex with another person is to share pleasure (this means reciprocated pleasure or else there will not be a second or next time).
You'd be surprised at the number of people who use sex to harm others - and I'm not talking about rape (which has nothing to do with sex, anyway). Having sex with somebody who is in love with you when you are not is a wonderful way of hurting them, especially when you can't be honest about that from the very beginning. >>> well this lack of honesty is also understandable, since one is often afraid of opening up to the other >> especially with today's women: tell them you love them a bit too quickly (by being sensitive) and you find that they will flee!
While women cry out for sensitive men, I actually think they are out for the strong type that can be sensitive once in a whilm and not the sensitive men that can be occasionally strong. This double language from women is quite confusing , but the women do not control who they are attracted to, but generally it is jerks they fall for, and the "nice guys" can f**k off (unfortunately only figuratively speaking)
This is why I tend to endorse Bhikkhu's views, which are quite rare in men, and nowadays also in women. I think I told you once that the sad thing is that women are trying to be the equal of men by imitating the men's worst sides (love, driving, opportunist careers, kick boxing etc...) and this is only making them wrong about it
It's not moralism, but rather a moral issue - to me, immorality is making others suffer. I hold these views because I've suffered a lot in the past because of men's dishonest behaviour. Highly biased comment , sister >>> women are just as dishonnest and even more manipulative re: sex and love than men are. And they know the formulas well: the way to a man's body is through his balls, but the way to his heart is through his stomach >>> the only one of those female proverbs I see fit to print here
And I could write a book about the appreciation thing... If you mean "fancy", that's one thing - pure physical chemistry. Appreciation goes deeper, and involves other aspects than the purely physical. >>> if you are talking of deceiving the other just in terms to be able to screw him or her, then you get into another debate, we are talking of consenting adults with reasonably honesty >> this is still over 90% of the population.
But this concerns only a small part of males which have predatory instincts and usually hang out in disco and bars. But are the women hanging out in such places not yet aware and therefore willing toplay that game . Therefore we are spaking of consenting adults also
That said, I agree with you that it's best to try sex soon in a relationship, unless one is only interested in only having a spiritual bond with their partner.
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------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 10:00
Ghost Rider wrote:
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
I think parents should not scare their children into not having sex. Sex is beautiful ( again ) when it is done within marriage IMO. Youngsters nowadays get all impulsive and stuff and jump right at the opportunity of having it. specially with the protection we now have.In the end, they just get hurt. Jumping from one sexual relationship to another. For me, if youre not ready for the result of sex, even if you think that it is the right thing to do at that time, if youre not ready-- then better not do it. Parents play a very imprtant role here, I think all of us will agree.
Not forcing anything though. |
MM, I can understand your point of view (that's what the Catholic Church preaches, and I have it practically on my doorstep...), but I can't say I share it. There are a myriad shades of gray between the black of promiscuity and the white of marriage. I refuse to think that two people (be they of different genders or of the same) who live together without being married, but loving, respecting and supporting each other, are inferior to those who have had words said over them by a priest or a town official.Agreed. But, why wouldnt they marry given all the reasons? I tell you this because I know of many such couples, which often show each other more respect and faithfulness than many married ones. I could tell you more from my own personal experience, but this is something I prefer not to share in a public forum.
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I didnt know youre female untill I read your real (?) name Ma'am!
Differences in opinions and beliefs are healthy. I celebrate it with you.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 10:43
For Hugues (sorry not to quote all of your message, but Ivan's style is not for me!):
I agree on many of the things you said, and also on the fact that women nowadays are trying to imitate the worst sides of men. I have also suffered a lot at the hands of women - obviously not in a romantic or sexual sense (I've always been into men only), but in such situations as the workplace or even friendship, so I know that women can be as mean as men, and even worse.
