Most complex, challenging, original neo-prog band?
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Topic: Most complex, challenging, original neo-prog band?
Posted By: Logan
Subject: Most complex, challenging, original neo-prog band?
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 16:08
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Hi, I admit I'm not a big fan of neo-prog bands... yet. But I
still haven't heard nearly enough to have a strong opinion.
I am genuinely quite ignorant about neo-prog music. Which band would you recommend most for those into challenging, complex, intelligent and ground-breaking progressive rock music? Basically bands that blew the roof off of the progressive music scene, turned it on its head, turned it inside out, and brought prog to a whole new level that is so dizzyingly high that even prog-astronauts flying merely by the seat-of-their-pants would suffer terrible vertigo? I mean stuff so sophisticated that even the most wordly and erudite doctors of prog risk collapsing in an aurally-induced coma due to the technical and artistic wizardy they have been subjected to. You know, stuff so mind-blowing that casual listeners risk having a nuclear explosion going off in their heads thus splattering bits of grey matter over a five mile radius. Or if that seems a bit extreme, hyperbole-wise, neo-prog bands that brought the most progression to the prog genre. The neo-prog band, that in your opinion, most boldly progressed to where no prog band had gone before. (sorry about the Trek reference since Spock's Bored [sic] is listed as symph). I guess Marillion is a most obvious choce for progressing prog as they were instrumental (haha pun intended) in kick-starting the new prog movement. But since I have listed various criteria, they may may not be the best choice over-all. IQ: another early neo-prog band and possible my favourite, has, namely-speaking, intelligence as a major part of the quotient. Is IQ high or low brow progwise to you? Tsunami: never heard these guys, but have they rideen the biggest wave on the tide of the new prog, or a washout? Visible Wind: Never heard these guys either, but I love the name. Did they ride on the winds of progress or did they blow? Noxious fumes, a breath of fresh air, or full of hot air? Did an ill wind breaketh and bloweth? Did they literally blow [out] chunks and that's why the wind is visible, or was it just dust in the wind? More artsy or fartsy? Why is the wind visible, and is it metaphorical? Sorry, I digress. Evolution: well there's a progressive name if there ever was one. Progressive music must evolve to remain progressive, I quite agree. And like-wise, judging by name alone, I suppose Magus might be considered the true wizard of neo-prog though i'm sure there's pleanty of magic out there in neo-prog land. Anyway, like to hear your thoughts. |
Replies:
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 16:11
| IQ followed by Satellite. Marillion with Fish is great too. |
Posted By: theytsejamer
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 17:16
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IQ, Marillon, Pendragon, Iluvatar (In this Order) ------------- SMR.... |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 17:19
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Marilllion, they are truly original and exciting. They're pretty much the only neo-prog I listen to and like. -------------  
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 18:04
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Marillion for me, too. Without a doubt, they can rival any band as being innovative and unique. I'm talking about the Hogarth era, too. Anyone who says that the Fish era is more unique need only to listen and watch Fish's best Gabriel impersonation. Hogarth copied nobody.
E ------------- 
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Posted By: pepo
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 18:16
| Echolyn |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 18:20
TWELFTH NIGHT BY FAR, Fact And Fiction is one of the most original neo-prog rock albums of all times  !
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Posted By: Revan
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 18:45
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Galleon is really great, quite obscure though.
------------- 
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 19:02
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I just voted for the band I like, Discipline.
------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 19:32
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Orignial: Marillion or IQ
Complex: Sanes
Challenging: Depends on how you define challenging, but Saens probably wins.
Overall: Saens, ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 19:34
I don't have any of their albums, but on their website I've listened to some of their songs. They're not terrible or amazing, but I'd put them on the level of Twelfth Night (for me 3/5 as a band rating) barring hearing Narcissus goes to the Moon or the debut. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Logan wrote:Posted By: Dream Theater
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 20:30
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Marillion!!
