Favorite "unknown" symphonic bands
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Topic: Favorite "unknown" symphonic bands
Posted By: el böthy
Subject: Favorite "unknown" symphonic bands
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 17:08
Ok, we always talk about Yes, Genesis, ELP (and how can we help it...) but this time let´s talk about thouse other symphonic bands, the "unknown" ones... Put your 5 favorite, talk a bit about them or what ever...but remember, no Yes, no Genesis, no Focus, no ELP, no Camel, no Anglagard...I guess the Flower Kings and Spocks Beard are allowed..., but seriously respect this, otherwise its meaningless...
I must say I dont know that many "unknown" bands...but I can easily name 5
1. MIA, an excellent argentinian band from the ´70. They only did three studio albums (two of which are instrumental) and a live album. 2. Wobbler, one of the sensations of last year. I know they are maybe not that progressive in nature...but they are really good! 3. Crucis, another argentinian band, the only who really made it in this country when it comes to commercial succes. Only two studio albums... 4. Arachnoïd...I must say that I only know some songs...not the whole discography (which is only one album by the way) but...they really took me by surprise, great band! 5. Little Atlas, exacly the same as with Arachnoïd...but again I liked what I heard!!!
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Replies:
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 17:40
OK, here we go, fellow progheads:
OMEGA - Live at the Kisstadion — This acclaimed legendary Hungarian prog rock band made some beautiful albums in the Seventies but ‘live’ they were at their best. This originally 2-LP from ’79 (on the 1-CD release the song “Rush Hour” has been deleted) showcases an inspired and powerful performance (more than 50.000 spectators!) from OMEGA, playing most of finest material like “Gammapolis” (great howling guitar licks), “Help To Find Me” (strong Minimoog solo with sensational use of the pitch bend button), “Time Robber”, “High On The Starway” (rock and roll with heavy duo guitar work) and “Metamorphosis II + II. The massive crowd reacts very enthusiastic to the warm, melodic and varied ‘heavy progressive rock’ featuring tasteful keyboards, fiery and sensitive electric guitar and inspired Hungarian/English vocals. I’m pleased with the typical melancholic mood from Eastern Europe in some songs (like “Russian Winter”), very original that makes OMEGA to a band worth to discover for the younger ‘prog heads’.
PLJ BAND - Armageddon — The album “Armageddon” (1982) by the formation PLJ BAND is often considered as one of the most compelling progressive rock albums ever made. The sound is very unique: a captivating progressive blend of acoustic – and electric folk and (space) rock with a strong psychedelic undertone. The tension between the acoustic – and classical guitars (twanging and rhythm) and the soaring and spacey keyboards on one hand and the fiery and howling, distorted electric guitarplay on the other hand creates a lot of tension and compelling climates, emphasized by the hypnotizing vocals. The stunning surrealistic cover art is in the vein of Salvador Dali. Perhaps his mind reigns over this album? If you want a psychedelic experience without drugs, this one is yours!
SOLARIS - Solaris 1990 — Many years ago I ordered the 2-LP “1990” in the USA. But they send me the CD-version on which the ‘side-long-track’ “Los Angeles 2026” had been deleted! What a disappointement but fortunately a few years ago I managed to purchase the reissue 2-CD “1990” , including some fine bonustracks and... the lost track “Los Angeles 2026”. It contains dynamic and propulsive with spectacular synth runs, fiery electric guitar and beautiful flute-play. Remarkable is the spacy keyboard sound in some songs and the obvious classical influences. The tracks from the mid-period (1986) sound rather accessible: a catchy and often funny combination of classic, pop and rock. But the most impressive composition is their ‘magnus opus’ Los Angeles 2026 (almost 24 minutes long). It opens with alarm sirens and SF sounds to evoke a menacing atmosphere of a future Los Angeles. Then it starts to swing with propulsive guitarplay, powerful drums and some funky bass-play, followed by lots of changing climates and short pieces with modern keyboards. Suddenly a mid-long solo piece from the piano begins, from tender to sparkling until the captivating interplay from electric guitar, flute and keyboards takes it over, enjoy the spectacular synthesizer flights! A howling electric guitar and bluesy organ is next and then the ‘essential Solaris’ appears again with splendid interplay between the fiery electric guitar, swirling flute and spectacular keyboards (Manfred Mann meets Jethro Tull and Focus). Slowly the same climate as during the intro returns, topped by a fat synthesizer sound. I hope that once the video Progfest 1995 Day One will be relased on DVD, it contains almost 30 minutes of Solaris playing live, EXCELLENT, what a STUNNING PROGROCK BAND!!
