People are desensitized to the stupidity of programs such as MTV, their friends, and radio. At least in America this is the way it is and has been for a few decades, there's no real structure to the music industry, everybody popular is a one hit wonder. Every kid has a new favorite band every two weeks, and that is a sad story. When I'm in the car with a friend, he or she will consistently spend 1 minute, maybe 2, on a song then move on to another station/song. Usually songs are three minutes, or 3:30, people aren't even finishing listening their music!!! It's almost like the teenagers of today are subconsciously not enjoying what they are listening to, yet cannot realize this fact. Almost everyone I know does this, unless they listen to classic rock... or some form of Alice in chains/Soundgarden/Tool/etc because virtually all other music today is simply dull and far too monotonous. What I don't understand is why people cannot figure out that with a little bit of patience (even if they will never like prog), there's a world of quality music out there waiting for them and always has been for the past 90 years plus. It's almost a matter of trying to be "not cool" at this point in some strange way, but not exactly.

People who can't TRY Prog make me sick, people who don't like prog for good reason I understand.

Lucky for me I was the part of generation who listen to prog.

In a highschool everybody was listening to Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd

Few were listening to bit harder bands like: VDGG, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Zappa

Everybody liked: Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin , Jethro tull.

Who was once listening to prog in youth keeps hooked for life.

I feel sorry for today's generation (my two sons included), because the music industry produces more and more of brainless music, to make more money, because every generation has to have their own idols.

Fusioned wrote:   But as I sit here listening to Yes - Close to the Edge I think to myself....how can someone hate this song? Music will never get any better than this. Ever.

I don't like CttE

Fusioned wrote: Pafnutij wrote: Fusioned wrote:   But as I sit here listening to Yes - Close to the Edge I think to myself....how can someone hate this song? Music will never get any better than this. Ever.  I don't like CttE Yes (pun not intended), you don't like the song, but you don't HATE it do you?

Well, not really. It is overrated, however.

It's one of the big tragedies our age! The fact is, not all people are music lovers, most appreciate music only as entertainment and not as a form of art. The thing is evn worse with classical music, people say they like it (it's bad to say otherwise) but then, how many people actually buy a classical music album, except from the occasional gift or some Beethoven?

Prog-jester wrote: Modern music=entertainment Prog music=REAL TRUE ART!!!

Nope, not really. Nearly all prog is simply quality entertainment as opposed to the 'break a beer bottle on your head' - variety entertainment provided by 99% of the stuff on commercial radio stations.

Fusioned: with so many different bands considered prog, there's got to be someone in your immediate vicinity who likes at least some prog. If you're looking for someone who likes '70s prog, or, more specifically, RIO, or Canterbury etc. well, you might be out of luck. But hey, keep trying, you never know.  

chopper wrote: Personally I wouldn't worry about it, it's their loss not yours. If people prefer listen to CDs by X Factor contestants () rather than Yes, then that's up to them.

For now. You wait 'til the prog revolotution comes. They'll be first against the Wall...and I do mean The Wall!

Blacksword wrote: chopper wrote: Personally I wouldn't worry about it, it's their loss not yours. If people prefer listen to CDs by X Factor contestants () rather than Yes, then that's up to them. For now. You wait 'til the prog revolotution comes. They'll be first against the Wall...and I do mean The Wall!

And above their heads helicopters will flying (i dont know the exact song from the wall with them).

Like in Apoclypse now the music will not be Wagner, but Yes

aprusso wrote: It's one of the big tragedies our age! The fact is, not all people are music lovers, most appreciate music only as entertainment and not as a form of art. The thing is evn worse with classical music, people say they like it (it's bad to say otherwise) but then, how many people actually buy a classical music album, except from the occasional gift or some Beethoven?

Tsunami in SE Asia - genocide in Rwanda - earthquake in Pakistan - tragic blunders in the Middle East - 9/11 - 2/3 0f the world's population subsisting on less than $1 a day - some people don't like prog.

Moan moan moan. Christ! Why do you think the PA forum exists? SO PROGGERS CAN TALK ABOUT PROG WITH FELLOW PROGGERS! So what if your mum doesn't like King Crimson? 80% of the 7075 members on this forum do. Stop complaining, accept that taste is subjective, and talk about the music you love with others who love it too.

oliverstoned wrote: Yes, but the issue of this fascinating thread is to try to understand why people are so hermetic to real music -not only prog-. Same for "why female don't like prog/music"?