------------- [IMG]http://www.travelwithachallenge.com/Images/Travel_Article_Library/Sacred-Travel/Machu-Picchu-350.jpg"> [IMG]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/panchopc1/machupicchu-1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Open-Mind
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 20:45
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I'll pick Marillion
------------- "I'm on a roll, I'm on a roll this time, I feel my luck could change.. " |
Posted By: Dorsalia
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 23:01
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Arena are too underrated, I think most people don't even know them well but they just put in the same box with all the other supposed "Neo-Prog" bands.
In the beggining Arena may have been very similar in style to bands like Marillion and maybe Genesis, but since the "The Visitor" album, they have forged their own style (just listen to songs like "The Hanging Tree" or "The Butterfly Man", I haven't heard any other bands doing things like that). And the almost 20 minute epic "Moviedrome" is espectacular, and in my opinion one of the most coherent, and best composed songs of this prog-repeated length in the history of prog rock.
Pepper's Ghost, may not be the best example of this, since I consider it to be one of the lesser Arena albums, but listen to the essential albums: The Visitor, Immortal? and Contagion. These albums are all excellent in quality and are worth being considered among the best that prog rock has produced after the 70's.
And plus, Clive Nolan writes some of the best lyrics I've ever read in my life, by any band.
The category "Neo-Prog" is just another stupid prejudice in the end, like all category's, genre's and labels.
"Label me, and you deny me." That's what I think.
------------- "Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls." |
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 00:24
I second this. Great album.
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 00:46
Sanes??  ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 00:48
You're totally fugazi!
  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 00:51
Personally, I've always though The Visitor, Immortal? and Contagion were too dark and too close to meodern rock (except Movidrome, of course and several exceptions here and there). I much prefer the Pendragon-esque sweeping style of music earlier on. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: progadicto
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 00:57
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MARILLION Pendragon Collage Carptree... in this order... Love and Peace---- ------------- ... E N E L B U N K E R... |
Posted By: razifa
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 01:36
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Satellite is original and tasteful. Complex? Well, this is not Magma nor Zero Hour but Satellite is a band with a defying and relaxing sound and I think making this high quality music is not easy, so I think Satellite is Complex. Defying? Indeed one of the most defying bands in Neo-prog world!! Highly recommended for Symphonic Prog lovers!!! ------------- ********** **razifa** ********** |
Posted By: SirPsycho388
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 02:22
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MARILLION!!!!!!!! ------------- Strangers passing in the street by chance two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me. And do I take you by the hand and lead you through the land and help me understand the best I can |
Posted By: martinprog77
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 04:41
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for me IQ they are getting better and better every new album ------------- Nothing can last there are no second chances. Never give a day away. Always live for today. |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 12:42
DISCIPLINE and THE WATCH,because they're not neo anymore - New Symphonic  .Symphonic Team,will you take them? 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 14:01
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Heartfelt thanks for all the responses. Very informative. I
realised that I'd been rather dismissive of neo-prog in the past -- but
that I was also ill-informed and in error when delving deeper. Great