TRIANA - Triana (El Patio) — TRIANA is the most legendary and pivotal progressive rock band in Spain. Their stunning debut-album “El Patio” (1975) was a seminal blend of flamenco and prog rock and paved the way to flamenco-inspired prog rock in Spain, culminating in bands like AZAHAR, CAI, ALAMEDA, QUALDAQUIVIR, MEZQUITA and MEDINA AZAHARA. The opener on “El Patio” is “Abre La Puerta” (almost 10 minutes), it starts with choir-Mellotron, piano and flamenco guitar (tremolo-technique). Then the typical sensitive and skill full flamenco guitar blends with piano and soft synthesizer chords. A fluent and tight rhythm-section carries the music to a powerful acceleration with the typical flamenco vocals, expressive and a bit wailing. The rest of this song contains lots of shifting moods that range from mellow with flamenco guitar and choir-Mellotron to propulsive with powerful drums and howling electric guitar, very moving. Most of the other six compositions are in the vein of “Abre La Puerta”: beautiful shifting climates with typical flamenco elements like palmas (handclapping), rasgueado (quick downward strikes across all strings) and picados (quick runs on the guitar with two fingers), along with tasteful keyboards (organ, synthesizers, Mellotron and piano) and fine electric guitar play. The final two tracks are splendid compositions: beautiful interplay between the flamenco – and electric guitar and a bombastic finale with rasgueado, organ and electric guitar in “En El Lago” and powerful drums and a howling and biting electric guitar in “Recuerdos De Una Noche”. If you are up to the typical flamenco mood or you want to discover this perfect marriage of folk and sympho, try this album. For me it’s one of the few CD’s that can compete with the Seventies prog rock from YES, ELP, KING CRIMSON and GENESIS!
MUSEO ROSENBACH - Zarathustra — In the early Nineties I started to search for the Italian prog rock from the Seventies. The mail-order catalogues from the prog rock labels Laser’s Edge en Syn-Phonic became my most important sources, I still enjoy the warm and enthusiastic descriptions from Ken Golden and Greg Walker about bands like Il BALLETTO DI BRONZO, CHERRY FIVE, I DIK DIK and EDGAR ALLEN POE. One often acclaimed group was MUESO ROSENBACH with their LP “Zarathustra” (about NIETZSCHE’S superman) from 1973. This album had such euphoric reviews that I decided to order it. Well, very soon I was mesmerized by the splendid title track, a 20 minute killer composition with echoes from GENESIS and KING CRIMSON. The foundation of this wonderful and moving song is a beautiful theme (like “Firth Of Fifth” from GENESIS) that returns in different climates (from dreamy to heavy and bombastic) and with different colouring of the instruments. The interplay between the electric guitar, keyboards (Hammond organ, synthesizer and piano), rhythm- section (propulsive and perfectly timed drumming) and strong and expressive Italian vocals is very captivating. It all creates a constant tension, topped by majestic eruptions of the Mellotron. These moments gives the title track the same compelling impact as it does on the early albums from KING CRIMSON, goose bumps all over my body! The other three (shorter) tracks sound flowing and powerful with a lot of Hammond organ and guitar play with echoes from Steve HACKETT. For me this CD is the absolute highlight of the lush and varied Italian prog rock scene in the Seventies. A MUST!
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 17:43
Spektakel Wobbler Amagrama Moon Safari Anglagard
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 17:47
There are lots i think... Solaris came immediately to my mind!
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman
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Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 17:47
Yes.
------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t.
-Stone Beard
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 17:49
Discipline
England
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 17:57
It seems as if the bands I thought were unknown, are pretty well known on this site. There is one that I don't see in discussions. My vote is for Quatermass, although they may not fit as symphonic.
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 17:59
I've heard two albums by Salems Hill, and their pretty good. IMO the last album by Saens, Prophet In A Statistical World, was symphonic and absolutely stunning.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Posted By: anael
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 18:01
Museo Rosenbach an unknown band?
mines could be:
Schicke, Führs and Fröhling
Sithonia
Welcome
Wallenstein
Potemkine
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Posted By: rushaholic
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 18:32
Schicke, Führs and Fröhling Kaipa Landberk White Willow Wobbler
Wow, alot of Scandanavian music in there.