Lots of people don't like to think. End of matter.

As for the male/female thing - it's an utter myth.

Trouserpress wrote: oliverstoned wrote: Yes, but the issue of this fascinating thread is to try to understand why people are so hermetic to real music -not only prog-. Same for "why female don't like prog/music"? As for the male/female thing - it's an utter myth.

I actually am a bit thankful that not everybody likes prog, because some people only like certain things because they think they're supposed to like it. How would you like it if some fella would praise Close To The Edge for the lyrics, and not for the music? It'd be a slap in the face to me.

I was playing Camel's - 'Rhyader' and my sister said it sounded like a Television programme!! (Yeah Right!!, not)

and I was playing Genesis Foxtrot and she outbursted "This isn't Rock"( I hate that, oh I a know it all judgement!!)

god don't non prog fans understand good quality music, people like my sister likes music that goes:

thump, thump, thump, and sampled manufactered crap

Actually, SnowGoose (and especially Nude) sounds like good quality videogame music to me.

I could hear Rhyader when a character is introduced in the game.

It annoys me that music is so terrible nowadays, but oh well ...

Lets just be happy that we don't follow it.

It's not a tragedy.

I do believe it is about the "not thinking" and the MTV culture more than anything Whatever, never give up! I am working my way in (bottom up) with my two teenage daughters; one now really likes Stream of Passion, and the other one (tougher) likes Muse. So there is some hope!

They do have a hard time understanding my enthusiasm for epics though........

One in my family likes prog and some friends but beside that none that I know likes it.

I bet that meny in this forum like some prog music

My take FWIW:

Our society (at least in the US) is geared toward instant gratification - just look at all the fast food places on every corner in this country. Additionally, we have developed a "Short-Attention-Span" mentality. After all just tune into CNN or Headline News, or Sports Center & get everything you need to know (sic) in 30 minutes or less.

On top of that people seem to have forgotten how to think for themselves, relying on CNN or Sports Center to tell them what to watch, what to listen to, who is HOT & who is Not, & unfortunately, what to think about everything that is important.

Prog requires the listener to actually Listen to the music, to get involved, to sing the lyrics or hum the melody. Prog is cerebral & most of the good stuff requires active participation. I don't listen to Prog when I'm cleaning the house. I listen to Prog when I want to hear the music.

The Ryan wrote: People are desensitized to the stupidity of programs such as MTV, their friends, and radio. At least in America this is the way it is and has been for a few decades, there's no real structure to the music industry, everybody popular is a one hit wonder. Every kid has a new favorite band every two weeks, and that is a sad story. When I'm in the car with a friend, he or she will consistently spend 1 minute, maybe 2, on a song then move on to another station/song. Usually songs are three minutes, or 3:30, people aren't even finishing listening their music!!! It's almost like the teenagers of today are subconsciously not enjoying what they are listening to, yet cannot realize this fact.

i'm just turned 16 and i detest people like that, they don't even bother to buy albums even, they just download one song- and can't even listen to just that one damn song!!!

 a lot of people just don't have the patience for prog, or anything with a little intelligence.

mrdurganator wrote: The Ryan wrote: People are desensitized to the stupidity of programs such as MTV, their friends, and radio. At least in America this is the way it is and has been for a few decades, there's no real structure to the music industry, everybody popular is a one hit wonder. Every kid has a new favorite band every two weeks, and that is a sad story. When I'm in the car with a friend, he or she will consistently spend 1 minute, maybe 2, on a song then move on to another station/song. Usually songs are three minutes, or 3:30, people aren't even finishing listening their music!!! It's almost like the teenagers of today are subconsciously not enjoying what they are listening to, yet cannot realize this fact. i'm just turned 16 and i detest people like that, they don't even bother to buy albums even, they just download one song- and can't even listen to just that one damn song!!!  a lot of people just don't have the patience for prog, or anything with a little intelligence.

