For an english report im considering writing about Females and Progressive Rock music.

I was thinking along the lines of discussing female listeners/fans , there are some of us out there and female prog musicians.

 I would love to hear my fellow prog lovers views on  this matter.

              Jen.

So Jen... maybe you should read this thread I started months ago here... could be helpful

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1239&PN=4 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1239&a mp;PN=4

The theme of the 2nd-to-last issue of Progression was Women In Prog. See if you can score a copy by way of a friend, somehow (don't sub or order from the site, it'll take you half a year to get it).

It's a great idea.

The only female proggers that  know of are Tracey Hitchings of Landmarq and Christina Booth of Magenta. Are there any others?

There are so few women who make prog, but even fewer, it seems who even like it. Thankfully we have ShrinkingViolet & threefates.

My girlfriend is a life long Rush fan, and likes some Yes and Genesis too, so I haven't done too badly.

Is anyone surprised I have an opinion on the matter?

You'd think that with such an overwhelmingly male fanbase, the women who did get into prog would be "tomboys" or exhibit some traditionally masculine personality characteristics...but in my experience, it's been almost the opposite. The female prog fans I've known have been unquestionably feminine. Of course, I've only known maybe 3 or 4, so it's not much of a sample to draw any real conclusions.

It's always dangerous to generalize, but prog tends to appeal to a specific sort of mentality...a curious blend of the creative and analytic, people who value artistic expression but also discipline and precision. That kind of outlook seems to happen more often in men than women, but whether it's a result of any hard-wired biological tendency or cultural/ social source (nature vs. nurture) is impossible to say.

There also seems to be some correlation between fans of prog, science fiction, and Monty Python...

Velvetclown wrote: Not forgetting PETRA.

GREAT topic... don't forget the lovely Renate Knaup from the psychedelic & cult Amon Duul II...her incantatory voice is really delicious.

Velvetclown wrote: Not forgetting PETRA.

Oh yes don't forget me! *puts hand up*

I find that there are not many women interested in any genre of music not just prog.  

sigod wrote: It's a great idea. The only female proggers that  know of are Tracey Hitchings of Landmarq and Christina Booth of Magenta. Are there any others?

Jane Relf then Annie Haslam of Renaissance, vocalist of Minimum Vital, Carol Grimes of Delivery, Gayle Moran variously of Mahavishnu Orchestra and Return To Forever, Annette Peacock on Bruford's Feels Good To Me. Do you count Julie Dyble and then Sandy Denny of Fairport Convention? Julie Tippetts (ne Driscoll). Anna Sofi Dahlberg of Anekdoten.  But the point is taken there are very few female musicians involved in past and present prog bands - I bet there are more violinists in prog then women. There too is some assumption prog rock has considerably more male followers than female.

Most women I know will listen to music on their car radio cassette (Radio 2 or wharever) but very rarely buy stuff.

My wife listens to a broad base of pop music-Rush thru to Suzanne Vega &Sheryl Crow thru Blue () and Westlife.

At the recent Rush concert it was at least 85% male,my wife being an honourable exception.

I cant see any reason why many women seem to lose interest in music once they leave their teens. One of lifes great 2 great mysteries-the other is why they lose interest in sex after marriage.

Dick Heath wrote: sigod wrote: It's a great idea. The only female proggers that  know of are Tracey Hitchings of Landmarq and Christina Booth of Magenta. Are there any others? Jane Relf then Annie Haslam of Renaissance, vocalist of Minimum Vital, Carol Grimes of Delivery, Gayle Moran variously of Mahavishnu Orchestra and Return To Forever, Annette Peacock on Bruford's Feels Good To Me. Do you count Julie Dyble and then Sandy Denny of Fairport Convention? Julie Tippetts (ne Driscoll). Anna Sofi Dahlberg of Anekdoten.  But the point is taken there are very few female musicians involved in past and present prog bands - I bet there are more violinists in prog then women. There too is some assumption prog rock has considerably more male followers than female.

Don't forget Sonja Kristina of Curved Air of course and Mostly Autumn's Heather Findlay.