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 19:22
IZZ
Sorry, haven't heard enough "unknown" bands to list more.
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Posted By: honganji
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 19:32
Fairy
Projeto Caleidoscopio
HPC
Romanza Bekkan
Rosalia
Probably they are unknown to PA users. But I like them.
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Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: May 31 2006 at 19:47
White Willow Grobschnitt Morte Macabre Par Lindh project Pig Farm on the Moon
I don't concider Anglagard, Wobbler or Museo Rosenbach to be "unknown". They are all critcally acclaimed to be one of the best bands of their respective years.
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Posted By: bamba
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 00:25
FORMULA 3 ,FLÜGTH, CORTE DEI MIRACOLI, L'UOVO DI COLOMBO & CONSORZIO ACQUA POTABILE
------------- Learning Flute [Amigo de Manticore y Memowakeman] (primo)[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2187/2437702285_fbb450500d_o.jpg
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Posted By: DrGoon
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 00:37
Is Grobschnitt that unknown? Everybody in the world should own Solar Music Live and Rockpommel's Land. The latter is one of the finest things Conny Plank ever recorded - its simply one of the most amazing production jobs in rock music. That's to take nothing away from the performance - its a wonderful symphonic prog album - but get the vinyl and a top flight record deck and you'll hear the most dramatic and precise soundstage and placement. Sadly none of the CD releases do the recording justice.
I guess if Grobschnitt counts, so do Novalis and Popul Vuh. Although they weren't primarily a symphonic band, I have to throw Eloy's Dawn in as well.
And finally, another time, another place: La Maschera Di Cera.
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Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 00:50
I only named Grobschnitt because its under the symph prog genre.
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Posted By: dima_olkov
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 02:08
1) Crucis, Argentina... "Los Delirios..." album is SUPERB!!!!!
2) Casa Das Maquinas
3) Clearlight
4) Gracious
------------- PF, Genesis, KC, Yes, VdGG, GG, Camel, Jethro Tull
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Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 02:10
Grobbschnitt, German Symphonic Prog
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Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 03:01
BePinkTheater wrote:
Yes. |
I think I've heard of them. Any recommendations of where to start? Which "known" symphonic bands are they comparable to?
------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa
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Posted By: DrGoon
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 03:32
video vertigo wrote:
BePinkTheater wrote:
Yes. |
I think I've heard of them. Any recommendations of where to start? Which "known" symphonic bands are they comparable to? |
ELP.
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24010
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 04:47
Greenslade
Gryphon (no idea why they are filed under "Prog Folk"; they clearly
belong into "Symphonic". the use of unusual instruments like krumhorn
or bassoon does not make a band "folky")
Hoelderlin (filed under "Prog Folk", but they belong into "Symphonic" too. only their first album has a folky attitude)
Khan
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 05:02
Watch Hoelderlin in the docu on The Best Of Krautrock Vol. 1 DVD, Baldjean !
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Posted By: Norm Cash
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 09:26
Not quite sure what the criteria should be for "unknown", but some of my favourites among the - shall we say - "lesser-known" bands are:
Druid
Flamborough Head
Rain
Fruupp
XII Alfonso
Mind Sky
Trion
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"We did it....you and me! Put him right under the table!"
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Posted By: Dantallion
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 10:21
I'll have to go with Wobbler.
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 12:29
Maneige!!! "Les Porches" one the best symphonic albums of the 70's!
------------- carefulwiththataxe
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 12:33
Kotebel
Aside Beside
4/3 De Trio
Contrappunto Project
Halloween
Ivory
Visible Wind
Il Trono Dei Ricordi
Nodo Gordiano
Zaal
and many others....
------------- carefulwiththataxe
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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 12:35
eugene wrote:
Maneige!!! "Les Porches" one the best symphonic albums of the 70's! |
...and he took my words right from my mouth
also:
DISCIPLINE
PULSAR
FRUUPP
TAI PHONG
THE WATCH
LOCANDA DELLE FATE
early KAIPA
GNIDROLOG
SINKADUS
IL TRONO DEL RICORDI
CLEARLIGHT
...
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Posted By: Orez17
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 16:06
After a quick search in my playlist...
White Willow Ahvak Wobbler Mindgames Hot Fur Far Corner Kaipa
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 16:24
1. Cressida.
Their flawless, mild and pleasant second and last album 'Asylum' sold
only 800 ex. when it was released in '71. It makes me sad thinking
about it. Please get this forgotten classic.
