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Prog Wars

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Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2061
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Topic: Prog Wars

Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Subject: Prog Wars
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 09:55

In the 1950's jazz drumming legends Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa engaged in a legendary drum battle which was fortunately captured on tape ( I have a vinyl pressing of the recording ). Adrum battle, for those of you not familiar is basically when the two solo players are trying to outdo one another in succesive turns. It is all in good fun and the real winner is the audience! What prog artists would you like to see going at it, here is what I would like to see:

Neil Peart vs. Bill Bruford (Drums)

Geddy Lee vs. Jeff Berlin (Bass)

Steve Morse vs. John McLaughlin (Electric Guitar)

Kieth Emerson vs. Rick Wakeman (Keyboards)

John Lawton vs. Any takers

Replies:

Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 11:44

I would like to see anyone attempt to outdo Steve Vai on guitar - they wouldn't/couldn't, of course, but the entertainment value would be priceless!

An attempt at this is captured on tape too - the soundtrack to the film "Crossroads" (not the Britney Spears version, before you use this thread as an excuse...).

Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 11:56

Uhh. I think I'd prefer:

David Gilmour vs. (ahh even after Certs statement above, there is no one who can verse David Gilmour)

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THIS IS ELP

Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 12:01

I think you caught me out there, TF - of course, Vai isn't noted for his long, lingering sustained notes and simple tunes...

I'd put Andy Latimer and Steve Rothery up against Gilmour - not because I think they'd beat him, but to have those three entering into a duel of who can play the most spine-tingling melodic solo would be amazing!

Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 12:34

Vibrationbaby wrote:

In the 1950's jazz drumming legends Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa engaged in a legendary drum battle which was fortunately captured on tape ( I have a vinyl pressing of the recording ).

Geddy Lee vs. Jeff Berlin (Bass)

Steve Morse vs. John McLaughlin (Electric Guitar)

Thanks for the laugh, added to my delight in seeing my neighbour just win the New York ladies marathon on TV - and she had a proper fight on her hands to win. I think the former one of each pair would be punching well outside their weight - bantamweight v super heavyweight respectively. At least Krupa and Rich were directly comparable musically.

Posted By: dropForge
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 13:04

Andy Latimer is certainly Gilmour's equal. Anybody who listens to Camel knows this.

'Sides...I'd put any up of the "wank" guitar "gods" up against McLaughlin & DiMeola. DiMeola's speed's a tool, not a crutch to fall back on.

Ditto.

Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 13:14

in the keyboard bout, my money is on wakeman

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The Worthless Recluse

Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 13:16

Dick Heath wrote:

Vibrationbaby wrote:

In the 1950's jazz drumming legends Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa engaged in a legendary drum battle which was fortunately captured on tape ( I have a vinyl pressing of the recording ).

Geddy Lee vs. Jeff Berlin (Bass)

Steve Morse vs. John McLaughlin (Electric Guitar)

Methinks thou dost understimate Mr Lee, Mr Heath. Jeff is an acknowledged "great" of the bass guitar but for musicians in North America, Geddy has been the most influencial bassist of the last 25 years and I am not talking fan base either. I remember some of the Guitar Player Magazine letters discussing if he was the best rock bassist of all time (!) Maybe Larry Holmes against Ali would be a better comparison for their match up.

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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 16:44

Peter Gabriel v Fish (how many silly costumes can they change into)

Vangelis v Clive Nolan (pie eating contest)

Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 17:17

frenchie wrote:

in the keyboard bout, my money is on wakeman

Hardly! but that gave me a good laugh....

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THIS IS ELP

Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 17:36

threefates wrote:

frenchie wrote:

in the keyboard bout, my money is on wakeman

Hardly! but that gave me a good laugh....

Rick is the kind of guy who can lend himself to any style with ease.However you just gotta love the sounds that Emerson gets out of his keyboards.Of the two I prefer Rick's Yes work to ELP's catalogue but somehow I just favour Emerson. Confused

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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 17:50

Reed Lover wrote:

threefates wrote:

frenchie wrote:

in the keyboard bout, my money is on wakeman

Hardly! but that gave me a good laugh....

I think I would have to go with Emerson because the man is nuts! Wakeman is more disciplined and I don't think he could keep up with Keith's madness.

Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 17:51

I've seen them both play live very recently.. and it was the same as always... There's just something a little more stiff about Rick's playing... I miss the days tho of Keith traveling with a grand piano on stage. His piano work has always been the most incredible thing to watch....

