an honest study of "negative" prog
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23922
Printed Date: November 23 2024 at 00:20
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: an honest study of "negative" prog
Posted By: Masque
Subject: an honest study of "negative" prog
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 11:46
This is a peaceful post in a peaceful room , look around everybody is at peace so why have a dragged you in here I hear you ask ? well just be patient and I`ll tell you .... It has come to my attention that there is some low quality prog getting around , that's right you heard right ! so I ask you this and please be civil in your response ... Have you heard any crappy prog lately ? 
|
Replies:
Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 11:48
|
The only crappy prog I've heard lately was some local band trying to pull off prog. It didn't work. Most prog I hear, I love. ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 11:53
| This thread is asking for trouble and at the first sign of any it will be closed. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 11:56
AKA if anyone says Rush
 But its similar for me. Most prog i hear i like. I didn't like Kayak when i heard it. Maybe i should try it again. That's what i normally do when i don't like a band/album (Dream Theater comes to mind...not that i'm a huge fan of the band or anything, its just now i can listen to Metropolis Pt:2...) ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Tony R wrote:Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 11:57
|
My only 1 star review:
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=78901 - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=78901 ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 11:58
I was thinkin' it, but decided that it would cause nothing but problems...so I left it out. ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 12:04
You're probably right.
 ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 12:07
I didn`t like Nightingale ... I tried to like them but they just didn`t grab me 
|
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 12:07
|
You are of course free to discuss whatever you like. The vast majority who come here though, do so be course of their love of prog.
We should be talking up prog here, extolling its virtues, telling people how wonderful it is. There are all to many places, magazines, websites, etc., where prog gets knocked. let's try to be positive here, and go easy with the negative threads.
(A personal view)
|
Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 12:10
|
Oh yeah and Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime II I didn`t like it
|
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 12:11
|
I believe Sturgeon's Law applies to Prog just as well as any other art genre: 90% of everything is crud. Thus, the list is incredibly long, but it wouldn't be a True Teaflax Post [TM] if I didn't say this: most of the vocal sections on Neal Morse's ?. Could make for one hell of an instrumental album, though. -------------  
|
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 12:27
|
Kayak and It Bites just didn't strike a chord with me.
And the only way this thread is asking for trouble is if people take offense to somebody not liking what they like. If we just lighten up and not take it so seriously, the we're adult enough to handle it. Just my 2 cents. E ------------- 
|
Posted By: nimrodel
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 12:29
|
i didnt like tools new album.. it doesnt have the passion or something that the previous albums had.. ------------- We want... a shrubbery! |
Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 12:46
Yeah, that album is rather dull. I would probably given it 2/2.5 stars, though. Apparently their latest album is much better. |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 13:01
Notice that you did mispell particularly...
The Eve of Innocence is not a perticularly remarkable album. Sinister Street hasn't emerged from the 80s blazing new trails with an immediatly effective and emotive style. To the contrary, they've basically stuck with the same sound that so many Neo Progressive bands have worn to death. For a relative reference, the musical style on The Eve of Innocence is quite similar to Pendragon's The Jewel and the lesser-known (and not entirely without reason) Solitary Witness by Landmarq.
 ------------- 
|
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 13:06
|
^Mr Pedantic strikes again Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime II is not prog IMO, so it doesnt count here, but OSI's Free was a poor album, I found it very dull. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
|
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 13:13
Where's your apostrophe on the doesn't? -------------
|
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 13:14
Lost in translation ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
|
Posted By: I|I|I|I|I
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 13:37
|
Bad prog? Maybe I'll get bashed for this, but I find Pink Floyd pretty boring. Maybe not bad, but boring.
------------- Go and listen to my music. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31725 |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 13:40
I happen to love all prog, at least all subgenres.... the only bands that didn't grab me at all are AOR-ish bands like Kansas, Styx, and Asia, and aside from that, Symphony X
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 13:47
I didn't know Rideout had a love child?
 ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 13:51
Can I not be a stickler for proper grammar/spelling? -------------
|
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 13:52
No, but you know where you can stick it! ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 13:54
So I've heard. I want to get it, but The Eve of Innocence was only $1.50 plus shipping on Amazon, so why not.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Rosescar
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 14:41
|
I find the Snow Goose to be boring and uninspired. Mirage was so much better:( And no, it's not the lack of vocals. ------------- http://www.soundclick.com/rosescar/ - My music! "THE AUDIENCE WERE generally drugged. (In Holland, always)." - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: progadicto
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 15:01
|
I insist... It's just a matter of taste... ------------- ... E N E L B U N K E R... |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 15:30
Definitely. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 15:54
There are some bands I dont like...but I cant find any crappy one...not in prog!
