Pink Floyd, an open discussion
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Topic: Pink Floyd, an open discussion
Posted By: Winter Wine
Subject: Pink Floyd, an open discussion
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 12:45
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Due to a couple of heated debates i've seen in the last while on Pink Floyd, i've decided to start a discussion that has no overall question, i'm not narrowing anything down, just leaving the thread wide open to everything Pink Floyd. Here's how I feel about the famous Floyd... I love them. They're truly one of the most innovative, breathtaking bands in the business.I have nearly every Floyd record released! And I would rate them something like this -
There's lots of people who are unfair to this group. Ok so some people lose the head and say "Dark Side of the Moon is the best album EVER" but either way, Pink Floyd deserve a lot of credit for what they've achieved. Give me your thoughts, experiences and opinions on the band. I'd love to hear them all NARROW MINDED FLOYD HATERS ARE NOT WELCOME SO P*** OFF!!!!!!!! ------------- My computer's broke |
Replies:
Posted By: hawkbrock
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 12:54
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You rated A momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell higher than Piper at the gates of Dawn? What the f**k is this? Sick joke! TDB and AMLOR come from that gloriously sh*te era when Dave Gilmour was dredging the barrel seeing exactly what sh*te he could produce and still make money (usually from gullible yanks who didn't know the difference anyway) using the Pinko Floyd franchise... sick tacky crap music, ages much worse than Piper... AMLOR is a 2nd rate 80s porno soundtrack with about 2 good ideas... The obligatary "hit single" was Learning to Fly, a god awful synth driven piece of 80s cack with a good video, so naturally to the new found materialistic earless Pink Floyd Franchise fan, this was good yeah? Remember P.U.L.S.E? 3 sad old men, a bunch of bemulleted session musicians and an excellent lazer show becuase the music was either flogging past glories or new and completely unlistenable sh*t of the worst nature? ------------- 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 12:58
I love them. I never really listened to the pre-DSOTM albums though, or Animals. But I'm listening to Meddle and Animals now! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to: 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 13:00
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Each to his own. Perhaps he just likes Neo Prog more than you? The post-Waters PF albums have much in common with Neo Prog. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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hawkbrock wrote:Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 13:02
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The more influence Waters had the better Floyd was. Post-Waters is just generic AOR. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Winter Wine
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 13:03
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Yeah, and I bet i'm not the only one Have you actually LISTENED to The Division Bell. The songs are so powerful. If this didn't have the Pink Floyd name on it (Actually I don't think it does heh) you wouldn't be moanin much. Such Clarity and perfection to that album, it'll never sound old. Piper... does slightly. As for the MONEY part. Yeah like they already didn't have enough money ------------- My computer's broke |
How many copies of DSOTM has been sold? Recently Gilmour turned down a 150 MILLION!!!!!!! deal to do another tour. So your arguement is pretty crappy, especially the way he gives a lot of his dosh to charity Posted By: hawkbrock
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 13:04
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well thats one way of putting it... -------------
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 13:18
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I agree with allmost everything the only thing i dont agree with is 3 star to Piper and 4,5 to The wall bothe of em are 5 star. ------------- 
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Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 13:30
essentials highlighted ------------- 
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Posted By: ummagumma08
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 13:37
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ah, Pink Floyd, the first prog band I liked...
Yes pre 'Dark Side Pink Floyd' is what I prefer the most, and I also have a very hard time 'accepting' Piper rated lower than Momentary and Division Bell, but personal tastes differ, nothing I can do about it, but I find it very strange! |
The worst piece of uninspirering and boring material I've ever heard
Posted By: Froth
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 13:57
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I'm not very keen on the last two Floyd albums... They just lack whatever it was that Roger gave to them, although there are some nice bits on 'the Division Bell' like 'wareing the inside out' and 'Cluster 1'. Personally, my favourite Floyd Era is 'Saucer full of Secrets' to 'Obscured by Clouds'. They were really experimental then. 'Ummagumma' is a master piece and that live version of 'Saucer Full of Secrets' is probably my favourite Floyd song. I deffinatley need to by 'More' sometime... |
Posted By: glass house
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 14:13
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Last night visited a friend. He played the In The Flesh live dvd . I was blown away, never heard it before. Pigs on the wing-part 1, Dogs and It's a miracle are great ! Even though that is Water's dvd but the Pink Floyd songs are classics. Listen to them for years now and never grow tired of them. Recently discoverd Animals again, and I played it a lot the last few days. Love it. Wish you were here still the favorite. Unique band !!
