There's definite reasonable misgivings about addressing potentially controversial subjects here (and I specifically mean "Discussions not related to Music" rather than the entire forum). Things like religion and politics, sexuality and drugs, loungewear and exotic cheeses. Are they the type of conversations that destroy happy homes? Or are they an inspiration for self-expression? Can we be trusted to handle heavy topics, or should we stick to music, drinking, and Mariah Carey?

Despite my tone, I'm serious about this. I'd like to get a real idea of everybody's position on this, and I'm willing to put my big fat mouth on the line...if a majority of the people say NO, I promise to refrain from any non-musical discussion henceforth . However, if we get a resounding YES result, I don't want to hear "that's inappropriate for this forum" again (except, of course, for obviously unreasonable, offensive, and inflammatory cases).

Absentee or provisional ballots may be obtained from your local election headquarters. Isn't democracy grand?

James:

Its an excellent question, and in theory we should be able to discuss what we want on the 'Discussions not related to music' page. I imagine everyone here is an advocate of free speech, I know I am.

However, my gut feeling is that this forum should only be used for music discussions and 'fun' threads. Someone posted something a while ago about the 'war on terror' I made some flippant remark about an aspect of it, and offended threefates quite badly. I felt quite bad about that and apologised, I have since resisted the temptation to contribute to the thread about the US elections etc, for fear of offending American contributors like yourself. I dont like falling out with people.

When I want to vent my wratth about politics I go to news forums and offend people there. They give as good as they get and expect to be challenged. I dont think folk around here visit this site for that reason.

That said if someone puts a specific question to me on a contraversial subject, I will reply with honesty, however contraversial my answer may seem to be.

James, I am happy to discuss politics,religion or any potentially contraversial topic in this section of the forum.

My problem with the drug addict story was that we were talking about a private individual not a rock star or politician or a forum member. Some of the posts were nasty and aggressive in a manner that would not be tolerated if it had been targeted at another forum member.

I dont want to have to go to another forum, and interact with another set of strangers every time I want to talk about things other than prog. We have a pretty good cross-section here, although the lady's are a tad outnumbered,and once you get used to who's who it can be fun.

The "discussions not related to music section" is our version of stress management. Anyone who doesnt want to get involved can just browse and not join in..

^ that's a good point. Just because someone is considered "news" doesn't necessarily make them a target for strangers' opinions. Well said!

oh, BTW we have almost 1000 people registered on the forum...I assume at least half of them are inactive, and at least half of the rest won't be likely to see it. But I would like more than a handful of responses to this poll, or I'll have to get Bill Clinton to call you up and remind you to vote! (hey, it happened to me on Nov. 2nd...pre-recorded, of course ).

James Lee wrote:  or I'll have to get Bill Clinton to call you up and remind you to vote! (hey, it happened to me on Nov. 2nd...pre-recorded, of course ).

I still have the one from Arnie saved during the recall voting in California. My daughter thought it was really cool to hear him on our phone.

I vote for yes, sure why not,anyone not intersted doesn't have to read it.

Even though I probably wouldnt get invloved in any serious discussions myself.

I'm of two minds on this important issue:

Yes, we're adults, and should be able to maturely discuss almost anything, but this is a music forum, and a nice "escape" for many of us. I don't want to always see/confront ugliness here. Even if I don't respond, I must read/peruse the contentious material first,to see what I'm not responding to.

Religious/political topics also have an enormous potential to degenerate into sl*gging matches, and cause people to leave in a huff. This has happened here before -- we lost (permanently) at least one great, funny, witty member this way.

Therefore, I voted "Yes, but keep it civil," but will people keep it civil, faced with a post that attacks not their favourite band, but their nation, culture, religion, sexuality, or morals?

The main problem with discussing volatile subjects in this format is the attacks that occur on the individual who has a different opinion then the majority. It's happened before. Don't call me or anyone else, stupid, ignorant or any other accusation that is hurtful and demeaning, especially on subjective issues. We do not all share the same perspective.

Generalizations are dangerous. Because I live in the US, doesn't mean I agree with every issue stereotyped as AMERICAN. I'm a man, a damn sexy one, according to my wife, and I have my own personal views on the world at large and how it affects me.