thing about prog is there's always more to learn and understand. In fact, certain bands not long ago that I'd considered regressive more than progressive were not classified as neo-prog, just assumed -- btw, I like more modern bands that draw heavily on classic prog, but also expand on it and have their own take on it like Anglagard I'd say. Anyway, after sampling some of Discipline and The Watch, I gotta say I am truly impressed. While I'm still fairly ignorant when it comes to the prog subgenres, I'm inclined to agree with you Prog-jester. From what I heard, new symphonic seemed a better label than neo-prog for those two bands. Neo-prog primarily or not, those are really good bands. Thanks. On thing, though, that I still find a little lacking in most, not all. of the bands I sampled (I own no neo-prog albums) is the rythms/ time signatures -- which is a key factor for me when it comes to hearing the progginess. Quite a lot of the relatively little neo-prog I've heard seemed simple in a kind of New Wave sort of way. But I haven't heard nearly enough to have an informed opinion generally. All I can really say is that there's clearly a lot of good stuff out there. At this time I'm particularly thankful for dicovering Prog-jester's choices, but I'll sample much more when time permits. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 14:44
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another wrong use of the term "oxymoron". an oxymoron is NOT a
contradiction; on the contrary, it is two opposites merging to form a
new concept. examples are "bittersweet" or "a deafening silence"
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 15:28
I don't wish to get off-topic, however... Your're barking up the wrong-tree, or at least being horribly pedantic, when looking for logical syntax in my wordings. I'm a pseudo-lexicologist who goes boldly where no linguist has gone before. Call me a rebel. Actually, I strive for effect more than accuracy -- often things are implied within a certain context. Primarily, I chose oxymoron over contradiction so I could make the cliche moron joke. Self-deprecating LOL@me is my predominant style.  However, that gentle joking aside, to the real matter-at hand...While it's not the best-worded 'phrase', I had meant it as "a figure of speech where apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction." (OED definition). My example was "...truly original neo-prog." Now the words "new" and "original" can mean exactly the same... Of course, as I'm using "neo" in the sense of a revival, "original-neo" does in a sense present a contradiction, but the terms "original neo-prog" in such juxtaposition most definitely forms a new concept (call it neo-conceptualisation), and that was something I recognised all along. There's kind of a dialectic thing happening here, but, alas, the humorous intent was perhaps not evident. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 16:05
well, from that point of view the choice of "oxymoronic" is justified, and I retract what I uttered before ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 19:05
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My vote goes to Visible Wind, but again they are not Neo - they are purely Symphonic Prog IMO, and an excellent band.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: August 12 2006 at 14:06
| Frost* !!! |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: August 12 2006 at 15:38
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 12 2006 at 16:02
Stonebeard, you neo-prog specialist: have you never heard Twelfth Night or don't you like this amazing and innovative progrock band  ?
Logan: how could you open this thread without Twelfth Night as a choice, I don't understand
? |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 12 2006 at 16:42
No, I have Fact and Fiction, but though I like it, I just don't think it's as good as you or Cert say it is. Probably between a 3-4/5 for me, but it's gaining momentum. I near hated it on first listen. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 12 2006 at 16:50
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Re: The Watch and Discipline
Dicipline was added to Neo-Prog from Symphonic, and I hadn't even heard them when the change was being brought up, so I couldn't remark on the change at all there. The Watch is a tougher call. Vacuum does sound a bit like Genesis instrumentally and the singer sounds very very much like gabriel, but the music is much simpler than Genesis or most Symphonic Prog from what I can make of it. Essentially, the blurring occurs here. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: August 12 2006 at 18:16
It's an acquired taste - and Teaflax is living proof that you can actually lose the taste for it. How remains a mystery to me - but I'm sure that one day it'll go "ping" and he'll realise the greatness of "Fact and Fiction" once again. Anyway - the answer to the topic question is Twelfth Night - but only that album. Fish Marillion have the most complex lyrics of any (Prog) rock band ever - and I'd say the music of "Script..." is challenging, as so many don't seem to get it. The other thing about Marillion's music up to "Clutching..." is the deceptive simplcity of it - you just don't get bands writing true polyphony of that quality, even among the "classic" bands. Just simple lines, intertwining... ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 12 2006 at 18:17
It needs a few turns more, Stonebeard ! And about Marillion and IQ, I love these bands, I grew up with them but challenging, complex or original, not in comparison with the early Twelfth Night, the androgyn glam proggers  !
