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top 100 prog bands

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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2463
Printed Date: November 30 2024 at 09:48
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Topic: top 100 prog bands
Posted By: yarstruly
Subject: top 100 prog bands
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 13:23
http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_artistsprog.html - http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_artistsprog.html

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Replies:
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 13:30

Interesting....I don't agree with some of the bands on there...but still cool. I'm also having trouble with the whole Rush being higher than Pink Floyd bit as well.

Toto, Primus, Blood Sweat and Tears and Portis Head are prog?



Posted By: Proghead
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 13:31
Maybe Primus.


Posted By: Vegetableman
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 13:32
Thats a terrible list, a good number aren't prog and they are missing quite a few big ones.

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"Mister Fripp, your music is quite different than everything else out there. In one word, how would you describe it?"

"Progressive.... yeah, that's it..."


Posted By: yarstruly
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 13:45
I just found that link right before I posted...but it seems as though you can add an opinion and that the list is ever-changing.....

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Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 13:48
Originally posted by gdub411 gdub411 wrote:

Interesting....I don't agree with some of the bands on there...but still cool. I'm also having trouble with the whole Rush being higher than Pink Floyd bit as well.

Toto, Primus, Blood Sweat and Tears and Portis Head are prog?

I have trouble with King Crimson and ELP being placed higher than Rush.

Greg, I bet you have trouble tying your laces of a morning.



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Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 13:55
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

I have trouble with King Crimson and ELP being placed higher than Rush.

Rush??  I

 I have a problem with ELP not being at least second..behind KC.



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THIS IS ELP


Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 13:59
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by gdub411 gdub411 wrote:

Interesting....I don't agree with some of the bands on there...but still cool. I'm also having trouble with the whole Rush being higher than Pink Floyd bit as well.

Toto, Primus, Blood Sweat and Tears and Portis Head are prog?

I have trouble with King Crimson and ELP being placed higher than Rush.

Greg, I bet you have trouble tying your laces of a morning.

Bugger Off Troll!!



Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 14:15
Tongue

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Posted By: Proghead
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 14:17
Ben Dover ???


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 15:34
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by gdub411 gdub411 wrote:

Interesting....I don't agree with some of the bands on there...but still cool. I'm also having trouble with the whole Rush being higher than Pink Floyd bit as well.

Toto, Primus, Blood Sweat and Tears and Portis Head are prog?

I have trouble with King Crimson and ELP being placed higher than Rush.

Greg, I bet you have trouble tying your laces of a morning.

Me too!! Higher than Rush  Thats just nonesense...

I have trouble with my laces in the morning, but thats probably something to do with being bleary eyed, half asleep and stumbling around in darkness. I seem to get up before the rest of the human race!!



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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 15:35

^

I follow Jon Andeson's lead on that one:

I get up, I get down

then I go back to bloody sleep!LOL



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Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 15:38

The ending of my list would look something like this

998 Mariah Carey

999 Rush

1000 Yes



Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 15:47

Wow, Greg's got 1000 fingers!

 



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Posted By: Wrath_of_Ninian
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 16:19

What utter tosh.

69. Kate Bush

70. Can

??????????????????????????????????????????  How does that work?

83. Blood Sweat & Tears. 

107. Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso

Do these people know what prog is?  I was half expecting Stevie Wonder to appear at one point.  They couldn't even spell Hatfield & The North correctly (No. 147 !!!!).

None of the bands I like even made it into the top 46. 

Shut them down and destroy their gene pools.



Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 16:30

It would betrer if they had just charted 'Progressive' artists and not specified 'Progressive ROCK'

Kate Bush is progressive IMO, just not rock



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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Wrath_of_Ninian
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 16:35

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest she wasn't, just that she was higher up than Can, who are without question one of the most influential and brilliant BANDS (never mind prog bands) of the 1970s.

I love Babooshka and Wow, and all that Heathcliff stuff.  Apparently she wrote it all herself - in her TEENS.  Where is she now I wonder...?



Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 16:44

Electric Light Orchestra???

The Beatles????

Queensryche ABOVE Gong, Hawkwind, BJH, PFM, Amon Duul, Aphrodite's Child...

Toto?

Yngwie Malmsteen?

Hatfield and the North at 147?????

Since when where the Moodies a "psychedelic progressive band"? Kraftwerk Krautrock? Dream Theater neo-prog?

 

That list was put together by retards, surely...

 

I stuck some comments up there - I'll prolly regret them tomorrow, as I'm a significant way down this bottle of Highland Park...



Posted By: benny bouncer
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 17:13
erm GENESIS   NUMBER 3......these guys have to listen to them before they place them that high!  