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 16:29
|
You lucky lot! Seems like you can barely find a bad prog band between you. From the point of view that all prog is better than the black-influenced rubbish in the charts, then I agree - I'd much rather listen to the worst prog bands than popularist garbage. I presume we are omitting bands that started well and became poor parodies of themselves ie Genesis, Eloy, "Camera Camera" period Renaissance etc etc?
But I have come across some truly dire prog bands.
Finneus Gauge - musicianship fine but what a cacophony - did they realise that you can actually string together notes to form something called a tune?
Edith (Italy) - Musicianship poor, song-writing poor and vocals - forget it.
In fact, now I'm struggling - been through my collection and nothing much more stands out as being truly terrible. One caveat being that I did return a few that I didn't like after hearing them.
Right that does prove it - prog really is the tops!
|
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 16:41
You know, that looks more than a little racist. Just in case you didn't mean it to - and I certainly hope you didn't - I thought you'd like to know what it looks like. -------------
|
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 16:48
 Glueman.....I wonder how many Prog bands are influenced by Miles Davis or Jimi Hendrix? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 16:49
| It shouldn't look racist unless one is hyper sensitive to the subject. I'm not in the remotest bit racist - the fact remains that I hate all black music - that's not a racist thing at all, it's not a concious thing - simply hate it all - hip-hop, soul, rap, house, reggae - you name it - it's all utterly dire. Just one of those things I'm afraid. If anyone thinks that is a prejudice - they are completely bonkers! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 16:51
It's just a poorly worded way of saying rap muzak. I catually liked 80s old school rap, but that was a time when rap either had a politcal agenda or was all about partying on the beach. Rap now is frivilous nonsense with repetitive themes that don't mean sh*t.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 16:51
|
The one exception is Jimi - he sits on top of the tree - and yes you can't deny his blues background. I'm not talking about derivative music but the over chart-based drivel. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 16:52
| That should have read "overt" not "over. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 16:52
If that's your considered reponse then I pity you. However lets not let this thread dissolve into ithe mire I predicted at its outset... |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 16:53
I dont see it that way, he's just pointing out that a) a lot of mainstream music has at least a small touch of "urban" style to it, usually a lot more than just a touch and b) a lot of proggers find it absolutely dire. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 16:56
| You pity me? What on earth for? I'm not going to get get into an argument over this. I won't criticise other people on their taste in music - I wouldn't be so arrogant. Is it the fact that I dislike "black" music? Why shouldn't I dislike it? Do I have to keep quiet about what I dislike because someone might be offended? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 16:57
|
I can honestly say that I also don't like the majority of what might be called "black" music. Just don't like it. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 17:04
Sure, but then again most people only know a small part of all the albums that exist. Think about it: 10% of all the albums in the archives would be more than 1,000 albums. And I'm pretty sure that there are still many albums missing in the db. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
|
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 17:06
because you are making a gross genalisation thats why! I do not like any black music is a ridiculous statement... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 17:13
|
"black music" is a really general term ... could mean anything from Soul, Funk, Blues and Gospel to Rap and Hip-Hop. BTW: Check out David Holmes - "Presents the Free Association". In his own words (from the song "Free Ass O-C-8"): "One in Ten will tend to See - A to B as A to C - One in Ten at Ten to Eight - Will tend to free associate." ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 17:13
|
Of course it's not a generalisation. If I ever hear something that I like - then it would become so! Until then it is gramatically correct to say I hate it all! And I DID make it clear that I was talking about popoluarist genres - not about blues et al.
For Cliff's sake - this topic is NOT about policing Glueman's taste in music - wasn't it about "crappy prog". If you want to start a Glueman-knocking strand - please start a new thread.
|
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 17:25
|
If you can't appreciate the groove of The Meters, the sublime rhyming
skills of Jean Grae, the voice of Al Green, the songcraft of Bill
Withers, the inventiveness of 70's era Stevie Wonder, the stomp of
early Isley Brothers, the spy-beats of The Herbaliser, the sheer
exuberance of James Brown (and his killer backing band), the
effortless swing of A Tribe Called Quest, the off-kilter stagger of
Desmond Dekker or at least one of the many facets of Prince just
because they are "black", you are severely limiting your musical
horizons. (and the "all Prog is feckin' fanTAStic" is making a whole lot more sense now...) I just think "black" is very sloppy shorthand for Rap, R&B, Soul, Funk, Jazz and Blues - that's a pretty wide swathe of music to be cutting from your life, especially if you atribute it to one ethnicity. Worse still if, as I assume is the case - you include all dance music genres including stuff that is often more progressive than any Prog band; Squarepusher, DJ Shadow, Depth Charge, FSOL/Anonymous Androgynous...etc. Damn, and I thought I was limited for not being able to take House, Country and Rock'nRoll. I stand corrected. So, what about "yellow" music? Any opinion on bhangra and Bollywood? Or how about "brown" music like Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan or Natacha Atlas? Feh. -------------
|
Posted By: billbuckner
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 17:28
|
Oh God, this is getting locked. Isn't the mere concept of Rock black-influenced? |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 17:30
|
Crap music - it's difficult question, leave alone the fact it's ultimately subjective.
