threefates wrote: You left out Symphonic...which includes ELP, Yes and Genesis... so I'm going with the idiot boy selection....

Read my comment.

im new to the italian scene and the canterbury scene

anyone want to give me some key bands for each and a description foreach

Psychedelic/Space rock any day

Lucifer Sam/Siam Cat/Always there by your side, always

That cat's something I can't explain

Zeuhl — A sub-genre of progressive rock created by the French band Magma that is really a unique and very challenging form of jazz fusion incorporating chanting, dissonance and loud rock. Stylistically there are elements of Bartok, Stockhausen, Duke Ellington, and blues shouting.

Sounds rivetting

Must try it sometime....I'll make sure I have a can of petrol to hand in case I want to end it all!

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Thats so true... because if you look at the archives there are quite a few unnamed or not so famous bands in the symphonic sub-genre... so you've left them out only because ELP, Yes and Genesis are in that group...

And yet you've included Psychedelic/Space Rock which Pink FLoyd falls under.. and they are probably even larger than ELP - Yes or Genesis...

I see some sort of bias going on here...

(And Richard, I love your signature!! )

jiggajake wrote: im new to the italian scene and the canterbury scene anyone want to give me some key bands for each and a description foreach

I'm hardly an expert on either of these scenes, but for canterbury check out Soft Machine, Hatfield & The North, National Health and Caravan.  I know even less about Italian, so I won't even go there...

Oh yeah, I voted art-rock...

You're not only leaving out Genesis and ELP, you''re also leaving out:

1. Teru Symphonia (Japan)
2. Magenta
3. Anglagard
4. Par Lindh Project
5. Triumvirat
6. Trespass (Israel)
7. Kansas (At least their 50% symphonic sound)
8. King Crimson (Their first album)

And 100 lesser known bands, so.......

Idiot boy! Why haven’t you included symphonic?

Iván

P.S. Almost forgot, from this list I would go with Italian  Scene, even when most of the famous Italian bands are Symphonic oriented

jiggajake wrote: im new to the italian scene and the canterbury scene anyone want to give me some key bands for each and a description foreach

For the Italians:

1. Premiata Forneria Marconi

progarchives wrote: The pionner of Italian Progressive groups, PREMIATA FORNERIA MARCONI (PFM for short) is one of the leaders of the 70s prog movement. PFM developed a style which is uniquely Italian while maintaining links with the rest of the prog world. A lyrical, romantic and delicate music, full of fineness. A great melodic and instrumental richness, somptuous compositions and arrangements. Sometimes compared with the early KING CRIMSON, the group had its own musical personality, with its elegant music. "Per Un Amico" ("Photos of Ghosts") and "L'Isola Di Niente" as well as their first, "Storia Di Un Minuto" are all virtual classics of progressive music, obviously influenced by early KING CRIMSON and GENESIS yet sounding nothing like them. The instrumentation is superb with fluid guitar, highly original synthesizer sounds, beautiful violin and flute, and ethereal vocals that are so important to the music, that replacing them with English vocals becomes a detriment. "The World Became The World" is another English-language album, but this time with the same music, so it's not as bad as "Photos Of Ghosts". "Marconi Bakery" is a compilation of music from the first three Italian albums. "Jet Lag", from 1977, had much of the original PFM spirit with a jazz inclination, akin to groups such as ARTI + MESTIERI, though somewhat more low-key. "Suonare Suonare" came out in 1980, and saw PFM turning back toward their original sound, from the style of "Passpartu". On "PFM - Live In Japan 2002 (Tokyo)" the band plays classic tunes from the Seventies. A must for all prog fans...!

2. Quella Vecchia Locanda

progarchives wrote: QUELLA VECCHIA LOCANDA is a great Italian prog band of the historic scene, formed in Rome in the early seventies. QVL plays a complex music with a lot of instrumental combinations, beautiful melodies and a very high sophistication. Close to KING CRIMSON. QVL released two albums which are both considered essential releases from that particular scene. The first album is still regarded as a classic in its field, with an original fusion of classical influences and the use of flute and electric violin in evidence. QVL was fairly typical of the style, especially on their second album, "Il Tempo Della Goia", which ranks as one of the finest examples of classical, pastoral Italian symphonic along the lines of PFM, CELESTE, ALUSA FALLAX or LOCANDA DELLE FATE. The group sadly disbanded soon after the second album, leaving us with two more italian progressive gems, both with beautiful covers. Two of the most looked records of Italy!!!

