Zeuhl Open Discussion
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23704
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Topic: Zeuhl Open Discussion
Posted By: walrus333
Subject: Zeuhl Open Discussion
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 21:46
Hey Ive noticed that Zeuhl doesnt get discussed much here besides a bit of Magam discussion. So this thread is dedicated to Zeuhl, any discussion on the subject matter anyone might hvae
To start off I have 5 Suns by Guapo, which I love is there earlier stuff worth tracking down. Also I was wondering if there is any modern Zeuhl, Guapo is all I can think of and I suppose they are not "Pure Zeuhl."
------------- If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!
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Replies:
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 21:54
Zeuhl is one or maybe the weirdest genre of prog, dark and beautiful at the same time, besides Magma i can talk a bit about Dûn and Ruins..
For me Dun - Eros is an excellent album which show us the complexity and particular Zeuhl sound, since opne week ago i have an albumn by Lagger Blues Machine, it sounds very early 70`s and for me not a clear example of Zeuhl...
That`s what i can say now
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman
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Posted By: dagrush
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 22:11
I've really been getting into Magma lately (listening to them nearly non-stop sometimes) and I've checked out the great Eros album as well. There are a lot of other Zeuhl bands listed here that I plan to look into shortly. Aside from Magma and Dun (obviously), who should I go for next?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/omgwtfdagrush/">
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 22:21
Im very interested of Happy Family - Tossco, because it`s rating in 9 entries... but being honest.. wait for Syzygy or some zeuhl specialist who can talk much better about it
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman
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Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 23:52
Posted By: slowfire85
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 05:11
Here are some zeuhl albums I highly recommend:
Magma- kohntarkosz, wurdah itah, mekanik kommandoh
Dun - Eros
Eskaton- 4 levels
Here are a few french bands that may not be zeuhl but are very dark and heavy;
Arachnoid- s/t dark, creepy prog with some nice guitar riffs and piano solos
Flamen Dialis- sounds like a soundtrack for a 70's horror film, but here is a better description: French underground band consisting of lots of keyboards, plus guitar, percussion/drums, a little bit of vocals and a touch of other instruments. Their music is often built upon layers of mellotrons, synthesizers and keyboards, and then overlaid with acoustic guitars and various other effects and instruments. I hear a cross between Heldon, circa Allez Teia (but not as spacey) and Brain-era Tangerine Dream, with elements from other French and even some Germany/Krautrock underground type bands as well.
Pulsar(strands of the future), and Shylock(Il De Fievre) are also woth checking out.
------------- What is prog rock ?
It is music that does progress. Progressive music takes a riff, turns it inside out, plays it upside down and the other way around, and explores its potential.
K.Emerson
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Posted By: vogre
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 06:24
The earlier Guapo are much noisier than the current. They do have the Zeuhl influences, but real compositions began to appear only on Five Suns and Black Oni. The Guapo offshot Miasma & the Carousel of Headless Horses should be of more interest.
The Universal Totem Orchestra only album is a great mix of Zeuhl and Symphonic prog, it's very dinamic and really recommended.
The japanese scene is very interesting as well with Koenjihyakkei and Bondage Fruit, besides the well known Ruins.
Happy Family aren't totally Zeuhl, they are also influenced by King Crimson and other bands. You can check their samples at the cuneiform records site.
French Sotos and Zaar, while being not exactly Zeuhl, and more chamber rock sound like Univers Zero, do have Zeuhl influences, particulary in the first Sotos album, or the 27 minutes Wu from the second Sotos album.
A much less known band are Xaal, their album Second Ere is excellent instrumental Zeuhl. And another french band - Eskaton, make Zeuhl in the vein of Magma with operatic vocals and such.
Magma offshots like Zao or Weidorje are good as well.
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Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:12
Lots of interesting points raised so far. Guapo's last 2 albums are Zeuhl, but as others have pointed out their earlier albums (mostly unavailable) are more avant prog noise. They haven't updated their website for months, incidentally - don't know why they've been so quiet, but they're scheduled to appear at this year's NEARFest.
The most interesting contemporary Zeuhl (aside from Guapo) has come from Japan. Koenjihyakkei's Angherr Shisspa is an absolute masterpiece and like Guapo drags the genre into the 21st century with no compromise. Ruins are legends, start with Symphonica and take it from there, but be warned that their duo albums can be extremely challenging. Also featuring Yoshida is the excellent Daimonji, whose Improg album is one of the most enjoyable things I've heard in ages.
I'd also recommend two bands who appear here as RIO/Avant prog. Univers Zero have more of a chamber rock sound, and Heresie is a dark masterpiece which makes Magma sound like The Bee Gees at times. Art Zoyd`also had a strong Zeuhl influence - check out Phase IV and particularly the wonderful opening piece Etat D'Urgence.
------------- 'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:17
As stated by Syzygy, Ruins and Koenjihyakkei are indeed cool Zeuhl bands. They "use" the Magma sound, while giving it a very special, Japanese, crazy twist!