Posted By: selling_echoes
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 19:43
Originally posted by benny bouncer benny bouncer wrote:

erm GENESIS   NUMBER 3......these guys have to listen to them before they place them that high!  


Sorry man, must disagree.
My top three would be Pink Floyd, Genesis and Yes. But meh. That being me, and me being young and unexperiences with Prog.


Posted By: Wizard/TRueStar
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 19:52

I like how they put Yngwie Malmsteen on the list



Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 20:50

Dream Theater Neo Prog? (Look at the right side)

STYX before Anglagard, Rick Wakeman, PFM. The Strawbs, etc?

Genesis N° 3??? Should be N°1 at least the Gabriel era.

ASIA N° 21????? Should be at leat 210

TOTO Prog? I would say cheap POP instead.

California Guitar Trio is an excelent band but not remotely prog.

ELO N°12? Not really prog and one of the top in the list.

Happy The Man Psychedelic??? (Again at the right)

Holy God, this guys are clueless!!!!!!!!

Iván

 



Posted By: madgo2
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 21:32
How about  Jeff Beck or David Bowie, for his Berlin releases, they probably should be of course he is missing Bebop Deluxe, Roxy Music, and Supertramp...what about Beggars Opera just to name a few.

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He whom life can no longer surprise


Posted By: Lunarscape
Date Posted: December 09 2004 at 21:46

Ivan Melgar's post there wrap's it all up...Ridiculous site !

__________

Lunar 



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Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . .


Posted By: Wrath_of_Ninian
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 05:47

Originally posted by benny bouncer benny bouncer wrote:

erm GENESIS   NUMBER 3......these guys have to listen to them before they place them that high!  

They are rubbish.  Nice to know another prog fan that dislikes them too. 

I was beginning to feel like I was the only one...I notice the prog collaborators on this site have a hefty chunk of Genesis in their current top twenty.



Posted By: Swinton MCR
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 06:31

Err - Where is Greenslade ? and KC No 1.....

I find it hard to serialise a list - better grading.

Genesis/Yes/Floyd/Camel/ELP/IQ/Greenslade are all grade 1.

Pendragon/Pallas/Twelfth Night grade 2 etc.....



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Play me my song, here it comes again


Posted By: Pixel Pirate
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 06:52
Even though I can't stand King Crimson I will still rate them as the best prog band ever. There are such things as objective criteria even in music and to be absolutely objective,KC has pushed the bounderies further back and been on the whole more creative and imaginative than any other prog band so I would definitely cite them as the best prog band ever. Personal opinions and subjective notions don't come into it. If so,then IQ (or possibly Genesis) would be at the top of my list but to suggest that either of them have been more creative,original and groundbreaking than KC is laughable. If asked for my personal favourites,seen from a completely subjective viewpoint,IQ would be at the top of my list. If asked what is the most significant prog band ever from a completely objective,musical historical viewpoint,it would be King Crimson,without a doubt. The fact that I would rather listen to a pig giving birth than any of their albums doesn't enter into it.

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Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.


Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 07:38

1. ProjeKt Four

2. 21st Century Schizoid Band

3. California Guitar Trio

4. Europa String Choir

5. Gitbox

6. ProjeKt Three

7. League Of Crafty Guitarists

8. ProjeKt Two

9. Robert Fripp String Quintet

10. League of Gentlemen

11. Iona

12. ProjeKt One

13. Earthworks

14. Los Gauchos Alemanes

15. The Bears

16. ProjeKt X

17. UK

18. Giles, Giles & Fripp

19. The Hellboys

20. King Crimson

 

 

   



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I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill


Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 07:40

Originally posted by Pixel Pirate Pixel Pirate wrote:

Even though I can't stand King Crimson I will still rate them as the best prog band ever. There are such things as objective criteria even in music and to be absolutely objective,KC has pushed the bounderies further back and been on the whole more creative and imaginative than any other prog band so I would definitely cite them as the best prog band ever. Personal opinions and subjective notions don't come into it. If so,then IQ (or possibly Genesis) would be at the top of my list but to suggest that either of them have been more creative,original and groundbreaking than KC is laughable. If asked for my personal favourites,seen from a completely subjective viewpoint,IQ would be at the top of my list. If asked what is the most significant prog band ever from a completely objective,musical historical viewpoint,it would be King Crimson,without a doubt. The fact that I would rather listen to a pig giving birth than any of their albums doesn't enter into it.

Do you know, I think that is the most wonderful thing you've ever said. 



