Vai or Satriani
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Topic: Vai or Satriani
Posted By: el böthy
Subject: Vai or Satriani
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 20:35
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I prefer Satriani way over Vai...I just don´t like him very much...althought I must admit that technically he is "better" than Satriani
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Replies:
Posted By: Dr Know
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 20:43
| Satriani |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 20:47
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Satch by a mile. His playing has more to offer and is more original than Vai's IMO. Vai always comes across to me as too much of a showman. He's always got his glitter on his face and an industrial size fan to blow his hair back while he plays. too much style, not enough substance. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Fede
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 20:53
| Vai |
Posted By: Progdrummer05
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 21:08
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i'm sticking with the satch man because vai is just too much into the whole glamour rock 'n' roll style plus he uses that whammy bar waaaaaaaaay too much when he solo's like he did in the G3 DVD. Which in my opinion John Petrucci blew both the Satch and Vai out of the water. ------------- Carry On My Wayward Son |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 21:26
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funny, but Joe Satriani's style reminds me a lot of Steve Hackett. am I the only one to hear that?
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 21:31
Satriani ... although in a big clearout a few years ago ... I got rid of all albums I owned by both guys ... haven't really missed them  ------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer. "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 21:53
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Meh, I have more Vai albums, and like them all, but Surfin with the Alien is just spectacular! So, I'm out this one... ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 21:53
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I can't choose between them. I love them both, for different reasons.
------------- Pure Brilliance: 
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Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 22:31
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Joe- WAY better song writer. ------------- |
Posted By: liquidtheater
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 22:31
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satch all the way. ------------- Dream Sequencer System Offline |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 22:54
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Vai by a mile. Even though I hate the way he acts like he is the King of the
world (I'll never get over the fan blowing his hair back) his music is very creative at times when he isn't playing 100 miles an hour. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Rising Force
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 01:17
Same here. |
Empathy wrote:Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 01:58
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I won't let something like that distract me from the music ... so Vai for me too, by a LIGHTYEAR. Better performer, better songwriter, better visionary, genius, true artist ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 03:30
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Pretty well feel that way about them both But overall, Vai is more prog His Flexable release is correct ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 03:46
Sounds technical. What's that? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10"> 
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Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 03:57
| Satch for me. Much better melodic sense. |
Posted By: eddietrooper
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 04:14
| IMO Vai is much more creative and original. |
Posted By: Valarius
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 04:54
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Joe Satriani. Although Steve Vai rules. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 05:22
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I wonder how many of you all even know Vai's Flexable albums - or his work with the Metropole Orkest. Like 10x more creative than what Satriani ever did ... and I am a Satriani fan, don't get me wrong. But apart from Surfing with the Alien and Engines of Creation I cannot find nearly as much adventurous stuff as Vai has on ALL his albums. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Space Dimentia
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 06:49
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My mate is a Vai boy througha nd through and I do admit I like abit of Vai but I am persoanlly more inclinded towards Satch simply becuase he is a little more blusey and he writes his music like songs so you can hum them. Yet they both rank in my top 10 fav guitarists. ------------- Prog is music for the mind Hear your Orphaned child! Check out my bands myspace site: www.myspace.com/equinox17 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 06:52
 love tyhem both.. new Santrinai cd 3/14 '' super colossal''. i was told that either vai or satriani taught oneof the other.. i dont remmember which one...