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=4402 - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=4402 (a free sample can be found here as well)
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=6095 - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=6095 (also including a free sample)
KOENJIHYAKKEI — NivraymReview by http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=1076 - Syzygy (Chris Gleeson) SPECIAL COLLABORATOR Zeuhl/RIO Specialist
Yoshida Tatsuya has never made any secret of his love for Zeuhl, and nowhere is this more obvious than on his work with Koenji Hyakkei, which he once said he intended to be the Japanese Magma. This album more than delivers on that promise, and is one of the most exciting and accessible projects he has ever been involved with.
Right from the outset this album will bring a smile to the face of any Zeuhl head - a bubbling bass line, nano second precise cymbal crashes and massed male and female vocals call to mind some of Magma's jazzier excursions, although on the title track there are a couple of diversions into Ruins style mayhem that Christian Vander would never include on a mainstream release. The vocals are in an invented language (not Kobaian, although it sounds similar) which further adds to the occasional feeling that this is an out take from a lost Magma session. This is not simply a rehashing of Magma's finest moments, however - there are enough original touches to let you know that Koenji Hyakkei are a band with their own ideas and agenda. Synthesisiers are used far more extensively than on most Magma releases, while the guitarst occasionally gets to cut loose with some downright dirty rock sounds where Vander (who often leaves guitar out altogether) would favour a cleaner, jazz oriented tone. More than anything else, what sets Koenji Hyakkei apart is their sheer sense of urgency. The longest track on this album, Lussesoggi Zomn, clocks in at just over 10 minutes, but feels like one of Magma's lengthier excursions compressed to about a quarter of its original length. They even manage to include an ever ascending scale ( a neat inversion of the ever descending scale in Kohntarkohsz). There's also a sense of fun (not humour, exactly, but the feeling that the musicians are cracking huge grins at each other as they trade lightspeed licks) that is often absent from the core Zeuhl acts.
This album is recommended to anyone into virtusoic playing and the wilder side of avant prog. The labyrinthine twists and turns, with sudden shifts in tempo and dynamics, will leave you slack jawed with astonishment, while any one of these 9 pieces will leave 2 or 3 fragments of melody reverberating around your skull for days after you've listened to it. This is by no means just for Zeuhl fans - open minded fans of just about any sub genre should find plenty to enjoy on here, between the highly symphonic keyboard sounds, the piledriving rhythms, the jazzy chord patterns and the general atmosphere of a group of highly skilled players doing exactly what they do best and loving every minute of it. Subarashii desu!
Fantastic review there Syzygy! I agree on all points!
I personally like early Art Zoyd even better, but I think it's more Avant-Prog or Chamber Rock than Zeuhl...
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=4702 - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=4702
ART ZOYD — Symphonie Pour Le Jour Où Brûleront Les CitésReview by http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=69 - Joren (Joren van Ree) SPECIAL COLLABORATOR Errors Editor & Rio/Avant Specialist
4,5 stars really!
From the late sixties on, a French collective named Art Zoyd developed an original musical mix of avant-garde progressive rock, jazz and modern classical music. The first attempt of violinist Hourbette and bassist Zaboitzeff (the two constant elements in the band) to bring the world in touch with their music was through a single in 1969, but a second single and their first full-length record, entitled Symphonie Pour Le Jour Où Brûleront Les Cités, didn’t appear until 1976; the definitive mix was released in 1980, because the first issue had such poor sound quality. Art Zoyd were part of the RIO (Rock In Opposition) movement - which also included Henry Cow and Univers Zero - but since RIO was in fact only a temporary movement, most people now call their music Chamber Rock or, more generally, Avant-Progressive Rock.
Although on their debut album Art Zoyd already incorporated a lot of original elements in their sound that pointed at future developments, it is clear that they were heavily influenced by fellow Frenchmen Magma. Sometimes the group sounds so much like Magma here that it led some people to refer to Symphonie as a Zeuhl record. I agree that the vocals clearly pay debts to Magma and although Hourbette didn’t invent his own language (like Magma band-leader Christian Vander did), the vocalists don’t sing in any existing language either. It is true that some instrumental sections show Magma influences as well, but the instrumentation is where the comparison will eventually go wrong, for Art Zoyd don’t have a drummer. And that’s one of the things that clearly puts them aside from Zeuhl bands. It is probably the lack of a drummer, and the inclusion of wind and string instruments what landed them the tag ‘Chamber Rock’. But, don’t be fooled; despite the absence of a drumkit, Art Zoyd’s music can be very rhythmical, thanks to Zaboitzeff’s energetic bass playing and the often sharp and staccato string and wind arrangements.
Directly from the start of the album, it’s clear that the band is not trying to ‘ease the listener in’: this is some mindblowing stuff! Wild, pointy passages are alternated by quiet ones and the interplay between the strings and wind instruments is outstanding. The lively piano and bass playing is of exceptional quality as well, and the latter will certainly please Magma fans. Both the rhythms and melodies are compelling and the dissonance sounds very natural overall. At the end of Simulacres (the last part of the title track) the music climaxes, and the album continues in a more light-hearted, even humouristic way with Deux Images De La Cité Imbécile. The vocal gibberish on Les Fourmis reminds me of Can’s Tago Mago, and a few riffs bring Mike Oldfield to mind. Scènes De Carnaval is very quirky as well, and it contains some nice jazzrock/fusion.
