Child In Time
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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22196
Printed Date: November 28 2024 at 08:09
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Topic: Child In Time
Posted By: chopper
Subject: Child In Time
Date Posted: April 23 2006 at 07:37
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I've just read kazimir's review of "Deep Purple In Rock" in which he accuses them of plagiarism by stealing "Child In Time" from a song called "Bombay Calling" by "It's A Beautiful Day". This is the first I've heard of it so I did a bit of digging. It seems that David LaFlamme of IABD pinched it from someone called Vince Wallace in the first place - see here for more details http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/gramophone/873/vince.html# (sorry the Insert Hyperlink button doesn't work any more). Deep Purple seemed to have acknowledged this themselves by releasing a DVD called "Bombay Calling" - anyone know any more about this? |
Replies:
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: April 23 2006 at 08:45
| It was quite common in the 60's that the bands "borrowed" stuff from other bands - this was and still is an important parameter for music to develop and evolve. The Beatles did it quite extensively. But it doesn't authorize someone to massacre an otherwise great album and give it such a bad rating. There are other, more proper means to express facts and fiction. Like starting this thread. |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: April 23 2006 at 10:12
| Even if it was stolen, the guitar solo and phenomenal vocals (especially on Made In Japan) make it unique. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: April 23 2006 at 11:50
if i hadn't have heard "bombay calling" i wouldn't have known, it literally jumped out at me. many musicians and writers get accused of plagiarism occasionally, most famously george harrison's "my sweet lord" ("he's so fine"-george lost the case), led zeppelin's "whole lotta love" (small faces "you need loving"), and the recent controversy over "the davinci code". many of them do it hoping they won't get caught!  -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: April 23 2006 at 21:04
It's actually kind of brings recognition to lesser known artist. I never would have heard of the band Spirit as early as I did if it weren't for rumors that Led Zeppelin copyied them in Stairway to Heaven.  -------------  
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mystic fred wrote:Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 24 2006 at 11:08
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Child in Time is Bombay Calling
but Lazy (from Machine Head is from Don And Dewey >> another ITBD song
However I was not aware of Black night being lifted
Blackmore is from the same generation than Page and they ripped-off quite a few tunes from others
Only Page hid it better when he did so ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: April 24 2006 at 11:43
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wow, never heard of this before
it's one of my favorites of all times... pity
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 26 2006 at 03:48
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The greatest artists "borrow". That is true for all of history - the trick is in adding your own touch of originality to ideas you've borrowed.
It's unlikely in the extreme for anyone to have a truly original idea - so you can still like "Child of Time"! ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: April 28 2006 at 13:24
| As said before on a separate thread, there has been mutual acknowledgements by Deep Purple (30th Anniversary In Rock CD remaster liner notes) and Its A Beautiful Day (the twoforone IABD/Marrying Maiden liner notes) of where Child In Time/Bombay Calling came from: Johanne Sebastian Bach, like many other early prog tunes - Ars Vita Brevis Longa Nice's pillage of Bach's Brandenberg Three, etc. Deep Purple admit they were turned on by IABD's version - and you can guarantee that Jon Lord who was studying musical theory as par tof his musical development at the time would have been studying the classical masters. |
Posted By: moodyxadi
Date Posted: April 28 2006 at 18:47
Actually it's not Lazy but Wring that neck - a song for the Deep Purple Mark I second album. However, it seems that Wring that neck was written before - at least was released befor It's a Beautiful Day second album, that is the album with Don and Dewey. But we can't use this kind of logic to Child in time, released after It's a beautiful day self-titled album.
I agree that "borrowing" ideas is part of developing music. The problem is that in Child in time crdits we have the names of the Purple members - only them. The same aplies to Wring that neck. So it's very unfair borowing somebody's idea, developing them and not citing himat least as the creator of the mlody that "inspired" you. that's my point.
PS: In Rock is one of the three best rock albums ever! ------------- Bach, Ma, Bros, Déia, Dante. |
Posted By: moodyxadi
Date Posted: April 28 2006 at 18:51
What Bach work was the font of the Child in time/Bombay Calling theme? I know some Bach and can't remeber without search what work was ripped off in this case. ------------- Bach, Ma, Bros, Déia, Dante. |
Posted By: moodyxadi
Date Posted: April 28 2006 at 21:45
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Well. I guess I've found the answer:
abou Child in time in http://www.thehighwaystar.com/rosas/discog/songs/songs_a-c.html - http://www.thehighwaystar.com/rosas/discog/songs/songs_a-c.html
Interesting note: Deep Purple admits to "borrowing" the beginning of Child In Time from It's A Beautiful Day's Bombay Calling. It's A Beautiful Day then used the tune of Wring That Neck for Don And Dewey on their Marrying Maiden album as a sort-of exchange.
On the musical side, there used to be this song Bombay Calling by a band called It's A Beautiful Day. It was fresh and original, when Jon was one day playing it on his keyboard. It sounded good, and we thought we'd play around with it, change it a bit and do something new keeping that as a base. - Ian Gillan, extract from a http://www.btinternet.com/~db.illustrations/review-files/mumbai-gillan-interview.htm - DPAS interview 3rd May 2002 ------------- Bach, Ma, Bros, Déia, Dante. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: April 29 2006 at 05:32
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I have tocorrect myself, checking back on my twofor one IABD CD, liner
notes are no more than track listings and band line-up details. SO now
I'll have to chewck out my source???? Apologies. - but certainly read in context of being stated by David LaFlamme with the CD reissue |
Posted By: S Lang
Date Posted: June 30 2006 at 06:46
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Yeah, we could go on forever, citing examples where musicians "borrowed" ideas from others. It's not pretty, but...
haven't you ever heard a tune on which you felt that you could make changes, improvements - at least in your mind?
