your opinion on illeagaly downloading music?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Topics not related to music
Forum Name: General Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics not related to music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26508
Printed Date: November 23 2024 at 12:01
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: your opinion on illeagaly downloading music?
Posted By: hackett acolyte
Subject: your opinion on illeagaly downloading music?
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 03:19
i was thinking this morning about how some of steve hacketts newer albums are designed so that they can be listened to on the computer, but the songs cannot be removed. i was thinking that this would probably be good to prevent them losing money to the inconsiderate souls who download their music for free off programs like limewire. But this also prevents them being loaded on my ipod, which is the primary portable listening device. I mean, all mp3 devices, irivers, i pods and anything else that uses a computer to load its music onto it is now useless. If this keeps up, there will be a decline in illeagal downloading, but people will no longer listen to music on their portable music devices, meaning that the musicians will get less listeners. how is this fair? and tell me, is this convoluted or what? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/hackettacolyte/?chartstyle=patterlicious"> 
|
Replies:
Posted By: krring
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 05:36
'Should it be made legal?'? There is such a thing as legally downloading music, and... making it legal to illegally download music...?  'Too convoluted to make an opinion' is my answer, then.
Otherwise, illegally obtaining music is a great way to explore without the commitment of rewarding the artist for their work. All data albums in my collection that i revere I do strive to buy.
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 05:57
|
NO Use Napster instead - at least if you're living in a country where a service like Napster is available, there is no excuse for not using it. And if you happen to own an iPod ... well, you should have thought about that before you bought such a proprietary player.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
|
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 05:59
------------- 
|
MikeEnRegalia wrote:Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 06:27
|
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10"> 
|
Posted By: hackett acolyte
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 06:43
everytime you download a song from these programs you take away the artists cd sale. You are STEALING from them. It seems to me that it isnt the right thing to do. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/hackettacolyte/?chartstyle=patterlicious">
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 06:47
That's just not true. Maybe you should do more research on how these services work? In a nutshell: Everytime a user *listens* to a track on Napster, this information is made available to the rights holders of the track - usually this is the record company. Napster pays 70-80% of the subscription fees to the record companies, and they can use the playback statistics to forward a part of the money to the artists. So each time I listen, I'm paying the artist.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: hackett acolyte
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 07:10
i wonder if limewire has the same policy? surely not.
Im glad there are SOME fair downloading services out there, but i know there are many shifty ones which are definately not paying royalties. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/hackettacolyte/?chartstyle=patterlicious">
|
Posted By: hackett acolyte
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 07:12
and by the way, before i forget, nice avatar, i like the whale. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/hackettacolyte/?chartstyle=patterlicious">
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 07:25
|
^ aha ... you're talking about the old Napster service. It was shut down by the music industry a couple of years ago and then re-launched as a legal service. BTW: The whale is from the Gojira album from last year ... if you like experimental metal, check them out. I also believe they have some free tracks on their website. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: Australian
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 07:55
|
Illegal downloads suck, they are destroying music and the problem is basically eveyone does it. ------------- 
|
Posted By: hackett acolyte
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 07:59
quite possibly, but there is a service in Australia which is called lime wire, which im not sure if it is actualy a version of napster, but is definately follows the same program. So does share bear. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/hackettacolyte/?chartstyle=patterlicious">
|
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 08:44
FIFTH AMENDMENT!!!
------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 09:01
If you go to www.napster.com you'll see that it doesn't have anything in common with services like limewire, share bear, kazaa or edonkey ... Napster isn't about file sharing anymore. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:27
|
I voted "too convoluted to make opinion" Without filesharing, I wouldn't be writing this, because I wouldn't have discovered Prog. I download albums to check out an artist. If I like it, I order it or go out and buy it immediately. Lately though, I have been able to decide wheter to buy an album or not without downloading it first, thanks to the free mp3 streaming on this site, a really good initiative!  I am not in favor of illegal downloading, it's a handy way to discover music, but the artists does lose money. One of the main arguments of people who are pro-filesharing is that today's record prices are far too high, however, there are plenty of legitimate online stores where one can buy music (and especially prog, I've found )
at acceptable prices. So with limited free streaming on artist
websites, aswell as better information (possibly an advertisement
banner on an artist's website) on where to order CDs at good prices,
the filesharing could probably be reduced heavily. |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:31
|
In small doses for me. If the album is rare or expensive I'll download it. -------------  
|
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:37
I buy mostly used vinyls... AND THE ARTISTS GETS NOTHING!  But I get a cool vintage artifact, which nobody can share via net. As a crime, file sharing is nothing compared when people get stabbed to the face on the streets. Have you seen it ever happen?