One reason kids only download one song is because thats apparetly the only good song on the album. It's partially the artist fault because they can't make consistent albums.

hdfisch wrote: IF ALMOST EVERYBODY WOULD LIKE PROG IT WOULD BE MAINSTREAM MUSIC! WOULD YOU PREFER THAT? AND WOULD YOU NOT ASK YOURSELF WHAT CAN BE THAT SPECIAL ABOUT IT IF EVERYONE LIKES IT?

If almost everybody liked prog, prog musicians would be actually making money. They would be able to live off their work and thanks to this they would devote more time to it. There would be more and more prog bands, as musicians would see that prog can bring bread onto the table. On the whole, the quantity and quality of prog would improve.

The potential to make money might make someone prolific, but it is not necessarily a breeder of quality.

Zweck wrote: The potential to make money might make someone prolific, but it is not necessarily a breeder of quality.

You're right - inertia may kick in among your listeners and if music is your primary occupation, the customer is always right. But then I'm pretty certain 90% of the bands on PA cost money rather than make it. I mean, what kind of motivation is that? Inspiration, vision and the will to pursue them are one thing, but it's not like the money you put into that pursuit comes easily in the first place. You should break even at the very least. Prog should have enough listeners for the majority of the bands to be able to do that. 

eddietrooper wrote: These are bad times for music lovers in general and specially for prog rock, but let's see it another way: nowadays we are lucky for having the possibility to listen to hundreds of good bands and albums from the last 40 years, they are all available and easy to get, and even we assist to the birth of new bands in this genre. I wouldn't like to go back to the 70's. Now I can enjoy the best of the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's !! Let's enjoy it and forget about the mindless people.

I disagree. I think progressive music is enjoying a resurgence of sorts. Certainly there seem to be a larger number of quality groups today than in the 90's.

A'swepe wrote: My take FWIW: Our society (at least in the US) is geared toward instant gratification - just look at all the fast food places on every corner in this country. Additionally, we have developed a "Short-Attention-Span" mentality. After all just tune into CNN or Headline News, or Sports Center & get everything you need to know (sic) in 30 minutes or less. On top of that people seem to have forgotten how to think for themselves, relying on CNN or Sports Center to tell them what to watch, what to listen to, who is HOT & who is Not, & unfortunately, what to think about everything that is important. Prog requires the listener to actually Listen to the music, to get involved, to sing the lyrics or hum the melody. Prog is cerebral & most of the good stuff requires active participation. I don't listen to Prog when I'm cleaning the house. I listen to Prog when I want to hear the music.

Maybe the next generation will rebel against the instant gratification, what's my opinion today society and start thinking again.

(I'm speaking generally of course and with a bit of tongue in cheek - I'm amazed at the number of 'young-uns' who are members of this site, hat's off to you all)

But all the same I broadly agree with A'swepe...

Firepuck wrote: eddietrooper wrote: These are bad times for music lovers in general and specially for prog rock, but let's see it another way: nowadays we are lucky for having the possibility to listen to hundreds of good bands and albums from the last 40 years, they are all available and easy to get, and even we assist to the birth of new bands in this genre. I wouldn't like to go back to the 70's. Now I can enjoy the best of the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's !! Let's enjoy it and forget about the mindless people. I disagree. I think progressive music is enjoying a resurgence of sorts. Certainly there seem to be a larger number of quality groups today than in the 90's.

Yes, we agree. What I tried to say is that quality music lovers are not popular in these days. We are regarded as strange people.

It's sad to see that most people don't like prog nowadays. Most would rather listen to some whiny emo group sing about cutting themselves because their mom woudn't let them get an Invader Zim t-shirt or something, instead of taking part in actual music that you can get involved in. I have a theory that most 'emo' bands are simply made out of recycled parts from old boy bands assembled somewhere in Detroit, but that's another story.

As far as I know, I'm one of the few prog fans in my area that i know of; sure, there will always be the posers who like Pink Floyd even though the only albums they have are The Wall and possibly Dark Side; and if anyone came up to me and started talking about Van Der Graaf Generator or Sigur Ros, I'd probably keel over dead. Of course, it's not helped by the media, who embrace Punk as if its not comletely stale while dismissing prog as "Pretentious" and "Noodly", pushing Gentle Giant to the corner of the CD store while My Chemical Fallout Evanescent Angstsheep or whatnot gets nearly a row all to itself. Just look at TRL for what music has become; disosable, semidigested, souless pap presented in 5-second clis while brainless fangirls scream on- a complete living hell of musical ignorance.