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 06:54
| this thread smells like cheese to me ;) |
Posted By: eddietrooper
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 07:08
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Satriani was the teacher, but in the case of Vai the alumn became better than the teacher. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 07:17
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to eddietropper;;; yes well said.. if you ever get a chance to see JS, live, he is so conseded on stage, dont gert me wrong, i think they both great, but JS thinks his mailto:S#@T - S#@T dont stink
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Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 07:20
| Satriani |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 09 2006 at 07:21
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You surely can also hum Vai songs ... they're just generally more complex than Satriani songs. Vai: (slight) overstatement, Satriani: (slight) understatement. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: imoeng
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 07:24
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just want to bring this poll again, lol... satriani is better in terms of musicality, more beautiful songs.. on the other hand, vai is better in technical ability.... if you mix both, you'll see John Petrucci... ------------- http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spmiw7.jpg"> 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 07:28
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Vai. Satch would be so much better if his drumbeats were interesting and didn't only provide a feeble frame for his guitarwork. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 07:35
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I don't understand why many people say that Satriani writes better melodies than Vai. Vai is a true master of songwriting. Most of his songs are really well balanced - very diverse, great shredding, great sparse parts, mellow, aggressive - everything.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 12:24
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Sincerely... Variani!!! ------------- 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 13:42
Or even better: G3  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 14:18
Yeah, but which one? JoStevEric VaiJohnIani? JoJohnSteve PetrIaniVai? or JoSteveWie VaIaniSteen? ------------- Pure Brilliance:
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Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 14:34
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Eric Johnson owns both of them. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 15:35
Not really - he fits nicely. Do you know that Eric Johnson released his last album on Vai's label? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 16:17
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Vai - he's simply more diverse. |
Posted By: xtopher
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 21:19
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I love Vai, but Satch is one of my favorite all-time musicians, so Satch. Yes, they're both master songwriters. However, I don't know if I'd say that Vai is superior technically; he's much quicker to display his chops than Satch is, while Satch is more careful to keep his phrasing more deliberate and tasteful. Vai is more experimental and varied, but his biggest weakness is that his albums are a little inconsistent. On the other hand, Satch usually remains within a specific blues/rock style (which sometimes bugs me), but he is incredibly good at getting you to feel the precise emotion or vibe he wants you to feel. Bravo, Satch! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 19 2006 at 21:49
I know both very well and I must say that Vai's also extremely good at that. He's just more experimental, while Satriani can be annoyingly un-experimental (trying to avoid the word "mainstream" here) at times. But there's a time and place for everything. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 10:21
I think that like many my problem with this you say about Vai is that... he does so much all the time...that you get tired, so you dont listen to him with much atention...while Scratch always does this accesible yet complex melodys... ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 10:23
Its obvious you are just to fanatic to see it... ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: chessman
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 10:33
| Let's not forget Satriani gave Vai some pointers/lessons on guitar years ago...I find Joe quite cold and calculating,and wouldn't put him in my top 20 guitarists really, though he can certainly play. However, he is miles better than Vai, who is the classic 'twiddly-widdly' let's see how fast I can play this thing' guitarist. Emotionless, and quite weak as a songwriter. I had one cd by him, the atrocious 'Passion And Warfare' - great cover, crap music. Joe gets my vote! Blue Dream is his best album. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 11:01
 A year ago I would have responded to this type of prejudiced and objectively wrong post with a ton of arguments. Today - I just let it go, smile and listen to some great music by Steve Vai.------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 11:04
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Joe is an easy choice for me-
Much better song writer
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 11:11
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I guess I'll never understand how fans of progressive music might choose to prefer Satriani over Vai. Maybe I just have to accept the fact that even among prog fans most people don't pay much attention to the actual music. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 15:02
Ouch that's harsh...I like it!...Somebody with the grapefruits to fire back, and against everybody on these boards in one shot!...I do agree with others though, Satriani's a better songwriter (sorry). Vai the student outplays Satriani the teacher (there you go), not really unusual when you think about it...
If Satch had already "peaked" on a personal level in terms of playing skill, and if Vai was as good a student as we think he was, he would have absorbed all of that knowledge & taken it from there. He did go on to play in Zappa's band, there's no better training ground - wonder how many practice hours he logged during that period? I'd prefer to see Vai as "the guitar player" in a band led by someone else, while I'm OK with Satch as band leader (and guitar player)...Satch wins! SSSaaattttccchhhhh wins!