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Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: August 13 2006 at 03:23
I've not yet heard Saens, so I'm not going to contest that, but from what I've heard: Original: Twelfth Night or Marillion. Complex: Abraxas or Collage/Satellite. Challenging: Carptree perhaps. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: August 13 2006 at 08:50
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Marillion is my favorite, but IQ may fit your criteria better (if only by a very small amount). Anglagard is also a very good choice. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 14 2006 at 14:33
Because, as I said in my initial post, "I am genuinely quite ignorant about neo-prog." Mind you, I'm learning fast. After a little research, I can now say that the list would be improved with the inclusion of Twelfth Night, as they are such an early neo-prog band. They predate Marillion by years. I wonder if UK should be considered an early neo-prog band rather than symphonic prog? They sound more neo-proggish to me (probably why I don't like UK). I listened to a sample of Twelfth Night as this site ("Fact and Fiction") and it sounds very New Wave to me - I didn't like it. ALthough I do like some New Wave, the NW (or punk), influence does put me off much neo-prog. Anyway, being a neo-prog neobie [sic], I mostly chose the names off the http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=18 - Neo Progressive 20 key studio albums list, and Twelfth Night doesn't have an album in the 'top-twenty' -- Abraxas does, but I didn't inlude that either. For the other band-name options, I chose on name alone (in aid of the post that accompanies the poll). Visible Wind, in particular, evoked such positively disgusting imagery that I felt compelled to include it. Bhikkhu, I consider Anglagard to be a most excellent band. Of the newer prog bands, they are one of the few that I consider to be at least the equals of classic prog masters. Both studio albums are brilliant, I wish they had continued. Mind you, although they are a neo-prog band in a sense (as they are not a prog band from the classic period thought they draw inspiration from bands of that time), they are, of course, listed here in the symphonic prog category. They are, perhaps, considered too 'complex and sophisticated' (loaded terms, I know) for neo-prog categorization, and lack the New Wave qualities that many of the neo prog bands have. They definitely have a different sound from what is considered neo-prog at this site. Mind, you, there are band listed under symphonic prog that I don't consider sophisticated or virtuostic, and bands listed under neo-prog which do show complexity. Some bands I'd defined as neo-prog, which are listed here as symphonic, before getting involved in this this site (Spock's Beard, Flower Kings, Transatlantic). They're not classic bands, which makes the neo, and have modern AOR-type sounds to my ears (coupled with a retro-prog aesthetic). |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 17 2006 at 17:27
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Just a note: I was finally able to able buy Discipline's Unfolded Like Staircase (funds have been a little scarce due to some unforseen enormous expenses and I dont like living in debt) and it is brilliant! Thanks Prog-Jester, you weren't joking! If all neo-prog was as good as that, I'd be a huge fan of the subgenre. But, plenty of other great neo-prog was recommended to me, and I look forward to experiencing it. The Watch is next. I've always expected, though, that no matter what prog camp one prefers, one will find personal gems in the other subgenres. Next I have to find the prog metal bands that will appeal to me, since that's the one category that I haven't cracked successfully yet (though I do quite like DT, but I want to dig deeper into the genre for osbcure bands)... Just need to find metal that doesn't take itself, or subject matter, too seriously -- one where a sense of humour and fun is there, and one that contrasts the lighter side with the darker side. |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: August 17 2006 at 17:38
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I think ProgArchives does not agree with me on this, but I think HALLOWEEN could fit into that idea of complex Neo prog. Mmm... I'll read the definition again; Halloween is listen under Symphonic Prog, but I tend to think about them as Morgan Freeman related, so... Anyway, do try some Halloween and let me know what you think of them. Perhaps you'll like them as Symphonic prog not Morgan Freeman related. Still, they are into the right years, at least... ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: August 17 2006 at 19:11
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Halloween are very good band, but they are not Neo, same concerns Visible Wind, same concerns Egoband etc etc... I find this strange tendency that best Neo bands are not Neo actually.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: August 17 2006 at 21:08
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I'd say Saens were the most complex band of those clased as neo on this site, but I rackon their Symphonic and not Neo anyway. Of the bands that are undoubtedly neo, I would say Marillion. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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