I predict that this thread will get at least 40 replies and you won't be any the wiser at the end!

As for what I think...umm...pass 

It is about a lamb, and it lies down on Broadway. Then the story veers off at a tangent. Ultimately the lamb buggers off.

Simple really!

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1665&PN=4 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1665&a mp;PN=4

we did talk about this at least once, but like rh said, no real conclusions.

partly beacuse we didn't really go into much depth , but also because it is such an abstract work that different people are bound to come away with different perceptions.

I will say for certain what it is NOT: it's not allegory, or fable, or anything that comes to a specific conclusion about the world. Nor is it a mystery-type narrative, where the pieces come together to show you the author's intended answer.

It could be a spritual journey, like Hesse's Sidhartha, except that the phases the main character goes through do not seem to lead to any real spritual discovery at the end. The imagery is often religious in nature, and it would help to research elements of mythology...but it won't provide much more than reference. Certainly Lilith and the Lamia, for example, have different functions in the story than they do in their original settings.

Mr. Gabriel also seems to be examining sexuality in a number of places. There's a lot of temptation and semi-erotic imagery in the lyrics. There aren't too many other works that deal with the main character losing his genitalia (even Hemingway's "The Sun Also Rises", the only other work that immediately comes to my mind, was accidental rather than voluntary).

I personally find that the most frustrating element is that of the brother.

It was the ambiguity that drew me to it too, and what makes it one of my all time favourite rock albums.

Reed Lover wrote: It is about a lamb, and it lies down on Broadway. Then the story veers off at a tangent. Ultimately the lamb buggers off. Simple really!

I agree with Reed Lover on this one. If you stick to his advice you won't go far wrong .

Incidentally, someone did point out that inside the original gatefold LP, the first line was 'Keep your finger out of my eye as I write' and if you turn over the back cover while still holding the LP, your fingers are resting over 'Rael's' face.

Probably coincidence but it seemed liked fun at the time....

tuxon wrote: The lamb could also lie himself down on a butchers table, but then it would ended up being a single instead of the double-album it became.

I own one in mint condition.

YO! i know exactly what "the lamb" is about. Just read the liner notes in the side of the CD case and maybe look a little harder online.

Liner notes are at http://userpages.umbc.edu/~dkelly2/74the_lamb.html - http://userpages.umbc.edu/~dkelly2/74the_lamb.html  if you don't have them in your CD case

Full annotations are at http://www.skwc.com/essent/genesis.html - http://www.skwc.com/essent/genesis.html  just click "download the PDF file" and go to page 396. The annotations begin there. VERY VERY COOL STUFF HERE. I just bought "the lamb" yesterday and it was AWESOME. Grade A prog when you understand what it means.

You could also read my shortened version of annotations in the reviews of "the lamb" on this very site. It's sort of a shorter summary of the stuff I've researched

bump

penguindf12 wrote: YO! i know exactly what "the lamb" is about. Just read the liner notes in the side of the CD case and maybe look a little harder online. Liner notes are at http://userpages.umbc.edu/~dkelly2/74the_lamb.html - http://userpages.umbc.edu/~dkelly2/74the_lamb.html  if you don't have them in your CD case Full annotations are at http://www.skwc.com/essent/genesis.html - http://www.skwc.com/essent/genesis.html  just click "download the PDF file" and go to page 396. The annotations begin there. VERY VERY COOL STUFF HERE. I just bought "the lamb" yesterday and it was AWESOME. Grade A prog when you understand what it means.

I prefer my prog to be mystical undecipherable bollocks,thanks very much!

After 'Close to the Edge' my favourite album. Have my own subjective ideas on the conceptual meaning but that's what makes these things great.