Velvetclown wrote: Well work still sucks after 10 years

Male prostitution is illegal in the UK

James Lee wrote: Is anyone surprised I have an opinion on the matter? You'd think that with such an overwhelmingly male fanbase, the women who did get into prog would be "tomboys" or exhibit some traditionally masculine personality characteristics...but in my experience, it's been almost the opposite. The female prog fans I've known have been unquestionably feminine. Of course, I've only known maybe 3 or 4, so it's not much of a sample to draw any real conclusions. It's always dangerous to generalize, but prog tends to appeal to a specific sort of mentality...a curious blend of the creative and analytic, people who value artistic expression but also discipline and precision. That kind of outlook seems to happen more often in men than women, but whether it's a result of any hard-wired biological tendency or cultural/ social source (nature vs. nurture) is impossible to say. There also seems to be some correlation between fans of prog, science fiction, and Monty Python...

creative and analytical....wow! I just thought we were a bunch of nerds...cool! I'm more creative the anyone else(outside of prog archives) I am special!! 

Dick Heath wrote: sigod wrote: It's a great idea. The only female proggers that  know of are Tracey Hitchings of Landmarq and Christina Booth of Magenta. Are there any others?     Jane Relf then Annie Haslam of Renaissance, vocalist of Minimum Vital, Carol Grimes of Delivery, Gayle Moran variously of Mahavishnu Orchestra and Return To Forever, Annette Peacock on Bruford's Feels Good To Me. Do you count Julie Dyble and then Sandy Denny of Fairport Convention? Julie Tippetts (ne Driscoll). Anna Sofi Dahlberg of Anekdoten.  But the point is taken there are very few female musicians involved in past and present prog bands - I bet there are more violinists in prog then women. There too is some assumption prog rock has considerably more male followers than female.

Danishta Rivero (Aghora)

Emilia Derkowska (Quidam)

Vanessa Falabella & Paula Santoro (Sagrado coraçao da terra)

The woman who used to sing in Curved Air

Sally Oldfield

Maddy Prior (she sang on JT's "Too old...")

Laura Basla (Tale cue)

Maire Brennan (if you consider Clannad as prog)

and many others whom I unfortunately didn't hear about.

Velvetclown wrote: REED is not illegal in Sweden ...................... Darn  But we´ll knock his teeth out for free anyway

You can try bucko! I'd have you suppin' from my bucket o' piss before you could say "sucky~f*cky, five buckee"

Can't forget Ars Nova, an all-female prog band(and they're good too!)

Magma's female vocalist is wonderful too

Females and prog... my favorite combination

What about Lana Lane (Erik Norlander's wife- we saw them recently they were both absolutely stunning!) , Liz Prendagast of great Folk/Rock/Prog band Blue Horses, Heather Findlay (already been mentioned), Angela Goldthorpe (also Mostly Autumn), Rachel Jones (sadly Karnataka have recently split up), Anne also of Karnataka (sorry can't remember her surname), and yes we too have seen landmarq with Tracy Hitchings, they were very impressive. Fiona Ford of Fula has a wonderful voice too.

There are probably lots more but can't  think of any at the moment, by the way I am a female but also like lots of other kinds of music besides prog, maybe we are more open minded?????

Years ago there was a Genesis cover band which toured around Quebec and Ontario here in Canada which featured a female keyboard player who did a real good Tony Banks!

Other female progers that haven't been metioned yet which come to mind are Jennie Haan- Babe Ruth  Anna Sofi Dahlber-Anekdoten and Jennifer Hensel from the German band from the 70's Octopus Silvi Lillegard-From the Norwegian 70's prog band Ruphus.

  Dawn Muir from Brainticket

We should start a femaleprogarchives.com site

We also must not forget Renate Kanup from Ammon Duul II

Tauhd would have been a great source. I miss her.

"She was a singer in a prog and roll band" think Moodys please.

Question Peter, are her initials JD?

Another lady in prog is Deborah Perry of Thinking Plague.

I've just listened to their MP3 which is available on the Archives, and I was impressed. Challenging music, somewhat in the style of classic Gentle Giant.

Check them out! Any fans of this interesting-seeming band out there?