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I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill


Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 07:50
Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

1. ProjeKt Four

2. 21st Century Schizoid Band

3. California Guitar Trio

4. Europa String Choir

5. Gitbox

6. ProjeKt Three

7. League Of Crafty Guitarists

8. ProjeKt Two

9. Robert Fripp String Quintet

10. League of Gentlemen

11. Iona

12. ProjeKt One

13. Earthworks

14. Los Gauchos Alemanes

15. The Bears

16. ProjeKt X

17. UK

18. Giles, Giles & Fripp

19. The Hellboys

20. King Crimson

 

No BPM & M?????????????????????????????



Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 08:02
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

[QUOTE=sigod]

No BPM & M?????????????????????????????

Nah, they smell funny  



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I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 13:02

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote about Genesis:

Quote They are rubbish.  Nice to know another prog fan that dislikes them too.

I can understand you don't like Genesis, it's a matter of personal taste, I don't like King Crimson very much or Mahavishnu Orchestra for example, but from there to call one of the most influencial bands in Progressive Rock history rubbish, is offensive.

Genesis duiring the Gabriel and/or Hackett era created one of the most unique an imaginative atmospheric sounds, Steve Hackett is probably the most talented guitar player in Prog' and Peter Gabriel is one of the top vocalists, not to mention Tony Banks, who's style is the base for a whole sub genre of Progressive Rock like Neo Prog.

When I give hard opinions about any band (including STYX or Boston ) I try to give a reason why, saying they are rubbish without explaining why, has no senses. This is a discussion forum and in order to have an intelligent discussion we should give reasons.

It's ok if you say you dislike them and you give valid reasons, but I believe they and their fans deserve some respect.

Iván



Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 14:05
You're right of course Ivan, there is a fundamental difference between stating your dislike for a band, and dismissing them as "rubbish"!


Posted By: Pixel Pirate
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 16:24
Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

Originally posted by Pixel Pirate Pixel Pirate wrote:

Even though I can't stand King Crimson I will still rate them as the best prog band ever. There are such things as objective criteria even in music and to be absolutely objective,KC has pushed the bounderies further back and been on the whole more creative and imaginative than any other prog band so I would definitely cite them as the best prog band ever. Personal opinions and subjective notions don't come into it. If so,then IQ (or possibly Genesis) would be at the top of my list but to suggest that either of them have been more creative,original and groundbreaking than KC is laughable. If asked for my personal favourites,seen from a completely subjective viewpoint,IQ would be at the top of my list. If asked what is the most significant prog band ever from a completely objective,musical historical viewpoint,it would be King Crimson,without a doubt. The fact that I would rather listen to a pig giving birth than any of their albums doesn't enter into it.

Do you know, I think that is the most wonderful thing you've ever said. 

Oh,shucks. You're making me blush now! 



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Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.


Posted By: Der Herr Warum
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 17:20
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Electric Light Orchestra???

The Beatles????

Queensryche ABOVE Gong, Hawkwind, BJH, PFM, Amon Duul, Aphrodite's Child...

Toto?

Yngwie Malmsteen?

Hatfield and the North at 147?????

Since when where the Moodies a "psychedelic progressive band"? Kraftwerk Krautrock? Dream Theater neo-prog?

 

That list was put together by retards, surely...

 

I stuck some comments up there - I'll prolly regret them tomorrow, as I'm a significant way down this bottle of Highland Park...

 

I Agree



Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 17:25
The link doesn't work for me .Where did ELP finish? (and if not No 1 ...I will need to have words with whoever compiled this list)


Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 19:31
The answer is quite simple Yes no1 Yes no2 and Yes no3  Gabriel's Genesis second and the magnificent ELP 3rd , Kc 4th ,VDGG a close 5th, do I have to go on.!These are the grand  masters of prog and Renaissance a very,very,close 6th.


Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 19:44

 

 

1. LEONARD NIMOY (Bilbo Baggins)

2. WILLIAM SHATTNER (Lucy in the sky with diamonds)

3. RUSH

Everyone else sucks.

 



Posted By: Arioch
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 21:36

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

The link doesn't work for me .Where did ELP finish? (and if not No 1 ...I will need to have words with whoever compiled this list)

4th....behind King Crimson, Yes and Genesis



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Knight of the Swords
Lord of Entropy
Duke of Chaos


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 23:12

Yesterday I had a discussion about ELO with a guy there and after a hostile greeting he seemed receptive.

Also recieved a message from Drew (The Adm) and seems to be trying to do something good, but I believe too many hands are there and that's why Styx (For example) ended in place 21 even when in the past 5 lists wasn't even mentioned.

It's interesting to see the opinions of some people there even when there is no place like Prog Archives.

Maybe they have a lot of mistakes but at least they are trying to do a progressive list instead of another mainstream music page, I believe it will get better with some time and experience.

But I'm still angry for the lack of Triumvirat, Le Orme, Par Lindh, etc in that list.