Running the risk to be in minority here, have to say that latest works of such highly estimed masters of the genre as Arena, Spock's Beard, James LaBrie, and those two guys - wozit name - from Office of Strategic Influences, - all their latest albums would quite fit into this description IMO. And again it's only crap comparatively to their previous works, so maybe it's not total crap, but just sort of.
There are of course some newbies to the genres who came up with crap, but it would be grossly unfair to call their names here, as they easily might turn genious with their second album or so (in the same way as it happened with Genesis guys).
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 17:30
Of the above, i only like a littlr James Brown, but I don't feel it limits me. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 17:35
|
Since my childhood "black" music always assosiated with Jazz for me - so I don't know... ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 17:38
|
Just substitute the name - "dance" for "black" if that label offends and as you surmised. yes I hate it - but what do you propose - enforcing people to listen to music that they,to date, had always disliked? Until they, possibly, heard something to change their opinion. You admit to not liking some genres - why can't I? I don't automatically hate something because it falls under a particular label - I listen and then decide. One thing you could not call me is limited in my taste. I listen to many, many types of music from many countries. How can my opinion be other than how it is if I hate what I have heard to date? And I surely made it ABUNDANTLY clear that it is not a racist thing - funny how the black friends I have who know of my musical tastes are not offended!
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 17:39
| Please let us all get back to the subject - it's all very boring! |
Posted By: YYZed
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 18:34
|
This "black-influenced" rubbish is getting to be a little upsetting. Without black influence there would be no rock music, and no prog. There would be no jazz or blues. I think we owe a lot to black influence. And to say the pop garbage out there today is solely derivitive of black music, and not any white music is stupid. Where would the nu-metal bands be without the influence of white metal bands and black rap groups? In response to the topic, I agree with what was said before. It's all a matter of taste. ------------- 
|
Posted By: JesusBetancourt
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 18:40
|
spiral archictect is the worse prog band I have ever heard ------------- "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" John 7:38 |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 18:44
amen to that brother.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dirk
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 18:55
|
I hate Hip hop, Rap and R&B. I also hate most pop music made in dutch language though there are a few exceptions. All prog bands i've heard shine in comparision to these genres. From the prog bands i heard i don't like Nightwish very much (though still much better than the afore mentioned crap). |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 19:15
|
I thought this was a "prog" thread. Take it to another thread, guys. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 19:48
Kansas shouldn't be compared to bands like Styx and Asia. If you've heard their early output you can't argue much that it's not full blown American Prog and if anything Classic Rock, not AOR. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 19:49
Well, I have Leftoverture and it's mediocre at best IMO... it just does nothing for me  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 19:54
Not saying you have to like them of course. Just saying they are full blown prog. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 20:01
| I find Pink Floyd very boring, but i'm far from considering it crap, i respect them too much to say that, i think me not liking it is a question of tastes and that's all. What i really don't like at all, and not just because i consider it boring, but also because i consider it bad is Marillion, i know that a lot of people won't agree, but i think their music is really poor. |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 20:07
I'm not saying they aren't(much proggier than Asia or Styx) It just has a slightly more AOR-ish sound than most other symphonic bands. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 20:27
I have heard it all, and can argue it that they are not full-blown Symphonic Prog. American Prog? Sure. Classic Rock, fine. But real true-to-the-genre Symphonic Prog? Not with that US Radio Rock streak a mile wide running through everything, sorry. A hamburger that's made out of pork is still a pork burger, no matter how good the sesame seed bun is, how many pickles, lettuce and tomatoes you put on it or how much you slather it in ketchup. When the basic ingredient in the song writing is something that goes intrinsically against the genre, it makes it not entirely of that genre. Is Kansas an AOR/Classic Rock/Rawk band with Symphonic leanings? Abso-damn-lutely. It's got lots of condiments and big slice of melted cheese - but it's still a pork burger. -------------
|
Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 21:10
I love early Kansas music , prog is what it is I think, either way I don`t care because I love it so much , Kerry Livgren is amongst one of my favourite song writers and Phil Ehart is my favourite drummer , I know and understand that some people don`t feel the way I do about Kansas music but that doesn`t make my feelings towards their 70`s prog any less valid. What surprises me is the bashing Kansas get ? I mean they are underrated as it is (just look at the top 100 and you won`t find kansas there) Kansas have contributed lots of quality prog in many cases of a higher quality than many of the top 100 cd`s mentioned yet they still get bashed. They are talented they sound original , they play with feel and passion ... I just don`t get it, why some people bash them ? and I never will  |
Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 21:11
| (in Homer Simpson voice) MMMMMMmmmmmmmm Poooork buuuurgerrrr. |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 21:14
|
Hmmmm (steadies his breathing)
Teaflax, Kansas were pulled out of the Art Rock Genre and put in the Symph Prog Genre. To which genre do you think they should go?
