Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21610
Printed Date: March 12 2025 at 00:10
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Topic: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
Posted By: Sacred 22
Subject: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
Date Posted: April 11 2006 at 21:31
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It seems to me that if you have mastered 3 or 4 chord rock, and have managed to sell lots of albums to people who have been basically told to buy your albums by mainstream radio and TV, you will eventually get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Both YES and Genesis are not in the hall. Do they belong or should we and the bands in question really care? To me, it's kind of like a compliament that these two bands have not been inducted. What do you think? |
Replies:
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: April 11 2006 at 21:50
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I have increasingly mixed feelings about the Rock Hall. On the one hand, it's good that there's a place for influential (the key word, imho) popular musicians to be honored for their contributions. On the other hand, it's first and foremost a corporate entity, and frankly it shows. A lot of their choices for induction have been rather iffy, especially in recent years, while some truly influential artists are routinely skipped over (witness how long it took for them to induct Black Sabbath). Pink Floyd is the only "prog" band that I'm aware of that has made the cut. I wouldn't mind seeing a Rush or a Yes or a Jethro Tull get inducted, but since it's largely rock critics and industry people rather than fans who make the decisions, I don't see it happening very soon. That said, I've been to the museum a few times - I live about an hour from Cleveland - and it's not a bad tourist attraction. Just be advised that it ain't cheap.....
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: April 11 2006 at 21:54
Zappa is in the Hall. |
zappaholic wrote:Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: April 11 2006 at 21:57
Damn.
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
You're right, of course, and it did occur to me after I posted that he can be considered progressive (although I sort of consider him a genre unto himself.....).Posted By: stan the man
Date Posted: April 11 2006 at 22:04
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I am outraged that Rush isnt in the Hall of fame. They have followed all the criteria (albums sold, popularity, influence) O well i dont take it seriously because of the Sex pistols introduction and Jann Wenner (the biased ba$+3rd) running it. ------------- true as a lobster in a pteredaktyl's underpants. 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 11 2006 at 23:56
It's a truly dispicable institution. They had to induct Zappa because he was probably the single most amazing, widely-recognized musician in America. Jethro Tull should be inducted and it's a damn shame that Rush haven't been yet.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 00:25
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I agree with you, but like all of those institutions, corruption rears it's ugly head time and time again. The dumming down of America.................................................
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 00:33
Yes agreed there Sacred. I think it boils down to one thing - Money! I am of the view that Money speaks louder than talent. The more money an artist makes the more likely the Music Industry corporates will vote that artist into the hall of fame. Never mind how talented or influential the artist is. So the likes of Jethro Tull, Yes, ELP, King Crimson, Genesis and Rush will probably never see the light of day in the Hall of Fame. Perhaps a Prog Music Hall of Fame should be started up and this time in a country other than USA. ------------- 
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 01:14
To anyone who is paying attention, it's very obvious what is going on. Money is the KING. and we are all going to "hell" in a hand basket. Ah, but alas........................we don't want to become too convraversial here. Actually, you can use this as a very useful barrometer. What do you think? "Hi there, how are you, bla bla bla bla bla.................oh, by the way. What kind of music do you listen to? Oh, ok............that's nice. Well, be seeing you around. have a nice day"
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Posted By: mithrandir
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 01:47
| rock n roll hall of fame is for people who don't care about music, |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 08:26
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It's a great honour to NOT be included in the 'Hall of Fame' IMO. I know Floyd and Zappa are in there (Moody Blues??), there's exceptions to every rule, but by and large it's just for big big big artists that everyone from your dog to your grandmother has heard of. I dont know who decides who goes in there, but I can imagine the sort of cheesy excecutive types they are.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 08:55
No matter what we think of the Hall, it will be here long after we're gone like dust in the wind and I'd like for future generations to know about Genesis and Yes other than hearing them on the ancient oldies station. They are part of our history and should be recognized as such. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: White Queen