Aerosol Grey wrote: Can't forget Ars Nova, an all-female prog band(and they're good too!) Magma's female vocalist is wonderful too

Uhh.. last time I looked, Arsnova is not all female...

Also I think we've missed the point.  SV was asking about women liking prog... more so than women performing prog.  At least thats how i read her question.

Peter Rideout wrote: Another lady in prog is Deborah Perry of Thinking Plague. I've just listened to their MP3 which is available on the Archives, and I was impressed. Challenging music, somewhat in the style of classic Gentle Giant. Check them out! Any fans of this interesting-seeming band out there?

Yo, P. Didja miss my Tauhd question?

threefates wrote: Aerosol Grey wrote: Can't forget Ars Nova, an all-female prog band(and they're good too!) Magma's female vocalist is wonderful too Uhh.. last time I looked, Arsnova is not all female...

The Archives said they were, if something in the band has changed since then I was unaware.  Whatever.

Yeh, Arsnova is 2 girls and a guy...

ShrinkingViolet wrote:  I would love to hear my fellow prog lovers views on  this matter.               Jen.

Hi Jenna,

You may want to check this site for something on the subject of Females & Prog : http://ghostland.com/ghostland/editorials.asp - http://ghostland.com/ghostland/editorials.asp

You'll see two related articles there entitled:

- Boys and Girls and Progressive Rock - July 2, 2001

- Boys and Girls and Progressive Rock, Part 2 - June 2, 2003

Hope that helps  !

Lise

Joanne Hogg from IONA.

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=417 - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAN D.asp?band_id=417

I would be happy to answer any specific questions about my views on prog music. This is just a suggestion but why not put together a sort of questionnaire for the female prog fans on this message board to respond to?

Lynn

Lynn wrote: I would be happy to answer any specific questions about my views on prog music. This is just a suggestion but why not put together a sort of questionnaire for the female prog fans on this message board to respond to? Lynn

There's like 4 of you. Seems like Max  has more essential concerns. No offense, but 4 out of 1,200 or so...you do the math.

Anyone mentioned Magdelena Hagberg of Par Lindh Project? ...well I did then.

gdub411 wrote: Lynn wrote: I would be happy to answer any specific questions about my views on prog music. This is just a suggestion but why not put together a sort of questionnaire for the female prog fans on this message board to respond to? Lynn There's like 4 of you. Seems like Max  has more essential concerns. No offense, but 4 out of 1,200 or so...you do the math.

There was more of us... but you scared the rest away!

Or they had better things to do....like the household chores!

Reed Lover wrote: Or they had better things to do....like the household chores!

Well fortunately for us... women into prog wouldn't put up with crap like you, Tony... which is why you have so much need to see the household chores done evidently...

threefates wrote: Well fortunately for us... women into prog wouldn't put up with crap like you, Tony... which is why you have so much need to see the household chores done evidently...

My missus is ironing my shirt for work tomorrow at this very moment!

And she's listening to "Close To The Edge" ,or at least she's saying she's.......

Reed Lover wrote: threefates wrote: Well fortunately for us... women into prog wouldn't put up with crap like you, Tony... which is why you have so much need to see the household chores done evidently... My missus is ironing my shirt for work tomorrow at this very moment! And she's listening to "Close To The Edge" ,or at least she's saying she's.......

Yep, the next song she'll want to hear is "Knife Edge"... I'm sure!

danbo wrote: Tauhd would have been a great source. I miss her. "She was a singer in a prog and roll band" think Moodys please.   Question Peter, are her initials JD?

I saw your question, DB, but didn't really understand it at the time. Sorry!

I miss Tauhd too, though I was mistaken (yes, that IS possible) about her "identity" and band membership. For a couple of reasons, I had thought that she might be Magma's Stella Vander, but she later denied this.

I don't get the "JD" reference.

If memory serves me very well there were plenty of women at any concert I went to from the early 70's onwards at the Greens in Glasgow and then the Apollo as it changed to and Shrinking Violet's thread was about females listening to prog.Unfortunately in the shallow sh*t hole society of today the music they are subjected to in it's subversive form is for those who do not have to think too much.But do not give up S.V as others have said try and get a copy of the latest Progression mag you'll love it.Best of luck with you project.