In conclusion, Symphonie is an interesting part of Art Zoyd history, but above all it’s a beautiful album that can (and should) be greatly appreciated by both Avant-Prog and Zeuhl fans, while the latter might find later Art Zoyd works - which have no relation to the Zeuhl genre - a bit too “cold”. If you are new to the world of Avant-Prog, you might be better off trying Mariage Du Ciel Et L’Enfer or another eighties album from Art Zoyd’s discography, for those are more typical and represent both the band and the subgenre better. But if you’re already into this kind of music, make sure to get this gem! It is now only available on a double CD set, released in 1987 and accompanied by Art Zoyd’s second and third album and four bonus tracks (including the a-sides of the two singles I mentioned before). All this makes it a worthwhile purchase for all people who like challenging music!
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Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:06
I only know Magma, Dun, Guapo and Univers zero
So much to do
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:12
I've recently listened to the samples on the Zeuhl page here, and I love all of them, except... Magma. Go figure.
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:23
I really enjoy Magma and Dun already, and now I'm starting to get into Happy Family and Far Corner (who haven't yet been mentioned). Ruins' music is great, but I don't like it too much.
------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:32
Apart from obvious Magma, I would recommend Weidorje (sole eponymous album)and Zao (Osiris, Shekina, Kawana). Just perfect!!!
Modern Zeuhl or zeuhl-ish band is Runaway Totem from Italy - their album Tep Zepi is highly recommended.
------------- carefulwiththataxe
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Posted By: walrus333
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:46
Lol, on a somewhat silly note is there any way to learn the Kobian Language? Like is it in the liner notes of Magma albums so you can figure it out or what? (I download my albums usually)
------------- If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:50
Arkham's eponymous record (the album in my avatar) is sort of zeuhl-related as they include members who will soon join Magma and Univers Zero. It's very poorly recorded though, and kind of a jam in places. but I thought I'd throw it out there with everything else.
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 18:24
I am curious. I had never heard of Zeuhl before I found this site (other than as a demonic character in "Ghostbusters"). I also have never heard of any of the bands in this genre. What would you compare it to? My favorites are Genesis, KC, Yes, Marillion, Porcupine Tree, etc. Don't much care for bands like DT, and Tool. Would I like it?
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
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Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 18:45
Syzygy wrote:
Lots of interesting points raised so far. Guapo's last 2 albums are Zeuhl, but as others have pointed out their earlier albums (mostly unavailable) are more avant prog noise. They haven't updated their website for months, incidentally - don't know why they've been so quiet, but they're scheduled to appear at this year's NEARFest.
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I also had noticed that their site hasn't been updated in awhile. And after listening to Five Suns again, I must agree with you that they do have more of a Zeuhl edge on the later albums (I don't own any of their early albums unfortunately, but the samples I heard seems more Avant-Garde than Zeuhl).
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Posted By: walrus333
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 14:48
Is Lagger Blues Machine any good?
------------- If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 15:35
bhikkhu wrote:
I am curious. I had never heard of Zeuhl before I found this site (other than as a demonic character in "Ghostbusters"). I also have never heard of any of the bands in this genre. What would you compare it to? My favorites are Genesis, KC, Yes, Marillion, Porcupine Tree, etc. Don't much care for bands like DT, and Tool. Would I like it? |
Check them out yourself, here's the page with the samples:
http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=11 - http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=11
Some of that stuff is really, and I mean really, uncompromising. If you don't like it, please give it another chance. Enjoy !
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 23:34
Visitor13 wrote:
Check them out yourself, here's the page with the samples:
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Thanks for the tip. I checked it out, and it sounds pretty cool. So the next question would be, where to start?
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
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Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: May 25 2006 at 02:45
Zeuhl is too Avant Garde
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: May 25 2006 at 04:37
Abstrakt wrote:
Zeuhl is too Avant Garde |
No, Zeuhl is weird but good
Avant is also good but different
------------- carefulwiththataxe
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: May 25 2006 at 14:38
I just heard Magma's "Mekanïk Destruktïw Kommandöh." This is some very interesting stuff, and I do like it. It's so different though, that I can't really compare it to other prog. I truly understand the Wagner references. What I see at this point is that I will probably listen to it the same way as I do Opera. It's more like sitting down to watch a movie, rather than just "putting on" some music.
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
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Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 25 2006 at 16:54
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 18:59
Is Zao worth my time? I have only seen a couple of reviews for their albums one person seems to absolutely love them while one can't stand them. I love Magma and Dun, I also have a Univers Zero CD- they are supposed to be semi zehuel I guess. I'll need to find out more about Zao though, are they great or mediocre? Are they worth while or is there better Zehuel groups to check out before them (other than Magma and Dun which I already own and love).
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Posted By: MusicForSpeedin
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 19:41
Posted By: Explorer-eighth
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 19:57
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
Is Zao worth my time? I have only seen a couple of reviews for their albums one person seems to absolutely love them while one can't stand them. I love Magma and Dun, I also have a Univers Zero CD- they are supposed to be semi zehuel I guess. I'll need to find out more about Zao though, are they great or mediocre? Are they worth while or is there better Zehuel groups to check out before them (other than Magma and Dun which I already own and love). | I seem to remember buying a Zao album on vinyl about 20 years ago, but it didn't appeal to me. I can't remember why and I sold it soon afterwards. I bought Weidorje and I found it listenable, but rather plain.