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 15:13
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1. Satch himself admits that Vai could "easily outplay him". 2. Vai was only a student of Satriani for a small period of time. There is no real influence. Zappa is Vai's main influence. 3. Anything Vai did is 10x more adventurous than what Satch did. And mind you: I like Satch. 4. Vai even outsings Satch. 5. Vai worked with a full symphony orchestra (The Aching Hunger). Still waiting for Satch to do something similar. 6. Vai worked with Chick Corea, Mike Keneally, ... he also wrote music for movies, performed in some movies, played in mainstream bands, played as Eddie Van Halen's and Yngwie Malmsteen's successor etc. 6. Vai founded his own record label and is now in that function working with many brilliant artists. 6. Vai performed on the recently released Yardbird album with some all time great artists. Any questions? You're welcome to still say that Satch is better - but then you should be prepared to sweep his recently released album under the carpet.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 15:23
No.
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Posted By: xtopher
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 15:55
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These are all true. Satriani was only Vai's teacher for a short period of time when both were growing up in Long Island (coincidentally, also where John Petrucci is from). In later interviews, Satch said that when he was learning new stuff, he would be teaching it to his more talented students (like Vai) only a few weeks later. However, I still think traces of Satch's influence remains in Vai's playingVai has admitted so himself. As for Vai being more experimental than Joe: I definitely agree with this, and that's why Joe Satriani's not on this site. But Satch is responsible for me getting into prog in the first place: listening to him got me into listening to Steve Vai and Steve Morse, which eventually got me into prog. Perhaps other people don't have the same experience as I do, but I think that the fact that so many people prefer Joe Satriani on a progressive website must count for something. Oh, and I kinda like Super Colossal. It's definitely not his best stuff, but it's still very solid. |
Posted By: xtopher
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 15:56
These are all true. Satriani was only Vai's teacher for a short period of time when both were growing up in Long Island (coincidentally, also where John Petrucci is from). In later interviews, Satch said that when he was learning new stuff, he would be teaching it to his more talented students (like Vai) only a few weeks later. However, I still think traces of Satch's influence remains in Vai's playingVai has admitted so himself. As for Vai being more experimental than Joe: I definitely agree with this, and that's why Joe Satriani's not on this site. But Satch is responsible for me getting into prog in the first place: listening to him got me into listening to Steve Vai and Steve Morse, which eventually got me into prog. Perhaps other people don't have the same experience as I do, but I think that the fact that so many people prefer Joe Satriani on a progressive website must count for something. Oh, and I kinda like Super Colossal. It's definitely not his best stuff, but it's still very solid. |
Posted By: xtopher
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 15:59
I'm sorry about that...  I'm still kinda learning how to use this forum.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 15:59
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I fear that most people who are voting here don't know all there is to know about Vai (or Satriani for that matter) I have pretty much all albums by both of them, and from that perspective I simply cannot believe that it it's reasonable to vote for Satriani here.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: xtopher
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 16:05
It's perfectly reasonable to vote for Satch here, because people are entitled to their opinions. If everyone was supposed to vote for Vai, then why hold the poll? I have nearly all albums by both artists, and I stand by my decision: Joe Satriani. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 16:29
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^ but why? Remember that this poll is in the proto-prog/prog-related section, so progressiveness matters here.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 18:20
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Satch is a better songwriter IMHO, although I love "For the love of God" by Vai.
Vai is technically better. (Malmsteen is technically better than Vai)
But between these two I have to go with Satriani.
