Pantera shooting Iowa
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2473
Printed Date: February 12 2025 at 11:05
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Topic: Pantera shooting Iowa
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Subject: Pantera shooting Iowa
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 15:48
| I `m going to be serious here. I tutor Mathematics and Chemistry to high school students and some at the university level. Just a few hours ago one of my young students told me about a horrific incident which ocurred in Souix City. During the concert some maniac with a concealable weapon opened fire and killed the bass player on stage and several spectators. I haven`t had very much time of late to keep track of all the bad news whhich is transmitted through the various forms of media sources. Can anyone provide any details? If this brief piece of information is accurate, I will have to say that we just might as well pack it in if we can`t feel safe at a musical event. There have always been problems at rock music concerts, ie crowd control, fist fights, drugs, rowdiness but nothing like this. Can anyone provide any further details. I will be on line tomorrow evening. |
Replies:
Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 15:50
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see the dimebag died thread. pantera/damageplan legendary guitarist Dimebag Darrell was shot on stage alone with another band member and some fans. ------------- The Worthless Recluse 
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 15:52
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I clashed with Frenchie posting my response
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 16:29
| very tragic. i dunno how the gunman got past security. |
Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 16:33
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wouldn't have happened in a country that doesn't legalise, glorify and defend the right to bear arms |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 16:36
| damn straight |
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 17:10
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Yeh, it would... and it happens all the time. Anyone can get a gun anywhere, if they have enough money and want one bad enough. Evidently this guy was upset because Dimebag quit Pantera and started his own band.... now thats really fanatic obsession... ------------- THIS IS ELP 
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Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 17:11
Who says the gun he was weilding was legal? I'm sure in your prescious, safe countries the bad guys can obtain illegal arms easily enough. Save your self-righteous banter for another place. We americans are sick and tired of you. |
arcer wrote:Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 17:15
ifwhiteamericatoldthetruthforonedayitsworldwouldfallapart (manics) america is a joke |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 17:20
envious and jealous...aren't we? A joke who has more money, military arms and might than your pathetic has been country. Europe is past it's prime!! |
Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 17:24
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ah, fabulous arguments - anyone can get a gun anywhere if they want and have enough money. However, I would imagine that our firend was not linked with any criminal element, which he would have to be here, in order to obtain a gun. No, it was probably a case of this poor, obviously disturbed chap walking in off the street and purchasing this gun, or perhaps sourcing it from a member of his family. I am a regular citizen, living in a country where firearms are illegal. I do not know how to buy a guy, nor would I know how to seek out the information needed to contact someone who would be willing to sell one. It is, contrary to the belief of most Americans, very very difficult to buy a gun here unless you already associate with elements who already use them. And those elements are not as prevalent as television would love you to believe. Gdub - your fury at my self-righteous banter cannot disguise the fact hat there are more gun-related deaths in the US than in, I would imagine, all other developed countries. Wonder why? |
Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 17:27
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oh i might add that I'm not some rabid anti-american. I love the place. The more I go, the more I like it. I just think some of your customs and policies are a trifle odd and a little dangerous. Why do you want to bear arms anyway? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 18:20
but arent we better if we have less military arms, money and might?  something to ponder
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Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 18:29
Could only happen in a discussion with Greg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God, I love this place.
------------- 
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 18:43
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Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 18:47
It's legal if a guy in a flat cap with a peak gives you the co-ordinates. -------------
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 18:51
| Being a former military man and having limited small arms training I believe that only law enforcement authorities and the military should have the legal authority to bear arms. I can`t even understand why people have to hunt for sport anymore. Go and check out the meat department in your local supermarket. |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 20:06
A weak military invites aggression. This has been proven throughout History. If your country was sitting next to China you might have something to fear. Luckily England has the luxury of knowing if they get attacked, the USA will be there to defend them. Fortunately for most of the free world they have the security of knowing we'll be there for them. We're like your Big protective Brother. |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 20:09
Guns don't murder people. People murder people. The last time I looked Canada qualifies as america, doesn't it? P.S....once we've chopped down all our trees we're coming over and taking all yours. |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 20:13
Ya know Dub, as a fellow American and a member of the Law Enforcement community.... Please stop. You're killing me. 
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 20:16
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------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Merry Christmas!
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 20:17
| Why? I see at least 20 anti-american post/day on this site and do nothing. I speak out that I am tired of it and have both american and european's pissed at me. Why is this one sided? Why should we be the punching bag every damn day? ANSWER ME THAT!!!! |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 20:18
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------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 20:18
ifwhiteamericatoldthetruthforonedayitsworldwouldfallapart (manics) america is a joke[/QUOTE] case in point....I am always reactionary! I don't start this stuff. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 20:19
I'm really getting sick of this sh*t every time I log on here! ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Arioch
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 21:44
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I've noticed it too but you need to relax. ------------- Knight of the Swords Lord of Entropy Duke of Chaos |
Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 22:11
You must understand that at one time the US was once a subject nation, under the yoke of an Imperialist tyranny which threatened to cover the globe with their greed and egotism. Although the Empire is almost completely vanished, the negative repercussions continue to this day, all over the globe. By protecting the right to bear arms, our forefathers were trying to safeguard the people from oppression. Many years later (in fact, within the last century), another subject nation was finally succesful in breaking free of subjugation from the same repressive tyranny. This country's current freedom is due in no small part to the use of weaponry, obtained almost exclusively through illegal means and financed largely with the assistance of citizens of the US. Although the bloody conflict is lamentable, the presence of an armed resistance was the main element that forced the ruling country to recognize the smaller country's legitimacy. Anyone need the names of these countries filled in? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi"> 
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Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 00:06
You don't have to be linked to a criminal element.. you just have to know someone who has a gun, and the audacity to steal it from them... that could happen in any country. I have a friend whose brother is a policeman in Paris. HIs girlfriend stole his personal revolver and shot his ex-girlfriend. Imagine that... in France....geez, how shocking!!
