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Today’s Guardian

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17940
Printed Date: March 10 2025 at 03:40
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Topic: Today’s Guardian
Posted By: Syzygy
Subject: Today’s Guardian
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 06:44
There's an interesting article about prog tribute bands in today's Guardian G2 section, including quite a lot about the Musical Box. I've already sent in a short letter about The Progs.

-------------
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom





Replies:
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 06:51
Oo, interesting. Is it JUST prog tribute bands the article is about or rock in general?



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http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/contentChapterView.asp?chapter=309" rel="nofollow - Humanism


Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 07:06
It's written by a classical music festival director, and the title is Genesis Can Be Classical Too. Other branches of rock are mentioned in passing, but the main focus is on prog tribute bands. It's a pleasant surprise - one thing which has always irritated me about The Guardian (my newspaper of choice for my entire adult life) is their extremely negative attitude to progressive rock - I think their editorial policy about popular music has been heavily influenced by NME.

-------------
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom




Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 07:15

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

It's written by a classical music festival director, and the title is Genesis Can Be Classical Too. Other branches of rock are mentioned in passing, but the main focus is on prog tribute bands. It's a pleasant surprise - one thing which has always irritated me about The Guardian (my newspaper of choice for my entire adult life) is their extremely negative attitude to progressive rock - I think their editorial policy about popular music has been heavily influenced by NME.

Hi Chris, maybe you could post the article.

I usually scan the thing and transfer it onto notepad (TEXT form) then copy/paste. It works around 65% of the time.



-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 07:52
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

It's written by a classical music festival director, and the title is Genesis Can Be Classical Too. Other branches of rock are mentioned in passing, but the main focus is on prog tribute bands. It's a pleasant surprise - one thing which has always irritated me about The Guardian (my newspaper of choice for my entire adult life) is their extremely negative attitude to progressive rock - I think their editorial policy about popular music has been heavily influenced by NME.

Hi Chris, maybe you could post the article.

I usually scan the thing and transfer it onto notepad (TEXT form) then copy/paste. It works around 65% of the time.

It's also been published on their website - here's the link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,,1694330,00.html - http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,,1694330,00. html

Enjoy!



-------------
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom




Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 08:26
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/classical/0,12403,,00.html - More classical music and opera features

Genesis can be classical too

Tribute bands have more in common with orchestras than you might think, says classical festival director Meurig Bowen

Wednesday January 25, 2006
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ - The Guardian

Classical music's "period instrument movement" has covered as much ground as music history can throw at it. With a tool bag of gut strings, valveless trumpets, white-noised sopranos and investigative musicology, it has tracked backwards in time from its 18th-century starting point to simulate the music of medieval Parisian troubadours, and forwards to Elgar and Wagner as they might have sounded then. Short of rearing, by barbarous means, some castrati to recreate a night at the opera in Handel's London, where else can the search for musical "authenticity" go?
 
The answer lies not in brilliantly obscure PhDs about harpsichord string lengths in 18th-century Potsdam, or experiments with grain-fed oboists - but it is almost as kinky. It lies in the world of tribute bands.

There are 60 or so Genesis impersonators around the world right now. Lots in middle Europe (a territory where unfashionable rock lives on)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, one each in Brazil and Japan, and several in the UK and north America. They have a certain following, though it is small compared with the crowds their musical parent once enjoyed, and smaller, too, than those of the Beatles, Rolling Stones and Abba stand-ins that seem now to be de rigueur at stately home summer music festivals.

The mother of all (Funnnnnyyyyy!!!)Genesis tributes comes from Montreal, and is a triumph of obsessive dedication to the cause of faithful reproduction. Taking its name from a seminal 1971 track, the Musical Box is a purist Genesis fan's dream. Not only do they restrict their repertoire to a mere five years' worth of the band's 30-year output, they produce as close a sonic and visual facsimile of the band's stage shows from 1972-75 as possible.

Of course, compared with the inspired guesswork that accompanies the "authentic" re-creation of Monteverdi, Bach or Beethoven's work, the Musical Box's task has been easy; rather than dusty scores, beaten-up instruments and performance treatises, there have been recordings and photographs to go on, and, crucially, living musicians and roadies to ask how they did it. (How many classical musos would make their first ride in a time machine a trip to Leipzig to see and hear Bach in action?)>>> Sounds like jealousy to me....

Whereas other bands might use advances in technology to recreate the sounds of the 1970s, the Musical Box go out of their way to be authentic. Ancient keyboard instruments - the eerie Mellotron, the Hammond organ, analogue synthesisers - have been brought out of retirement.