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 18:25
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Now, Mike... I'm as much of a Vai fan as you (at least I think so), but I don't think it's quite fair to say that everything Vai did was 10x as progressive as what Joe did. Perhaps these days, it's true, but as far as stretching the boundaries of the instrument goes, Satch _absolutely_ did that early on in his career. In fact, I'd venture to say that Surfing with the Alien is _more_ progressive than Flex-Able. When Surfing With the Alien was released, there were self-developed techniques used that _no_ one else was using at the time. Once Passion and Warfare was released, however... I think the torch had passed. Overall, I still maintain my belief that Steve Vai has progressed the instrument of electric guitar more than anyone since Jimi Hendrix (largely thanks to a huge influence from Zappa). That said, I can definitely understand why people gravitate more towards Joe. Let me make an analogy... some people prefer the minimalism of Philip Glass or Pink Floyd to the density of Gentle Giant or Van der Graaf Generator. Neither preference is wrong... it's just a matter of opinion. This however, is wrong:
------------- Pure Brilliance:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 18:37
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^ I don't know - Flex-Able was very progressive in an Avant-Garde sense, songwriting-wise and as far as experimentality is concerned. I'm a huge Vai fan, and if you prefer Surfing with the Alien, that's quite ok for me. I really enjoy playing the Satch Boogie too ... I'm a lazy guy though, so I'm content with playing the rhythm guitar, and the middle part at slower speed. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 18:44
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Here's a question: Which is your favorite flanged guitar sound out of these two... The midsection of "Satch Boogie" or The end of "Bad Horsie"? "Bad Horsie" for me! Something about the flange in that song tickles my neurons in a way that's almost offensive! ------------- Pure Brilliance:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 18:59
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Surely the sound on Bad Horsie is much more impressive - but that's also a production issue. But Vai's a real perfectionist when it comes to his guitar sound.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 19:22
Yeah, I don't like Passion & Warfare either. Also don't like Flex-able...Also don't like Flex-able Leftovers...Also don't like Fire Garden...Also don't like Alien Love Secrets...Also don't like Sex & Religion (especially that one). I have these cd's, not saying there isn't great playing on them, just saying that I can't listen to them very often cause I don't find 'em interesting...Can't claim to have everything Vai ever released but then again I also don't have everything by Satch either. Why buy all material by someone you don't particularly enjoy?
You-know-who (you know, don't you?) seems to be taking the Satriani votes as a personal affront...It's not...Listening to Satch's Crystal Planet, Alien, Blue Dream & Time Machine I find myself wanting to listen again after a while...Not so with Mr Vai's stuff. However, Vai playing w/Zappa (Can't Do That On Stage series, Guitar, Man From Utopia, Jazz From Hell, etc) with Whitesnake, David Lee Roth, In From The Storm (Hendrix tribute) & Infinite Desire (w/Al DiMeola) I'm enjoying it. The difference? Vai's not the leader or the songwriter, but the guitar player. Perfect role for him!...Besides, allowing himself to get outplayed by a slide guitar player ("Lightning Boy" Ralph Macchio, no less) while "cuttin' heads"...For shame, for shame...OK, so it's really Ry Cooder...Still...
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 20 2006 at 19:23
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I have to agree with Mike (again!). For my money Vai is the better player and songwriter. Just the way the guitar flows like liquid when plays is incredible and, to be honest, I find most of Satriani's work to be a bit repetitive. I must add, now reading the above post, that Crystal Planet is hard to get through even once for me. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 21 2006 at 05:12
So you don't like his style. Seems odd to me considering that you say that you like Zappa, but I respect that opinion.
I don't take it personal. I'm just very sure that it's objectively wrong - from a musical standpoint, not an emotional one. And as for the projects you mentioned - in many of them Vai was also writing his guitar parts and more (In Zappa and Whitesnake he didn't do much writing though). So I fail to see the difference. BTW: Of course you know that Vai wrote - and played - Eugene's trickbag, not Ry Cooder, don't you? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: T.Rox
Date Posted: May 21 2006 at 09:00
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These polls need a place for us fence sitters ... but I'm gonna cast my vote for Vai becuaue I found myself playing more Vai on radio than Satriani.
And as each is entitled to an opinion, I happen to enjoy listen to The Nuge more than either Vai or Satriani. ------------- "Without prog, life would be a mistake." ...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 21 2006 at 22:20
Sure, lots of guitar players write their own parts & that's cool! No problem there. That's very different from writing the songs or being a band's front man. You think someone playing guitar on another's songs & writing those particular parts is the same as writing those entire songs & arranging them, and being the guy whose name's biggest on the marquee?
I was talking about the slide stuff in the movie, and that was played by Cooder. It was Lightning's way of proving that he could play w/a slide what Jack Butler was playing without...The tune you're referring to was the last #, which Vai played...