But maybe they'll realize that there are better things to be found, if they'd only listen, and move on. Until then, I have the honor of being the only person in the county who knows what 'Zeuhl' is.

aprusso wrote: The thing is evn worse with classical music, people say they like it (it's bad to say otherwise) but then, how many people actually buy a classical music album, except from the occasional gift or some Beethoven?

I heard 2 people at my school talking about Dream Theater and Rush (I believe it went something like, "Hey man, I heard some Rush last night. They're like Dream Theater but 10 times better." "What? I don't think that's possible"--then they walked away and I couldn't hear them); somebody drew a very large DSOTM prison and wrote Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon, etc. all over one of the whiteboards (but he/she drew the beams upside down, so he/she probably wasn't really a true Floyd fan); most incredibly of all though, there's a desk which has Van Der Graaf Generator written on it. I was stunned when I saw that; I should take a picture and show it to you guys. :) Now, unfortunately, above that was the sentence "Punk is dead. Emo is next." which made me sad; but I don't think the same person wrote both things. At least I hope not. I also know a few people who like Radiohead.

I'm not totally sure what most people in my class listen to, but it's probably the new rock crap (I know a few people like My Chemical Romance), or country.

The Wizard wrote: mrdurganator wrote: The Ryan wrote: People are desensitized to the stupidity of programs such as MTV, their friends, and radio. At least in America this is the way it is and has been for a few decades, there's no real structure to the music industry, everybody popular is a one hit wonder. Every kid has a new favorite band every two weeks, and that is a sad story. When I'm in the car with a friend, he or she will consistently spend 1 minute, maybe 2, on a song then move on to another station/song. Usually songs are three minutes, or 3:30, people aren't even finishing listening their music!!! It's almost like the teenagers of today are subconsciously not enjoying what they are listening to, yet cannot realize this fact. i'm just turned 16 and i detest people like that, they don't even bother to buy albums even, they just download one song- and can't even listen to just that one damn song!!!  a lot of people just don't have the patience for prog, or anything with a little intelligence. One reason kids only download one song is because thats apparetly the only good song on the album. It's partially the artist fault because they can't make consistent albums.

You guys are all right in one way or another, just like me. Perhaps that's why we're here and everyone else is so confused and ignorant about music.

It's not just 'prog' people don't have patience for, it's quality music in general. Many "songs" on the radio aren't really music pieces to me these days. I'm in high school and I've noticed anyone even remotely intelligent has entered at least the 70's/80's classic/hair rock/metal eras just to run from the crap that happens today. This is very common among my generation. America is particularly retro and traditional in this way and thank god there's no killing that.

And yes, most albums only have 1 decent song, which is why every stupid kid has all mixed CDs of 50 cent, Ludacris, My Chemical Romance, Hawthorne Heights, (All singles, no albums) and so on. The best musical pieces ever created were meant to be heard in one sitting all the way through, that's what quality music takes to be enjoyed for the very first time unless the listener is missing something.

I'm bored of mainstream everything, and I'm supposed to be the 'conformist'... not the rebel.

Space Chief wrote: But maybe they'll realize that there are better things to be found, if they'd only listen, and move on. Until then, I have the honor of being the only person in the county who knows what 'Zeuhl' is.

Zeuhl is Magma, Magma is Zeuhl! Spread the word.

you have to have an ear for prog

i mean you can dislike it

but never because its not music or talent

YOU WILL DIE if such BULL is sent out

cause you can hate

but to bring it down to such a form of disregard is just.....SINFULL!!

Meddler wrote: People like lyrics about love, or something simple they can apply to their everyday lives. Definately not prog.

apparenty people find a love song (written by some swedish guy who no one has ever heard of) sung  by kelly clarkson to be more emotional then something like van der graaf generator or genesis. 

stan the man wrote: Meddler wrote: People like lyrics about love, or something simple they can apply to their everyday lives. Definately not prog. apparenty people find a love song (written by some swedish guy who no one has ever heard of) sung  by kelly clarkson to be more emotional then something like van der graaf generator or genesis.