Amplifiers, Leslie cabinets and double-neck Rickenbacker guitars have been reconditioned. It is "period instrument" performance to rival any baroque or classical band. Setting out on one of Tony R Banks's intricately layered keyboard solos with "period" synthesisers rather than a preprogrammed all-in-one keyboard of 2006 is equally as daring as playing an 18th-century horn instead of its modern, valved equivalent.>>> Maybe he suggests the use of krumhorns

The Musical Box is not just about musical verisimilitude. They recreate the lighting design, the stage sets, the running order of a particular concert. Their lead singer, Denis Gagné, sports the regularly changing hairstyles, surreal masks, makeup and costume of his alter ego Peter Gabriel. He even reproduces verbatim Gabriel's bizarre, improvised monologues, which were, and are, required to kill time between numbers while guitars were retuned, synthesisers reset and slideshow carousels restocked.

That this band's musical output is not particularly creative begs all sorts of questions about the difference between reproduction and re-creation, between "tribute" music and covers of originals, and about the effect of elapsed time on what endures and what doesn't.

If popular music continues to be performed after its original creator-performers are retired or dead, it has already become something different from what it was at the point of its creation; the music is no longer the exclusive preserve of its originators.

Two fundamental differences between the cultures of classical and popular music are pop's link between live and recorded performance (the tour to promote the album) and its 50-year history of bands performing their own material. Classical music's notated, published form carries no expectation that its composer will perform it, but with the converse expectation that many different performances will emerge over time. >>> Disagree with this, because most of the classical music he refers to were written before means of copy end engraving means existed!! But Mozart spent months directing the operas he wrote for. And nothing was to day beck then, that Mozart expected his stuff to be still played three centuries later>

The nearest classical music got to the cult of the composer-performer was perhaps the pianists Chopin and Liszt. And the ensembles devoted exclusively to the music of Peter Maxwell Davies, Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Michael Nyman and Steve Martland generate genuine, composer-sanctioned performances. But as Radio 3's Building a Library programme shows, one of classical music's abiding fascinations is the multiplicity of various interpretations a single piece of music can have.

And "interpretation" is an important word here, because the Musical Box's facsimile approach to Genesis's music allows for no such interpretation>>> this is not the MB's goal. They are only verbatim renditions. "Covers" of originals can be much more genuinely creative. Jeff Buckley touches heaven with Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, Brad Mehldau refashions Radiohead, and the secondary artist's personality can, at best, always shine through.

I first came across the Fab Four's Can't Buy Me Love not in its Beatles original, but by singing it as a madrigal at school (I was the pipsqueak treble, the baritone was Bernard Jenkin, now Tory MP for North Essex). With vastly varying degrees of success, there are countless other examples of "popular" music being reborn in more "classical" contexts, or taking on "classic" status - Haydn, Brahms, Mahler and Bartok orchestrating folk songs, chamber orchestral Frank Zappa, symphonic rock transcriptions, concertos fashioned out of Beatles tunes; the London Sinfonietta and Jonny Greenwood reworking Radiohead songs together; G4 making it big with Bohemian Rhapsody; the Australian Pink Floyd Show packing out the Royal Albert Hall with its slick 30th anniversary Dark Side of the Moon concerts.

Genesis from the 1970s - with its lengthy "instrumentals" and highly composed, keyboard-driven harmonic sophistication - is particularly conducive to transcription. It is no coincidence that a Norwegian piano duo has now produced two albums of Genesis arrangements, nor that Tony Banks, Genesis's keyboardist and compositional driving force, issued a orchestral disc in 2004 with the London Philharmonic. >>> I heard the first album of that Norwegian duo but although a curiosity, certainly not that interesting.

The term "tribute band" is a silly one. If the Berlin Phil perform a Beethoven symphony, they are not paying tribute to Ludwig. A new kind of rock ensemble may evolve, dedicated to playing discrete repertoire from across the band divide, the music chosen for its intrinsic merit rather than tribal allegiances. It wouldn't be a tribute band, nor a covers band, but something else - more interpretive, more ... "classical".

ˇ The Musical Box's The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway tours the UK from February 23 to March 5

ˇ The Australian Pink Floyd Show are on tour from March 26 to April 30

 

 

 

Otherwise an worthwhile article!!!

Thanks Chris/Syz



-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 08:36

Interesting article, and more importantly the Musical Box are touring. How did I miss that!!??

I'm going to book a ticket asap.



-------------
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:19
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Interesting article, and more importantly the Musical Box are touring. How did I miss that!!??

I'm going to book a ticket asap.

Saw them three times already!! Once for the Foxtrot tour , the next for SEBTP and last year TLLDOB tour. Impressive, but I have this uneasyness when they go about the Gabriel stories interlude, I think this might go a bit too far!!!

Another thing is the French Canadian singer speaking french to French crowds with a bizarre English accent, since they were doing exactly the shows rthey did in Paris for that tour . >>>> Rather absurd!!!



-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 09:54

Very interesting article. I hadn't realised how much work The Musical Box put into copying Genesis entirely. It must be a bit eerie watching it - like you've travelled back in a time machine.

Here's a question ... if a band only has one style and they stick religously to that style for many years without changing, do they eventually become a tribute band to themselves?



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http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10">



Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 10:13
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Interesting article, and more importantly the Musical Box are touring. How did I miss that!!??

I'm going to book a ticket asap.