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 02:57
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Sorry, but the only major projects that Vai participated in and which involved original songs (not covers) were: Zappa Alcatraz David Lee Roth Whitesnake and here we basically have a 50:50 situation - Vai co-wrote most of the songs of Alcatraz and David Lee Roth, but he didn't write any song for Zappa or Whitesnake. If you don't believe me - take a look at the liner notes. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 07:09
You're making my point for me...I like Vai's covers (more than his original stuff in many cases). Don't care for Alcatraz, like some of the David Lee Roth stuff though...Didn't write anything for Zappa? Not a problem, the master was in charge, all he had to do was play guitar...Liking Zappa's material but not Vai's is really not that much of a mystery. Zappa influenced Vai, not the other way around, and Zappa's output is so varied. He's one of the most prolific musicians of our time & a musical genius (not just a great guitar player)...
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 07:25
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So would you prefer the Whitesnake album over the DLR albums - just because Vai didn't write the music?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 12:17
Didn't say that...I like Slip Of The Tongue for Coverdale's vocals and writing by Vandenburg & Coverdale...I like some DLR stuff, but Eat 'Em & Smile as an overall record sucks. For my money, Skyscraper's a much better record (yes, even the Vai tunes)...
Also, some coincidental tie-ins now that we're talking Vai & DLR: His next record after Skyscraper was A Little Ain't Enough featuring Jason Becker. One of Becker's biggest claims to fame is his version of Paganini's 5th Caprice (see video here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8725540685439152718&q=jason+becker - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8725540685439152718&q=jason+becker ) - Eugene's Trick Bag anyone...? Now, check out Becker's arpeggios on Serrana (see video here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6366828499656022533&q=jason+becker - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6366828499656022533&q=jason+becker )...Just in case anyone's thinking that Vai's the only player who can pull off this stuff...And in case you didn't think 2 players could do it at the same time & in harmony: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=543233934324404358&q=jason+becker - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=543233934324404358&q=jason+becker ...
For some perspective, Vai's comments about Satch around the time of G3:
Now with G3, you are working with your former guitar teacher, Joe Satriani. What's that like? Is it a case of the pupil trying to outdo the master? Well, first of all, you do not try to outdo Joe Satriani. From the time I was 13 years old, and I first went to Joe for lessons, I always looked up to him. He always had this musical air about him. His lessons were extremely important for me.
One of the best ways to improve on your instrument, is to have respect for the person who teaches you. It makes you want to do good, and I had just the utmost respect for Joe. My favourite musical experience with another musician is when I am jamming with Joe, because it reminds me of when I was a kid, and how, after three years of lessons, we used to just jam together for the fun of it. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 12:56
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LOL ... 3 things: 1. I mentioned that comparison (Slip of the Tongue - DLR) just to wind you up - mission accomplished. 2. Satriani admits that Vai could play him "against the wall", Vai has nothing but the utmost respect for Satriani. Do you realise that YOU are the guy that is consistently implying that Vai is inferior and Satriani is better? All I said is that Vai is more progressive than most other shred guitarists. All you do is applying the student/master pattern - Vai became a fully fledged musician in the 80s, more than 20 years ago. They are peers in the same domain. 3. Please don't patronize me - I know Jason Becker and MANY more obscure artists. I'm not a Vai fanboy who thinks that Vai is the best technical guitarist, many guys from the classical domain p0wn most rock musicians, and there are also some showcase technical guitarists like Batio who can do certain techniques better than any allround guitarist (and some guys from the Jazz domain like Shawn Lane or Scott Henderson can improvise much better etc. etc.). Neither do I think that Vai is the best songwriter in the world - that title belongs to Mike Keneally. But I am allowed to say that Vai is my favorite guitar based musician, and I say that with pride and confidence.Ok ... can we all be friends now? Do it like Vai & Satriani! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 13:28
OK, I gotta respond to this one (let me just finish off my bloodpressure medicine, just a sec)...
Since when is Jason Becker "obscure"? But by bringing him up, mission accomplished (you've been officially patronized)! What other obscurities can YOU dredge up to make your points about Vai? Nothing TOO obscure please, I gotta drive later...