Newsflash. Apparently people are stupid.

Ghandi 2 wrote: [QUOTE=aprusso]"Punk is dead. Emo is next."

This actually makes me happy.  Being from the place that created punk, Long Island, NY, I am so glad that teenagers are heralding its demise.  Emo or what not aside,  I think there is going to be resurgence of interest in progressive rock over the next three years and you will be able to say, "I was there at its infancy."

Luckilly I have some intellectual friends who like prog and other arts as well!  Not all of them ofcourse...

I think most people are unwilling to accept any kind of art- whether it be music, movies, novels, etc. that is outside of the commercial stuff they have been spoon-fed since birth.  I've noticed time and again that the majority of the people I've met will criticize artsy films and good music- they actually think its bad cause its not like anything they've seen/heard.

Now on the other hand there are some people who don't like prog for legitimate reasons, it just doesn't appeal to them.  I have no problem with that- similarly, I accept fans of classical music to accept that it doesn't appeal to me.

The majority of people don't seem to care much about thinking for themselves, and in such an extreme case, I blame society.

martinprog77 wrote: Fusioned wrote: My family hates it, none of my friends like it, and my (now) ex-girlfriend despised prog rock music. But as I sit here listening to Yes - Close to the Edge I think to myself....how can someone hate this song? Music will never get any better than this. Ever. So why does everyone hate prog so much? I don't understand...oh well. At least with no girlfriend I can blast Saga as loud as I want!!! it happen to me pretty much the same think .but you know what i rather listen to prog that anything that is on mtv or crap like that.people like ricky martin AND I ALEAYSi think''THANK GOD YOU GIVE PROG TO FILL MY HEART ,BODY AND SOUL''PS:MY WIFE DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE HELL WAS PROG ROCK ABOUT?.NOW TWO YEARS LATER SHE LOVES CAMEL GENESIS AND THE FLOWER KINGS.

yeah. i had the same thing happen with my wife. outwardly she says she can't stand prog, but lo and behold who was it humming 'stranger in your soul' by transatlantic. we both looked at each other and cracked up laughing. i knew it'd get her sooner or later!

Em1ty wrote: The fact that there is a whole site and forums that work days and nights isn't a proof that a lot of people like prog ?

"A lot" of people believe they were abducted by aliens. Yet from day to day I seem to avoid these "aliens", as well as the stupid people the best I can.

People who enjoy prog to the extent I do are backed into a corner for life.

[/QUOTE]

People who enjoy prog to the extent I do are backed into a corner for life.

[/QUOTE]

There are worse corners to be backed into.  You could be in a corner with gangsta rappers!

Chicapah wrote:

People who enjoy prog to the extent I do are backed into a corner for life.

[/QUOTE]

There are worse corners to be backed into.  You could be in a corner with gangsta rappers!

[/QUOTE]

Fo' shizzle my nizzle dizzle. I wonder if there are any prog/hip-hop bands, I'd get a kick out of hearing "Close to the Edge" in rap.

Chicapah wrote: I hate to hear myself say it but, "Back when I was young we'd -------------" (fill in the blanks).  For better or for worse I've become my parents.    Their generation revered Glenn Miller and Frank Sinatra and considered jazz to be the prog music of their day and the British Invasion of the 60s heralded the end of "good" music in their minds.  I find that I feel the same way about Genesis and Yes compared to the crap I hear on the radio now.  Back in the day we'd get an album, go home and listen to it uninterrupted from beginning to end because it was important to us to do just that.  The teens of today have other priorities and I say let it be.  Music will evolve with the society it is part of and I have no interest in finding out what that evolution will lead to in the future.  I have my music and it makes me happy to listen to it.  I, for one, am pleased that we didn't have Ipods in the 60s and 70s.  I'm glad we didn't have MTV, as well.  Let the newer generations find the music that stimulates their mind.  Or not.  If they don't develop and support their own Genesis or Yes in their sphere of awareness then it's their loss.  And a real shame in my book.