I went out with a really cute Jewish girl who was into Whitesnake and by the time our relationship fizzled out she was into Yes, Genesis, IQ and so on - I have done my bit to spread the Gospel to the fairer Sex.

However my wife likes The BeeGees and Lionel Ritchie and she HATES my prog!

She is good at Housework though.................................

This woman must be a prog fan.........

Woman Sentenced to Jail for Filthy House

OMAHA, Neb. (AP) - After ignoring six years of prodding from the city, a woman is going to jail for having a filthy house. A Douglas County judge Thursday sentenced Rosie Fellman to 45 days behind bars for littering, with breaks every 10 days to clean up her central Omaha home.

Trash and debris has been piled up to 5 feet deep in the house and garage, which are a health and fire hazard, the city's chief housing inspector Kevin Denker said.

Last month, inspectors found more than 100 garbage cans in the driveway.

City Prosecutor Marty Conboy said the city has spent six years trying to get Fellman to clean up. There was not much else the judge could do, Conboy said.

At the end of Fellman's sentence, the judge will decide if she has improved the home's condition. If not, she could be sentenced to another 45 days in jail.

The city has ordered the home demolished, but Fellman, who lives alone, is appealing the order.

``If she doesn't clean it out we'll just tear down everything,'' Denker said.

Swinton MCR wrote: I went out with a really cute Jewish girl who was into Whitesnake and by the time our relationship fizzled out she was into Yes, Genesis, IQ and so on - I have done my bit to spread the Gospel to the fairer Sex. However my wife likes The BeeGees and Lionel Ritchie and she HATES my prog! She is good at Housework though.................................

Hi, where you been Swinton?

Has Utd's terrible start to the season left you in a depression or are you not of that persuasion?

Yeah, I am a Season Ticket Holder at Old Trafford but thats a subject for another forum - I like this site but haven't been visiting because I've been too busy....

Current CD I'm listening to........Gothic Impressions by PLP.....

Fine fine CD......

Swinton MCR wrote: Yeah, I am a Season Ticket Holder at Old Trafford but thats a subject for another forum - I like this site but haven't been visiting because I've been too busy.... Current CD I'm listening to........Gothic Impressions by PLP..... Fine fine CD......

So you're one of Satan's Minnions then?

I'm just stupid..my team is Wolverhampton Wanderers

Oops as this is a music site, the PLP album you mention is great ...do you have the others as well?  

I think there are not too many women into prog because they do not know about it.

I am into this music since the beginning and I have a 17 year old daughter who likes it very much too (besides RAMMSTEIN and Techno/HardCore/Goa which I like also).

gdub411 wrote: Can I be the court Jester? Can I? Can I?

That'd be the Court Of The "Crimson Ring" wouldn't it Greg?

Reed Lover wrote: gdub411 wrote: Can I be the court Jester? Can I? Can I? That'd be the Court Of The "Crimson Ring" wouldn't it Greg?

Yuk!!..that's really gross and painful sounding!....Lube and gentleness and alleviate those concerns. What say you Tony...will you be gentle?

Fortunately the only thing that gets stuck up my arse is my head!

Shouldn't you be be trolling the chat rooms for that sort of excitement? Preferably without a Web Cam...

Trolling chat rooms for sexual gratification? What kind of sleaze do ya think I am?(they really need a halo emoticon on these sites)

I would rather troll these sites and incite a riot whenever the opportunity presents itself.

I think you're just trying to get rid of me.. aren't ya T-Dawg?

God no Greg!  I need you around to make me look clever.

Maybe TreeFrights will lend you her Navvie?

Reed Lover wrote: God no Greg!  I need you around to make me look clever. Maybe TreeFrights will lend you her Navvie?

well that's what I'm here for ol chap...but I am kicking your arse in this WWII wrestling match!

And this is how I treat clowns:

Velvetclown wrote: How REED treats women

Reed, why are you carrying all those sticks? More importantly...you let your woman smoke?

ellebrille wrote:    Maybe I could have found a couple within the male gender but I feel it is impossible to get a friend relationship with a male. There is always seduction in the air!

you need to find a gay friend who likes prog...but those are few and far between I'm afraid.