Iván

 



Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: December 10 2004 at 23:50
Originally posted by Wrath_of_Ninian Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:

Originally posted by benny bouncer benny bouncer wrote:

erm GENESIS   NUMBER 3......these guys have to listen to them before they place them that high!  

They are rubbish.  Nice to know another prog fan that dislikes them too. 

I was beginning to feel like I was the only one...I notice the prog collaborators on this site have a hefty chunk of Genesis in their current top twenty.

Yes Genesis is quite popular here. I'm not all that fond of Genesis either.. and I really dislike IQ, which usually sound like a watered down version of Genesis. But I do like Peter Gabriel solo.



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THIS IS ELP


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 00:50

Threefates wrote:

Quote and I really dislike IQ, which usually sound like a watered down version of Genesis.

Agree with you, and to be honest most Neo Prog' groups sound like a light version of Genesis to me, maybe except Pavlov's Dog which is unique because of David Surkamp's voice and Pendragon that has something special.

Iván



Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 01:09
Originally posted by ivan_2068 ivan_2068 wrote:

Threefates wrote:

Quote and I really dislike IQ, which usually sound like a watered down version of Genesis.

Agree with you, and to be honest most Neo Prog' groups sound like a light version of Genesis to me, maybe except Pavlov's Dog which is unique because of David Surkamp's voice and Pendragon that has something special.

Iván

HUH???? I thought you like IQ as I do!!



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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>


Posted By: Wrath_of_Ninian
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 04:07
Originally posted by ivan_2068 ivan_2068 wrote:

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote about Genesis:

Quote They are rubbish.  Nice to know another prog fan that dislikes them too.

I can understand you don't like Genesis, it's a matter of personal taste, I don't like King Crimson very much or Mahavishnu Orchestra for example, but from there to call one of the most influencial bands in Progressive Rock history rubbish, is offensive.

Genesis duiring the Gabriel and/or Hackett era created one of the most unique an imaginative atmospheric sounds, Steve Hackett is probably the most talented guitar player in Prog' and Peter Gabriel is one of the top vocalists, not to mention Tony Banks, who's style is the base for a whole sub genre of Progressive Rock like Neo Prog.

When I give hard opinions about any band (including STYX or Boston ) I try to give a reason why, saying they are rubbish without explaining why, has no senses. This is a discussion forum and in order to have an intelligent discussion we should give reasons.

It's ok if you say you dislike them and you give valid reasons, but I believe they and their fans deserve some respect.

Iván

I did not mean to 'offend', and if you truly are upset, I apologise.  Being a prog fan, I thought you might be used to such comments, especially in the public arena, but clearly my devastating repartee ("they're rubbish") cut through the tendons and stuck spikes in your nerves. 

If you are genuinely seeking a debate about why I feel this way about Genesis, I'm afraid this response will be a disappointment, as I have no real intention of decrying a band I rarely listen to these days (although Turn It On Again was on in IKEA the other day).

To respond to your points individually however, firstly I would agree that they are one of the most influential bands in prog, though why this means we should all love them is beyond me.  In many ways they showed how prog bands can evolve into pop bands, and this is an influence I could have done without.  I notice you define clearly the 'good' era from the 'bad' era - but it all comes under the 'Genesis' banner as far as I concerned (you'll notice I didn't make this distinction).  Secondly, to simply praise the guitarist, singer and keyboard player is not really saying why they they command respect.  I could name many guitarists who I think are more effective than Steve Hackett, but didn't think it would convey what I was trying to get across in my simplistic statement. 

Finally, I think Genesis are 'rubbish' because I have not made it to the end of one of their albums (both eras) without at least one of the following occuring:

1. Falling asleep

2. Opening a Reader's Digest magazine

3. Turning On TV's 'Countdown' (Again...)

4. Getting really annoyed that all these people can produce (with all their talent and money) is mediocre, overlong slabs of complex but ultimately bland rock fodder, which cannot stimulate the slightest inkling of emotion in my being.  The reason this is the case is because I am ME - and NOT because all Genesis fans are wrong.

If you want to take this further, perhaps on another thread, I could try and borrow back the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, and we can debate its merits in a civilised manner, without recourse to the word 'rubbish'.  In the meantime, I suggest you take my original post in the context in which it was written - it was a warm and no-harm-intended reaction to an earlier post denouncing the Top 100 chart, and in particular Genesis' positioning at No.3 (or whatever it was).  Similar, if less explicit comments were directed at other bands, without (may I add) the type of reaction I got from yourself. 