Don't get "Point" #1...SOTT is a good record, Eat 'Em & Smile isn't, 'scraper has some good tunes on it...And...???
re: "Point" #2 - I never stated that I thought Vai was an inferior guitar player, just an inferior songwriter (yes there's a difference, no really). YOU're the one who downplayed Satch's influence on Vai during his formative period. May I remind you (be glad to): Vai was only a student of Satriani for a small period of time. There is no real influence. Zappa is Vai's main influence...Based on Vai's interviews, doesn't sound to me that he thinks so (I know, I know, he's only patronizing nice guy Satch right?)...Regardless, I don't believe that songwriting was part of the Satriani curriculum & that's what's lacking (to me)...
 Hey, what happened to this (2 days ago)?: A year ago I would have responded to this type of prejudiced and objectively wrong post with a ton of arguments. Today - I just let it go, smile and listen to some great music by Steve Vai...Still smiling? Here's how:
 Sure, you're allowed to say anything you want (last time I checked Bush hadn't quite finished shredding the Constitution yet), but so are others (I'm an "other")...Can we be friends? NEVER! I say it's dueling Ibanez Jem 7-strings at 20 paces, see you at dawn...I'll bet my handgrip's bigger than yours! I'll be the one carrying the slide (might be tough to navigate that blasted extra string though)...
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 13:59
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Jason Becker is "obscure" in comparison to Joe Satriani and Steve Vai. It's really sad and of course to a great part because of his illness. BTW: I won't mention any other guitarists here if your only motivation is to ridicule people. About Eat 'Em And Smile: It's a fantastic album and generally rated higher than Skyscraper. And SOTT is generally rated much, much lower than the fantastic 1987. About the next paragraph of yours: OF course I could answer to that, but I don#t want to descend to bitching level. And about this:
Well, I'm passionate about Vai (and Zappa). And I was bored last night ;-) And about that last paragraph: No offense, but I'd rather jam with peaceful and constructive persons. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 14:06
Now, you two had better calm-diddly-down! Let's all sit down and enjoy
a scoop of unflavored ice milk. Don't enjoy it too much though.. that
would be a sin! ------------- Pure Brilliance:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 14:24
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^ the voice of reason ... of course you're right. But I enjoy a good argument!
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 16:02
My motivation is not to ridicule, remember that you fired first ridicule-wise (always happy to quote you): I guess I'll never understand how fans of progressive music might choose to prefer Satriani over Vai. Maybe I just have to accept the fact that even among prog fans most people don't pay much attention to the actual music...Hey, I've got a right to be bored too! And passionate!! Note the frequent use of exclamation points!!! You must also be bored today, not just yesterday!!!!! I also enjoy a good argument!!!!!!!!!!
I don't like or dislike music based on "general ratings", whatever that means. Presumably you're referring to the music press at large. I'm not so sure that Skyscraper wasn't thought of pretty highly ("generally"), but it's not really worth the time to find out 'cause it ultimately doesn't matter. I do know that it wasn't a big hit commercially, so maybe you're basing your "general ratings" on sales. If so, you got me there...
About the "bitching" paragraph, that's what this whole thread really comes down to doesn't it? I think we all acknowledge that Vai can play the pants off Satch technically, but there's obviously more to it 'cause some folks (like me & at least 28 others in this thread) who grant the technical superiority still vote Satriani (Satch is still up 29 to 23 at last count)...Just tried voting for him again but no dice. Damn those web cookies are good...Damn Good!...Why is this suddenly "bitching" when up to now it was a "good argument"? Surely you're not conceding the songwriting point, are you?
You apparently missed my meaning in my last paragraph...This wouldn't be a "jam", we'd be back in the roadhouse with souls on the line. I've got my mojo, my lucky rabbit's foot & a pocket full of Fender mediums (and a bottle opener in case they serve imports in bottles)...You say you want another ironic twist? The song played immediately after the end of the guitar duel is Satriani's Big Bad Moon...Satch wins again!
"About Eat 'Em And Smile: It's a fantastic album..." - I can just let this stand without further comment. I'm like that...Now let me finish my scoop of unflavored ice milk (thanks Empathy)...
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 16:11
Then why don't you present a few arguments why Satriani is better than Vai from a progressive standpoint? Or do you agree with me on that?