You guys must be hanging in the wrong places.  I know lots of women who love prog.  And usually women who do love prog are definitely more music oriented than other women.  We spend a lot of time with the music on..,we tend to have our favorites.. .and we don't seem to be the types to put up with a lot of crap.

Otherwise, we're probably the women you don't want to be married too!

ellebrille wrote: Is my world upside down? I am a female in her late thirty.  Do not look like a tomboy at all with all my  dresses and skirts.  People tend to think I like classic music because the way I dress??.  The guy at the music store started to laught when I told him I was looking for the Mars volta album when it came out. I have a boyfriend who says he likes prog.  He does not or his limits are Rush,Yes, Pink floyd and Genesis.  I really get on his nerves with my music.  I ran him crazy with my Marillion for the last 20 years.  Recently we had a fight about A Perfect circle (Thirteen steps) album in the car. I never had a friend who was listening the same kind of music as me.  Maybe I could have found a couple within the male gender but I feel it is impossible to get a friend relationship with a male. There is always seduction in the air! It does not matter since I am happy to listen to it alone.  Most precious things in life are my discman, my car radio, my computer speakers at the office and all my cd's.

I understand exactly how you feel, music is definitely a mans world I have often in the past felt out of place at a gig or in a record store even though i dont wear skirts and dresses. But nowdays maybe its down to confidence and just knowing how to blend in i dont find myself intimitated the same way.   

None of my girlfriends are interested in music full stop let alone Prog but i am lucky that i do have a male friend (that is happily married) that i go to gigs with and can have good discussions about music  but not prog though  But i am working on a cunning plan to convert him!  Also i have many friends online that i love sharing music with.

I agree with you about your most precious things although my children would come above them or maybe my laptop would .....

Yes Velvet to this lovely lady no?

Is there an all-girl prog band ?

You guys must be hanging in the wrong places.  I know lots of women who love prog.  And usually women who do love prog are definitely more music oriented than other women.  We spend a lot of time with the music on..,we tend to have our favorites.. .and we don't seem to be the types to put up with a lot of crap

OK I agree on my typical male comment! Another approach, Sophia Domancich, french pianiste, former girlfriend of Pip Pyle, who played on the Hatfield reunion tour replacing Dave Stewart, plays for me a"feminin" approach of Jazz/prog. Now, compare her playing with the one of Dave Stewart on the same tracks.She is a classical trained pianiste and I am sure she could have played it note for note in the Stewart way.But she gives the songs a more floating open touch, let's say more sensual.This is only one exemple and not very scientific, but IMHO the very straight organised playing of DS is a male component whrereas SD approach is feminine(not taking in account her personal style)What do you think :is there gender related music? There are so few women composers, why?Does it only reflect the social realities?

In most cases women have not historically been encouraged in artistic self-expression. It goes for writing and performing music as well as painting & scuplture, and even dramatic arts (Shakespeare, like Kabuki, was typically performed with an all-male cast). It's really only in the last century or two that women began to have any sort of freedom in the 'fine arts', and traditions like that are slow to overturn, even subconsciously.

But as far as the 'character' of women's artistic expression, I'd be more surprised if it was too similar, given women's fundamentally different outlook and responses. Vive la difference

In most cases women have not historically been encouraged in artistic self-expression. It goes for writing and performing music as well as painting & scuplture, and even dramatic arts (Shakespeare, like Kabuki, was typically performed with an all-male cast). It's really only in the last century or two that women began to have any sort of freedom in the 'fine arts', and traditions like that are slow to overturn, even subconsciously.

I agree, but then look at the bloom of female artists in the 20th century especially in litterature and in the field of composers you can hardly find women.Nadia Boulanger was more known for her teaching and even today in "modern popular music" (opposed to classic)I see only Carla Bley who claims herself as a composer and not a songwriterand Wendy Carlos.(By the way Escalator over the hill is Prog in his best for me)Even Joni Mitchell, Kate Bush orTori Amos for example who are outstanding musicians are mainly songwriters/performing artists, and in the case of Prog I don't consider Songwriting as composing.So where are the woman composers ?