I'm no man-basher by any means: I love being in the company of men, and I prefer them as friends and colleagues. That said, I can't forget those who hurt me or made me feel inadequate for most of my life. As to women "crying for sensitive men" and then falling for j***s, I've never been one of these. I'm an extremely honest person and I've never been attracted by macho types. I've also never fled from somebody who said he loved me, if I loved him in return. One thing you can believe about me: I've never played any games with men, as I don't do in any kind of relationship. I'm about as open and honest as you can find, and you would realise it immediately should you meet me in person (which I hope will happen soon ).
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 10:54
Ghost Rider wrote:
For Hugues (sorry not to quote all of your message, but Ivan's style is not for me!): >>> great I do not think this site is ready for a female Ivàn The Terrible
I agree on many of the things you said, and also on the fact that women nowadays are trying to imitate the worst sides of men. I have also suffered a lot at the hands of women - obviously not in a romantic or sexual sense (I've always been into men only), but in such situations as the workplace or even friendship, so I know that women can be as mean as men, and even worse.
I'm no man-basher by any means: I love being in the company of men, and I prefer them as friends and colleagues. That said, I can't forget those who hurt me or made me feel inadequate for most of my life. As to women "crying for sensitive men" and then falling for j***s, I've never been one of these. I'm an extremely honest person and I've never been attracted by macho types. I've also never fled from somebody who said he loved me, if I loved him in return. One thing you can believe about me: I've never played any games with men, as I don't do in any kind of relationship. I'm about as open and honest as you can find, and you would realise it immediately should you meet me in person (which I hope will happen soon ).
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Hoping to meet you soon, yo!
Of course when I make these statement, they are general , and certainly not aimed at the few women present on our forums.
The last thing I would want is to aleniate them and have this place becoming a male pigsty
UUuurrrrggggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!...........
Just the thought of an all male place, with dirty clothes hanging all over the plce, last month's dishes still waitong to be done and the stained Penthouse mags
YYYyyyyyyyuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccckkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...................
Long live women!!!
JEFFERSON AIRPLANE LOVES YOU
Fly Jefferson airplane, won't you fly?
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: maani
Date Posted: July 27 2006 at 18:45
Sean:
You said, "While I respect your celibacy, it is best to try out sex fairly soon in the relationship, because that is a factor that can intervene...into whether to keep going in that relatioh[ship]."
I used to think that way, until I put that very question to a young woman Christian friend of mine who told me that she was going to wait until she was married before having sex. When I brought up your point, she said, "You could not be more wrong. If both of you are willing to build a relationship on the things that really matter - love, mutual respect and admiration, companionship, sharing, compromise, humor, shared likes, and even limitd but loving physical affection - and you do this for a year or two or more, how can the sex be anything but great? Because the physical chemistry was clearly there to begin with, and even if inadequacies or problems exist, you will know how to work through them, where others will simply give up and walk out."
I would add that although economic reasons account for most divorces, it has been estimated that sex is the second most common cause for divorce: because the relationship was built at least partly if not largely (or even primarily) on sex, if and when the sex "goes bad," the relationship will suffer disproportionately, especially if the couple does has not developed the "tools" to work through the problem.
Ghost Rider:
You said, "I refuse to think that two people...who live together without being married, but loving, respecting and supporting each other, are inferior to those who have had works said over them be a priest or town official."
What most people don't realize is that "traditional" marriage - i.e., one that includes a marriage "license" - is really a "legal contract" between three parties: the husband, the wife and the state. I would agree with you in that regard. However, as a minister, I will not marry two people who I am not convinced are entering into marriage for the correct reasons, with the proper understanding of what it means to love each other "for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, till death do you part." However, if I am convinced of this after meeting with the couple a few times prior to the wedding, then I will marry them whether or not they choose to get a formal marriage license. Because for me, obviously, it is far more important that they understand what it means to be married in God's sight than in the state's.
Peace.
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 27 2006 at 19:06
Of course.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 27 2006 at 19:44
Maani, I was waiting for you!
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 27 2006 at 22:41
Let me just say the following:
Every action has consequences.
Sex is an enormous responsibility with enormous consequences.