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Posted By: Winter Wine
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 14:20
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Anyone see the Pink Floyd critical review dvd? ------------- My computer's broke |
Posted By: Winter Wine
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 14:25
You would rate A Saucerful of Secrets over Dark Side and Wish You Were Here?! Hmmmmm, I wonder if that's only because of the success those records had.... ------------- My computer's broke |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 14:30
Just watched Floyd at Live 8 - awesome 
Wish You Were Here - best prog album of all time IMO - I like it anyway - feel free to think otherwise  ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Yanns
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 15:26
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Horza, I might agree with you there. WYWH is one of the, if not the, best prog albums of all time. |
Posted By: Winter Wine
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 15:48
Wonderful album. Thank God you didn't say Ummagumma ------------- My computer's broke |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 16:08
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^I will say Ummagumma, but as my favorite Floyd album
My journry into rock music(long before I discovered prog) started with them, but it took years to appreciate the early stuff Ummagumma will eat you! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 16:21
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Well Floyd ehe? Im just listening to atom heart mother...what a coinsidence. Well they are great band, with some of the ebst lyrics I have ever read. I admire Roger Waters way of saying the thing he is not ok with...Pretty strange that the are the most popular prog band...and at the same time one of the least virtuoso...but I guess there is no room for virtuosism in Floyd music, right? Better this way! I heard that Gilmour isn´t really into prog...and as a matter of fact I have also read (in this site) that he hates prog...so I must ask myself...does he even like Floyd? Because maybe he is just an oportunist, who saw a band in which he could make some real bucks and maybe writte one of two song more in his style...so...what is the deal with Gilmour? ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Rust
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 16:52
Essentials highlighted I rated out of a possible 10 points instead of 5, to be more accurate. About whether I prefere Waters era or Gilmour, I would have to vote Waters since there are clearly more orriginal ideas and more albums. Gilmour era is not bad just lacking some due to new ideas and concepts but overall is a nice ending to a band. I think Syd was a genious among opening his mind and being orriginal. Roger was the master of conceptual ideas and looked at the grand picture of things, not focusing on detail, and I like that. Rick is a great player no matter what any of you say, he had more feeling than Emerson even though he was slower. Gilmour is a great player and writes decent songs by himself, and Nick was essential to the band because he helped Roger with ideas and concepts although he also failed to get into details. As a drummer he absolutely fits the style of the band and is perfect for being a Pink Floyd drummer. Roger is an average bassist who could use a little more teaching, but overall fits the bands style, he was and still is a great song writer. It's to bad the band didn't work together more, it is clear that they were best when they did. To many albums suffer from the band working seperately and not helping eachother contribute ideas in the studio, but in concert no one could touch them, they worked great together in concert for some reason. Meddle is my favorite, it is the album when they finnally get the accoustic sound right. Their experimentation and jamming techniques are perfected in "One of these days" and "Echoes" as well as "Seamus". Double bass techniques, wind machines, gut-wrenching guitar solo's, dogs that are adding the perfect element of sadness to a blues song, experimental guitar and organ sound effects, slow motion voices, and even voices from a football game to give backing support the the claim that "you will never walk alone", not only is that prog thinking but it is played in a way that only a prog artist can play it. Lyrical perfection is acheived when it comes to imagery, metaphor, and feeling. This album is also a great example of each member working together collaboratively without any anger among them being apparent, unlike any of the later albums. Human emotion is perfectly presented. Emotions such as sadness, happiness, humor, anger, optimism, loneliness, laziness, confusion, jealousy, and love are presented musically in a way that touches the soul that no other album can do for me. I promise each and every one of these emotions is shown, whether it be through lyrics, sound effects, or in the music itself and if you don't believe me go ahead and find them yourself. That preety much is my review for my favorite album by my favorite band. Second favorite would be a tie between the other essential albums I highlighted. ------------- We got to pump the stuff to make us tough from the heart Its astart What we need is awareness we cant get careless Mental self defensive fitness Make everybody see in order to fight the powers that be |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 17:12
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Floyd is great. The Live 8 concert was great. I saw the Momentary Lapse Of Reason tour - you guessed it, it was great. It neder saw a concert that made a bigger impression on me than that one. Even without Waters. My faves (cliche cliche): Live At Pompeii Dark Side Of The Moon Wish You Were Here On their high moments, they were very high. Spine chilling, very original, always high on emotion.