3. Le Orme

progarchives wrote: Excellent early-70's Italian progressive trio (still around today) with classical stylings, featuring keyboards to the fore and a unique dreamy/powerful style. Le ORME was one of the three major Italian groups, the other two being PFM and BANCO. This band is usually considered as the Italian EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER and even BANCO DEL MUTUO SOCCORSO by the Italian singing. Its music is based upon organ developments and soli reminding Seventies groups which works are essentially built upon keyboards parts. The band's truly classic period begins with their third next releases. "Uomo Di Pezza" (1972) is one of Le Orme’s definitive Italian progressive rock albums. Although there is definitely an significant EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER influence here, as in the bombastic Moog and Hammond workouts countered by mellow balladry. It's not quite as integrated a feel as would characterize their next two albums, "Felona E Sonora" and "Contrappunti", though its fantastic nonetheless, and one of Le ORME's three essential albums. "Collage" and especially "Florian" offer a music tinged with classical music. "Felona E Sonora" (1973) is probably one of my top favorite Italian progressive rock albums. "Contrappunti" (1974) is another fantastic Le ORME album, and really the close of their classic trilogy. This album would effectively close out the band's streak of success. "In Concerto" is an excellent live album from 1974 with many unreleased tracks. "Piccola Rapsodia Dell' Ape" is more recent, an excellent mixing of Progressive and Italian baroque music. "Collage" and especially "Florian" offer a music tinged with classical music. In 1993 the Japanese progrock label Crime Records released the 2-CD Live ORME with live-material from '75-'77. An far more captivating document than "In Concerto" from '74. This band has finally returned with a new CD. "Elementi" (2001) is a concept album on the four elements (fire, water, earth, air) all of which will be lost on the listener who isn't fluent in Italian. Personally, Le ORME is one the greatest progressive bands of all time.

4. Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso

progarchives wrote: One of the Italian giants, BANCO DEL MUTUO SOCCORSO defined together with a few majestic bands, a new ground break in the 70's progressive music. The incomparable musicianship of BMS is followed by many Italian bands along the decades until today. The unique voice of Francesco Di Giacomo brings their music to a higher dimension, and the extraordinary keyboard duo performed by Vitorio Nocenzi and Giani Nocenzi structures the perfect foundation for a strong yet beautiful progressive music. "Darwin" and "Io Sono Nato Libero" are real treasures of the progressive music as a whole. "Di Terra" unveils a splendid symphonic course, worthy of similar works such as the ones by PROCOL HARUM. Their style changed a lot over the years, as the band is out there over the decades with an extensive discography. Top Notch Genuine Italian Prog!!!

5. Museo Rosenbach

progarchives wrote: This is a one-shot-band including Pit Corradi (keyboards), Giancarlo Golzi (drums), Enzo Merogno (guitar/vocals), Alberto Moreno (bas/piano) and singer Stefano Galifi. In ’73 they released "Zarathustra" (about Nietzsche’s superman), this album is still considered as one of the masterpieces in the world of progrock. And it’s one of the most sought after "collector items". In ’92 the CD’s "Rare and Unreleased" and "Live" ’72 were released, both interesting but with inferior sound quality. On a MUSEO ROSENBACK site I read about a new line-up with the drummer and the bass player who made the album "Carisch" in 2000. The album "Zarathustra" starts with the magnificent titletrack (five parts, almost 21 minutes). The foundation is a beautiful theme (like in "Firth of Fifth" from GENESIS) that returns in different climates (from dreamy to heavy and bombastic) and with different colouring of the instruments. The interplay between the electric guitar, keyboards (Hammond organ, synthesizer and piano), rhythm-section (propulsive and perfectly timed drumming) and strong and expressive Italian vocals is very captivating. It all creates a constant tension, topped by majestic eruptions of the Mellotron. The omni-presence of this instrument gives the titletrack the same thrilling impact as it does on the early albums from KING CRIMSON and GENESIS! The other three (shorter) tracks sound flowing and powerful with a lot of Hammond organ and guitarplay with echoes from Steve HACKETT. ESSENTIAL!