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 10:04
| It's important to remember that it is the "Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame" and not the "Prog Rock Hall of Fame". The average person going has probably not even heard of more than a couple prog bands. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 10:13
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The Rock Hall Of Shlock
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Posted By: AtlCatFan
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 12:11
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That is fine but I can't come up with a single criteria that excludes Rush. Record sales; gold records; influence; longevity; etc. Heck, stuff like Tom Sawyer is still appearing in soundtracks regularly and their tours are still playing before huge numbers of fans. Anyone who listens to classic rock knows the band as well as they know the Moody Blues. |
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 12:33
My take on it and I have thought about it a lot is that it is exactly what it says it is, nothing more and nothing less, rock and roll hall of fame. It doesn't say rock hall of fame or prog hall of fame. Prog is not the same as rock and roll and it's debatable that a lot of it even qualifies as rock. However, since Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull, Rush, Genesis and Kansas were all(and still are)played on classic rock radio stations there is no reason they shouldn't be in there especially if Pink Floyd and Frank Zappa are. Heck, even the Moody Blues aren't in there. Not sure about Queen though. It's true that it is very much run by music critics and music industry people(ie music snobs who mostly hate anything remotely related to prog)therefore we can't expect much. In a way the real award is to the musicians who are not in there. 
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 14:40
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well here's the list, some rock'n'roll, some soul, jazz, country, blues, hard rock, punk (????), one or two prog, though plenty of room in the future to include more! 1986 performers -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 20:35
It is called the hall of FAME, not the hall of QUALITY. prerequisites are fame and fortune, not a sense of melody or song writing ability. This is not to say that every band in the hall is bad, there are many good ones, especially ones who are in more for their influence on the rest of rock (i.e. talking heads, black sabbath) also note that in the post above, everyone is listed as "performers" not "artists". at least the distinction is made. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 20:44
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Not even the inventors of Heavy Metal are in the hall of fame (Black Sabbath, Deep Purple). -------------  
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 20:57
| It's simply a joke. |
Posted By: Tiresias
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 15:05
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I live in a Cleveland suburb as well. The rock hall has plenty of stuff from prog bands, but few have been inducted. PINK FLOYD ZAPPA TRAFFIC QUEEN this is about it. The Rock Hall features stuff such as Ian Anderson's flute, Keith Emerson's organ (of some nature), Some stuff from Rush, and some other things, but that's about it. If you've ever heard WNCX in Cleveland, you always hear Yes, Rush, Kansas, King Crimson (to a lesser extent), and Pink Floyd. I don't pay attention to the rock hall. ------------- Wh'ghal ng'fth mglw'y Ry'leh, Cthulhu fhtagn... 
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Posted By: lunaticviolist
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 15:35
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I've been to the museum itself, and I really enjoyed it. But the
induction process is terrible. The fans should have some vote on
who gets inducted. The number of mediocre groups in the Hall of
Fame is huge. They have no excuse not to induct Moody Blues or
King Crimson. ------------- My recent purchases: 
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Posted By: The Ryan
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 15:38
The world (And America) has always been "Stupid". Life will appear to be a little bit more dim or dumb in America because stupid people are now able to come to power. I wish we had qualified people deciding who gets into the Hall of Fame, but we don't, America is as smart as it always was, and so is every other country to be fair. |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 15:49
I find it incredibly ironic that you misused "it's" (the possessive of "it" is "its") and misspelled "dumbing" in your post. As a group, people are just as stupid in America as they are in any other country. Just look at the French riots (which, I believe, are still going on). People's stupidity bothers me too, but I hate it when people from other countries look down their noses and say "Oh, you stupid Americans." *cough*Greenday*cough* It wasn't any better in the past either; people never like to think for themselves or have to bother to pay attention to the world around them.
Why did you put prog in quotes? Pink Floyd is prog, no ifs ands or buts.