Keep it above board, no hitting below the belt. Discuss, don't attack. Support your claims or keep your mouth shut, or is that fingers to yourself?

danbo wrote: The main problem with discussing volatile subjects in this format is the attacks that occur on the individual who has a different opinion then the majority. It's happened before. Don't call me or anyone else, stupid, ignorant or any other accusation that is hurtful and demeaning, especially on subjective issues. We do not all share the same perspective. Generalizations are dangerous. Because I live in the US, doesn't mean I agree with every issue stereotyped as AMERICAN. I'm a man, a damn sexy one, according to my wife, and I have my own personal views on the world at large and how it affects me. Keep it above board, no hitting below the belt. Discuss, don't attack. Support your claims or keep your mouth shut, or is that fingers to yourself?

Surely this is one area where we can hit below the belt? Why not Dan? I'm happy to be ridiculed for living in a ridiculous society.Why is wrong to attack if we all concede that it is a likely outcome for posting in this area? Sometimes the only way to draw some emotional, genuine and informative opinions out of you lot is to attack you.Most of the people who post in this area are intelligent and eloquent enough to fight their corner. Obviously if the consensus is to keep it polite I will observe this (probably by not posting) but I think it would be a big mistake to move towards debating society rules.

No. Why bother. Why have an interesting conversation when we can go to Main Discussions and find out if The Knack was prog or not.

Thizz blooooozzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!

Reed Lover wrote: danbo wrote: The main problem with discussing volatile subjects in this format is the attacks that occur on the individual who has a different opinion then the majority. It's happened before. Don't call me or anyone else, stupid, ignorant or any other accusation that is hurtful and demeaning, especially on subjective issues. We do not all share the same perspective. Generalizations are dangerous. Because I live in the US, doesn't mean I agree with every issue stereotyped as AMERICAN. I'm a man, a damn sexy one, according to my wife, and I have my own personal views on the world at large and how it affects me. Keep it above board, no hitting below the belt. Discuss, don't attack. Support your claims or keep your mouth shut, or is that fingers to yourself? Surely this is one area where we can hit below the belt? Why not Dan? I'm happy to be ridiculed for living in a ridiculous society.Why is wrong to attack if we all concede that it is a likely outcome for posting in this area? Sometimes the only way to draw some emotional, genuine and informative opinions out of you lot is to attack you.Most of the people who post in this area are intelligent and eloquent enough to fight their corner. Obviously if the consensus is to keep it polite I will observe this (probably by not posting) but I think it would be a big mistake to move towards debating society rules.

Attack the issue, not the person. We all see things in a different light. There is no black and white when we talk about subjective topics. It appears this topic about whether we should engage in discussing world topics is somewhat volatile itself if we can't agree on the rules of debating to begin with.

   What is a "Serious Topic" ?  And why not support TOTAL ANARCHY !

_________

Lunar 

Danbo, you are making more of this than is necessary. I am not feeling highly emotional or volatile about this debate.   If the issue is inextricably linked to the authors view of it you cant attack one without the other.

I am not suggesting all out war or anything, but in the heat of an argument we should all be big enough to take "you're talking crap" on the chin.

I quote my previous post re "the rules:" "Obviously if the consensus is to keep it polite I will observe this "

In response to your "It appears this topic about whether we should engage in discussing world topics is somewhat volatile itself if we can't agree on the rules of debating to begin with." I quote my last post again:

"but I think it would be a big mistake to move towards debating society rules"

I see the 'Sure why not..' option is winning in the poll.

Which is good. In principle, but I'm inclined to agree with Peter. I would be surprised if the next discussion on here about religion or politics didn't degenerate into a verbal fight between at least few contributors.

So, the challenge is for someone now to start a new politics or religion based thread. Lets see how long it remains civil. BTW, I'm not choosing the topic. I dont want to light the fuse

It is not about lighting fuses it is about being passionate!!!!!!

Some of you are like babies. Civil this and civil that. Who defines what is civil ? If some of us are over-sentive,then offence will always be taken.

What a namby-pamby world we live in.....I say old boy that's a bit strong isnt it?

After you sir, no....after you! No sir, I must insist, you first Sir......................................................... ......!

