If you mean solos like Maiden, Metallica or Megadeth - awesome!

All the brutal death/black metal sounds all the same to me though

To me, in prog metal, all i hear is people playing overly fast guitar solos with the same 32nd and 64th note rhythms the entire time. That was certainly a by-product of 80's shred.  I don't not like them (i actually love a great speed solo (see John Petrucci), it's just that they are so repetitive that i can't tell them apart. That's why people like C.C. DeVille were hated on so much in the 80's.  Shred is fine; just inject some emotion into the playing.  I just wish that guitarists would incorperate more chops and rhythms into their solos like they used to (Yes, Rush, Zappa, King Crimson) and then maybe throw in a few speed solos. Has Alex Lifeson EVER done a speed solo?  That I recall...no, and I've owned, listened to and enjoyed (almost) every one of them.  He told GUITAR WORLD that he considers himself more of a rhythm player than anything else.  To me, skill isn't how fast you can play.  True, to a point.  With certain types of music (doesn't all have to be rock), though, you NEED some speed to navigate not only chord changes, but string-skipping and things like that.  Even blues guitarists like Johnny Winter and Stevie Ray Vaughan were pretty speedy, but no one would DARE to say they were "shredders" or that they "lacked emotion".

Just a thought.

Some awesome, some awful. Depends on which band!

walrus333 wrote: If used sparingly it can be great; however if you are say Yngwie Malmsteen who feels the need to play at 200 miles per hour every second, it can grow old fast.

Funny...Yngwie claims to be influenced by Richie Blackmore...if that's the case, why can't he frickin'  slow down once in a while?  I heard something by his band called "Alcatrazz" one time (my ex b/f swore by him...figures), and, me being a shred fan (Satch, Vai, Petrucci, Van Halen, etc.) I thought I'd like it.  Within 15 seconds I was reaching for the nearest bucket.

micky wrote: sbrushfan wrote: To me, in prog metal, all i hear is people playing overly fast guitar solos with the same 32nd and 64th note rhythms the entire time. That was certainly a by-product of 80's shred.  I don't not like them (i actually love a great speed solo (see John Petrucci), it's just that they are so repetitive that i can't tell them apart. That's why people like C.C. DeVille were hated on so much in the 80's.  HAH!!!  Poison/DeVille were quite popular back then... time hasn't been kind to that group or really any group of that ilk. He's hated (not respected is the better term) today.. not back then. Shred is fine; just inject some emotion into the playing.  Personally I find shredding boring as hell but it is purely technical isn't it... is there any place for.... emotion in it.  To make an anology we can all relate to.... shredding is to music as a 'quickie' is to sex. I just wish that guitarists would incorperate more chops and rhythms into their solos like they used to (Yes, Rush, Zappa, King Crimson) and then maybe throw in a few speed solos. Has Alex Lifeson EVER done a speed solo?  That I recall...no, and I've owned, listened to and enjoyed (almost) every one of them.  He told GUITAR WORLD that he considers himself more of a rhythm player than anything else. I agree and can't recall one either....  To me, skill isn't how fast you can play.  True, to a point.  With certain types of music (doesn't all have to be rock), though, you NEED some speed to navigate not only chord changes, but string-skipping and things like that.  Even blues guitarists like Johnny Winter and Stevie Ray Vaughan were pretty speedy, but no one would DARE to say they were "shredders" or that they "lacked emotion". Just a thought. and a good post!

I know Poison were HIGHLY popular in the 80's (and C.C. Deville is now starring on THE SURREAL LIFE on VH1...figures); what I meant by that comment was that the backlash against them is unbearable...you should've seen the issue of Guitar World which listed the "100 WORST SOLOS, RIFFS & LICKS."  DeVille appeared no less than 3 times!  That's right....THREE f**king times! 

I love 'em.

I've really never understood the fuss about it all though. Personally I wouldn't call it showing off or anything as it's a music genre within itself. Take me for example, I like to shred. Am I trying to show off? No. I love shred! From a young age I was influenced by bands like Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer and Iron Maiden. Fast solos have always been a part of my music.

Sometimes I listen to classical. That's nice for calm, relaxing, mellowing out music. Shred is the exacty opposite. I think the whole "there is no passion" is bullsh*t, as all shred guitarists had to practice a lot to get where they are. I practice on average of about six hours a day and I'm still learning.

^^^

I agree. Shredding (don't appreciate that word) suits the music like gentle slower and emotional guitar parts suit the prog songs we know. It bears the atmosphere of the song and conveys the power, rage, sorrow or every other feeling the song is trying to put through.

^^^

You can say that about almost any part of a song. If it doesn't augment the composition, than fine, but otherwise it is just a waste of time/display of technique/etc. and doesn't always make for good music.

I don't see what is the matter with the display of guitar technique. Any part of a song can ruin it, not just the guitar solo's.

walrus333 wrote: If used sparengly it can be great, however if you are say Yngwie Malmsteen who feels the need to play at 200 miles per hour every second it can grow old fast.