I rate Univers Zero highly especially "Ceux du Dehors" and "Heresie" which use the cor anglais which has a more appropriate timbre than the clarinet which they used in later releases. Also, the synthesiser becomes too prominent later, but it does work well as on "Heatwave". "1313", which was their debut release, is good, but the sound quality isn't as good as it used to be on vinyl when it used to be called "Univers Zero". It had a black sleeve similar to the new design, but it was better on the original because the writing used fancy calligraphy rather than just plain text. I bought "Crawling wind" on vinyl, but I've never bought it on CD because I don't like the name of it. I can't quite remember what it sounded like - was it like "Uzed"?
I suppose I like most of Art Zoyd's music, but it is an acquired taste. I would rate "Generations sans futur" the most highly because it sounds more natural; has no synthesisers; and it has a more fluid structure than most especially the track "Trois miniatures" which is truly one of my favourites. On the CD there isn't enough of a time gap between that track and the archives tracks which come in too suddenly and which are of historic interest only.
The record sleeves were wonderful art work and I wish they would release all their albums separately. The later releases rely more on repetition, but there is another great track on the album "Phase 1V" which is called "Ballade".
"Symphonie pour le jour ou brulerent les cities" has some good music on it, but it is more chaotic. "Musique pour l'odyssee" uses repetition, but it is not boring and the use of the strings works well.
Eskaton's "4 Visions" is their best album, but the tracks are now in the "wrong" order. I thought they were in the perfect order on the cassette which was how it was originally released. Also, one of the tracks has a different ending with something of the original cut off. I like the original ending better and it shouldn't have been cut.
------------- The music I enjoy is complex; varied; deep and well played.
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: June 09 2006 at 21:02
Explorer-eighth wrote:
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
Is Zao worth my time? I have only seen a couple of reviews for their albums one person seems to absolutely love them while one can't stand them. I love Magma and Dun, I also have a Univers Zero CD- they are supposed to be semi zehuel I guess. I'll need to find out more about Zao though, are they great or mediocre? Are they worth while or is there better Zehuel groups to check out before them (other than Magma and Dun which I already own and love). | I seem to remember buying a Zao album on vinyl about 20 years ago, but it didn't appeal to me. I can't remember why and I sold it soon afterwards. I bought Weidorje and I found it listenable, but rather plain.
I rate Univers Zero highly especially "Ceux du Dehors" and "Heresie" which use the cor anglais which has a more appropriate timbre than the clarinet which they used in later releases. Also, the synthesiser becomes too prominent later, but it does work well as on "Heatwave". "1313", which was their debut release, is good, but the sound quality isn't as good as it used to be on vinyl when it used to be called "Univers Zero". It had a black sleeve similar to the new design, but it was better on the original because the writing used fancy calligraphy rather than just plain text. I bought "Crawling wind" on vinyl, but I've never bought it on CD because I don't like the name of it. I can't quite remember what it sounded like - was it like "Uzed"?
I suppose I like most of Art Zoyd's music, but it is an acquired taste. I would rate "Generations sans futur" the most highly because it sounds more natural; has no synthesisers; and it has a more fluid structure than most especially the track "Trois miniatures" which is truly one of my favourites. On the CD there isn't enough of a time gap between that track and the archives tracks which come in too suddenly and which are of historic interest only.
The record sleeves were wonderful art work and I wish they would release all their albums separately. The later releases rely more on repetition, but there is another great track on the album "Phase 1V" which is called "Ballade".
"Symphonie pour le jour ou brulerent les cities" has some good music on it, but it is more chaotic. "Musique pour l'odyssee" uses repetition, but it is not boring and the use of the strings works well.
Eskaton's "4 Visions" is their best album, but the tracks are now in the "wrong" order. I thought they were in the perfect order on the cassette which was how it was originally released. Also, one of the tracks has a different ending with something of the original cut off. I like the original ending better and it shouldn't have been cut. |
Yeah I have Unives Zero's album 1313 I'll investigate them and Art Zoyd in depth, but you reckon Eskaton's 4 visions is good, i'll explore them some more
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Posted By: Explorer-eighth
Date Posted: June 11 2006 at 22:15
I have recently bought Udu Wudu by Magma and it doesn't appeal to me.
There is one short track which stands out amongst the rest. It is the third track called "Troller Tanz (ghost dance)". It has more melody and variety, but what annoys me is when we get to the end of the track, there is a great melody with the piano taking the lead part, but then it fades away quickly and finishes when there is so much lost potential and much that could have been made of it.
The title track includes some brass instruments which help to make it sound more interesting, but all the other short tracks are too repetitive.
De Futura starts off really well (that is the first 8 minutes of the track). After that it just goes on and on and on with repetition.
In the mid 70s, Magma seem to lose their distinctive Orff; Stravinsky; jazz; Soft Machine influences and their ethnic influences become much stronger, unfortunately.
I still love 1001 degrees centigrades; Magma; In edits and Kohntarkosz.