HaroldTheBarrel wrote: The Lamb is basically about a boy's love for his adorable dog. His dog's name is fluffy; she is a cocker spaniel. She is mild tepered and enjoys long walks on the beach. One time Bill (the boy) got poison ivy and it was very unpleasant. Fluffy, however, did not get poison ivy. There was a pharmacy near Bill's small yet cozy home that sold a sort of candy not sold in most corner stores, and Fluffy took him here to sample this candy, in an effort to cure his inconceivably devastating and often itchy malady. This candy successfully cleared up the poison ivy, BUT it turned him into an awful poet. Bill began writing terrible poem upon terrible poem, which contributed to the heart problems suffered by the dictator of Latveria, and resulted, interestingly enough, in the liberation of that country's people. However, he never knew this. On and on the abysmal verse went until finally Bill could bear the burden no longer and droppedd to his knees, begging Fluffy to end his suffering (along with everyone else's). Now, Fluffy loved Bill dearly, and gazed into his eyes as he said this. She could not bear the thought of living without her dear owner and companion, but his pain was so great, she could not help but oblige. Fluffy leapt fowards, burying her fangs in Bill's throat and toar out his esophagus, along with several of his more important veins and arteries. She proceded to feast upon these entrails, as sort of a demented canine eulogy to her kind and forbidden love. Shortly thereafter she dragged the corpse into their back yard and burried it beside the begonias and lilies in their fantastic garden. The dog continued to pay Bill's bills and taxes, so that no one would notice his absence, though it would occur to her in her old age that no one would have missed him anyways. Anyhow, Fluffy died a reasonably content and respected dog at the ripe old age of seventeen, having published a few books of poetry and short fiction herself; mostly quite well received by critics. She was burried in France, next to Jim Morrison, because Morrison had so enjoyed her second anthology of sonnets (entitled "barking at the World") that he had requested this double-plot in his secret will, which only John Densmore knew of. On disk of the lamb, Derek Shulman is taking a respectful stroll through this cemetary and happens upon Morrison's grave. Next to it he is shocked to find Fluffy (his all time favourite poet and admittedly the prime inspiration in forming his popular progressive rock band "Gentle Giant")'s grave. He called over his good friend Kerry Minnear, also a fan of Fluffy's, and they wept. The second disk is an exploration of the emotions experienced by Shulman and Minnear as they mourned over the grave of Fluffy: truly the greatest poet of our time. And that is why "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" is the greatest album ever. THE END.

kinda far out...

dude..

penguindf12 wrote: Fragile, you really ought to have the Fragile album cover as your avatar...it just makes sense...

It does make sense and I did Penguindf12  and The Lamb still makes the same sense too.

thank you...

Fantômas wrote: The story is pretty crappy, but it's the only decent Genesis album, IMO.

haven't seen you in a while Fantomas (my mirror image) how are you?

newWorld wrote: I'm sure this topic has come up before.  Or maybe I'm wrong and it belongs on a literary arts forum.   Anyhow, I've been listening to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway by Genesis lately.  I want to know what this album is about; it seems very thick with symbolism.  I've looked over the internet and have not been able to find in depth coverage of this album.  Does anybody have any idea what this album is really about?  I get lost after "Grand Parade."  Any input would be much appreciated.

The Lamb is a tough cookie to crack.  Unlike the Beatles who could pull off something abstract like Yellow Submarine and get away with it 'cause they're The Beatles, Genesis did not have that clout so we don't have a film.

Genesis had a problem with trying to popularize their abstract, very artsy, music and I would say that the Lamb is an attempt towards that end although the second side is very surreal.  The lyrics and idea are still very abstract but Gabriel uses a lot of rhyme schemes and familiar everyday (very real) images. The problem is that there is no narrative to follow and without a film to give us that narrative, we are left on our own.

The Lamb is an epic, an adventure story taken by Rael. Usually a writer will give a a clue to the meaning of a work in the names of people in the work.  Rael might look like another word, for example.  The Slipperman is another.  Don't let the language fool you just enjoy it.  If it sounds funny it is supposed to be funny.  "Dock the dick" is just what you may think. 

I would say that the underlying idea that you should think of is in the most popular chorus "we've got to get in to get out." There's a reason why that is the most unforgettble chorus.  If it sounds important it is important. Seeing the movie Quadraphenia may also help because I hear a lot of  the soundtrack and the story as well in The Lamb.

Genesis had toured supporting Lou Reed in 1973. NY was bankrupt and all the images that conjure your mind when you think of NY are in the lyrics. Prog from 1968-1973 is pretty comfortable with its romantic, escapist notions.  After 1973 it becomes less comfortable with that aspect of the music.  Its listeners are growing up after all. If you were 18 in '68 you are now 25 in 1975.

I hope that helps a little.

I think the lamb is Johnny Rotten. He was a Gabriel's creation anyway.

gentletull wrote: I only really like half the songs alot, but there is some real cool stuff. But I gotta say Gabriels vocals are pretty mediocre on this album

Gentletull when do you get out of the asylum you are currently frequenting you have dissed the fabulous Porcupine Tree and now you are deserving the guillotine Gabriel's voice is outrageously brilliant on the Lamb, my fave Genesis album.I fear the magic boomerang has whacked you on the head.Still, you like half of it. I'll make sure your change over nurse is pretty.