Are there any Big American Prog bands that you do like? (by that I mean the biggest are probably Kansas , Dream Theater and a few others).
|
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 21:30
|
I think Kansas maybe qualifies as Redneck Prog, or something. They need
a modifier which sets them apart, because it's such an obvious
difference. Dream Theater are Prog Metal, so I don't bitch about them. Do I like them? Eh. It's standard Rock/Metal with fiddly bits - which seems to be pretty much the definition of Prog Metal, so... American Prog bands I like include the mighty Discipline, the (previously) divine Echolyn and...um, I can't think of any more. -------------
|
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 21:47
| Teaflax,Imagine if I said some British band maybe qualifies for Limey Prog or Pommie Prog? I think the term Redneck Prog is a bit harsh. |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 21:51
 They certainly do have a strong American feel - don't really know why I get this association ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 21:53
|
I think Tool are very low quality. They really are just metal.
Also Dream Theater very low.
|
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 22:02
Maybe because they are an American band
 |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 22:03
  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 22:03
Yeah, but I don't feel the same about any other American band ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Zitro
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 23:45
|
Some of the samples of Van Der Graff Generator (especially Man-Erg) and the sample of MArs Volta in progarchives are some of the most painful music I've ever heard in my life. |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: May 28 2006 at 23:57
Man-Erg!? I can understand TMV; I don't even like them a whole lot and the noise can be a bit much, but I think Man-Erg is one of VdGG's most beautiful songs. But then again you probably love things that I hate.
I can't understand what all the fuss about Kid A is. Most of it has no depth because of all the electronics. I don't mind electronic elements, but Radiohead aren't even good at electronics! I also don't understand the fuss about Yes and King Crimson, but whatever. ------------- "Never forget that the human race with technology is like an alcoholic with a barrel of wine." Sleepytime Gorilla Museum: Because in their hearts, everyone secretly loves the Unabomber. |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 00:07
| I was actually listening to a lot of King Crimson today, but I just don´t see why it is so highly praised. It all sounds like a bad trip. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 00:37
Bravo Teaflax, according to you we should create a genre for each country, but let me tell you something, Kansas sounds different because they are from USA, PFM sounds diffenet because they are from Italy and so in each country and maybe if you dig harder you could divide them more because there are countries with two three or seven different ethnic groups.
Kansas is Symphonic by own right, they formed the band in 1971 along with all the other pioneers of the sub-genre, while in most of the world except in UK, Italy, Netherlands and a couple of countries more, people was stuck with late psychedelia, they were already writting music with a clear Symphonic main structure.
If you say rednecks because they add country music influence, you're right, this guys were born in Topeka Kansas, they were raised listening country and they had the right to add their own individual influence to their music to make it even richer.
They add Hard Rock? Yes, that's also truth, you have to play tough music in Kansas if not you're considered a sissy, but again that's part of their individuality.
When Strawbs or Renaissance add their own Folk music, people take their hats off and shout it's artistic, I agree with that, but when a USA band adds a slight touch of country music then it's a sin and a blasphemy, sorry but this sounds xenophobic to me.
Kansas was one of the first (If not the first) Symphonic band to leave the keyboards in second place basing their sound in violin, that makes them unique also.
But what makes me laugh more is that people call Kansas AOR just because they are from USA and reached their peak of popularity in the same moment that bands as Styx or Boston.
If you only heard Dust in the Wind, I admit this belief, but in this case better not talk about a band that you haven't heard enough from, and if you heard more....... please tell me where do you find the AOR sound in:
Song for America
Magnum Opus
Miracles Out of Nowhere
Closet Chronicles
Hopelessly Human
Journey from Mariabronn
Death of Mother Nature Suite
Lamplight Symphony
Mysteries and Mayhem
Questions of my childhood
Opus Insert
Nobody's Home
Lightning hand
Belexes
Icarus - Borne on the Wings of Steel
Many "so called" great Prog bands just can dream of recording 50% this number of excellent tracks (I'm not mentioning at least 10 other great tracks).