------------- The music I enjoy is complex; varied; deep and well played.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 13 2006 at 05:06
Explorer-eighth wrote:
I seem to remember buying a Zao album on vinyl about 20 years ago, but it didn't appeal to me. I can't remember why and I sold it soon afterwards. I bought Weidorje and I found it listenable, but rather plain. >> Zao is more Etnic and Happy sounding than Magma . I think I am still the only one to have reviewed albums of theirs. Not indispensible, but a welcome departure from Magma doom and sombre futures
I rate Univers Zero highly especially "Ceux du Dehors" and "Heresie" which use the cor anglais which has a more appropriate timbre than the clarinet which they used in later releases. Also, the synthesiser becomes too prominent later, but it does work well as on "Heatwave". "1313", which was their debut release, is good, but the sound quality isn't as good as it used to be on vinyl when it used to be called "Univers Zero". It had a black sleeve similar to the new design, but it was better on the original because the writing used fancy calligraphy rather than just plain text. I bought "Crawling wind" on vinyl, but I've never bought it on CD because I don't like the name of it. I can't quite remember what it sounded like - was it like "Uzed"? Crawling Winds was a 83 Japan-only EP release >> it got a re-issue on the Cuneiform release of the same name in 2001. Crawling Winds is definitely more related to the previous three albums , than the latter Uzed period. I just rewrote my revciews of early UZ up to UZED, Read up to see what crawling wind is about
I suppose I like most of Art Zoyd's music, but it is an acquired taste. I would rate "Generations sans futur" the most highly because it sounds more natural; has no synthesisers; and it has a more fluid structure than most especially the track "Trois miniatures" which is truly one of my favourites. On the CD there isn't enough of a time gap between that track and the archives tracks which come in too suddenly and which are of historic interest only. >> I have now been immersed for two weeks in Art Zoyd (reason wht new reviews have not come in) and I must say I am impressed. I did remember listening to a few albums in the 90's , but I had failed to see the light. I think that I have the necessary luggage to understand it now
The record sleeves were wonderful art work and I wish they would release all their albums separately. The later releases rely more on repetition, but there is another great track on the album "Phase 1V" which is called "Ballade". >> these are next on my list >> in the following weeks, as I must order them from the library
"Symphonie pour le jour ou brulerent les cities" has some good music on it, but it is more chaotic. "Musique pour l'odyssee" uses repetition, but it is not boring and the use of the strings works well.
Eskaton's "4 Visions" is their best album, but the tracks are now in the "wrong" order. I thought they were in the perfect order on the cassette which was how it was originally released. Also, one of the tracks has a different ending with something of the original cut off. I like the original ending better and it shouldn't have been cut. >> Eskaton is on my list I got a friend who just bought their albums |
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: progressive
Date Posted: June 13 2006 at 05:25
Many aren't appeald by Magma's Üdü Wüdü, but why, why, why, why, why, o-why?
Tell me. I like it (partly, but in a hard way - partly very much).
Too avantgarde? No. Not "avantgarde". And why not to be avantgarde? Could it be avantgarde if everyone liked it - no.
Magma (not all, but most of it), Ruins (not all the punk parts), and Dün are amazing, and other zeuhl. It's very progressive, it's emotional, it's crazy. Oh, the drums, and what bass lines, and the high female vocals with low (and high:)) male growling, and the imaginated world (not the main idea), and the symphonism, heavier than anything and happy parts, aah. Though, Happy Family hasn't mesmerized me.
Abstrakt wrote:
Zeuhl is too Avant Garde |
Is zeuhl too heavy (I mean - too dynamic and raging.) or too oddly and funnily and in a gay way beautiful, almost pretentious? Maybe, those styles are in their zenith in zeuhl maybe. But there's also irony in zeuhl and you must learn to tolerate zeuhl style - maybe by thinking all the chances zeuhl is offering. It's so different and broadens your world, and also arouses different feelings and thoughts. Think zeuhl for example music in head of some people who are arguing, or being some neurotic persons world - like krautrock - routined or something. Or just think it as being odd dance - or "celestial". Or..
But, those things are represented in some other genres too - so, is zeuhl too progressive?
And it's not
Rock-in-Opposition /Avant-prog (RIO de festival:)), or yes it is - like krautrock maybe, but they are clearer and maybe more considered, stucked. Although i think Frank Zappa is more really let's say for example RIO :), but The Residents is avantgarde, when avantgarde is consireded as a genre which has more got stuck with its own things that clearly belongs to that genre (against the idea "avantgarde") - for example the cirkus themes and low electronic vocals... So it would be nice to separate old classical avantgarde from the idea of "avantgarde", although of course it has been avantgarde, and also now being - but is progressive rock always avantgarde in some way..
ok, i'm done.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 13 2006 at 09:49
The groups I would avoid in Zeuhl are :
Runaway totem >> derivative , and increasingly sampled music as album go by
Musique Noise: not bad but nothing worth writing home aboit either.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 04:14
First review of mine of Art Zoyd: the debut (original recording not the re-recorded version of 81)
Art Zoyd – Le Jour Ou Brûleront Les Cités (76)
Little did Art Zoyd know that one day this album would become prophetic thirty years later. Hailing from, a small industrial (mining and steel) city in Northern France a stone’s throw from Belgium (Maubeuge is where one of my great-grandfather was born), no doubt these guys lived in those suburbs that they predicted one day from a revolt would burn. One of the most intriguing things is how these future musicians got into such an awesome and experimental avant-garde group as Art Zoyd. Apart from the fact that a lot of Northern France’s industrial cities were voting communist, one of the few positive things that communism ever brought was to make higher culture accessible to everyone including the poor (ESPECIALLY the poor), and this IMHO, might just be their (AZ) case. As was the case for Area, Henry Cow and other ultra avant-garde, Art Zoyd was resolutely left wing, much like all of the RIO-chart signatory groups (of which AZ were not original members but part of the second wave) and have a close link to Belgium’s Univers Zero, their career throughout.