 **Warning , Warning **

The lunatics have escaped from the asylum , some are yelling "The Lamb is crap ", some are yelling " Gabriels vocals are poor  ! " , " some are even saying Genesis are crap "............after Wind and Withering  they were ! but don't worry these people will be caught and dealt with ...please remain calm!

This is a message from Rael

** Do not adjust your moniters **

Fantômas wrote: The story is pretty crappy, but it's the only decent Genesis album, IMO.

You just about got it right

Progger wrote: Fantômas wrote: The story is pretty crappy, but it's the only decent Genesis album, IMO.  You just about got it right

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!

The album is a masterpiece and Genesis' best after 'Foxtrot'.

gentletull wrote: gabriels voice on back in nyc are aweful. His voice sounds like fingernails on a black board during parts of the lamb ;)

The sound is the intended sound to cause the greatest effect on the listener.It fits perfect with the music and as for your descrption of his voice, well, there is only one soloution, a huge syringue for those orejas of yours.

BaldJean wrote: I'll repeat what I said in the "Lamb vs. Wall" thread: interesing that many people seem to think the 2nd part of TLLDOB is "weak". I much prefer it to the first part. it is definitely the more experimental part. but when looking at the story it is quite fitting the album develops like this, because the adventures of Rael just get weirder and weirder, so I don't really complain. by far the best album of Genesis.

 Excellent post. I think ths story is mainly a vehicle for doing a variety of emotions through the music.It seems to start as a social commentary but ends up in the realm of the totally absurd. So you can find what you want in it, one interpretation is as good as another. You may listen to a record hundreds of times but you would hardly read something hundreds of times. So I think what Gabriel did with his lyrics is make something that was meaningful yet not totally discernable without taking itself too seriously and having a comic edge .

 Therefore i find Gabriel to be amongst the best prog lyricists if not the best

Last year I witnessed the splendid Genesis tribute band The Musical Box in The Hague (Holland) with their 24-carat version of The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. My first conclusion after the concert was that Peter Gabriel was in those days already way ahead of the average (prog)rock musician by blending captivating, Freud-inspired lyrics with excellent, very varied music (from the mindblowing In The Cage and the agressive Back In NYC to the cheerful, funny and almost poppy Counting Out Time) and innovative visuals (Slippermen, The Lamia, the fake Gabriel, the slide-show, etc.). When Genesis performed The Lamb, many Genesis freaks were confused (as some mentioned in recent topics) but if you listen nowadays to The Lamb it's such a thrilling experience (although I have to admit that side 4 has some less captivating moments because the band was running out of time).

PROGROCK HISTORY..  .. !

Losendos wrote: BaldJean wrote: I'll repeat what I said in the "Lamb vs. Wall" thread: interesing that many people seem to think the 2nd part of TLLDOB is "weak". I much prefer it to the first part. it is definitely the more experimental part. but when looking at the story it is quite fitting the album develops like this, because the adventures of Rael just get weirder and weirder, so I don't really complain. by far the best album of Genesis.  Excellent post. I think ths story is mainly a vehicle for doing a variety of emotions through the music.It seems to start as a social commentary but ends up in the realm of the totally absurd. So you can find what you want in it, one interpretation is as good as another. You may listen to a record hundreds of times but you would hardly read something hundreds of times. So I think what Gabriel did with his lyrics is make something that was meaningful yet not totally discernable without taking itself too seriously and having a comic edge .  Therefore i find Gabriel to be amongst the best prog lyricists if not the best

I see it as going from the real to the surreal.  Whether of not the lamb lying down on Broadway indicates that it is a dream I am not sure. But it is in the tradition of the epic, in which a hero goes through a series of adventures or mishaps to arrive at a destination. This destination seems to be the discovery of his true self, which of course is a very sixities concept. This story would seem to involve a descent into hell and a purification at the end through Gabriel's water imagery.

I think if you knew the mythological context that he is drawing from, the piece would be a lot clearer than it seems now. The surreal part of the second phase would seem to be an indication of some kind of trip that reveals the basis of mytholgical realities through which Rael lives his life. He must purge those realities to come to a deeper understanding of who he is. Thus, Rael becomes Real. I think Gabriel chooses NY because it is the most decadent, least romantic place on earth. It is the modern city that holds all those mythologies.