If you are going to have sex and are not planning to conceive,
protection is obviously essential from not only a pregnancy standpoint
but a disease and public health standpoint. Think AIDS is no big
deal? AIDS has claimed the lives of 25 million people worldwide - it is the biggest epidemic in the history of mankind.
The health issue aside, realize that even with condoms/BC pills, there
is not 100% effectiveness. So the possibility exists that
you/your partner could get pregnant. Ask yourself if you are
willing to accept the risk, and the consequences of that result.
Ask yourself how you feel about abortion. If more people put some
more thought into sex, maybe we wouldn't have all the problems we have
in this world (I know, I know, wishful thinking), but please - do NOT
think of sex as just harmless fun with no consequences.
And if you think having a baby and taking care of it would be easy, I
assure you it is not. Especially for young teens and adults.
Sermon over.
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Posted By: Dream Theater
Date Posted: July 27 2006 at 23:34
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
A friend and I was talking about this earlier. I would like to hear from the fathers here in the forum.
I am not for carrying or using contrceptives outside marriage. To be honest, I havent bought or used a condom in my entire 23 years... and yes, I'm still a virgin.. Conservative?? I think I am.
I believe that sex, is only for married couples (of the oppossite sex)
Now, please, dont get me wrong. I'm not in favor of having premarital sex. And I wouldnt let my son or my daughter carry and/or use contraceptives out of marriage.
Please keep this clean. No personnal or religious attacks. I just want to know your views.
Thanks! |
I agree with the fact that sex is only for married couples and of course I wouldn't let my son neither to carry contraceptives.
------------- [IMG]http://www.travelwithachallenge.com/Images/Travel_Article_Library/Sacred-Travel/Machu-Picchu-350.jpg"> [IMG]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/panchopc1/machupicchu-1.jpg">
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 28 2006 at 03:39
NaturalScience wrote:
Let me just say the following:
Think AIDS is no big deal? AIDS has claimed the lives of 25 million people worldwide - it is the biggest epidemic in the history of mankind. >>> not quite so! The Spanish flu eradicated up to 36 millions in the aftermath of the first world war in just two years time.
Actually AIDS is a relatively hard virus to transmit! I mean you must screw the person without a condom to get it! That means you must REALLY want to get it badly to have it
ever heard of H5N1??? The health issue aside, realize that even with condoms/BC pills, there is not 100% effectiveness. So the possibility exists that you/your partner could get pregnant. Ask yourself if you are willing to accept the risk, and the consequences of that result. Ask yourself how you feel about abortion. If more people put some more thought into sex, maybe we wouldn't have all the problems we have in this world (I know, I know, wishful thinking), but please - do NOT think of sex as just harmless fun with no consequences. >>> if people were making love a lot more than making war, the world would be a much safer place
Sermon over. ^
^^^^^^^^^^
Uuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!............... you sure? |
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 28 2006 at 03:52
maani wrote:
Sean:
You said, "While I respect your celibacy, it is best to try out sex fairly soon in the relationship, because that is a factor that can intervene...into whether to keep going in that relatioh[ship]."
I used to think that way, until I put that very question to a young woman Christian friend of mine who told me that she was going to wait until she was married before having sex. When I brought up your point, she said, "You could not be more wrong. If both of you are willing to build a relationship on the things that really matter - love, mutual respect and admiration, companionship, sharing, compromise, humor, shared likes, and even limitd but loving physical affection - and you do this for a year or two or more, how can the sex be anything but great? Because the physical chemistry was clearly there to begin with, and even if inadequacies or problems exist, you will know how to work through them, where others will simply give up and walk out." This young lady has the purest and most naïve image of marriage >> she has been reading to many romantic novels and is set up for the greatest of disillusuon >>> how many marriages had to be dissolved for reasons of non-consumption? Even the church resorted to it. How do you know the person you marry is not some kind of deviant, pervert or simply impotent?