I am writing the preface of this review under a hypothetical probability strictly knowing what the album has to offer in terms of story through the titles of their works (no lyrics since the music is totally instrumental except for wordless vocals), but there seems to be a solid thread or story, even pressing me to declare this album conceptual. The music, clearly inspired from Bartok, Stravinsky, and Henry Cow or Zappa’s “serious music” is screaming, yelling, howling its madness of the riots between Special Brigades and the activists wearing Masks into Masquerade (Simulacre is a sham or an pretentious enactment). This first side is simply stunning and the violence and tension ever present even if there is absolutely no rock element in their music (bar a short passage in Fourmis), but it fits their theme immaculately well.
The second side is an auto-criticism of those suburbs not yet in revolt: two tracks (the third one, Simulacre, still belonging to the first-side theme) depicting the never-ending suffering with an elusive hope of a brighter future (the revolt coming once this hope disappears). Fourmis (ants) is self-explanatory of their plight (with a passage compared to Canada Brass’ Flight Of The Bumblebee), while Carnival (a very important theme even in atheist circles) is one of those breaks were they are allowed to vent off their frustrations by deriding the ones dominating them. As you might expect, the music loses some of its solemnity in this last track to adopt a (relatively) more festive tone.
Clearly the works of violinist Gerard Hourbette, greatly helped by Zabotzieff (of Polish descent like many miners fleeing Poland’s misery in the late XIXth century) on bass and cello, the music is an impressive modern XXth classic, where my buddy JP Soarez soars on the woodwinds.
Dense, impenetrable or not easily accessible, this album (as most of AZ’s works) does not surrender easily to one’s taste buds. As a matter of fact, this sometimes obtuse (because of its difficult nature) is not easily recommendable unless you are a confirmed fan of this RIO-Zeuhl music current. Hence the four star rating.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 06:16
Sean Trane wrote:
The groups I would avoid in Zeuhl are :
Runaway totem >> derivative , and increasingly sampled music as album go by
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What album(s) you've got in mind??
I love their Tep Zepi, but not very much impressed by Zed (only two albums I've heard)
"Derivative" - ? - from who ???
And sometimes I doubt this band is Zeuhl....
------------- carefulwiththataxe
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 06:18
Don't think Art Zoyd got anything to do with Zeuhl
.............
I wonder why my previous post appeared all in small print ????
------------- carefulwiththataxe
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 07:33
eugene wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
The groups I would avoid in Zeuhl are :
Runaway totem >> derivative , and increasingly sampled music as album go by
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What album(s) you've got in mind??
I love their Tep Zepi, but not very much impressed by Zed (only two albums I've heard)
"Derivative" - ? - from who ???
And sometimes I doubt this band is Zeuhl....
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Runaway Totem is definitely derivative of Magma. I have Zed at home and heard Tep Zepi and rented from the library the last album which is full of sampled instruments
As for Art Zoyd, their classic music sound (I speak of their 70's and early 80's albums) is very similar to Univers Zero, which gives a definite RIO genre, but if you listen closelu to AZ and UZ, and compare to Magma, you will see the obvious influences
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 08:30
I cna't find any online stores that deal with Eskatons 4 Visions or Magma's Christian Vander Wurdah Itah are those two CDs out of print or something?
I will look up Zao and Ruins and Happy Family ( although I do think most newer prog is a step down and tends to indulge too much in the past than look to the future (except Radiohead and Mars Volta and a few others)).
I'll look out for Art Zoyd, and I'll get UV's Ceux de Dehores and Heresie.
I got Kohntarkosz yesterday I love it for me it is the epitome of what Zehuel is, i've listened to it a dozen times already I prefer it to MDK, I think it is Magma's finest so far (I've got Udu Wudu and Attahk as well), I think Kohntarkosz is where UV got their sound from(well from 1313 anyway thats all I've heard) it's dark and energetic yet joyful as well. 5/5
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Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 08:52
Bug
------------- 'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 08:56
eugene wrote:
Don't think Art Zoyd got anything to do with Zeuhl
.............
I wonder why my previous post appeared all in small print ????
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Art Zoyd toured with Magma and some musicians have played with both bands. Their albums up to Phase IV have a strong Zeuhl influence, although this is less noticeable on more recent releases. They're considered Zeuhl on the Ork Alarm website, as are Univers Zero.