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Posted By: Rust
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 17:14
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^Yep, you got that last part right. ------------- We got to pump the stuff to make us tough from the heart Its astart What we need is awareness we cant get careless Mental self defensive fitness Make everybody see in order to fight the powers that be |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 17:33
That's not exactly conducive to open discussion, now - is it? |
Posted By: Froth
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 17:52
Chill out! He can like Saucer Full of Secrets if he wants! |
Posted By: Winter Wine
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 17:56
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^ Yeah sorry Froth I REALLY lost the head there didn't I? I need to relax, take my pills. ------------- My computer's broke |
Posted By: Laurent
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 17:59
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Floyd are firmly among my top 3 favorite bands. My top five Floyd albums, in the following order 1.Animals 2.WYWH 3.DSOTM 4.Meddle 5.AHM ------------- 
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Posted By: Winter Wine
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 18:00
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EXTREMELY close to mine ------------- My computer's broke |
Posted By: Ben2112
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 19:53
Nope, you're not the only one! I love TDB too, but it does contain what is possibly my least favorite Floyd song ever, Take It Back. The rest of the album is sublime... |
Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 20:09
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 22:55
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Pink Floyd songs are an important part of my life's soundtrack. The first prog album I bought was Floyd's and I have liked them since although I think I may discern when sometimes they did some flaws - very few IMO, and be critical upon. WYWH, The Wall and the duo AHM and Meddle are the best Floyd albums for me! ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 23:03
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Dark Side was their most commercial album ever. If we judge by sales, greenday and Britney spears own every prog band. The early albums had the most creativity and inspiration. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 21 2006 at 23:34
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1. WYWH
(IMHO) ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: alan_pfeifer
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 00:07
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I have Dark Side and Wish you were here, and if I'm in the mood I'll put one of them on. After those two, I felt like Waters went a bit too self-indulgent and Gilmour was forced to save the band. But I do like them. |
Posted By: transend
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 00:41
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Love them.... For me;- 1. In the flesh -Oakland, CA- 5/9/77 2. Animals 3. Wish you were here 4. The Wall 5. Dark side of the moon 6. Atom heart mother 7. Meddle 8. The Final cut 9. Obscured by clouds 10. The division bell |
Posted By: Cluster One
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 00:43
Pink Floyd is overated...
------------- Marmalade...I like marmalade. |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 00:48
what's so bad about ummagumma?  here are my 3 fav. from the band: 1. The dark side of the moon 2. Ummagumma 3. Wish you where here ------------- 
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Posted By: Lateralus_66
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 01:25
Some PINK FLOYD facts:
ANATHEMA AYREON DEAD SOUL TRIBE DREAM THEATER FATES WARNING O.S.I OPETH PAIN OF SALVATION QUEENSRYCHE RIVERSIDE SHADOW GALLERY SUPERIOR TOOL ARENA CARPTREE COLLAGE EVERON ILUVATAR IQ MAGENTA MARILLION PALLAS PENDRAGON RPWL GLASS HAMMER THE FLOWER KINGS PORCUPINE TREE THE SECRET MACHINES ........... ... just detailing a few... We are talking about a  band.  ------------- "A mind is like a parachute. It does'nt work if it's not open." - Frank Zappa |
Posted By: dunguinha
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 02:03
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Pink Floyd was really good till The Wall ... the other albums I don't like much, it seems that they lost their inspiration ... anway they are my favourite band =) ------------- 1 - The Dark Side of the Moon - PINK FLOYD 2 - Crime of the Century - Supertramp 3- Close to the Edge - YES |
Posted By: Winter Wine
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 05:50
At least you've got a sense of humour about it ------------- My computer's broke |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 05:55
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Are you implying something Good job rating the stuff, Winter Wine, although I don't agree with you on "Meddle", "Echoes" (what else?) being the only good song from the album. |
Posted By: Winter Wine
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 05:59
Well first of all thank you But I believe that "One Of These Days", and "Fearless" are two excellent Pink Floyd tracks that get overlooked ------------- My computer's broke |
Posted By: hawkbrock
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 08:16
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Crock of horse sh*te. Made without band's consent, basically a promo for this band Mostly Autumn... terrible. -------------
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Posted By: Cygnus X-1
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 10:25
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Pink Floyd are awsome. I am limited in the albums I have heard: DSOTM, Animals, WYWH, The Wall, the final Cut, but from what i have heard i can saftely say I love their music. I recently saw the wall film and thought that was brilliant. Meddle is next on my list to buy ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Bodins/?chartstyle=DarkSide5Big"> 