For practicing musicians it must be hard to resist, but crediting the original composer, performer would be preferable, even if it affects royalties from the success.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 30 2006 at 08:58
Hear, hear!  I don't want to defend plagiarism in any way (if, indeed, we have a case of out-and-out plagiarism here), but it takes more than copying a few notes to really steal a song from another artist... What DP made with that song lifted it into world-class. |
Posted By: bsurmano
Date Posted: June 30 2006 at 16:51
 I've read kazimir review since it happens to be chronologically first after mine and I've been just waiting to se reaction on it (frankly, I've expected to see it earlier).'Deep Purple in Rock' album consists not only of 'Child In Time' track; there are also other songs which have made this album planetary popular not only at the time of its release but till nowadays. ------------- 'Sundown,yellow moon, I replay the past I know every scene by heart, they all went by so fast..... Either I'm too sensitive or else I'm gettin' soft.' Bob Dylan |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 30 2006 at 17:10
Actually, my reacton was earlier. This thread was started in April but someone resurrected it recently. |
Posted By: Billymac
Date Posted: June 30 2006 at 22:58
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Never mind the small faces "You Need Loving". I think JP "borrowed" the riff from an old Willie Dixon song. See link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Dixon
------------- 664 is the neighbour of the beast. |
Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 22:13
| Musically, "Child in Time" is a great song, however I believ the lyrics are bit immature, and finite, Ian Gillan could have sdone more with this tune lyrically |
Posted By: Minkia
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 18:07
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Kazimir is right and Deep Purple also ripped off the song 'We ain't got nothing Yet' by the Blue Magoos and turned it into their song 'Black Night'. Check it out! ------------- RELIGION IS HATE, RELIGION IS FEAR, RELIGION IS WAR,RELIGION IS RAPE, RELIGION'S OBSCENE,RELIGION'S A WHORE |
Posted By: Barla
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 13:27
Agree. Incredible, a touching song.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 01:02
The guitar solo! Living proof that God exists - and he's called Ritchie Blackmore! You missed me. guys, didn't you?  |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 11:18
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The intro was borrowed, but they lent Wring that Neck to It's a Beautiful Day and everything went well. The shameful ripoff was of Blues Magoo's song Ain't Got Nothing Yet. Black Knight is equal, except the lyrics. Led Zeppelin borrowed the guitar riff in the intro of Stairway to Heaven from a Spirit song Taurus, but no problems, since they constructed another song over the riff. Talking about Spirit, they could be added here... |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: July 27 2006 at 07:41
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The only good DP song i have ever heard and they dident even write it, why am i not surprised? DP may have been good players but they realy sucked at writing songs. ------------- 
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 27 2006 at 08:37
 This should be in the religion thread... filed under Blasphemy... Greg, where are you when a lady needs you?  *only joking, of course...* 
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Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: July 27 2006 at 08:48
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They All Steal:
Deep Purple - Highway Star -> Black Sabbath - Digital Bitch
Moby Grape - Never -> Led Zeppelin - Since I've Been Loving You
Little Richard - Good Golly Miss Molly -> Led Zeppelin - Boogie With Stu
Little Richard - Keep On Knockin' -> Led Zeppelin - Rock n Roll
No Prog examples, sorry
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Posted By: akin
Date Posted: July 27 2006 at 09:57
Jon Lord was a good composer. Check out Concerto for Group and Orchestra. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 27 2006 at 10:13
Ok! maybe Lazy is a recopying of Wring That Neck via the Don And Dewey track!
 Maybe purple had forgotten that this was their own tuine they were plagiarising
This might actually be why there was never any kind of trial between the two groups >> then Purple is clearly the winner on this deal
another blatant rip-off is Tull's Crossroads >>> lengthy solo in Sabbath's Iron Man ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: July 27 2006 at 10:20
I´m right here! (he shouts boldly)
But I´m completely stunned, that just is sooo untrue!
 Wasted Sunsets
Child in Time
Lazy
Anya
Burn etc etc etc.... equals fantastic song writing!!
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 30 2006 at 05:51
Thinking about this , this is simply impossible chronologically
Wring That neck is from 69, so is Don And Dewey
Bombay calling is from 68 and Child In Time from 70
So prior compensation for an offense yet to come is not likely!!!
  Whether Purple copied themselves from Wring That Neck is possible (but I do not hear it ) , but I do hear Don And Dewey in Lazy (72)------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 30 2006 at 12:31
Rock'n'Roll started out when John Bonham played the intro to a Little Richard song, but since it's pretty much a standard twelve bar, it rips off thousands of songs! As for Boogie with Stu, I think this is basically a cover of a Richie Valens song. I have heard it in the Valens biopic and on Physical Graffiti a "Mrs Valens" gets a credit for it along with Led Zep and the eponymous Ian Stewart. |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 18:17
Wring that neck is from 68 and Don and Dewey from 70. Bombay Calling is from 69 and Child in Time from 70. So it is absolute possible. Or maybe it was the contrary, but they exchanged the riffs. |