I like the more soft-edged prog-metal, and neo-prog, also symphonic rock./

I discovered some italian bands play great music, unfortunatly the lyrics means squat to me, but the music sounds great evenso.

Paco Fox wrote: So, where's folk prog? . That is my favourite genre, even above symphonic...

Oooh, what a good sub-genre; Folk Prog. Would that be 'Mostly Autumn' or 'Fairport Convention'?  folk??

Well.. sorry I've offended so many of you! As it happens, ThreeFates, I love good symphonic prog - Yes being one of my favourite bands of all time, so no bias there... Personally though, I'd say symphonic is the root to most Prog, even Canterbury or Zeuhl! You can disagree if you like, but that's my opinion. Seems like it's impossible to have one on this forum without being attacked.

Oh, and the omission of folk prog is an error on my part, I'm afraid. Apologies for that.

Jigga:

Canterbury - Well, each group had a rather different sound, but there's a definite relationship between them. The basic ingredients are jazzy harmonies, a bit of soloing (the amount varies drastically from group to group), often rather structured music with unusual pop sensibilities and a good dosage of humour.

Caravan would be my recommendation if you're generally into symphonic music - not quite as complicated as some, and plenty of meaty solos.

Hatfield & The North were perhaps Canterbury's finest hour. Catchy tunes, silly lyrics, unusual arrangements and lots of time sig changes. Hugely satisfying music.

The Italians - I've only recently started exploring them, but most of them seem to be quite keyboard-heavy groups with a lot of classical elements (and a fair amount of jazz at times too). It's hard to describe what unifies them, but they really do all sound unmistakeably Italian - even without the vocals. (An ability to cope with foreign language vocals should be fitted as standard when trying out these groups, I should warn you). So, of the 20-odd albums I've heard so far I'd reccomend:

PFM - Per Un Amico. A lot of people suggest starting with Storia Di Un Minutuo. However, I think that this one's just much better.

Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso - Darwin! A true masterpiece. Classical moments, extremely cool jazz bits, rocky passages, a brilliant vocalist and a huge helping of je ne sais quoi make this quite simply one of the best albums I've ever heard. If that description makes it sound cluttered/directionless - believe me it isn't. It's the same band from start to finish.

Osanna - Palepoli. Pretty rubbish production on this album but superb music. I especially recommended it if you like VDGG and Tull.

sigod wrote: Paco Fox wrote: So, where's folk prog? . That is my favourite genre, even above symphonic... Oooh, what a good sub-genre; Folk Prog. Would that be 'Mostly Autumn' or 'Fairport Convention'?  folk??

Folk rock is a very difficult genre, because folk stuctures are usually so tight. To call a group folk-prog I usually demand more than Fairport or Steeleye Span. I think these two groups are (very good) folk-rock, but hardly prog.

Folk prog could be what Ian Anderson did in 'Songs from the Wood' and 'Heavy Horses', transcending (specially rythmically) folk structures (cfr, Velvet Green or both title tracks). Also Oldfield's 'Omadawn', The Strawbs' mid.period records...

As with symphonic prog, there are also lots of unknown bands worthy of attention: Pererin, Carol of Harvest, The Morrigan (sometimes)...

And Mostly Autumn, of course

Regards:

Paco Fox

I'm sure we could invent a new genre

Forum-Prog

1. It starts on one lyrical subject but soon ends up just talking about the size of peoples c*cks or their mothers.

2. It sounds very complex but is really very, very, simple.

3. Band members say they're leaving but never do.

4. Mariah Carey guests on vocals on a daily basis.

5. Forum Prog was better in the 70's.