I would add that although economic reasons account for most divorces, it has been estimated that sex is the second most common cause for divorce: because the relationship was built at least partly if not largely (or even primarily) on sex >>> come on!!! what is the percentage of those marriage being built primarily on sex?? less than 5% , maybe!!! , if and when the sex "goes bad," the relationship will suffer disproportionately, especially if the couple does has not developed the "tools" to work through the problem.
I will challenge this!
1. Economic >> OK I can believe it
2. chronic infidelity or falling in love with another person on one side
3. Tempers not agreeing on anything anymore
4. sex goes bad >> either boredom or illness issues
>>> If the sex was great before marriage, it is likely to remain great after it, unless one becomes bored with the repetition
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------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: July 28 2006 at 04:49
NaturalScience wrote:
The health issue aside, realize that even with condoms/BC pills, there is not 100% effectiveness. So the possibility exists that you/your partner could get pregnant. Ask yourself if you are willing to accept the risk, and the consequences of that result. Ask yourself how you feel about abortion. If more people put some more thought into sex, maybe we wouldn't have all the problems we have in this world (I know, I know, wishful thinking), but please - do NOT think of sex as just harmless fun with no consequences.
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It certainly has a huge consequence for the children!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10">
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 28 2006 at 13:11
Sean Trane wrote:
Actually AIDS is a relatively hard virus to transmit! I mean you must screw the person without a condom to get it! That means you must REALLY want to get it badly to have it
For an educated person in the Western world, this seems like it would be the case, however I urge you to view http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_pandemic.
Look on the subsection entitled sub-Saharan Africa. Look at the infection rates in some of those countries, and then tell me this is not a public health disaster.
ever heard of H5N1???
Yes, there was really no need to insult my intelligence to make your point. I've only spoken to the worldwide infection rates and worldwide deaths due to AIDS; any comparison of its contagiousness and lethal quickness to other viruses were not made, and are not relevant to my point.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 29 2006 at 05:56
NaturalScience wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Actually AIDS is a relatively hard virus to transmit! I mean you must screw the person without a condom to get it! That means you must REALLY want to get it badly to have it
For an educated person in the Western world, this seems like it would be the case, however I urge you to view http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_pandemic.
Look on the subsection entitled sub-Saharan Africa. Look at the infection rates in some of those countries, and then tell me this is not a public health disaster. >>> I think about 95% of Africans are aware by now , but Males do not want to wear condoms and rape is used as a war weapons >> so infected rapists are also part of the phenomenon and the big number of victims.
ever heard of H5N1???
Yes, there was really no need to insult my intelligence to make your point. I've only spoken to the worldwide infection rates and worldwide deaths due to AIDS; any comparison of its contagiousness and lethal quickness to other viruses were not made, and are not relevant to my point.
Well sorry but your post did say this was the worst lethal disease having killed the most humans. In both case this was completely incorrect, but this does not mean we do not have to worry about AIDS, though! Sorry about insulting your intelligence
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------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: July 29 2006 at 21:35
Well, as a teen, I've decided to wait until marriage, on religious grounds, but also on personal beliefs, because I've seen careless sex ruin many lives (especially my poor little half brother's.....his mom and my dad hate each other) so I'm not taking any chances. Personally, I don't think I'd let my children carry contraceptives, but I'd also make sure to teach them about what it is, not necessarily using fear tactics though. As a side note, this is all hypothetical because I'm waiting until marriage, and the probability of anyone liking me for any reason at this point is about .001 percent so I may as well go and become a eunuch. (If you can't tell, I really don't care much about sex, whereas a lot of people my age, it's the only thing they think about. These people are called "athletes")
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 30 2006 at 12:09
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 04:38
NaturalScience wrote:
Couldn't tell if your apology was sincere or not - but let's not quarrel further. Peace.
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iof it had not been sincere , I would've mentionned the black plague , the bubonic plague and the religion wars as the worst and most sickening diseases of human history >> those have killed many more than the Spanish flu also.
Just kidding
Peace
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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