I kinda agree with this statement. Bearing in mind that I am at the talked about 'teens of today' age, it probably isn't much surprise to me that I am the only one of my group of friends who doesn't have an Ipod. (I do have a minidisc player, on which Genesis is being played at this very moment, but that's neither here nor there). The thing with my minidisc player is that you have to physically get off your backside, buy the CD and then put it onto minidisc, and more often than not, the whole album goes on there. Why bother picking out certain songs when you can put all of them in? And with the Ipod, of course, people download one or two songs from an album and leave it at that. I asked one of my friends as to why he didn't have any more Coldplay songs on his Ipod, and he replied "Because they all sound the same," which is kinda odd really, considering there is a big case for a lot of prog not sounding the same. People seem happy with putting on just one song for a short while and then flicking over to something else, whether it be a short attention spans or something else. It's a shame really, considering, that most kids today haven't been able to access prog rock, maybe because of the reputation already put upon it, or because they simply haven't heard of it. And it's an even bigger shame considering the stuff that they're listening to instead of it.

N.B: Apologies if you don't get where I'm coming from with this; to be honest I don't either.

I feel that iPods cheapen music. First it makes it 10x easier to steal it, but I'm not going there right now, so we can pretend that you are one of the (few?) people who actually pay for their music.

The problem is that people walk around with their iPods on all day. For example, at this thing I was at, as soon as he walked in the door this kid took his iPod off. So whatever he was listening to was just cut off. The listener doesn't get nearly as much out of the music if he is walking around with it on and off all day than if he sits in his room and listens to the whole thing from beginning to end, without skipping any tracks. (which is what I do, unless the album is 60+ minutes or one of the songs really sucks. It seems that pretty much nobody else my age listens to music like that; I guess I'm an anomoly. I am also one of the very few people I know who don't have an iPod; a $40 CD player that came with headphones is fine for me.) Besides breaking the continuity, if you're listening to music all day, it's not special anymore; it also must wreck havoc on your hearing.

As for adults declaring the "end of good music," it's happened every time there was a change in styles. Beethoven shocked the music world with his obsession with rhythmic changes (see the first movement of the 5th Symphony); Classical fans were horrified by Jazz's lack of structure; everyone was horrified wehn in the '50s Elvis went from the opening (I forget the name) to subdominant, to dominant, and then back to subdominant before returning back to the beginning. Since I bet nobody knows what that means (I'm not even sure what it means), ttp://media.putfile.com/Example53 - here's an example. The first time it's the Classical way, and the second time is the new way. It sounds good to your ears, but at the time people really freaked out about it; scientists were claiming that it set up a dissonance in the brain which would cause all kinds of bad things. Getting to the point though, in all those examples it was the adults who couldn't accept change and had a different ear who were horrified; today the youth like myself are rejecting the more modern music, which I don't think has really happened before. I might be wrong, but it's hard for me to imagine a teenager in the '60s clinging to Mozart adn Beethoven. Which proves that the modern trend really is the end of good music :)

What's interesting to me is how things go in cycles despite the huge advances in technology.  In the 50s and early 60s no one bought LP albums (unless it was a soundtrack for a musical).  Instead, they bought single 45s because they only wanted that one particular song.  They had no interest in say, what Paul Anka or even Chuck Berry also had to offer other than what might be on the B side of the single.  It wasn't until the Beatles came along that music fans started wanting more from their artists.  They wanted to be taken somewhere that their radio wouldn't take them.

Perhaps that's where we are now with people only downloading one single song that they heard somewhere and just writing off an album as just "more stuff that probably sounds the same."  I appreciate the input that Bournestar gave a few entries earlier and also agree with Ghandi's assessment.  I can't help but be an "old fart" that treasures the music he grew up with.  It goes with the territory, I guess.    I only hope this generation gets shook up like we did when the Beatles broke down the walls and opened the flood gates to every style of music without prejudice.  Imagine...

Blackleaf wrote: Are you saying there isn't that aspect? What about "Here, have a listen to this *offers other earplug*" After all, that's EXACTLY how I got started :) BL~

I'm pleased to hear that the "osmosis" technique is still in effect, then.  There was always the "heard it being played at the record store" thing, too.  I hope you are right, friend, and that progressive minds are still alive in the world of the 21st century music scene.  Someone has to save the planet from the anti-music that is rap.