2. Schicke Führs & Fröhling.
Listen to these germans and out where Anglagard got their sound from.
3. Shylock
Not many people know this instrumental, spacey, symphonic french
band. The title track 'Il de fievres' is one of my favorite
instrumentals.
If Gnidrolog wasn't placed in art rock, I'd add them too. And then there's all the countless lesser known italianprog bands.
------------- Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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Posted By: walrus333
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 16:31
Yezda Urfa - American symphonic prog influenced by Gentle Giant and Yes but with a unique sound. Great stuff
------------- If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!
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Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 20:29
Orez17 wrote:
Ahvak
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Ahvak is RIO/Avant-prog
Norm Cash wrote:
Rain
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Good band
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 20:39
I would said Maneige were more fusion... well the album I've heard anyhow.
I'll add:
Par Lindh Project White Willow (in parts)
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Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 20:44
I'll add the Enid and Sky, many I know have already been mentioned.
------------- "Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 01:08
IZZ
Cryptic Vision
Echolyn Helmet of Gnats Proto-Kaw
Frogge Cafe Nima and Merge
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 01:31
Just curious, is the sample of Proto-Kaw here on PA representative?
It's not as rawky-awful as Kansas, but it's really more jammy than
Symphonic.
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Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 01:42
This Heat, The camberwell now, Animal Collective, CONGRESO, News from Babel, The underground Railroad, Halloween, Pentwater (YES wannabes; still, more original than those horrible Starcastle), errr... so many... Disco Inferno, Miriodor...
------------- ¡Beware of the Bee!
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Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 01:43
cuncuna wrote:
This Heat, The camberwell now, Animal Collective,
CONGRESO, News from Babel, The underground Railroad, Halloween,
Pentwater (YES wannabes; still, more original than those horrible
Starcastle), errr... so many... Disco Inferno, Miriodor... |
This Heat and Camberwell Now, symphonic, I don't think so....
------------- "Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 01:47
see my next note.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 01:48
Teaflax wrote:
Just curious, is the sample of Proto-Kaw here on PA representative? It's not as rawky-awful as Kansas, but it's really more jammy than Symphonic.
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^ They vary from song to song but the main theme is Symphonic. I think no matter what style he goes into Kerry Livgren always comes back to symph. He writes songs mainly with piano so that pretty much dictates the style a lot of times. The guitar written songs like Carry On My Wayward Son from Kansas or from Proto-Kaw Melicus Galdiator tend to be on a heavier edge and simpler in nature. The jammy parts are really when they play live and it is that which really separates P-K from Kansas. They play Belexis and Death of Mother Nature Suite in their set but they are a lot different than the way Kansas would have played them. They extend almost every song they play. The bass player and keyboard player are incredible live. Their main influences are Jaco Pastorius and Brian Auger so it isn't your usual prog sounds that come from them. VDGG and Frank Zappa are also big influences on the rest of the group. They are also most definitely an American band as was Kansas so expect some of that in the music too.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 01:56
- Petrus Castrus (Portugal)
- Frágil (Perú)
- Teru's Symphonia (Japan)
- Sagrado Coraçáo da Terra (Brazil)
- Stern Combo Meissen (East Germany)
- Tabula Rasa (Finland)
- Calliope (Italy)
- Kyrie Eleison (Austria)
Iván
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 01:57
You know, for all the words there, it still doesn't answer my question.
I found the track up here unremarkable - not bad, but nothing worth
writing home about.
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 02:05
^I said they vary from song to song in my first sentence whats not to understand? So if I have to spell it out that song represents that song. It is not representative of every song on the cd or in the three cd's they have produced. They run a gambit of AOR rock to Symph to Zappa. They are an American band and hence they like the blues feel also so if that is what you meant by rawkie in your Kansas comment then yes they do that too. Don't expect straight European Symphonic prog from them.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 02:56
Ah, okay. And American does not at all have to equal Blues/Rock, but that's a debate for another day.
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 06:43
Geck0 wrote:
I would said Maneige were more fusion... well the album I've heard anyhow.
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That's what I was told as well, moreover band is listed here under fusion label. But the only album I heard so far "Les Porches" is purely symphonic in nature with very few jazzy touches.
Par Lindh - first and third albums I have are great - getting Mundus Incompertus soon....
White Willow - have only Ignus Fatuus and Storm Season so far - both are very good.