|
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:37
|
It is a problem indeed; but they should see it coming. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:47
This is a great point, as I, too buy a lot of used vinyl. It's a great way to expand your collection legally at relatively low cost. However, the artist doesn't see a dime of used record money. What hasn't the RIAA cracked down on those communist used record store owners??!!??! ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Joolz
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 12:49
A used album has already been paid for by the original owner. The artist will only 'lose' if that person retained a copy. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 13:22
Indeed that's a reason why they're pushing the download stores: Downloaded files can't be sold. I would never buy any tracks as DRM-encrypted files for the same price as the real CD. But the Napster subscription ... that's an entirely different model, and I can only recommend you all to give it a try.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 14:00
Are Napster files free of DRM? I've heard terrible tales about Napster, but I cant say that any of them are true. I have heard that the files have DRM such that if you stop your subscription and you haven't backed up the files on CD or otherwise, they delete themselves. I have no idea how this would work, it's just a scary tall tale I've heard. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 14:08
|
^ maybe the Napster subscription model is too progressive for some people to understand ... I'll gladly try to explain: - It costs $10/month. - You can download most of their catalog as DRM-encrypted 192kbps WMA and listen to the tracks as often as you want. - Once you cancel the subscription the files simply cannot be played anymore. Why is this so great? Well, simply because for the price of one CD each month I can listen to a different album each day. Hell, I could listen to 10 new albums a day. Why is it no problem that the files cannot be played back once the subscription is cancelled? Well, simply because I buy the albums that I really like. So I only use the Napster subscription as an easy, legal and cheap way to listen to new albums extensively before I buy them. I usually buy 10 albums each month, so the extra $10 don't hurt my budget that much, considering that I save much money by being able to listen to the music that much before I decide to buy it. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 14:13
As far as I know, it would be highly complicated and costly to program a DRM system like that, and it would probably not pay off for Napster in the long run. As a matter of fact, I seriously doubt that such a system is even possible to make... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 14:16
|
^ it's really quite simple. A DRM-encrypted file carries a licence, and Windows simply refuses to play the file if the licence says that it has expired. So everytime you play a DRM-encrypted file, the player analyses the licence and - if it is outdated - queries the licence server to find out if the licence has been renewed, or if it has expired.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 14:20
Well apparently they have.  I dont know, Mike.... The Napster deal sounds sort of enticing on the surface, but I just can't shake my (paranoid?) fear of DRM. I, too eventually buy the CDs of the albums I like, but until then the files I rip from others or from CD's in the radio library are unencumbered by magical digital voodoo. honestly though, you make a good case for Napster, and I might try it... someday... when I'm sure I'll have a steady $10 in my bank account every month  ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 15:00
Same here. But I usually get the album eventually after that.
------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: dralan
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 20:18
|
I think ultimatley it should be left up to the artist to have control over their own music. I think free downloads are a great way for an up and coming artist to get his work heard to a wide audience.
As was mentioned if I like something well enough I prefer to have the CD for my own collection.
|
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 22:33
|
I don't like downloading at all(legao or illegal) so no wai! It can be good to try something before purchasing if you're unsure though.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 23:28
I agree. There's something that I really love about having the actual CD/vinyl with the casing and artwork and pictures and lyrics and notes and stuff. Downloading a song can't do that for me. It's like an experience.  |
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 02:16
| Mike, it's interesting to hear about the revised legal Napster. But can one find underground stuff from there? Like ASH RA TEMPEL, RUFUS ZUPHALL, etc. And are all of the files from official releases only? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 02:38
|
^ of course Napster only offers tracks from official releases. But there are some really rare albums available - it's certainly not only mainstream. For example they have Painkiller - Execution Ground, Mike Keneally - Wooden Smoke, Robert Wyatt (most studio releases), The Residents ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: hackett acolyte
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 04:23
|
i find i dont have a problem with people using these things as taste testers, but they have to buy the album aswell, or they are cheating and stealing. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/hackettacolyte/?chartstyle=patterlicious">
|
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 04:46
OK, thanx for info!