I hope this exchange has not tarnished your impression of me Ivan, as I try to be as honest and objective as I can.  I understand the point you are trying to make, and had I given such a response on a Genesis thread, then you would have a case.  In this instance however, you'll notice that virtually everyone else ignored the comment and got on with it. 

Best wishes

 



Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 12:21

Wrath_of_Ninian: I never disputed your right to dislike Genesis, I only disagree with the use of the word rubbish:

Rubbish: 1 : useless waste or rejected matter : http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=trash - TRASH

You don't need a reason to say you don't like Genesis, it's enough to say it's not suitable for your taste, but if you say it's rubbish, you're saying most of us in this place listen trash and this implies we have a terrible taste.

I've read many posts of members saying they don't like Genesis, some give reasons and some don't, but none of them insults the band and our personal taste. There was a post about civilized discussions, I'm not sure if it's there still, but would be a good idea for everybody to read it.

Yes I'm used to even worst comments against not only Genesis but against most prog bands, but those insults come usually from ignorants POP lovers who don't know a word about progressive rock, but in this place we're all Progheads and a bit of courtesy among each other is not bad.

By theway, I took no offense, but I saw flamming discussions start for less than this, and that's what I'm trying to avoid

Iván



Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 18:29
Originally posted by Arioch Arioch wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

The link doesn't work for me .Where did ELP finish? (and if not No 1 ...I will need to have words with whoever compiled this list)

4th....behind King Crimson, Yes and Genesis

Thanks...... I can live with that



Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: December 11 2004 at 23:20

Renaissance only at 65?? That's a shame!

So, the stoopid Tool (20) is quite better than Renaissance, Mike Oldfield, IQ, Flower Kings and Echolyn?? Come on!

Do not take this list too seriously!!

I like Asia, but I think 21st is a bit too high...



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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 00:52

Just read your post again Wrath of Ninian and you said:

Quote Similar, if less explicit comments were directed at other bands, without (may I add) the type of reaction I got from yourself. 

I can only answerfor myself, so I copied my post and as you can see the only hard term I use is cheap POP when talking about TOTO, even when it's hard I don't say it's rubbish or trash, only qualify it as POP and according to my personal opinion most pop is cheap.

Iván wrote:

Quote Dream Theater Neo Prog? (Look at the right side)

STYX before Anglagard, Rick Wakeman, PFM. The Strawbs, etc?

Genesis N° 3??? Should be N°1 at least the Gabriel era.

ASIA N° 21????? Should be at leat 210

TOTO Prog? I would say cheap POP instead.

California Guitar Trio is an excelent band but not remotely prog.

ELO N°12? Not really prog and one of the top in the list.

Happy The Man Psychedelic??? (Again at the right)

All I do is to write what I believe are mistakes, bands that are not Psychedelic even remotely others which are not prog, etc, but there's not a single insult.

Now don't worry, I'm an old stubborn fart when talking about Genesis.

Iván



Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 00:56

Originally posted by greenback greenback wrote:

So, the stoopid Tool (20) is quite better than Renaissance, Mike Oldfield, IQ, Flower Kings and Echolyn?? Come on!

Yep, without question.

Although this list does indeed suck.



Posted By: Wrath_of_Ninian
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 13:08

Ivan, I think you are taking this a little too far now, but in the spirit of politeness, I'll respond.  My comments are in bold.

First of all you objected:

"Rubbish: 1 : useless waste or rejected matter : http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=trash - TRASH

You don't need a reason to say you don't like Genesis, it's enough to say it's not suitable for your taste, but if you say it's rubbish, you're saying most of us in this place listen trash and this implies we have a terrible taste."

Quoting from your original complaint:

"saying they are rubbish without explaining why, has no senses. This is a discussion forum and in order to have an intelligent discussion we should give reasons.

It's ok if you say you dislike them and you give valid reasons."

Surely this is a contradiction? Do I need a reason or not? When you've decided, let me know.  As I said earlier, I'd be happy to provide some.

Secondly, dont quote dictionary definitions at me - they dont mean anything.  Language and its meaning are constantly evolving, and besides its patronising and inflammatory  

Finally, you wrote:

"All I do is to write what I believe are mistakes, bands that are not Psychedelic even remotely others which are not prog, etc, but there's not a single insult.

Now don't worry, I'm an old stubborn fart when talking about Genesis."

Clearly you are Genesis fan who has (contrary to all your previous correspondence) taken offence to me casually labelling them 'rubbish'.  I have apologised for the remark, I genuinely didn't think anyone would be in the slightest bit bothered (or interested) by it, and didn't even pause when writing it, but you have proved me wrong.  I suggest you track back through every other thread in search of similar confrontational prose, and bring other cuplrits to task. 