Saw them three times already!! Once for the Foxtrot tour , the next for SEBTP and last year TLLDOB tour. Impressive, but I have this uneasyness when they go about the Gabriel stories interlude, I think this might go a bit too far!!!

Another thing is the French Canadian singer speaking french to French crowds with a bizarre English accent, since they were doing exactly the shows rthey did in Paris for that tour . >>>> Rather absurd!!!

I suspect I may feel the same when I eventually see them. I'm not convinced that it's such a good thing to imitiate so closely. I shall reserve judgement until after I've seen them live, but I'm just conscious of the fact that I'll probably never get to see a Genesis show in my life. With or without Gabriel. The Musical Box may have to suffice..

 



-------------
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 10:54
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Interesting article, and more importantly the Musical Box are touring. How did I miss that!!??

I'm going to book a ticket asap.

Saw them three times already!! Once for the Foxtrot tour , the next for SEBTP and last year TLLDOB tour. Impressive, but I have this uneasyness when they go about the Gabriel stories interlude, I think this might go a bit too far!!!

Another thing is the French Canadian singer speaking french to French crowds with a bizarre English accent, since they were doing exactly the shows rthey did in Paris for that tour . >>>> Rather absurd!!!

I suspect I may feel the same when I eventually see them. I'm not convinced that it's such a good thing to imitiate so closely. I shall reserve judgement until after I've seen them live, but I'm just conscious of the fact that I'll probably never get to see a Genesis show in my life. With or without Gabriel. The Musical Box may have to suffice..

Hi Andy,

I must say that with the pirate DVDs and TMB, my thirst to see Gabriel's Genesis has now been quenched for the most part.

One has to turn the page somehow



-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 12:28

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

It's a pleasant surprise - one thing which has always irritated me about The Guardian (my newspaper of choice for my entire adult life) is their extremely negative attitude to progressive rock - I think their editorial policy about popular music has been heavily influenced by NME.

 

I'll stick with the Times (although  Richard Williams departure as rock & jazz editor, over a decade ago to become a sport correspondent for another heavy, was loss never replaced)  - I don't like the Guardian's green spin.



Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 15:21
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

It's a pleasant surprise - one thing which has always irritated me about The Guardian (my newspaper of choice for my entire adult life) is their extremely negative attitude to progressive rock - I think their editorial policy about popular music has been heavily influenced by NME.

 

I'll stick with the Times (although  Richard Williams departure as rock & jazz editor, over a decade ago to become a sport correspondent for another heavy, was loss never replaced)  - I don't like the Guardian's green spin.



Yes, but Richard is such a good sports writer, I'm glad he's there to lighten the load, what with all the fake sheikhs knocking about

I didn't know the Musical Box were touring either. But while I'm in London a few days a week in midweek, their bloody show is on a Friday! Typical!


Posted By: RaphaelT
Date Posted: January 26 2006 at 02:18

 

Hm - do you think that in the future we will go to the philharmoniaes on Fridays to watch a 5-piece classical rock band playing his own interpretation of The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway or Thick As A Brick??

Well, seems like a challenge for future Karajans. Anyway I am into it and would like to go to such concert. I wonder whether tuxedo should be obligatory ??

Nevertheless these article might be detrimental to the prog cause, since it may create among Guardian readers image of progheads as mere copyists.



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yet you still have time!


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 27 2006 at 02:54
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Interesting article, and more importantly the Musical Box are touring. How did I miss that!!??

I'm going to book a ticket asap.

Saw them three times already!! Once for the Foxtrot tour , the next for SEBTP and last year TLLDOB tour. Impressive, but I have this uneasyness when they go about the Gabriel stories interlude, I think this might go a bit too far!!!

Another thing is the French Canadian singer speaking french to French crowds with a bizarre English accent, since they were doing exactly the shows rthey did in Paris for that tour . >>>> Rather absurd!!!

I suspect I may feel the same when I eventually see them. I'm not convinced that it's such a good thing to imitiate so closely. I shall reserve judgement until after I've seen them live, but I'm just conscious of the fact that I'll probably never get to see a Genesis show in my life. With or without Gabriel. The Musical Box may have to suffice..

Hi Andy,

I must say that with the pirate DVDs and TMB, my thirst to see Gabriel's Genesis has now been quenched for the most part.

One has to turn the page somehow

Hi again

It's not specifically Gabriels Genesis I want to see. I'd settle for any line up, even the trio with Steurmer and Thompson would be better than nothing...



-------------
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 27 2006 at 04:25
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Hi Andy,

I must say that with the pirate DVDs and TMB, my thirst to see Gabriel's Genesis has now been quenched for the most part.

One has to turn the page somehow

Hi again

It's not specifically Gabriels Genesis I want to see. I'd settle for any line up, even the trio with Steurmer and Thompson would be better than nothing...

I Turned down a chance to see them in the 80's three times

and did so again with Collins gone and Ray Wilson singing and from what most of my friends who did go tell me, I was the wise one



-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword



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