------------- 'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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Posted By: progreviews
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 15:59
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
I cna't find any online stores that deal with Eskatons 4 Visions or Magma's Christian Vander Wurdah Itah are those two CDs out of print or something? |
http://www.waysidemusic.com/ - Wayside Music has Wurdah Itah in stock for $16. Highly recommended, dependable vendor that I've been using for years. Unfortunately, the CD issue of 4 Visions is on the Swedish Ad Perpetuam Memoriam label, which is long-defunct and all their releases are long out of print. There have been some rumors that Soleil Zeuhl might eventually obtain the rights to it and reissue it again, but I'm not holding my breath.
------------- http://www.progreviews.com/">
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Posted By: Apsalar
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 17:15
My Zeuhl collection is looking far from complete at the moment
Does anybody know if Soleil Zeuhl is stocking DÜN - Eros at the moment? I have been trying to find this album for a while now. For some reason everytime I go on Soleil Zeuhls' site there seems to be some sort of error.
More along the lines of Japanese Zeuhl.. so to speak. Just a week ago picked put a CD by Keiji Hanio "New Rap". I felt impelled to buy it when I noticed it was a collaboration with Yoshida Tatsuya from Ruins. The CD had a lot of Zeuhl elements crossed with the Japanese noise scene. Upon searching on the internet, I found out Keiji Hanio has done some more collaborations with the whole Ruins outfit under the name "Knead".
I was just wondering whether anybody knows of this side project? What they sound like... do they stick with their Zeuhl roots?
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 17:24
Sean Trane wrote:
eugene wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
The groups I would avoid in Zeuhl are :
Runaway totem >> derivative , and increasingly sampled music as album go by
|
What album(s) you've got in mind??
I love their Tep Zepi, but not very much impressed by Zed (only two albums I've heard)
"Derivative" - ? - from who ???
And sometimes I doubt this band is Zeuhl....
|
Runaway Totem is definitely derivative of Magma. I have Zed at home and heard Tep Zepi and rented from the library the last album which is full of sampled instruments
As for Art Zoyd, their classic music sound (I speak of their 70's and early 80's albums) is very similar to Univers Zero, which gives a definite RIO genre, but if you listen closelu to AZ and UZ, and compare to Magma, you will see the obvious influences |
Thanks, Sean Trane, although I would not call them derivative, it explains your view on it.
------------- carefulwiththataxe
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Posted By: progreviews
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 17:25
Black Velvet wrote:
Does anybody know if Soleil Zeuhl is stocking DÜN - Eros at the moment? I have been trying to find this album for a while now. For some reason everytime I go on Soleil Zeuhls' site there seems to be some sort of error. |
Sigh... this makes three times in one day, but I'm going to keep plugging them until people start paying attention ... http://www.waysidemusic.com/ - Wayside Music has Eros in stock for $18.
Relatively cheap shipping outside the USA too, I believe.
------------- http://www.progreviews.com/">
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 17:26
Syzygy wrote:
eugene wrote:
Don't think Art Zoyd got anything to do with Zeuhl
|
Art Zoyd toured with Magma and some musicians have played with both bands. Their albums up to Phase IV have a strong Zeuhl influence, although this is less noticeable on more recent releases. They're considered Zeuhl on the Ork Alarm website, as are Univers Zero. |
Above explains as well, thanks, Syzygy.
------------- carefulwiththataxe
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Posted By: Apsalar
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 17:42
progreviews wrote:
Black Velvet wrote:
Does anybody know if Soleil Zeuhl is stocking DÜN - Eros at the moment? I have been trying to find this album for a while now. For some reason everytime I go on Soleil Zeuhls' site there seems to be some sort of error. |
Sigh... this makes three times in one day, but I'm going to keep plugging them until people start paying attention ... http://www.waysidemusic.com/ - Wayside Music has Eros in stock for $18.
Relatively cheap shipping outside the USA too, I believe. |
Sorry my mistake... thanks for the link
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Posted By: Explorer-eighth
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 19:10
Tonight, I have been listening to MAGMA'S UDU WUDU and I can appreciate it alot more now. This time, I listened to it on my DVD player connected to my old television set and so the sound was thinner and the treble and bass were better balanced. My CD player doesn't do justice to it with its excessive bass quality. I am pleased that I bought Udu Wudu now.
I then played MAGMA'S MEKANIK KOMMANDOH and it was too repetitive throughout most of it. It is in D major virtually all the way through and that is frustrating. There are some good moments such as the atmospheric opening section before the rhythmic theme begins.
I am now playing UNIVERS ZERO'S 1313 and again it sounds much better on my television. The first track is really chaotic until the slow section comes in, and the whole album is difficult music because there are so few melodies. I love the use of the harpsichord when it is used. My favourite track is "Malaise".
Yesterday, I played ART ZOYD'S MUSIQUE POUR L'ODYSEE and it is well worth anyone's money. It is very atmospheric and instruments that are not normally heard together blend together really well on this album. It is more varied than I'd remembered it being too.
There is a very high standard of musicianship on all these albums.
------------- The music I enjoy is complex; varied; deep and well played.
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 21:11
Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 22:43
progressive wrote:
Many aren't appeald by Magma's Üdü Wüdü, but why, why, why, why, why, o-why?
Tell me. I like it (partly, but in a hard way - partly very much).