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THIS IS ELP

Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 18:58

Reed Lover wrote:

Oh dear sitting here in the UK, I thought Jaco Pastorius was the boss of the bass wrt that influence.

Obviously Jeff Berlin has been involved in a number of rock albums (and with Neil Peart), but how's is Geddy Lee's jazz electric bass playing?

Posted By: JrKASperov
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 19:12

Hmm, another really good bassist is Wetton methinks. I wonder how good he is right now, since on Starless and Larks he was REALLY fast now and then. And his improvisation is way above my head, just can';t put my finger on it.

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Epic.

Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 07 2004 at 20:48

JrKASperov wrote:

Hmm, another really good bassist is Wetton methinks. I wonder how good he is right now, since on Starless and Larks he was REALLY fast now and then. And his improvisation is way above my head, just can';t put my finger on it.

yeah. Wetton's bass work with Crimson certainly freaked me out especially live. Check ou The 4 CD set The Great Deciever or USA. Wicked interaction between Wetton and Bruford on the kit.

Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: November 08 2004 at 14:44

Dick Heath wrote:

Reed Lover wrote:

Sorry to be vague Dick,

I was referring to rock bass playing as this is a progressive rock site.

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Posted By: gold1ng
Date Posted: November 08 2004 at 15:33

I think Chris Squire could give Geddy Lee a good fight, both are incredible bass players and their originality is unique.

In the drums section I'd prefer seeing Mike Giles battling it out with Neil. Both have their own style, but I think Giles's playing style is "wilder" (in a way) than Bruford's more "melodic" (uh? :/) drums.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: November 08 2004 at 19:19

I'd like to see a guitar battle between:

Petrucci and Lifeson

Myung and Lee

and Portnoy and Peart.

I'd bet on Lee and Peart from Rush, and Petrucci from Dream Theater.

Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: November 08 2004 at 21:10

Apples and Oranges battling to the death......

Would make a great smoothie!

Posted By: dropForge
Date Posted: November 08 2004 at 22:10

I think Chris Squire could give Geddy Lee a good fight, both are incredible bass players and their originality is unique.

Billy Sheehan, too.

Posted By: StarvingArtyst
Date Posted: November 17 2004 at 23:45

WOOOOO! VAI IS GOD!

And Wakeman could take anyone, even Rudess

Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 18 2004 at 05:03

Reed Lover wrote:

Dick Heath wrote:

Reed Lover wrote:

Sorry to be vague Dick,

I was referring to rock bass playing as this is a progressive rock site.

Sorry this is a progressive rock site , which includes jazz rock - I've left plenty of reminders why jazz rock (not the broader jazz fusion) was and still can be considered an element of progressive rock, as well as modern jazz. Similarly arguements can be made for folk proggie band being folk as well as prog.

Posted By: yarstruly
Date Posted: November 18 2004 at 13:21

Steve Howe vs. Anyone :D

Chris Squire Vs, Geddy Lee

Alan white vs. Bill Bruford

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Facebook hashtags:

#100greatestprogrockchallenge
#scottssongbysong
#scottsspotlight

Posted By: Prog_Bassist
Date Posted: November 18 2004 at 22:12

Vibrationbaby wrote:

Neil Peart vs. Bill Bruford (although rush is my fav band, and neil is unreal, bruford might be a little better i think. (Drums)

Geddy Lee vs. Jeff Berlin (Geddy is my favorite rock bassist, but that is because of his feel and style, plus he's wikid cool. Jeff also plays jazz and such though, and he's really good at it, so I vote Jeff. (Bass)

Steve Morse vs. John McLaughlin (Electric Guitar)

Kieth Emerson vs. Rick Wakeman (Keyboards)

John Lawton vs. Any takers ...i dont know who this is or what he plays so f#ck it.

and

"Oh dear sitting here in the UK, I thought Jaco Pastorius was the boss of the bass wrt that influence."

Amen to that.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuxaD8NzaY" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuxaD8NzaY

Posted By: Swinton MCR
Date Posted: November 19 2004 at 12:47

My Father was an amateur jazz drummer, and his hero was of course, Gene Krupa.....Now my dad could play a bit and so could my grandad ! - However my father did listen to some of my music and in his opinion - Neil Peart was the finest modern drummer he had heard, and his favorite bit of drumming in my record collection at the time.....