I must say, as a new member to this site, I have already had some intelligent exchanges, some hilarious comments made, and more importanly, I have found out about strands of prog that I knew nothing about.  Opinions are important, but so is enjoyment and interaction.  If someone wrote that Robert Wyatt was 'rubbish', I would laugh, and either ignore it or counter with something equally mindless.  Your enthusiastic rebuttal of what was a harmless remark, has reminded me that there some people out there who will always take things too far.  There was no malice intended against Genesis fans, or the band themselves - I know that my record collection will no doubt mirror the vast majority of Genesis fans' prog collections anyway - with the exception of Genesis of course.

I think you have already taken this too far, and I seek closure on the matter forthwith.  Besides, its boring for others who are genuinely interested in this thread.

Best wishes



Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 19:15

LMAO, I don't take it too far, I said I'm an old stubborn Genesis fan.

My whole point is that I've been here for a bit more time than you and I've seen terrible quarrels for less than this.

Quote Secondly, dont quote dictionary definitions at me - they dont mean anything.  Language and its meaning are constantly evolving, and besides its patronising and inflammatory  

I don't see the harm in quoting a dictionary, specially when English is not my first language (As I said it 20 times or more) and I use the very often.

I don't know if it's your case but sometimes people uses words without worrying for the real meaning of the words, from wher I come from if somebody calls trash what another one loves it can be taken as an insult.

Just to end, I believe insulting other persons taste is terrible but if it's done with no valid reason it's even worst.

There's no need to insult what others love, that's my whole point.

Let's there be peace.

Iván



Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 19:39

Ivan you need to be more diplomatic like me!Wink

LOL



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Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 19:58


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http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi">


Posted By: madgo2
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 20:01
Wrath of a Ninny - leave Ivan alone   By the way can you explain the "spirit of politeness"  Ninny should be the ambassadour of politeness.  He is the "inflamed" man with far too much time on his hands...LOL - thanx for the humor cause you must be kidding...

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He whom life can no longer surprise


Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 20:01

Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

Yeah, diplomatic like I said!LOL



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Posted By: Spanky
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 21:09
Man, I'm really likeing this list.  PRimus made it on there!  Porcupine Tree and Aryeon were both in the top 35.  King Crimons placed FIRST!!!  And Happy the Man was there too!


Posted By: Prog_Bassist
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 21:30
Originally posted by gdub411 gdub411 wrote:

Toto, Primus, Blood Sweat and Tears and Portis Head are prog?



I would say Primus is.

Toto and more pop than anything, but I guess you could call them pop-prog, cuz they're alot like asia. They have SOME prog sensibilities to em.

Portis Head would likely be art rock. but I hate them.

Blood Sweat and tears are mabye a little bit prog. but not enough to be classified.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuxaD8NzaY" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuxaD8NzaY


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 22:16

Quote Toto and more pop than anything, but I guess you could call them pop-prog, cuz they're alot like asia. They have SOME prog sensibilities to em.

Well Prog_Bassist, I see TOTO more like POP with some Jazzy moments, they are good in what they do but I don'tbelieve it's Prog'.

As an anecdote, I once had to go to Tacna (A small city in the frontier with Chile), being that the trip was planned for 2 days and it was by plane, I didn't take any music with me.

But there the company had some problems and I had to stay 2 weeks, so I rented a car that had cassette player (so I could cross the frontier to Arica - Chile the weekend and buy a cheap TV set), but Tacna is the f*cking a$$ of the world and coudn't get a decent cassete for the car, everything was salsa, Enrique Iglesias and Backstreet Boys and I hate all that music, but could buy a pirate compilation of TOTO in the market and hoped to buy anything better in Chile.

So I stayed one week with the damn TOTO cassette, in those days I learned to hate that band, when I crosse to Chile the first weekend, the situation wasn't much better and I bought In the Hot Seat, which I never heard before and learned to hate for another week.

That's one of the reasons why I don't like TOTO

Iván



Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: December 12 2004 at 23:34
Originally posted by ivan_2068 ivan_2068 wrote:

So I stayed one week with the damn TOTO cassette, in those days I learned to hate that band, when I crosse to Chile the first weekend, the situation wasn't much better and I bought In the Hot Seat, which I never heard before and learned to hate for another week.

That's one of the reasons why I don't like TOTO

Iván

Did you know that the guitarist from Toto played guitar on "In the Hot Seat"??



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THIS IS ELP


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 13 2004 at 00:45

Quote Did you know that the guitarist from Toto played guitar on "In the Hot Seat"??

Didn't had the slightest idea Threefates, maybe he's the reason why the two albums were the only availlable in the zone.

Iván



Posted By: sbrushfan
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 13:43
HOT BLOODY DAMN! Rush placed #6!  WOOHOO!