That's where you're wrong--Black Sabbath are being inducted this year. |
Posted By: lobster41
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 16:40
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The idea is a good one: honor those who made a difference to the direction of music throughout the years. When you look at the first three classes of inductees, I would not argue with a single one: Elvis, Beatles, Chuck Berry, Bill Haley, etc. Each of these artists was influential in changing the music of the time. So the first three classes got it right. As the hall got more popular, it became more politicized. I remember living in Akron at the time, and there was a tremendous debate as to why the induction ceremony took place in NYC instead of Cleveland. There was also debate as to whether there was racism in the inductions, because there were not enough non-Caucasian artists. So now the induction process becomes a process of political correctness. One of the reasons that Black Sabbath was kept out of the hall so long was due to the mention of Satan and other occult subjects in their music. Can't offend anyone! While all of us agree that Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, etc. were influential in creating a new form of music, they are the victims of the politics of the hall. Which brings me to my point. The same thing would happen if we started a prog rock hall. Or a prog rock site. We all agree on the founders: Genesis, Yes, Crimson, Tull, GG, VdGG, PF, etc. But over time... think Radiohead, Queen, etc. |
Posted By: Forkface
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 17:16
| When Paul Stanley of KISS was asked how he felt about not being inducted, he said "When you've sold 40 million records you are the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame." IMHO the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame will always be up the fans who support the bands and make them what they are, and not whats in a building in Cleveland. Come on, Blondie and not Genesis, or even Yes or Rush. This just proves how little The Hall of Fame board know about music fans and music in general, once you get away from the 'business" side. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 18:19
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have a look at the list, BLACK SABBATH were included this year.. ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: HeirToRuin
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 18:27
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I'm pretty sure that at least Yes will be inducted eventually.
------------- ARTEMIA - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic" rel="nofollow - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic L.i.E. - http://www.reverbnati |
Posted By: reality
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 19:54
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I am sorry, but I have to agree with most of the choices that the Hall of fame has chosen. If you look back at how some of those songs by these artists have changed peoples lifes, its the nostalgia that inducts them. Most people just do not listen to prog, not beacause they are "stupid" or do not appreciate "good music" it is because they like music that reflects thier lifes and has a different veiw of songcraft. Most people are just not immpressed by prog, and niether should they be if they look at the world from a different point of view. Alot of the (true) Pop and Rock on the list has so much more emotional and cultural importance(not to mention emotional and cultural complexity) than anything that prog has to offer. I love prog but some people have to lighten up and stop being fanboys all the time or no one will take us seriously! Come on, prog is good but it is not the saviour of music. Who should be on the list? Elp... Are you kidding me Jethro Tull... no Rush... yes (they grew out of being just a genre band) King crimson.. yes (Where most so called prog is not respected by music critics they are\were) Yes... Mabye but no Genesis (same comment as King Crimson) This post does not apply to the PA bands already inducted. They deserve to be where they are. |
Posted By: Zepology101
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 20:28
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 20:43
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Awards like this mean squat, the judges are just a hand full of people who pick pick bands not on quality of music but how much attention was drawn on them in pop culture, in some cases some musicians fit both eg Zappa. But take alook at the Doors they were nothing revolutionary, their music was very much of the time not too different from the Kinks, but because Jim Morrison was a pretty boy lived wild and died young (b4 wrinkles would ruin the chance of him being a legend). Its all about the rock and roll image, I guarantee that Nirvana (if it hasn't all ready) will get in because Kurt Cobain was a pretty boy who died young. When these awards talk about music they're really talking about the image and pop culture, how many kids wear tee-shirts or purchase posters with their hero on them. Its about idols not musicians. Also the hall of fame rock idols are too recent to judge, seriously whos going