Gates of delirium (middle section) - Alan White - My dad thought it was truly amazing....and I would have to agree !

Three fates - Sorry petal, but the caped crusader would get my vote over Emerson, Mainly for the Church organ supremacy !

Guitar - Howe gets it for the sheer "clankingness" of his guitar, just above Hackett whos playing is smoother than a Roxy music track.....

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Play me my song, here it comes again

Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: November 19 2004 at 12:52

Hmm,

I wonder how the Prog gods could actually fair against the likes of McLaughlin, Holdsworth, Shawn Lane (RIP), Hellborg, Jimmy Johnson, Chad Wackerman, and a host of others.

Quite like comparing apples to oranges.

What features or techniques are actually measurable?

Speed, accuracy, difficulty of piece played? Feel and Emotion are subjective.

So then, what's the point?

Posted By: Azrael2112
Date Posted: November 19 2004 at 16:28

Greg Lake vs. John Wetton

to see how many times they can replace each other a band...

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http://www.flywithjet.com">

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 20 2004 at 03:38

Azrael2112 wrote:

Greg Lake vs. John Wetton

to see how many times they can replace each other a band...

Isn't it 2-1 to Wetton?... assuming you count Wetton returning to the band he was in in the first place (Asia).

Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 20 2004 at 04:48

danbo wrote:

Hmm,

I wonder how the Prog gods could actually fair against the likes of McLaughlin, Holdsworth, Shawn Lane (RIP), Hellborg, Jimmy Johnson, Chad Wackerman, and a host of others.

Quite like comparing apples to oranges.

What features or techniques are actually measurable?

Speed, accuracy, difficulty of piece played? Feel and Emotion are subjective.

So then, what's the point?

I like speed of light playing. Feel and emotion can take a back seat. One of my favourite guitar duels is John Mclaughlin and Larry Coryell on the album Spaces. If you can find it the Guru Guru album Dace Of The Flames has a guitar player, Houschang Nejadepour who could give McLaughlin, Akkerman, Holdsworth et al a run for their money! Check out the track " The Day Of Timestop". It's like the guy is from another planet, and he' not playing in a slack key either!

Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 20 2004 at 04:52

Prog_Bassist wrote:

Vibrationbaby wrote:

Neil Peart vs. Bill Bruford (although rush is my fav band, and neil is unreal, bruford might be a little better i think. (Drums)

Steve Morse vs. John McLaughlin (Electric Guitar)

Kieth Emerson vs. Rick Wakeman (Keyboards)

John Lawton vs. Any takers ...i dont know who this is or what he plays so f#ck it.

and

"Oh dear sitting here in the UK, I thought Jaco Pastorius was the boss of the bass wrt that influence."

Amen to that.

John Lawton sang with Lucifer's freind on several albums before joining Uriah Heep in the 70's. Afterwards he went solo and has recently rejoined Uriah Heep as lead singer. There's a DVD out in addition he's got his own DVD out under the name The John Lawton Band. He could easily be mistaken for Ronnie James Dio.

Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 20 2004 at 15:20

Vibrationbaby wrote:

danbo wrote:

I wonder how the Prog gods could actually fair against the likes of McLaughlin, Holdsworth, Shawn Lane (RIP), Hellborg, Jimmy Johnson, Chad Wackerman, and a host of others.

Quite like comparing apples to oranges.

I like speed of light playing.
Check out Buckethead on a good day (alas too many off days) for a shreadfest - does a tremendous set with acoustic guitar on Hellborg/Buckethead/Shrieve's Octave Of The Holy Innocent

If you can find it the Guru Guru album Dance Of The Flames has a guitar player, Houschang Nejadepour who could give McLaughlin, Akkerman, Holdsworth et al a run for their money! Check out the track " The Day Of Timestop". It's like the guy is from another planet, and he' not playing in a slack key either!

You'll have to enlighten me for comparison purposes: while I possess a considerably greater number of Holdsworth and McLaughlin records, I've only have Houschang Nejadepour on two albums. The mentioned Mahavishnu Orchestra-influenced Dance Of the Flames, and on Eiliff's 1972 album Close Encounter With Their Third One - which is more a showcase for Rainer Bruninghaus's key- (NOTE: Bruninghaus is mostly associated with Jan Garbarek nowdays and the ECM Record label). Neither of these albums' guitarwork (IMHO) bear any comparison with the two Yorkshire maestros - so I guess I've missed something, where else should I look and listen?