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Posted By: moodyxadi
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 11:35
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So TFC is the better Floyd album? You're kidding! |
Posted By: Rust
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 12:20
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Some of you people are to critical on others opinions about better albums. I love Seamus, The Final Cut (album), post Waters albums, and Ummagumma. I'm sure many of you dissagree with me. Winter Wine, I dissagree with you about your opinions, just so you know. ------------- We got to pump the stuff to make us tough from the heart Its astart What we need is awareness we cant get careless Mental self defensive fitness Make everybody see in order to fight the powers that be |
Posted By: Winter Wine
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 12:38
Ummagumma is NO masterpiece but it has its moments. What's the point in arguin over Seamus? It's just a blues number with a dog wailing, big deal. I like the final cut, very interesting album with as I said a great message, only few songs stand out though and musically it in no way matches Dark Side, Meddle or Animals. And I quite like the post Waters albums just like you ------------- My computer's broke |
Posted By: Biggles
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 13:01
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I've never really seen what the big deal with TPatGoD is. It's a pretty good 60s psychedelic pop album, but even in its own time that was still all it was, and it didn't particularly stand apart from all the other 60s psychedelic bands as being anything truly exceptional or original. I'm afraid that in the psychedelic pop/rock field, The Beatles, Cream, and Hendrix were the true masters, not Floyd. In the atmospheric prog rock of the 70s, however, Pink Floyd were giants. ------------- The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe. http://www.last.fm/user/sbonfiglioli/?chartstyle=red"> 
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Posted By: Rust
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 13:11
What's the big deal of a dog crying during a blues number? The dog's crying perfectly represents sadness and the idea of combining a dog to cry during a blues song is prog. Blues is about being sad and the dog adds an element of pain and saddness that no other instrument can do. I think Ummagumma is a masterpiece. The playing and song writing has much improved since Piper. I love every second of it. The live disc is perfect in every single way. Each song is a perfect representation of space rock, jamming, and prog, and is full of pure emotion. It is incredible how good each song is especially considering they were made live by only the 4 of them. The Final Cut has all the emotion to be almost equall if not better than Darkside, Animals, and Meddle. Musically I love it. Every second is touching and I can feel Roger's painfull lyrics, Dave's perfect solos, the somber orchestra. The only reason I think of it lower than the seventies classics is because it can seem a little monotonous to me sometimes, but it is still emotionally perfect. Like I said the only musical flaw I can see on the album is the monotonous sound, but atleast Roger knew what direction he wanted the music to go in and he did a great job of it. ------------- We got to pump the stuff to make us tough from the heart Its astart What we need is awareness we cant get careless Mental self defensive fitness Make everybody see in order to fight the powers that be |
Posted By: Rust
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 13:28
Your view of Piper is wrong to me. I see Piper as a perfect example of 60's prog and Syd as a leader of progressing music and a genious. How can you say Piper wasn't exceptional or orriginal? Have you not listened to the album? It is full of orriginallity and tasteful thinking and playing. If you say the Beatles were more prog than Syd then I'm going to have to disagree with you. The Beatles stuck to one formula, that was, short pop songs without improvision or orriginality. Sure they were orriginal at first but when you just keep writing stuff that you have preety much already written then it becomes less and less orriginal. The Beatles pushed musical bounderies and opened the door for many other artists but they weren't that different from all the other stuff going on at the time. I would like to see the Beatles write a 16 minute song like "Interstellar Overdrive" with so many chords and improvision and play it live. How many instrumentals did The Beatles do? I think the answere can be counted on one hand. If you want to talk about Pink Floyd being "pop" then don't even try to compare them to artist that were truely the essence of what "pop" really means like The Beatles, Cream, or Hendrix, these artist are not true masters of progressing music, they did however make some great music. Do I even need to remind you that Pink Floyd were the first to put a totally instrumental song that was over 4 minutes long full of true improvision making Hendrix look like a calculated guitar player? Find me any other band that would even take the chance of editing and writing their own instrumental over the standard 3-4 minute song and put it on the record when the record companies fully advised them not to do it and that it would be too risky. Who was more influential? The Beatles, Hendrix. Who was more progressive in the late 60's and actually took chances when it came to writing music? Pink Floyd ------------- We got to pump the stuff to make us tough from the heart Its astart What we need is awareness we cant get careless Mental self defensive fitness Make everybody see in order to fight the powers that be |
Posted By: Winter Wine
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 14:49