BTW: Progressive Rock was also considered and AOR genre (ALBUM ORIENTED ROCK) because the bands rarely released singles and most of their efforts were directed to create full albums that could be fully played in AOR (ALBUM ORIENTED RADIO) stations instead of searching for a top 40 hit.
The problem is that Kansas had 2, maybe 3 popular songs and something some Prog fans don't forgive is popularity.
If the band is excellent but popular and played in radios it has to be AOR, if the band sucks terribly and for this reason has two fans (Of course one of the two is the reviewer) they call it a "cult" or "underground" band.
Please!
Iván
------------- 
|
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 03:16
|
Well, you know, Italian Symph has it's own category, and the difference
between that and tru-blue Symphonic Prog is far smaller than when
compared to Kansas. So, Italian Prog is a veal burger, I guess.
Besides, The Dixie Dregs can keep them company, and maybe Spock's Beard
too. And, for the record: I do not give an airborne copulation if a band has had any hits or not. I am perfectly able to judge their output based on merit, rather than some spurious popularity criterion. It's AOR if it uses that kind of tonality and those kinds of harmonies. And yes, Song for America and Magnum Opus I remember as being quite good (especially the latter, unless my memory fails me - which it admittedly often does), with some minor CSNY-like moments but a lot of really nice instrumental bits. But of what I recall, those were standouts in a pretty dire bunch of tunes, and not enough to redeem the totality of their output. I had a friend back in the 90's who really, really wanted to convince me of Kansas' greatness, and he was adamant that once I saw them live (opening for Yes), I would understand. And that may be one of the saddest things I have ever seen, in that it was like a parody of all that is awful and overblown about Prog. So, sorry, while there are certainly many elements that are Pure Prog about Kansas, they will always be a Pork Burger to me. -------------
|
Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 04:17
 That is SO truthful. There is something amongst prog fans that almost enjoys supporting the under-dog, the un-heard of, to buck the trends, Prog fans have shunned the successful for the last 30+ years.
There is nothing wrong with supporting the little man, but success hatred is just plain weird! It's definitely getting worse though. Crazy business. For me, well I think Kansas are prog. But I also am unsure if it really matters. P-C
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 12:23
-------------
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 12:33
|
hahahha.... I've been waiting for you two to meet.....
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 12:43
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 13:02
Spaghetti Prog? Yes!!! I want a new tag under my name... "Spaghetti Prog Specialist"... Wouldn't it sound great? BTW, we have so many different pasta varieties in Italy, it's unfair we always get stuck with the "spaghetti" tag.Seriously, though, I think Kansas have the right to be in the Symphonic Prog section. True, in the '80s they made some albums that can be defined as AOR - but then, Genesis mostly made pop albums in that same decade, and no one is suggesting we throw them out of Symph! As to the American influence, I endorse 100% what my fellow team members have written so far. Or are local, "ethnic" influences only acceptable for European bands? |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 13:39
Black music =  ------------- sig |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 13:40
I should be given a title 'Progressive Jizz Rock Fan / Gay Metal Speciallist'.
Not really! ------------- sig |
Posted By: Tasartir
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 13:51
|
In my opinion, negative prog is:
Operation Mindcrime II (Queensryche)
Tormato (Yes)
Holidays in Eden (Marillion)
and a few others I don't even want to remember because I probably had to take the time to toss them out the window. Sorry fans of these albums. ------------- ...Histoires Sans Paroles... |
Posted By: stechell
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 16:06
|
Well, even though it is not a so bad album (2 1/2 stars), OSI's "Free" album was a deception for me. Bad Prog??? NO WAY!! ...I'm enjoying RUSH and that was an impossible a month ago
|
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: May 29 2006 at 17:17
While I wholeheartedly agree with you that "Free" is a deception, I was wondering, if you rate "deception" with 2 and a half stars, what would be 1 star in your rating system - "rape", "murder" or what ???
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 17:24
Same here! AOR-ish band just plain suck, and Symphony X is incredibley formulaic. -------------  
|
Posted By: pepo
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 17:44
| I don't think that there are necessarily bad bands but bad albums. I really hate many modern yes, genesis, crimson, and such. I like Kansas although it always sounded me as if Mark Farner of Grand Funk Railroad was singing there. In fact all american singers seem to have the same voice as Farner. Nonetheless there are good american bands like Echolyn. American bands I dislike are Starcastle, Cathedral (the old one) and some long Spock Beard songs. Styx is also very uneven. |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 18:02
-------------
|