Reed Lover wrote: It is not about lighting fuses it is about being passionate!!!!!! Some of you are like babies. Civil this and civil that. Who defines what is civil ? If some of us are over-sentive,then offence will always be taken. What a namby-pamby world we live in.....I say old boy that's a bit strong isnt it? After you sir, no....after you! No sir, I must insist, you first Sir......................................................... ......!

In that case:

Get the F*** out of the way!!!!!

Is that better Reed? 

threefates wrote: Intense discussion can be good for the soul sometimes...

I agree. But some people are not able to be disagreed with, and resort to being offensive.

Blacksword wrote: threefates wrote: Intense discussion can be good for the soul sometimes... I agree. But some people are not able to be disagreed with, and resort to being offensive.

Also the ones that are replying with humor are mistaken because of the ones you mention.  It makes it difficult not to lash back or question then the whole point of the humor is missed.

We can agree to disagree, not a prob, Bob.

Just don't call someone a f**king asshole because they have an opinion that differs with yours.  

Let's open the flood gates. Bring it on. Swing the daisy, wag the dog.... Is it beer time yet?  

Let's get all James Lee on each other and bar the doors.... DADDY's home.

Of the responses so far, Peter's has summarised my own views best. I'd prefer to keep religion, politics etc. out of it. As has been suggested already, there are too many people who become rude/intolerant/abusive when those subjects come up.

As an aside, I think this thread highlights the need for a good, relevant, thread name. I hadn't looked at it till now, on the assumption it was to do with TV! Others may be avoiding it for the same reason unaware of its relevance (or there again it might just be me!)

  Not to be too "pedantic," but this poll (and some of the subsequent posts) takes the position that one can simply "choose not to read" offensive material. The problem with this, of course, is that I don't know if the material is offensive or not, until I read it.

Let's assume it is offensive (it happens). Of course, I CAN choose not to respond, but now I have read the offensive material, now my dander is up, and now I am likely to respond in kind, and escalate the situation. Insults get traded, someone leaves. (I miss you, Stormcrow.)

All I'm asking is that people think before they post, much as we should think before we speak. If you really don't give a damn how many enemies you make in this life, by all means, blaze away, but if you do care about such things, and the feelings of others (even disembodied strangers with pseudonyms on a web forum) then "put brain in gear before engaging mouth" -- or finger.

That being said, if I'm constantly confronted with fighting, insults, and/or offensive material from the web when I come to this forum (and I'm not, by a long shot), I will just leave -- as will many others. (Apparently, this is often a big problem at other forums -- I wouldn't know, as Prog Archives is my first, and only. Does that make me monprogamous?)

As I've said elsewhere before, this stuff goes worldwide, (and represents this site, like it or not) so if you wouldn't say it for all to hear on a crowded bus, or in a crowded bar, why say it here? If you wouldn't say it to my face, don't write it to me either.

Is that such a "Big-Brotherly," pro-censorship position? I think NOT.

As Danbo rightly implies, it's not so much WHAT you say, as HOW you say it.

"I don't like the prevalence of handguns in America, and the official Republican party stance on the issue"  is surely less offensive than "Americans -- especially Danbo and Gdub -- are all a bunch of knuckle-dragging, slope-browed, bloodthirsty, gun-toting, shoot first- ask questions later, amoral degenerates."

Americans -- especially Danbo and Gdub -- are all a bunch of knuckle-dragging, slope-browed, bloodthirsty, gun-toting, shoot first- ask questions later, amoral degenerates."

many a true word spoke in jest?

danbo wrote: We can agree to disagree, not a prob, Bob. Just don't call someone a f**king asshole because they have an opinion that differs with yours.   Let's open the flood gates. Bring it on. Swing the daisy, wag the dog.... Is it beer time yet?   Let's get all James Lee on each other and bar the doors.... DADDY's home.

I got all of that except...swing the daisy???

BTW: no more TV mistakes- poll name is changed. I respond to constructive criticism

Reed Lover wrote: Americans -- especially Danbo and Gdub -- are all a bunch of knuckle-dragging, slope-browed, bloodthirsty, gun-toting, shoot first- ask questions later, amoral degenerates." many a true word spoke in jest?

Reed!!!!

Thats how it starts, dude! That is whats known as lighting the the fuse. You make a comment in jest, and go on to invalidate any humour by implying that this is your actual belief, and not a joke. One rule that must be observed is not to generalise about an entire nation of people.

Unless its France....I'm joking. NO, I really am joking please believe me!!

12 Ways to Lighten up

Approaching your life with a non-serious attitude gives you a clearheaded view of problems and the energy to deal with them. Problems are easier to solve, people are more cooperative and you feel more relaxed. You probably live longer as well.

Think of your life as a game. Give yourself permission to play the game, to have fun with the game, and to win.

Try these techniques until you find one that lightens you up.

1. Deliberately turn a molehill into a mountain. Make a big deal out of a little problem. "I would feel much better if these papers were stacked exactly like this! Not like that! Like this! Not this! This!"

2. Ask yourself, "Is getting serious about this situation really going to improve it?"

3. Focusing on the positives. Repeat these questions until you feel lighter, "What is right about this picture?" "What else is right?" "What else?"

4. Consider a complete, major change. Why not become an airline pilot? Why not move to Idaho? Why not retire for a few years and then begin a new career?

5. Ask yourself, "When I’m on my deathbed, will I be glad I was so serious about _______?"

6. A challenging game is much better than no game at all. So consider losing all aspects of the problem. Examples: You feel serious about family problems. You ask yourself, "Well, what if I had no family at all?" You feel serious about your investments. You ask yourself, "What if I had no money to invest?"

7. The size of your problem may match the size of your game. So get a bigger game. For example, if you get uptight about paper clips being in the wrong drawer, your game size is tiny. Double your amount of responsibility. Set some huge goals. Think much, much bigger.

8. Stop trying to solve the problem that is making you so serious. Certain types of problems solve themselves if you leave them alone. Your problem may be one of those.

9. Compare what you are doing to other careers. Imagine being a septic tank drainer or an IRS agent.

10. Make everyone around you lighten up. You will soon feel more cheerful.

11. Look at bizarre solutions. What is the craziest way you could solve your problem? What solution, if it worked, would make you laugh out loud?

12. Act stupid for a minute. Let down your hair. Stop being so darn important for a while. Be a goof!

threefates wrote: Intense discussion can be good for the soul sometimes...

..and helps clear the bowels.

Jim Garten wrote: that silly Swedish person wrote: Act stupid for a minute How many minutes are there in 41 years exactly????

21,549,600

Time for a lot of stupidity, I think..

James Lee wrote: Let's open the flood gates. Bring it on. Swing the daisy, wag the dog.... Is it beer time yet?   Let's get all James Lee on each other and bar the doors.... DADDY's home.

I got all of that except...swing the daisy??? [/QUOTE]

The original Air-Freshener. Totally lost on ya? That's good. Get 'er Done!

Blacksword wrote: Reed Lover wrote: Americans -- especially Danbo and Gdub -- are all a bunch of knuckle-dragging, slope-browed, bloodthirsty, gun-toting, shoot first- ask questions later, amoral degenerates." many a true word spoke in jest? Reed!!!! Thats how it starts, dude!

I didn't say it! It was that sh*t-stirring Canuck. He hates you all really-he told me. Least I think it is him- every time I think nasty posts he appears on my shoulder, in a pansy dress with wings and a halo and says "be nice Reed-I know they are all hateful thick-headed knuckle-draggers but be civil.They are but lesser mortals than you and I "

Honest. He did do that!

Velvetclown wrote: Thanks Jim for being PC : " that silly Swedish person"  had you said that silly Swedish man I had been

 Your "manhood" has yet to be ascertained, Velvie sweetie....

Peter Rideout wrote: Velvetclown wrote: Thanks Jim for being PC : " that silly Swedish person"  had you said that silly Swedish man I had been    Your "manhood" has yet to be ascertained, Velvie sweetie....

Not just Velvie......

James Lee wrote: BTW: no more TV mistakes- poll name is changed. I respond to constructive criticism

Probably was just me James!

^ don't bee-lieve everything you read. When I scoll over that picture I get a message saying it has errors and cannot be displayed.

It's pretty appropriate that even VC's hyperlinks have double-entendres