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How can you say the Beatles stuck to the same formula?! They pretty much re-invented themselves about four times! The songs they wrote surpass a LOT of what is on "Piper.." I mean I don't even feel the need to prove that because it is blatantly obvious my friend... "Insterstellar Overdrive" is interesting at first but then it starts to become increasingly annoying, and soon pierces your brain. It gave them "space" to improvise around live alright but I wouldn't call it a masterful original instrumental as you pretty much did. Interstellar Overdrive is one of THE most aggravating tracks I have EVER heard, there's NO melody, NO memorable tune, and it drags like a chain smoker. I mean,I don't really care that much as I find there is much better stuff on "Piper.." but that is REALLY blowing things out of proportion. "Hendrix, a calculated guitar player"..... Jesus Christ. ------------- My computer's broke |
Posted By: Rust
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 15:50
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First of all I am entitled to my opinion, and that is that I enjoy Interstellar Overdrive and second, I said the amount of improvion on that track is enough to make Hendrix look like a calculated player. Third, all those times that the Beatles are said to "reinvent" themselfs, they had only done it once by the time Piper came out, and I don't think the songs during 67 surpassed Piper. Sure the songs on Sgt. Pepper might not seem typical, but that's just barely. A few songs have different time signatures than most of that time period, so what? They have a french horn section in one of the songs, so what? They have a melotron in a song or two, so what? Did they really progress their sound that much? I think not. Piper firmly established Pink Floyd as a major band of that time and was much more innovative, inventive, immaginative and instrumental than Sgt. Pepper, and it was only thier debut. You say the Beatles changed their sound after Sgt. Pepper, ya your right, they changed it straight back to what we saw in Revolver. Hardly groundbreaking and nothing different. Oh my, you have a piano in some very short songs that are connected together to make another very short suite, wow! Now is that groundbreaking? I think not. Hendrix and Beatles are much more pop than Pink Floyd was. Beatles reinvented their sound four times, big deal. Pink Floyd reinvented their sound, and all of rock for that matter, lets see, I count fourteen times. ------------- We got to pump the stuff to make us tough from the heart Its astart What we need is awareness we cant get careless Mental self defensive fitness Make everybody see in order to fight the powers that be |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: January 23 2006 at 03:30
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I don't have a lot Pink Floyd albums but based on what I have heard so far I can honastly call them an essential prog. band.The title track on Saucerful of Secrets is not my favourite though. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 23 2006 at 08:01
The Beatles went from "Love Me Do" to "A Day In The Life" in 4 years. That's progression! "Pink Floyd reinvented all of rock 14 times" - you're going to have to expand on that one! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 23 2006 at 08:28
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Ah, one of those great 'open discussion' threads!.. My take on the Floyd is generally a favourable one. They were the first prog band I ever listend to. That was before I knew what prog rock was. I got 'The Wall' for Christmas back in about 1981/2 and loved it immediately. Since then I've slowly put together a Floyd collection that still has some gaping holes in it, but generally keeps me amused and satisfies the odd craving for a Floyd fix. The albums I have I rate like this.. Atom Heart Mother ** ..and of course they are brilliant live! ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Rust
Date Posted: January 23 2006 at 19:17
Mabey I did over elaborate a little when it came to Floyd progressing music 14 times, but they did progress their own sound atleast 14 times with each new studio release. I would say they progressed rock 6 times, most of those 6 being Darkside and after. The Beatles might have progressed music during the early 60's but during the later part of that decade when many other worthy prog bands, including Pink Floyd, emerged it is a fact they progressed music more than the Beatles. The Beatles did have 4 albums in the American top 100 best selling album chart, which proves my orriginal point, that they were more pop than Pink Floyd and made "popier" music as opposed to Floyd during the late 60's. I believe the Floyd were more prog than the Beatles were. ------------- We got to pump the stuff to make us tough from the heart Its astart What we need is awareness we cant get careless Mental self defensive fitness Make everybody see in order to fight the powers that be |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: January 25 2006 at 22:22
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Ahh.....Pink Floyd. Quite possibley my favorite band. When I first heard Floyd, It was Darkside of the moon. I didn't like it! I think I wasn't paying attention to it's awesomness, but soon they began to grow on me until they took over my mind. Now I have Pink Floyd Books, poster, and t-shirts. My favorite album is Piper at the Gates of Dawn (duh!). An incredible album indeed. Syd was a genius. I like the period from Saucerful to AtomHeart Mother the too. Not as a great as Piper, but more straitforward. Regardless, they were just as intresting. Then there classic era came up. Just as good, but even more 'normal'. I love all eras of floyd except for the Final Cut and after. They get me there. I can't stand those albums, not at all like classic, spacey, psychedelic floyd. As for whether I side with Waters or Gilmour, I can see both sides, but I don't want to pick and choose. They both have reasons to complain. They need to stop there griping. Thats all I have to say now. Shine on Syd! -------------  
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