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Some world views are spacious, and some are merely spaced...


Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 13:56

Mmm...King Crimson on number two?...mmm Me like it!

But Andromeda obove Pain of Salvation? mmm I dont know about that...

Hey, but Nexus is oin number 151...I know it may not seem much, but to have an argentinian prog band in number 151 is pretty much for me...jejeje



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"You want me to play what, Robert?"


Posted By: sbrushfan
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 14:02
Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Mmm...King Crimson on number two?...mmm. Me like it!

But Andromeda above Pain of Salvation? mmm; I dont know about that...

Hey, but Nexus is on number 151...I know it may not seem much, but to have an Argentinian prog band in number 151 is pretty much for me...jejeje

Good for you! 



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Some world views are spacious, and some are merely spaced...


Posted By: Gentle Tull
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 14:08

Yes, I'be seen that link before.

I'm dissapointed about how low Gentle Giant is, they were one of the most inventive and great prog bands and deffinitly deserve to be in the top five or ten.



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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 14:11

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_albumsprog.html - http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_albumsprog.html

hey check this out!!!

In the court is king!!! Int he court is king!!!



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"You want me to play what, Robert?"


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 14:13
I can think of at least 5 Rush albums that are better than 2112.

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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: goochnhell
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 14:13
Two incarnations of zappa in the top twenty. I have always thought that all zappas band were just new incarnations of the mothers, but thats just me.

And where in the h***, is Salem Hill and Mostly Autumn.




Posted By: sbrushfan
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 14:23

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I can think of at least 5 Rush albums that are better than 2112.

I'm thinking "MOVING PICTURES", "A FAREWELL TO KINGS", "HEMISPHERES", "POWER WINDOWS" and "VAPOR TRAILS" among them.



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Some world views are spacious, and some are merely spaced...


Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 14:32
VDGG... 14... thats a good one...

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Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 14:53

I don't like that list.

22. CARAVAN ??????

29. CAMEL ????????????

35. RENAISSANCE ????

71. FOCUS ???

78. HATFIELD & THE NORTH ?????

88. TNE NICE ????????

90. UK ???

92. ATOMIC ROOSTER ????

96. COMUS ??????

101. COLOSSEUM ???

161. CURVED AIR ???????????????????????????????????????

108. EGG ???????????????????????

106. BRAND X ?????????????

137. GRYPHON ???????????????????

And then why QUATERMASS 200 ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Sorry but i don't agree with you.

And then you forgot too many bands really prog like SPRING, TRACE, EKSEPTION, ARGENT, KEVIN AYERS, GREENSLADE, AFFINITY, ARCADIUM, ARZACHEL, AUDIENCE, BRAINTICKET, CIRKUS, CIRCUS, CZAR, CRESSIDA, DELIVERY, FANTASY, FRUUPP, GRACIOUS, GRAVY TRAIN, HIGH TIDE, INDIAN SUMMER, BRAM STOKER, ITHACA, JADE WARRIOR, KHAN, KINGDOME COME, MARSUPILAMI, MORGAN, RAW MATERIAL, THE RUNNING MAN, SAMURAI, STEEL MILL, STILL LIFE, T2, TONTON MACOUTE, TRACTOR, TUDOR LODGE, ZAO, ZIOR, GERARD, ARS NOVA, ETC......................................................... ............................................................ .....



Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 15:04

WHAT ABOUT ITALIAN BANDS LIKE :

  • ACQUA FRAGILE
  • ALPHATAURUS
  • ARTI E MESTIERI
  • BALLETTO DI BRONZO
  • TRIP
  • LATTE E MIELE
  • GIGANTI
  • JUMBO
  • OSANNA
  • QUELLA VECCHIA LOCANDA
  • REALE ACCADEMIA DI MUSICA
  • IL ROVESCIO DELLA MEDAGLIA
  • PERIGEO
  • BIGLIETTO PER L'INFERNO
  • DEDALUS
  • CAPSICUM RED
  • IL VOLO
  • SENSATION'S FIX
  • SEMIRAMIS
  • SAINT JUST
  • RUSTICHELLI & BORDINI
  • RACCOMANDATA RICEVUTA RITORNO
  • PIERROT LUNAIRE
  • OSAGE TRIBE
  • CERVELLO
  • CIRCUS 2000
  • DE DE LIND
  • DELIRIUM
  • GARYBALDI
  • GLEEMEN
  • METAMORFOSI
  • MAXOPHONE
  • MURPLE
  • NEW TROLLS
  • NUOVA IDEA
  • OPUS AVANTRA
  • FRANCO BATTIATO
  • ALLUMINOGENI
  • CALIFFI
  • CAPITOLO 6
  • CORTE DEI MIRACOLI
  • PICCHIO DAL POZZO
  • PROCESSION
  • EDGAR ALLAN POE
  • IBIS
  • MUSEO ROSENBACH
  • SAMADHI
  • L'UOVO DI COLOMBO
  • APOTEOSI
  • CAMPO DI MARTE
  • CELESTE
  • CHERRY FIVE
  • COCAI
  • IL PUNTO
  • PANNA FREDDA
  • MO.DO
  • PHOLAS DACTYLUS
  • CITTA' FRONTALE
  • PING PONG
  • PARADISO A BASSO PREZZO

ETC...............................



Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 15:11
Originally posted by ANDREW ANDREW wrote:

 

Sorry but i don't agree with you.

.....

Who don't you agree with?



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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: horza
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 15:13
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by ANDREW ANDREW wrote:


 


Sorry but i don't agree with you.


.....



Who don't you agree with?




You

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Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.


Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 15:28
We all must realize that taste, likes and dislikes are all subjective, no matter what type of music we are speaking of. Don't complain or get offended if you're favorite band is too low or not even on the list, although Snow Dog may be angry since BACAS MUCHAS CRAPIOLAS is not represented on the list....
Anywho, just listen to what you like, I myself don't really agree with the list, but I'm not getting worked up about it. Just my thoughts.


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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."

-Merleau-Ponty


Posted By: Rosescar
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 15:33
Yngwie Malmsteen prog?

And Zappa's there twice.


Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 15:36
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by ANDREW ANDREW wrote:

 

Sorry but i don't agree with you.

.....

Who don't you agree with?



Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 15:42

Originally posted by meurglysIII meurglysIII wrote:

We all must realize that taste, likes and dislikes are all subjective, no matter what type of music we are speaking of. Don't complain or get offended if you're favorite band is too low or not even on the list, although Snow Dog may be angry since BACAS MUCHAS CRAPIOLAS is not represented on the list....
Anywho, just listen to what you like, I myself don't really agree with the list, but I'm not getting worked up about it. Just my thoughts.

I'm not absolutely offended !

I think that the bands that i've listed should be in the list, but not because they are my favorite, because they are GREAT PROGRESSIVE ROCK BANDS.



Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 15:48
Originally posted by ANDREW ANDREW wrote:

Originally posted by meurglysIII meurglysIII wrote:

We all must realize that taste, likes and dislikes are all subjective, no matter what type of music we are speaking of. Don't complain or get offended if you're favorite band is too low or not even on the list, although Snow Dog may be angry since BACAS MUCHAS CRAPIOLAS is not represented on the list....
Anywho, just listen to what you like, I myself don't really agree with the list, but I'm not getting worked up about it. Just my thoughts.

I'm not absolutely offended !

I think that the bands that i've listed should be in the list, but not because they are my favorite, because they are GREAT PROGRESSIVE ROCK BANDS.



I wasn't directly referring to your comments, although they did sound a bit negative to me. I was replying to my thoughts about that list. I think though that some of the bands you listed or referred to are unkown outside of your country (or at least Europe) or they only have one album, like in the case of Khan, who I really like by the way, which makes them "less important" to some people.


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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."

-Merleau-Ponty


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 16:01
Originally posted by ANDREW ANDREW wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by ANDREW ANDREW wrote:

 

Sorry but i don't agree with you.

.....

Who don't you agree with?

I don't really want to be drawn into this, but................what?



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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: progaeopteryx
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 21:00
If you check the site more closely, it has the following statement:

"Disclaimer: There is nothing 'Official' about these lists. They are compiled by the 'editor' using the
stated criteria, and revised considering the competent suggestions of visitors to this website only."

The singular use of the term "editor" implies to me that this is just one person's opinion, so that should clearly be taken into consideration when determing the validity of the data. Unfortunately the way the site is designed, it gives the impression that this is something that was researched by multiple people, when it appears it really hasn't, although it looks like the editor may be open to suggestions as the list appears to be changing.

When you go to Prog Archives, for example, it is clear that a lot of effort has been put into the top 100 list here by a real community made up of fans and experts of the genre.

It's all about determing what a reputable source is.




Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 21:27
DDD=

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http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm


Posted By: transend
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 22:38

Err..LANDSEND?



Posted By: walrus333
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 23:16
heh that list is good for a laugh at least

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If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!


Posted By: decypher
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 23:49
I always knew that Yngwie "the Rhapsody Guardian X" Malmsteen was so much better and progressive than WatchTower or Gordian Knot....

What a crap list.


Posted By: AngleofRepose
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 23:52
I have a problem with Genesis not being number two after Floyd.



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