------------- carefulwiththataxe
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 08:25
Proto Kaw is an amazing band. I´m listening to the song "Leaven" at the moment, very nice..
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Posted By: rockandrail
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 08:52
My favourite unknown prog band is so unknown that I don't even know its name
------------- Pierre R, the man who lost his signature
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 14:08
Oh, I almost forgot (see, perfect example of an unknown). The California Guitar Trio. I know they are listed as art-rock, but they do play a lot of classical music.
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 14:18
eugene wrote:
Geck0 wrote:
I would said Maneige were more fusion... well the album I've heard anyhow.
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That's what I was told as well, moreover band is listed here under fusion label. But the only album I heard so far "Les Porches" is purely symphonic in nature with very few jazzy touches.
Par Lindh - first and third albums I have are great - getting Mundus Incompertus soon....
White Willow - have only Ignus Fatuus and Storm Season so far - both are very good.
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I've yet to listen to "Les Porches", I have the other "Ni Vent... Ni Nouvelle" and that is more fusion based to my ears. I'll let you know about "Les Porches".
I have the whole of White Willow's discography. I find they get better and better, but I also find they move away from the symphonic and get closer to prog metal. Storm Season infact, is a prog metal album. They've finished recording their new album and I've heard a demo of one of the tracks and it sounds like they're going back to their older style. I love both styles, so it's cool, but I do hope they include some heavier, more metal moments as well.
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Posted By: progadicto
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 14:48
SOLARIS
DFA
SPEKTAKEL
ASIA MINOR
WHITE WILLOW
R.U.
NEUSCHWENSTEIN
...........
------------- ... E N E L B U N K E R...
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Posted By: DarioIndjic
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 16:59
TAKO
SOLARIS
OMEGA
MUSEO ROSENBACH
------------- Ars longa , vita brevis
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Posted By: hegelec
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 17:22
My votes for best "unknown" symphonic go to:
Gnidrolog: Great symphonic prog with mediaeval influences and very complex pieces. Also notable for the utter lack of a keyboardist, but the careful guitar and flute arrangements lend the band a symphonic grandeur. Impossible to dislike if you are a fan of Gentle Giant.
The Enid: Well, not much more to add that hasn't already been said. If you haven't bought Touch Me yet, do it!
Gravy Train: Okay, Gravy Train are usually a pretty mediocre band, who nonetheless managed to pull a fantastic symphonic album out of thin air with (Ballad of a) Peaceful Man. The writing has clear ITCOTKC influences, with some J. Tull-style rockers thrown in. The string arrangements on here are superbly executed -- highly recommended.
Kyrie Eleison: Austrian Genesis clone, mirroring the bands classic Nursery Cryme sound. Their Fountain Beyond the Sunrise album is notable for brilliant songwriting and playing . . . these guys occasionally match the quality of our favourite band!! Just ignore the horrible, ESL lyrics.
------------- Cheers!
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Posted By: Fritha
Date Posted: June 04 2006 at 09:39
Rocktopus wrote:
1. Cressida. Their flawless, mild and pleasant second and last album 'Asylum' sold only 800 ex. when it was released in '71. It makes me sad thinking about it. Please get this forgotten classic. |
My good man, you are so right! I was just listening to Asylum when I came across this thread and was about to add them to the list -thanks for doing it for me I love Cressida's self-titled debut as well, but admittedly it is less symphonic and more straightforward. Both very worthy to check out, though!
800 copies sold, wow... Knowing this makes me even happier and more grateful to have the chance to listen to this gem over thirty years later.
I'm still on the look-out for lesser-known symphonic stuff (Greenslade is just about the only other band I'm familiar with thus far, also quite good btw) so thanks to everybody for all the bands mentioned here.
------------- I was made to love magic
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Posted By: cucacola54
Date Posted: June 04 2006 at 10:19
Trespass (Israel)
Banco del Mutuo Soccorso
Wobbler
Le Orme
Bacamarte
Discipline
Isildurs Bane
Harmonium
thats the ones that comes to my mind right now
------------- Most listened albums last week
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Posted By: Rashikal
Date Posted: June 04 2006 at 10:35
Grobschnitt
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listen to Hella
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Posted By: Kord
Date Posted: June 04 2006 at 13:36
....Discipline!!!!! great and marvellous...why don't you listen to "unfolded like staircase"?
..and also Anglagard and Citizen Cain
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