You evidently have a misconception of what the process is in purchasing a gun in this country... the background checks are pretty intensive and it takes quite a while to get it done. Maybe Dan can give you a better idea on this.
I am also a regular citizen who doesn't have any contact with the criminal element, but I bet you if I had $500, I could go out and purchase a gun somewhere near here for less than that.
A few years ago, there were more knife stabbing deaths in Finland than any other country. Do you think they should of banned knives from the country? ------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: Wizard/TRueStar
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 00:20
It's not guns that are the problem. If someone wants to kill someone they will kill someone. That's all there is to it. They will find a way. |
Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 09:11
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In reply to all the Americans who got quite rabidly
upset by my post: To be honest, this was a needless act of provocation on my part. I knew it would get certain people exercised and that people's views on this are entrenched and reactionary - on both sides. It was a easy mark and I took it, and one I should probably have left alone. However, I firmly believe that the possession of firearms, hunting knives, crossbows, etc should be firmly regulated. Heavy regulation of possession does not curtail people’s right to hunt (though i also believe that in most cases that pursuit is wrong, as I believe all blood sports - of which Ireland is an unfortunate champion - are cruel and wrong). If you want to hunt and your country endorses it, then do so, intense regulation of access to firearms will not prevent you indulging in your pastime if you are a legitimate user of firearms for sporting means. It is the way it is in the bulk of Europe and sport shooting is in a healthy state judging by Olympic performance. I do believe that the NRA in the US is a reactionary organisation that seeks to preserve a status quo no longer relevant in more enlightened times. Its relentlessly negative attitude to progressive, meaningful gun control reinforces and exacerbates the problem US society has with guns. In short I believe its ultra-conservative stance encourages a 'over my dead body' attitude in which the possibility of armed resistance is positively relished. I agree, broadly, that people not guns kill people, but if you give people guns then the propensity for killing is vastly increased. it is basic common sense. While I did seek to provoke a response, my opinions on gun control are not an attack on 'the american way'. I like america and americans. I fundamentally disagree with certain aspects of policy and outlook with regard to foreign policy and US domestic lawmaking (The Patriot Act) and am dismayed by the increasingly inward-looking attitude of 'fortress' america. For a country founded on the principles of 'give me your poor, your huddled masses' etc, it is a sorry pass for such an initially radically liberal country to come to. James made some points about freedom from the yoke of oppressive regimes and the dangers of imperialism. There is a lesson of history there that appears lost to the current holders of the superpower title. It is a tale oft told throughout history and those who do not learn the lessons of hoistory are doomed to repeat them. The fall of countless empires throughout the ages has been predicated on expansion, complacency (inspired by riches and the monopolisation of power) and the eventual isolationism brought about by the threat and increasing dissafection of those whose futures are being determined by the vested interests of empire. it is a boom and bust cycle that a wise potentate would not ignore. Also James’ points about Ireland's bloody struggle for freedom in the War of Independence and the resultant Civil War are well made but choose to avoid a salient point. Once freedom was won and the power struggles of the various local factions were partially resolved, the right-thinking people of this island chose to abandon their weapons and attempt to return to a arms-free existence. We have an unarmed police force and owing to our recent (within the last 10 years) experience with internal strife we have a very prohibitive stance on the possession of firearms. It works. We have, outside of a smattering of gangland related shootings, a gun-free culture. There are few firearms related crimes here. We are far form perfect, indeed there are many aspects of life that frustrate me as greatly as anything i get riled about in other countries - and that includes afghanistan, france, britain, japan, angola anywhere where injustices or exclusions are perpetrated. But the statistics on gun control, still do not lie. America is a wonderful idea, but like all ideals it is imperfectly formed. Just because we Europeans (and many others) question the imperfections does not mean that we are hostile to the ideal. Indeed, true democracy is about discourse is it not? |
Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 14:47
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^ See, we can all have different points of view without getting acrimonious about it! Very well stated...I suspected that the initial post didn't fully sum up your feelings on the matter. Now for the more serious question: why are all your posts formatted so narrowly? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi">
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Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 14:53
Hate to break the cycle of group-hugging but Anyone else find the above statement ridiculous? Anyone can get anything (available) if they have enough money ie WMD,anything.What a pointless statement. -------------
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Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 14:54
cos he's a journo! -------------
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Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 15:11
| cause i have a narrow outlook |