Too avantgarde? No. Not "avantgarde". And why not to be avantgarde? Could it be avantgarde if everyone liked it - no.
Magma (not all, but most of it), Ruins (not all the punk parts), and Dün are amazing, and other zeuhl. It's very progressive, it's emotional, it's crazy. Oh, the drums, and what bass lines, and the high female vocals with low (and high:)) male growling, and the imaginated world (not the main idea), and the symphonism, heavier than anything and happy parts, aah. Though, Happy Family hasn't mesmerized me. .
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I'll Tell ya why. That horrid singing. I've always assumed all Magma was like that though. It is the most pretentious singing I have ever been offended by. To me it's the equivalent of bad acting. There may be nothing technically wrong with the vocals but he tries to hard to be scarey. Its like he's screaming "Oh look at me I am dark and forboding". Its way oversung. Like a child pretending to be a ghost. Anyway, that's why I dont like it. And of course those are only my opinions, I didnt mean to state them as fact.
Now on to my question... Is this type of overdramatic playacting style of singing done by all Zeuhl groups? I'm asking because the music intrigues me but there is no way I'm shelling out for another Magma album but I would like to try others. Dun maybe, they've come up in the thread a lot. Better yet are there any instrumental Zeuhl albums?
Thanks for your time.
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Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: June 14 2006 at 23:11
Eros by Dun is instrumental.
I have a question: I don't like the Magma songs, or any of the other Zeuhl that I've listened to (which is admittedly not very much), but I do like the Eros sample song. Would it be a wise purchase to explore this genre of prog? I'm trying to expand beyond my currently rather tame borders, while understanding that I'm probably never going to like some of the more agressively weird genres. The weirdest things I have are probably VdGG, experimental Floyd, and Zappa's jazz-rock works. Although that this CD must be bought from an online vendor besides Amazon (I trust WaySide Music, but still...) and that it's expensive does hamper my desire to buy it.
------------- "Never forget that the human race with technology is like an alcoholic with a barrel of wine."
Sleepytime Gorilla Museum: Because in their hearts, everyone secretly loves the Unabomber.
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Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: June 16 2006 at 21:15
Thanks Ghandi 2, I'll go listen to that in a sec. Weird that no one replied to us, I guess they don't want any zuehl converts this week :)
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: June 20 2006 at 06:17
Ghandi 2 wrote:
Eros by Dun is instrumental.
I have a question: I don't like the Magma songs, or any of the other Zeuhl that I've listened to (which is admittedly not very much), but I do like the Eros sample song. Would it be a wise purchase to explore this genre of prog? I'm trying to expand beyond my currently rather tame borders, while understanding that I'm probably never going to like some of the more agressively weird genres. The weirdest things I have are probably VdGG, experimental Floyd, and Zappa's jazz-rock works. Although that this CD must be bought from an online vendor besides Amazon (I trust WaySide Music, but still...) and that it's expensive does hamper my desire to buy it. |
Try some MP3's first but Dun does sound different from Magma in a lot of respects, if you love Jazz Fusion I'd strongly recommend it. I see you like Zappa's Jazz rock so yes I'd say from your taste in Zappa, if I were you I'd get Dun Eros .
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Posted By: OrionCrystalIce
Date Posted: June 20 2006 at 07:01
I want to get into some Zeuhl and have been trying to figure out which album to pick up....
I'm going to ask an oddly-specified question.... do any of these bands have anything that sounds like Devil Doll? Because as I read more and more descriptives, it seems to remind me a lot of 'The Girl Who Was Death', which I got rid of... not because it was odd, but the mood simply annoyed me and I felt it was disjointed even for the style. So that's what I DON'T want. I would like to venture into the very darkest the style has to offer, however.....so what would that be? '1313'? 'Kohntarkosz'? Right now I'm at a toss up between those two...
------------- black star, white light
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Posted By: Minimalist777
Date Posted: June 20 2006 at 10:46
I havent heard to much Zeuhl, but that which I have heard sounds not very much like Devil Doll.
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 20 2006 at 11:55
OrionCrystalIce wrote:
I want to get into some Zeuhl and have been trying to figure out which album to pick up....
I'm going to ask an oddly-specified question.... do any of these bands have anything that sounds like Devil Doll? Because as I read more and more descriptives, it seems to remind me a lot of 'The Girl Who Was Death', which I got rid of... not because it was odd, but the mood simply annoyed me and I felt it was disjointed even for the style. So that's what I DON'T want. I would like to venture into the very darkest the style has to offer, however.....so what would that be? '1313'? 'Kohntarkosz'? Right now I'm at a toss up between those two...
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Zeuhl ain't nothing like Devil Doll, matey. 1313 is a classic but if you want to really get to grips with Zeuhl you've got to start with Magma. And that means maybe not just going for "dark". Zeuhl is much more than just slightly evil sounding prog, y'know. It has many songs and albums of immesurable beauty and optimism too. MDK by Magma is a very very solid introduction into Zeuhl, I'd say. Kohntarkosz might be a bit of a slog.
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Posted By: XTChuck
Date Posted: June 20 2006 at 12:01
To Flyingsod: You hit the nail on the head comparing "that horrid singing" to bad acting.
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