I agree. In the context of a song a burst of speed in a solo can be awesome, but a whole album of  some ego-maniac playing 10,000,000,000 MPH is pointless and very annoying. Someone like Eric Johnson who clearly has the ability of any shredder can use speed to enhance an already tasty guitar passage. Impressive as it may be from a technical standpoint, shredding/speed metal is just flat out annoying to me. Some people can say more with one note than others can say with a trillion.

NaturalScience wrote: Sometimes I find shredding accompanied by rapid fire double pedal work (as you'll find in most speed/thrash metal) to be cathartic in a way.  Maybe I have some underlying aggression to work out or something... I have various moods in which I like different types of music, sometimes soft, gentle acoustic stuff or lighter poppier sound works...but sometimes I just need a band to kick some A.  Ergo metal.

If that's the case...maybe you should try listening to some HEAVY death metal...I'm thinking along the lines of, say, Morbid Angel or Hate Eternal...

Rushatlantic wrote: To me, in prog metal, all i hear is people playing overly fast guitar solos with the same 32nd and 64th note rhythms the entire time. I don't not like them (i actually love a great speed solo (see John Petrucci), it's just that they are so repetative that i can't tell them apart. I just wish that guitarists would incourperate more chops and rhythms into their solos like they used to (Yes, Rush, Zappa, King Crimson) and then maybe throw in a few speed solos. To me, skill isn't how fast you can play.

This is why I believe rock and roll is superior to all offbrand genres, such as metal. That's a big generalization though, metal can be great but rock and roll (with all the varying rhythm) is far more diverse.

The Ryan wrote: Rushatlantic wrote: To me, in prog metal, all i hear is people playing overly fast guitar solos with the same 32nd and 64th note rhythms the entire time. I don't not like them (i actually love a great speed solo (see John Petrucci), it's just that they are so repetative that i can't tell them apart. I just wish that guitarists would incourperate more chops and rhythms into their solos like they used to (Yes, Rush, Zappa, King Crimson) and then maybe throw in a few speed solos. To me, skill isn't how fast you can play. This is why I believe rock and roll is superior to all offbrand genres, such as metal. That's a big generalization though, metal can be great but rock and roll (with all the varying rhythm) is far more diverse.

Yes, rock and roll is astoundingly diverse, Elvis, Chuck Berry, Cliff Richard...

As for shred - depends on the player. Some of it is delicious, some is random/predictable/simplistic. Also that whole "I'm faster than you" mentality is ridiculous to the extreme. Practice only to become fast enough, simply put.

That said, I think there are few really innovative guitarists out there, and I don't think you can find them in prog (bear in mind that I don't really consider fusion/RIO/Kraut/Zeuhl prog - more progressive than the symphonic bands, for example, but not prog). Most guitarists still seem to be up to their elbows in blues. I love their playing, but I really think blues is overused and holds the music back instead of propelling it. Same with jazz, actually. There are exceptions, but they seem few. 

If you mean speed solos they can get kind of annoying after a while. But more in the mood solos, like Gilmour, are beautiful. Every guitar player has his/her own style of emotion through solos, and I agree comparing em with each other is not cool.

Don't you think there should be more bass solos?(or maybe there are and i'm not acquainted with them?) Imagine four minutes with dude Myung swinging his hair back and forth or Squire and his faces or Geddy Lee's?

Sort of the same idea as Jimmy Page,

Fast, but

Not very tasteful

at all.

Now let's go listen to real prog.

 that's a staggering post if I ever saw one.

(gets beaten up by the bad joke police)

 and what's Jimmy Page doing up there?

Malmsteen and Michael Angelo

I don´t like Petrucci´s shredding with Rudess doing the same thing on keyboards. I love Petrucci´s slower stuff like the guitar solo on "Lines in the sand" but when it comes to shredding Petrucci is annoying.

W.Chuck wrote: I love slow and fast solos, as long as they have a certain medlody and a sense. Solos Michael Romeo, Tony MacAlpine, Marcel Coenen, Jani Liimatainen, Kirk Hammet, Stephan Forte, Uli Jon Roth, etc... are awesome. But guitarists like Rusty Cooley or John Petrucci are just terrible when they play fast...

Kirk Hammet has melody and sence?!

W.Chuck wrote: I love slow and fast solos, as long as they have a certain medlody and a sense. Solos Michael Romeo, Tony MacAlpine, Marcel Coenen, Jani Liimatainen, Kirk Hammet, Stephan Forte, Uli Jon Roth, etc... are awesome. But guitarists like Rusty Cooley or John Petrucci are just terrible when they play fast...

How could you say Kirk Hammet has melody and sense and Petrucci doesn't? I think Petrucci is one of the finest in terms or melody and sense at all speeds.

I don't listen to any w**kery "virtuoso" music, but Metal/Speed solo's are good exactly in Speed/Trad/Thrash Metal, and often are used in some of the Avant-Metal I listen to.

I also cringed when I saw another post claiming that "everything that isn't Dream Theater is bad about Progmetal". Oh well, can't heal the sick!

 -- Ivan

Usually it's just pointless, emotionless, crap that bothers me and gets in the ay of the real music.