to remember the Jackson five in a 100 years time?, while, for example, in contrast Vincent Van Gogh only sold one painting in his lifetime but 100 years after his death he is one of the most celebrated artists. While in a newspaper I remember reading in 1999 a top ten poll of the publics choice of what were the greatist band in the 20th century on the top of the poll were the Spice girls and Oasis If you're all unhappy about invent your own awards, after all the judges of the hall of fame are just human beings like us (and obviously) know no better than us its just the pomp and glamour that surrounds it that makes it seem more important than it reallly is,the same goes for the oscars Anyway this is my 20th - 21st century music hall of fame: THE CHEESECAKEMOUSETRAP MUSIC HALL OF FAME (no idols just musicians, all genres examined, 100% honest no bribes taken) Stravinsky Miles Davis Frank Zappa Yes GENESIS MAGMA Stockhausen John Mclougchlin and Mahavisnu Orchestra King Crimson Mike Oldfield Can BRIAN ENO Soon to be inducted: VAN DER GRAFT GENERATOR,Ray Charles, Muddy Waters, Johnny Cash and perhaps the Beatles
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. This goes to show people are just uneducated about music and only consider those who contributed the most to music the ones with the most press, and this is reflected in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.Posted By: reality
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 20:54
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This is relevent to this discussion because I found this on the Rock n Roll Hall of fame website it is about Black Sabbath. The band’s musicality was generally overlooked, but they possessed an inventiveness and fluency that, in hindsight, makes them seem as much of a progressive-rock band as a heavy-metal one. Their lengthy songs had frequent meter changes, like the works of such peers as Jethro Tull (to which Iommi briefly belonged) and Yes (with whom Black Sabbath toured). There was ample room for improvisation, and Iommi, Butler and Ward were up to the task. In fact, Black Sabbath could swing with a jazzy temperament using bluesy forms and scales. Consider some of their influences: Drummer Ward grew up listening to Count Basie, bassist Butler had his head turned by http://www.rockhall.com/hof/inductee.asp?id=218 - Frank Zappa , guitarist Iommi found inspiration in gypsy-jazz guitarist Django Reinhardt...
Also about polls a leading british magizine polled thier readers about the best british album of all time, lets just say the then unreleased Artic Monkeys album out did Revolver from the Beatles. |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 21:28
OK, the dumbing down of human civilization, whether it be in America, Canada, or wherever. The point I am trying to make is that all too often talent is over-looked when it comes to deciding who will be inducted into this particular institution. So I ask, what is the criteria to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? If the people running the entertainment business decide what you will hear on mainsteam radio etc., then I get the feelling they are also the same people who decide who gets into these institutions.
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Posted By: reality
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 21:47
| I do not disagree with any of the inductees to the Hall of fame. I do disagree with some of the nominees that do not make it year after year (finaly Black Sabbath). There is also a big differance between Those on this list and Britney Spears or other manufactured board room music. |
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 22:06
As far as I know, the only hard-and-fast criterion is that it has to be at least 25 years since the artist or band's first commercially available recording. After that it's more or less up to the whim of the Rock Hall honchos.
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: grandoleopry
Date Posted: April 15 2006 at 22:30
Good thing Ozzy had a TV show or Sabbath would've never been inducted.  IMO, One thing seems to be true about the voting members; once they see the "masses" unified they always cave-in regardless of how they originally opposed a band's induction. ------------- Dreams. Gabor Szabo (1968) |
Posted By: Fusioned
Date Posted: April 15 2006 at 22:50
Totally agreed! Yes and Rush NEED to be in the hall. If I don't see Rush in there by 2010, I'll be pissed ------------- +FUSIONED+ 
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Posted By: Barla
Date Posted: April 16 2006 at 00:03
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Black Sabbath was added to the Hall the this year, I saw it on a VH1 special. But it's a shame that Genesis, Yes, Deep Purple, Jethro Tull and some more aren't there. |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: April 16 2006 at 21:40
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Another bias is that basically all artists come from English-speaking countries. When we talk about rock, many artists in several corners of the globe sold greatly and gave tremendous profits to the US recording industry but they aren't recognized. So the queue is longer:
------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |