Yes, they matter a lot to me, though not as much as the music.

Really poor/offensive lyrics will cause me to avoid the song or band altogether (as with much metal and hip hip).

I am highly language oriented, in any case.

Ounamahl wrote: "The music’s more important but good lyrics matter too."

Ditto. The music comes first, but lyrics can do a lot. I like intelligent lyrics, and sometimes I do miss some sort of Bob Dylan in prog. Great lyricists are around (e.g. Geoff Mann, Peter Hammill, Roger Waters) but not many.

I especially hate it when some good music is butchered because the main man couldn't write decent lyrics. With early Pendragon for instance. The Jewel shows Barrett's musical talents, but some of the lyrics... "Lead me, lead me, take me down, take me down, cry, don't cry, long standing hypocrites, you burned the candle at both ends, reality, reflections in my mind". Completely crazy and very annoying, but I keep listening to early Pendragon, because I really like the music. I listen to it more than to Bob Dylan, who has much better lyrics without a doubt.

It depends obviously on what the artists are trying to convey, Tangerine dream try to create a particular atmosphere with their music, If the composers can create a composition as interesting and with a balance between predictable and unpredictable twists just like a novel tries to do then so be it,

Other artists need the use of lyrics to present their message because with music it just isn't enough

The music’s more important but good lyrics matter too.

Sometimes they are important.

Im paying attention to the lyrics of the new Flower Kings album and realized that they are dark as hell!! Very unexpected indeed!

You get an attack on the music industry in hit me with a hit (cool title), evilness of men in the epic (maybe as in terrorism from islamic fundamentalism, im not sure yet), Suicide in Selfconsuming Fire, a dying child in Mommy leave the light on, NAZI criminals' view in Bavarian Skies, The Devil being jealous, and "Lucy Has a Dream" also sounds dark lyrically but Im trying to interpret it. That's only the 1st disc.

Anyways, I won't see them the same way as before now that I know what the songs are about.

I voted that good lyrics are important too.

Lyrics (along with the singers vocalizations) can provide imagery which enhance the listening experience and help give relevance to (and/or connect) musical passages.

Great lyrics along with a great singer can really make music come alive. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy instrumental pieces as well. I even listen to quite a bit of music were I cannot understand the singer (language barrier - ie. LE ORME Felona e Sorona).

But I love great vocals,

and great vocals with great lyrics - too good.

I can't imagine The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway as an instrumental!

Here's something to think about! The lyrics on Tales From Topographic Oceans are some of my favourite, And will remain that way for a long time, In fact, Here's what my gravestone will read -

"Wait all the more regard your past
School gates remind us of our class
Chase all confusion away with us"

Just thought I'd say  So lyrics are very important once they 'stike a chord' with me.

Moogtron III wrote: Ounamahl wrote: "The music’s more important but good lyrics matter too." Ditto. The music comes first, but lyrics can do a lot. I like intelligent lyrics, and sometimes I do miss some sort of Bob Dylan in prog. Great lyricists are around (e.g. Geoff Mann, Peter Hammill, Roger Waters) but not many. I especially hate it when some good music is butchered because the main man couldn't write decent lyrics. With early Pendragon for instance. The Jewel shows Barrett's musical talents, but some of the lyrics... "Lead me, lead me, take me down, take me down, cry, don't cry, long standing hypocrites, you burned the candle at both ends, reality, reflections in my mind". Completely crazy and very annoying, but I keep listening to early Pendragon, because I really like the music. I listen to it more than to Bob Dylan, who has much better lyrics without a doubt.

I have always found that lyrics most are important only to lead singers.

No but really, I wanted to reinterate your point about Bob Dylan. I think that there are many good lyricists in prog but even some of its best like Hammill and Waters often have lines in a song that are just not good and stick out like a sore thumb. Welcome to the Machine is a good example.

I think this is such a mixture of brilliance and the the mundane. Notice the good lines don't rhyme.

ken4musiq wrote: Moogtron III wrote: Ounamahl wrote: "The music’s more important but good lyrics matter too." Ditto. The music comes first, but lyrics can do a lot. I like intelligent lyrics, and sometimes I do miss some sort of Bob Dylan in prog. Great lyricists are around (e.g. Geoff Mann, Peter Hammill, Roger Waters) but not many. I especially hate it when some good music is butchered because the main man couldn't write decent lyrics. With early Pendragon for instance. The Jewel shows Barrett's musical talents, but some of the lyrics... "Lead me, lead me, take me down, take me down, cry, don't cry, long standing hypocrites, you burned the candle at both ends, reality, reflections in my mind". Completely crazy and very annoying, but I keep listening to early Pendragon, because I really like the music. I listen to it more than to Bob Dylan, who has much better lyrics without a doubt.   I have always found that lyrics most are important only to lead singers. No but really, I wanted to reinterate your point about Bob Dylan. I think that there are many good lyricists in prog but even some of its best like Hammill and Waters often have lines in a song that are just not good and stick out like a sore thumb. Welcome to the Machine is a good example. You bought a guitar to punish your ma, medicore line but people like it And you didn't like school, and you know you're nobody's fool, dumb line and really dumb rhyme It sticks out like a line there just to rhyme So welcome to the machine. Welcome my son, welcome to the machine. classic line A+ What did you dream? It's alright we told you what to dream. classic line A+ I think this is such a mixture of brilliance and the the mundane. Notice the good lines don't rhyme.

You do have a point there.

Still, I do miss good lyricists in prog. There are too little of them.

Tuzvihar wrote: eugene wrote: I mostly care about music, good lyrics are bonus. I concur. I enjoy, for example, Ulver and Omega a lot although I know neither Norwegian nor Hungarian.

It's strange that you mention Ulver in such context, as I've been listening to Marriage Of Heaven And Hell, and the lyrics written by William Blake and sung by Garm are what makes the message and the music more meaningful.

I didn't vote, because I think that the 'Other' option would be more suitable in this situation:

Lyrics, together with the right vocals, are supposed to be just a part of the music, much like any other "real" instrument - they create moods, atmosphere and help to get the point across.

 -- Ivan

Ounamahl wrote: "The music’s more important but good lyrics matter too."

And Paul K. is right too...

eugene wrote: I mostly care about music, good lyrics are bonus.

Yes, this is basically my opinion as well. Good lyrics are always nice, but as long as they are not offensive or unbearably stupid, and the vocal tone, melodies, and harmonies are pleasing, I am okay with it. I don't think many of the groups I listen to are poor lyricists though.

It is an interesting question. To those who say the lyrics are important, can I ask, does that mean you only listen to music in languages with which you are conversant? For example, if like myself you do not speak Italian, do you ignore Italian prog?

If the answer to that is no (you don't ignore foreign languages), do you obtain translations of the lyrics? Further, is your enjoyment of the music diminished if the lyrics are in a language which is foreign to you?

I feel in the right meddle!

...anyway music is the most important thing, but it could be improved by good lyrics...

...I mean...if a great piece of music have bed lyrics, it's a great piece of music, but if the lyrics are great too it becomes something more than great...a masterpiece!

Easy Livin wrote: It is an interesting question. To those who say the lyrics are important, can I ask, does that mean you only listen to music in languages with which you are conversant? For example, if like myself you do not speak Italian, do you ignore Italian prog? If the answer to that is no (you don't ignore foreign languages), do you obtain translations of the lyrics? Further, is your enjoyment of the music diminished if the lyrics are in a language which is foreign to you?

Lyrics are important to me as an instrument, meaning that even if I don't understand the lyrics, they still kind of make sense and supply with the right emotions, which the listener "gets" regardless of whether it is in his native language or not. Moreover, it should be added that even if the listener understands the lyrics, he may interpret them in his own, incorrect way. Just look at the people trying to decipher Maynard's or, say, Aaron's(MDB)lyrics.

Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso is my favourite Italian prog group and one of the reason  for that is the vocals. I can't understand Italian, however, I remember some lines in my head and I always feel comfortable because I tend to think that they fit the music very well.

 -- Ivan

Well, I'm from Spain and I've always listened 99% to English or American music. While I can read English almost perfectly, for understanding spoken English I need people to speak slowly and clear. Because of that I only understand English vocals "at real time" ocasionally. I need to pay attention and after repeated listens I usually understand 80% of the lyrics, but in that process I pay much more attention at music itself and I don't mind the lyrics that much. For that reason the lyrics never change my opinion about a song or an album. Maybe when I notice their meaning they seem to me silly but if music is good, the song is good for me. Lyrics are an additional content for me, and I usually enjoy them later (essentially reading them) or forget about them If they are not good. But that never lowers the quality of the music .

ivansfr0st wrote: Easy Livin wrote: It is an interesting question. To those who say the lyrics are important, can I ask, does that mean you only listen to music in languages with which you are conversant? For example, if like myself you do not speak Italian, do you ignore Italian prog? If the answer to that is no (you don't ignore foreign languages), do you obtain translations of the lyrics? Further, is your enjoyment of the music diminished if the lyrics are in a language which is foreign to you? Lyrics are important to me as an instrument, meaning that even if I don't understand the lyrics, they still kind of make sense and supply with the right emotions, which the listener "gets" regardless of whether it is in his native language or not. Moreover, it should be added that even if the listener understands the lyrics, he may interpret them in his own, incorrect way. Just look at the people trying to decipher Maynard's or, say, Aaron's(MDB)lyrics. Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso is my favourite Italian prog group and one of the reason  for that is the vocals. I can't understand Italian, however, I remember some lines in my head and I always feel comfortable because I tend to think that they fit the music very well.  -- Ivan

I think, Ivan, you are missing the point here. "Lyrics" in this poll means "text of songs", I guess; but you are talking about vocals rather than lyrics, and Easy Livin made quite a valid point...

Banco is my favorite Italian band, and vocals of Francesco DiGiacomo are just amazing. I was so hooked on them that I ordered translation of Darwin!, but think could easily live without it as well...

Easy Livin wrote: It is an interesting question. To those who say the lyrics are important, can I ask, does that mean you only listen to music in languages with which you are conversant? For example, if like myself you do not speak Italian, do you ignore Italian prog? If the answer to that is no (you don't ignore foreign languages), do you obtain translations of the lyrics? Further, is your enjoyment of the music diminished if the lyrics are in a language which is foreign to you?

I would say for me the answer is yes because one of the big treats in prog is sitting down with the lyrics and coming to an understanding of what the song is about. I do listen to some Italian prog  and do prefer to get translations though I can understand a little Italian. That is a recent development though, probably because I listen to so much instrumental music separate from prog.

eddietrooper wrote: Well, I'm from Spain and I've always listened 99% to English or American music. While I can read English almost perfectly, for understanding spoken English I need people to speak slowly and clear. Because of that I only understand English vocals "at real time" ocasionally. I need to pay attention and after repeated listens I usually understand 80% of the lyrics, but in that process I pay much more attention at music itself and I don't mind the lyrics that much. For that reason the lyrics never change my opinion about a song or an album. Maybe when I notice their meaning they seem to me silly but if music is good, the song is good for me. Lyrics are an additional content for me, and I usually enjoy them later (essentially reading them) or forget about them If they are not good. But that never lowers the quality of the music .

As a none native speaker, does the english lanauge really resonate or sound good when you listen to it without knowing its meaning?

Lyrics are equally important as the music.

Cant immagine Thick as a Brick with diffirent lyrics to it. 

very brilliant!

ken4musiq wrote: eddietrooper wrote: Well, I'm from Spain and I've always listened 99% to English or American music. While I can read English almost perfectly, for understanding spoken English I need people to speak slowly and clear. Because of that I only understand English vocals "at real time" ocasionally. I need to pay attention and after repeated listens I usually understand 80% of the lyrics, but in that process I pay much more attention at music itself and I don't mind the lyrics that much. For that reason the lyrics never change my opinion about a song or an album. Maybe when I notice their meaning they seem to me silly but if music is good, the song is good for me. Lyrics are an additional content for me, and I usually enjoy them later (essentially reading them) or forget about them If they are not good. But that never lowers the quality of the music .   As a none native speaker, does the english lanauge really resonate or sound good when you listen to it without knowing its meaning?

Of course. In fact IMO Spanish rock music doesn't get to sound as "authentic" as English one because of the language. We are so used to hear the English words in rock music that Spanish ones doesn't really fit that well. And you must notice that I actually know almost every word in English, and so they doesn't really sound bad to me. The problem is that I need a mental process to catch and understand the full lyrics, and that process is not as quick as the music itself. Sometimes I can follow the lyrics and sometimes I can't or I do it on repeated listens, but English words always sound like "rock music words" for me anyway. I actually don't like to listen to music in other languages(Italian, Polish, etc). Rock music that is not in English simply doesn't sounds to me the same.

^^^Good point. I think lyrics are vital to a song for all reasons that are stated above. But even if you can't understand the language, the human voice still acts as a wonderful instrument.

Empathy wrote: The music's more important, but bad lyrics can ruin reasonably good music. However, if the lyrics are _intended_ to be abstract, or even absurdist, I'm fine with that.

My views exacterly. I find it hard to get worked up about lyrics (very rarely do I think they add much to music) but clunky, cliche lyrics can really grate. Anyway, I'm sure 100 other people have already said this, but this is the first chance I've had to reply since I made this thread.

eugene wrote: ivansfr0st wrote: Easy Livin wrote: It is an interesting question. To those who say the lyrics are important, can I ask, does that mean you only listen to music in languages with which you are conversant? For example, if like myself you do not speak Italian, do you ignore Italian prog? If the answer to that is no (you don't ignore foreign languages), do you obtain translations of the lyrics? Further, is your enjoyment of the music diminished if the lyrics are in a language which is foreign to you? Lyrics are important to me as an instrument, meaning that even if I don't understand the lyrics, they still kind of make sense and supply with the right emotions, which the listener "gets" regardless of whether it is in his native language or not. Moreover, it should be added that even if the listener understands the lyrics, he may interpret them in his own, incorrect way. Just look at the people trying to decipher Maynard's or, say, Aaron's(MDB)lyrics. Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso is my favourite Italian prog group and one of the reason  for that is the vocals. I can't understand Italian, however, I remember some lines in my head and I always feel comfortable because I tend to think that they fit the music very well.  -- Ivan I think, Ivan, you are missing the point here. "Lyrics" in this poll means "text of songs", I guess; but you are talking about vocals rather than lyrics, and Easy Livin made quite a valid point... Banco is my favorite Italian band, and vocals of Francesco DiGiacomo are just amazing. I was so hooked on them that I ordered translation of Darwin!, but think could easily live without it as well...

I don't think I'm missing the point, it's just my opinion on what "lyrics" are. Studying English only as the third language, I sometimes can't understand even the more "audible" British singers, because it is not my native language. However, what I mean is that by "lyrics" I mean not just words, phrases, sentences, texts with meanings, but instead "sounds" - not notes - but sounds of human languages. Let's say, somebody writes a song in a language that doesn't exist, meaning that *no* listener can understand the words, but he can get the message as emotions. Basically, to sum it up, by vocals I mean the actual notes, the "letters" of music, but the actual "letters" are different and the whole pronouncation matters.

An obscure idea, I know, and I'm really tired so it sounds too chaotic to understand.

Invite a blues singer to sing Cannibal Corpse lyrics and you'll see it doesn't fit.

 -- Ivan

ivansfr0st wrote: eugene wrote: ivansfr0st wrote: Easy Livin wrote: It is an interesting question. To those who say the lyrics are important, can I ask, does that mean you only listen to music in languages with which you are conversant? For example, if like myself you do not speak Italian, do you ignore Italian prog? If the answer to that is no (you don't ignore foreign languages), do you obtain translations of the lyrics? Further, is your enjoyment of the music diminished if the lyrics are in a language which is foreign to you? Lyrics are important to me as an instrument, meaning that even if I don't understand the lyrics, they still kind of make sense and supply with the right emotions, which the listener "gets" regardless of whether it is in his native language or not. Moreover, it should be added that even if the listener understands the lyrics, he may interpret them in his own, incorrect way. Just look at the people trying to decipher Maynard's or, say, Aaron's(MDB)lyrics. Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso is my favourite Italian prog group and one of the reason  for that is the vocals. I can't understand Italian, however, I remember some lines in my head and I always feel comfortable because I tend to think that they fit the music very well.  -- Ivan I think, Ivan, you are missing the point here. "Lyrics" in this poll means "text of songs", I guess; but you are talking about vocals rather than lyrics, and Easy Livin made quite a valid point... Banco is my favorite Italian band, and vocals of Francesco DiGiacomo are just amazing. I was so hooked on them that I ordered translation of Darwin!, but think could easily live without it as well... I don't think I'm missing the point, it's just my opinion on what "lyrics" are. Studying English only as the third language, I sometimes can't understand even the more "audible" British singers, because it is not my native language. However, what I mean is that by "lyrics" I mean not just words, phrases, sentences, texts with meanings, but instead "sounds" - not notes - but sounds of human languages. Let's say, somebody writes a song in a language that doesn't exist, meaning that *no* listener can understand the words, but he can get the message as emotions. Basically, to sum it up, by vocals I mean the actual notes, the "letters" of music, but the actual "letters" are different and the whole pronouncation matters. An obscure idea, I know, and I'm really tired so it sounds too chaotic to understand. Invite a blues singer to sing Cannibal Corpse lyrics and you'll see it doesn't fit.  -- Ivan

Can you say Zeuhl!

I agree with Ivan. As I stated earlier in this thread...

Great lyrics along with a great singer can really make music come alive. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy instrumental pieces as well. I even listen to quite a bit of music were I cannot understand the singer (language barrier - ie. LE ORME Felona e Sorona).

Mmm...of course music is the whole point, the goal is to make good pieces of music for the ear to listen, to sound enjoyable. Nevertheless, lyrics can be HUGE. If you like the music it is ok. Then, you'll start diggin' into the lyrics: "I love the song, but I don't know what it means. Maybe I'll try to understand the lyrics and I'll love the song even more"

At least that happens to me. At first I listen to the music. Then if the vocals are alright I read the lyrics(because i do not always understand them by ear) and the result is that I find the son more enjoyable than before.

It is a matter of choice. Some stick with the music and that's it. OK. Some just don't have enough with the music and dig into the lyrics. OK. That's what is beautiful about listening to music!!

I love Pettrucci's lyrics, by the way.

eddietrooper wrote: [

Of course. In fact IMO Spanish rock music doesn't get to sound as "authentic" as English one because of the language. We are so used to hear the English words in rock music that Spanish ones doesn't really fit that well. And you must notice that I actually know almost every word in English, and so they doesn't really sound bad to me. The problem is that I need a mental process to catch and understand the full lyrics, and that process is not as quick as the music itself. Sometimes I can follow the lyrics and sometimes I can't or I do it on repeated listens, but English words always sound like "rock music words" for me anyway. I actually don't like to listen to music in other languages(Italian, Polish, etc). Rock music that is not in English simply doesn't sounds to me the same.

[/QUOTE]

It's good to know English is a nice sounding language. By the way, even native English speakers can't follow the words when they are moving by really quickly.  You are not alone.

I pretty much need good music and vocals...although I am more forgiving with vocals than music.

Arent vocals music?

well, i do not really care about the lyrics. i consider them be o0ne more instrument - so there should be a good voice and mice voice melody.

although, i love floyd or genesis, for example, at 30-40% for their great lyrics (and vdgg too)