 |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 07:04
|
^ no problem! I even created a page on my website today which lists more albums: http://www.ratingfreak.com/home/albums/napster.xhtml - http://www.ratingfreak.com/home/albums/napster.xhtml ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: hackett acolyte
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 07:18
wow, my first successful thread since my return, im proud. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/hackettacolyte/?chartstyle=patterlicious">
|
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 07:40
It's honourable how much effort you put into things you see improtant! As a development hint, the list would be more useful if the material would be in alphabetical order in my opinion.
 How does the material get into Napster v.2, are they from user shares or does the server upkeeper provide them?
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 07:48
|
^ thanks! Currently the list is sorted by album name, I'll group it by artist later (currently I'm busy with work). The tracks available through Napster are supplied by the music industry and hosted on servers owned by Napster. It's really got nothing to do with file sharing or P2P anymore. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: Dream Theater
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 14:32
I hate download music from the Internet..  ------------- [IMG]http://www.travelwithachallenge.com/Images/Travel_Article_Library/Sacred-Travel/Machu-Picchu-350.jpg"> [IMG]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/panchopc1/machupicchu-1.jpg"> |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 15:02
If you would have done a search you would have seen that this has been debated over and over and over again in the forum,and quite a few of those threads got closed because of arguments and such. -------------  |
Posted By: Kord
Date Posted: August 07 2006 at 03:41
|
in my country the price of CDs is very high (a single CD can cost 21 euros, some times....that's too much)...so if prices are so high it's normal that people download music mp3 or other....if prices went down, for example, I'd buy more CDs...I think that if prices didn't go down it should be legal to download music... ------------- [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Genesis_Group.jpg" border"> |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: October 19 2006 at 21:59
| No. I would say artists' choice, but that would convolute the whole matter and create more fuzz than it's worth. It either needs to be legal or illegal. I say illegal. |
Posted By: CaptainQuark
Date Posted: October 20 2006 at 12:32
|
I'm kinda half way. I do download "illegally", but that's only because the price of CDs is so high. I will download a few tracks from an album and if I like what I hear, I'll buy the album, replacing the illegally downloaded tracks with the legally acquired ones. If I don't like what I hear… well what's the point of cluttering up my hard disk with music I don't like?
I think all artists should release a few tracks from their albums to be passed around. Spineshank did that with their 2003 album "Self-Destructive Pattern". Part way through the track, the music faded and there was an announcement of the track's name, the album's name and the date of its release. I liked what I heard, so now I have that album.
Simple, really!
------------- Erithacus Ordinary morals are for ordinary people ~ Aleister Crowley |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: October 20 2006 at 15:40
Illegally downloading music should be illegal.
(It stands to reason that if it were made legal, it wouldn't be illegal downloading.)  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 20 2006 at 16:02
|
The artist can decide if he wants the music to be freely avaliable to the public, but it usually won't matter because the labels usually have control of pressing and distribution, not the artists. And in the case of indie labels, I doubt most would even bother prosecuting any file sharer.
My overall position is NO.
But perhaps after all the artist(s) is(are) dead, then it should be free game. I think it's a bit shifty for labels to continue making nifty amounts of cash on dead artist's music, when all they did was let him write is and distibute it. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: October 20 2006 at 16:03
|
I used to have quite a few of illegaly downloaded records. One day I accidentally deleted them all...
I don't download music any more (only from legal sources). ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 20 2006 at 17:39
| Artists choice. Downloading music illegaly is stealing from the artist, BUT some don't care. It just makes sense to me they should decide. |
Posted By: Badabec
Date Posted: October 21 2006 at 10:13
You hit the nail on the head! Illegal downloads suck!  But in my country child absuser get weaker punishments than people who download illegal! THAT SHOWS THAT THE TRUE POWER LIES BY THE COMPANIES. DAMN CAPITALISM!!!   ------------- Mesmo a tristeza da gente era mais bela E além disso se via da janela Um cantinho de céu e o Redentor - Antônio Carlos Jobim, Toquinho & Vinícius de Moraes - Carta ao Tom 74 |