I'm not talking about sales. I'm talking about the combined information that's publicly available - magazines, interviews, ratings (amazon etc.), reviews, my own impression, my guitar teacher's impression etc.
Vai is also a better songwriter than Satriani IN MY OPINION. If you know as much about Vai as you claim you do, you must admit that songs like Tender Surrender, Sisters, Die to Live, Call it Sleep, Fire Garden Suite, Pig, Lucky Charms, Brother, are good songs. So while I don't demand that you agree with me here, you must at least be able to to admit that my opinion is valid too. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 16:11
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Don't make Empathy bring out Mr Flanders again... anyway, the most important thing Satch and Vai have in common is that Allan Holdsworth owns 'em both.
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 16:49
I can finally agree! Still not sure about the songwriting angle though (Satch has a knack for catchy tunes), but I definitely enjoy AH more than either of the others...Also Steve Morse...And Gary Moore...And Michael Hedges...And John McLaughlin...And Al DiMeola...And Jeff Beck...And Hendrix...And Marc Bonilla (American Matador is great - tragically short career)...All for different reasons, of course...
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 16:53
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BTW: Allan Holdsworth now releases his album on Steve's label ... they seem to get along fine. Which brings me to ... the other great guitarists on Steve's label. Ever heard of Greg Koch? Another damn fine musician - and totally different from those that have so far been mentioned in this thread. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 17:36
Sure they do, Stevie doesn't write his material...Ouch, that was uncalled for, I apologize profusely...
Yeah, Favored Nations records has a nice lineup: Eric Johnson, Vernon Reid, Larry Coryell (didn't know he was still alive), Tommy Emmanuel (the "wonder from down under"), Al Kooper (?...doesn't seem to quite fit in with the rest)...Their web site also lists an act called Novecento, can't pretend to know anything about them but it features Stanley Jordan. Now Jordan's not one of my favorite players, but just skill-wise based on raw talent I've always considered him near the top of the heap. A really original approach to the guitar!
Koch & Holdsworth are not listed on their site, so I can't confirm (or deny) that either is recording on Vai's label. Holdsworth was planning a European tour this spring with Alan Pasqua, Jimy Haslip & (the great) Chad Wackerman & playing material from the Tony Williams Lifetime era. That must've been something, assuming it happened...
Greg Koch, let's see...A guitar instructor I believe, heard some tracks from The Grip & Double The Gristle. He's blues-based as I recall, has some ties to Little Feat...? Sounded good...To me (based on the few tunes I heard) he's operating in the same/similar realm as Danny Gatton...You're gonna have to get up pretty early in the AM to outplay Danny when it comes to a fusion of rock, blues, country, jazz & swing (and who knows what else)...If you're not a fan, do yourself a favor & check out In Concert (double-neck teles rule!), Redneck Jazz & Blazing Telecasters...
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 17:45
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As I said earlier.....................................Satchs music is kinda samey to me, and Vai is more creative.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 17:50
wolf0621 ... why are you always questioning my posts? I say "Koch is on Vai's label", you return "I couldn't find any evidence for that". ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 17:52
^
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Posted By: Minkia
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 18:25
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Neither! ------------- RELIGION IS HATE, RELIGION IS FEAR, RELIGION IS WAR,RELIGION IS RAPE, RELIGION'S OBSCENE,RELIGION'S A WHORE |
Posted By: _sam_
Date Posted: May 22 2006 at 18:29
| I say Satriani by just a nose. His music does more for me than Vai's, but I love them both. |
Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 07:53
Take your medicine & relax. Just lookin' for the facts...
 I don't question your posts, I just "calls em as I sees em"...30-23 Neighboreenos...Okali-Dokali Flanders? Minkia, you are the (other) voice of reason...NEITHER it is! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 08:12
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Luckily I don't yet need any medicine. I'll listen to some soothing music instead.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 08:50
| Is it me or...? I hugely enjoy masterful guitar playing in small doses. However, I do like good tunes and arrangements. Too often Vai Satch and let's add Allan Holdsworth will startle with their brilliance of playing, but set in a deathly dull tune. It is almost if they are telling to tell me: 'hey I can make the mediocre sound great'. Too often with these three guitarists I wish they would play great guitar with a great tune; it doesn't happen enough. The recent Satriani album has the class playing but let's be honest, are there any memorable tunes which would meet the the Old Grey Whistle Test? Perhaps the lesson is to follow Hank Marvin and do more covers, but unlike Marvin make the arrangement and playing on the cover better than the original. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 10:05
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Why don't you also listen to the latest Vai album (from last year) and compare them directly?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 18:40
It's not you...There is a propensity for noodling (easy MER, remember I'm only an ignorant fan of prog music not really paying attention to the music) at times, or just playing stuff 'cause you can...Joe Vaisteen has this going on, as do quite a few other guitar slingers...Eric Johnson is an example of a more tasteful & restrained approach, with bursts of that "great guitar" that you're referring to. Al DiMeola's another one, especially his early mid 70's - early 80's material...Steve Morse or John McLaughlin, anyone?
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 18:45
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You always ridicule the artists that you don't like too much, and praise those that you do like. Now what if I say that ALL the guitarists that you mention "noodle" from time to time? BTW: "Vaisteen" is a ridiculous word. IMO the most blatant mistake that one could make is to put these two together. Proof? Watch the G3 DVD with Satriani/Vai/Malmsteen. Wouldn't something like Vaikeneally or Eklaih be more fitting? Or MacAlsteen.------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 19:03
THEY DO??? I stand corrected...I'm humbled by your obvious noodle knowledge (the egg noodles are the best IMO, although I'm also partial to a good spaghetti)...And for the last (?) time, I do like Vai & Satriani as players (and Satch as songwriter), get it? That doesn't eliminate the noodle factor, however...Yeah, I'll take more Eric DiMorseLaughlin penne over here at table 5, thanks...
...And send some wine & cheese over to the guy sitting by himself at table 2, the one wearing the "Vai is God" t-shirt... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 23 2006 at 19:06
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It's just odd to lump Vai and Malmsteen together when discussing guitarists, that's all I'm saying. I'm obnoxious, I know, but i can't help it.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Kleynan
Date Posted: May 25 2006 at 21:17
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Vai... simply for his amazing work on the mediocre movie "Crossroads". That classical guitar sh*t is da sh*t homeboy!!!! ------------- 
You've just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you're more relaxed than you've been in weeks. |
Posted By: Daydreamyng
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 17:30
| Satch is awesome but Vai is more creative. Gotta go with Vai. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 17:42
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Satriani's guitar work in many ways reminds me of Steve Hackett (yes it does!), which is why he gets my vote. of course this only applies to the rock aspect of Hackett, not to his classical aspect
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 18:04
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In terms of technical ability- Vai
In terms of greatest impact and best songwriting- Satch by a mile Satriani is much more important than Vai because of teh various guitarists he taught, including Kirk Hammet, Larry LaLonde, and Vai himself. Satch also makes better songs. Vai, however, is the better noodler. My favorite shredder is Paul Gilbert (I don't consider McLaughlin or DiMeola as shred) because he flaunts his talent in a more restrained way and can write fun songs. Another tops is Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal who may be the most technically skilled guitarist in metal. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 18:20
 ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 18:39
The picture of restraint... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHp9VQAhFuQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHp9VQAhFuQ ------------- Pure Brilliance:
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 26 2007 at 18:44
Reflections = orgasmic.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: kazansky
Date Posted: January 27 2007 at 04:59
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JS ------------- The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us. |
Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 01:50
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Satch is by far the best rock guitarist/composer that appeared in the mid of 80's decade. He created an unique and fresh style based on a multi-guitars work. Vai was another Satch's disciple, and moreover, he received a clear Zappa's influence. As a result, this mix creates a hard and directionless style, sounding like Prog Avant Metal or thing, using some Zappa's styles of composition and some Satch guitar tecniques. Conclusion: Vai is terrific playing guitar, but he is in the wrong way, musically. Joe Satriani remains being the absolute rock guitar god of this era. |