If Tool is prog...
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Topic: If Tool is prog...
Posted By: Figglesnout
Subject: If Tool is prog...
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:20
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I've had this on my mind for awhile and I'm sure I will probably get some negative feedback but seriously, if a prog band that has a more "metal" sound than a prog sound (Tool) is considered prog, than why not a band like Led Zeppelin, who I'll admit started out less than prog with bluesy songs that still had a progressive sound (in my opinion), then came the later days with tons of prog influences and sounds moving across the soundscape that was Zeppelin...I seriously think we should give this more thought. Now I'm not saying "put them in the archives now!" i'm just saying "why is this the case...what is more prog about tool?" What's your take? ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Replies:
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:22
No way. Tool are great and prog. Led Zep are great but not prog ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:28
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Why start this argument up all over again??????????????????????? I am so sick of you Tool haters,and your "Tool is not prog BS"!!!!!!!!! -------------  |
king volta wrote:Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:28
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I will agree that they probably are prog (Tool), my question is: if they are considered prog of sorts, why not a clearly much better/proggier band like zeppelin? ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: VanBuren
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:30
| tool is prog, zeppelin isn't. just because you like prog and like zeppelin, it doesn't make them prog |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:32
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They might not be as good as LZ, but they certainly are much more prog. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:33
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Ok...I am not going to get into a big thing with you,but this has been done many times before. Tool is clearly a progressive metal band,if you can't see that something is worng with you. Led Zeppelin(who I worship),were a blues based,rock band who had a FEW proggy moments.Too call LZ a prog band is an insult in my book,because they influenced metal and hard rock way more than they influenced progressive rock. ------------- |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:36
That's not an answer to my now 100% clearly stated question. Try again. ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:38
Once again, I NEVER SAID TOOL WAS NOT PROG! QUIT ACCUSING ME OF THAT PLEASE! I just think Zeppelin has more progressive qualities and should be included as proto prog. I mean if Deep Purple is in, surely Zeppelin should be also. I'm sure Zeppelin managed to influence Tool... ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:39
Don't try to bait me again...you got me? ------------- |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:42
Tool are about as Prog Metal as you can get. And I neither love or hate them, so don't say I'm biased.
I agree, but can't basically the same thing be said about Deep Purple? In my opinion, the whole Proto-Prog thing is stupid, but I would say the Moody Blues are the first Progressive Rock band, but not DP or anything (although I love them). ------------- 
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Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:43
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i was never "baiting" you...but if you're going to post in a thread at least answer the question. ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: alterpower
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:48
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i'm not good at recognizing time signatures, but i know Tool uses some
crazy ones if my friend's tell the truth, and i havent heard anything by Zeppelin that has such craziness. I would consider them a rock, or metal, or soemthing like that, not prog. ------------- Oh I don't know [incert activity] but I did listen to a prog album last night. |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:50
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zeppelin uses 3/8, 5/8, and 7/8 verses 4/4/ 3/4/ 5/4 just as much as tool does. and besidestime signatures that change do not a make a band "progressive" (100th post...) ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 22:56
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I told you why I think Zeppelin shouldn't be here.I was never ever in agreement with the introduction of the prog related/influenced proto,prog categories because they allow the inclusion of bands that are not prog in my book,like Deep Purple and Queen,and Zeppelin. As far as trying to convince you if Tool is prog or not I will not do that,I have done that over and over in other threads and am not in the mood to get all worked up trying to convince someone of a bands progressiveness.If you don't like them or don't think they are progressive fine with me,that's your loss.Personally,I think TMV is nothing but a bunch of bad noise but you don't see me starting threads about it.
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Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 23:01
dude i never bashed tool. i do think they belong in teh archives i never said i didn't. i even told you to quit accusing me of such things. you evidently refuse to read...this thread is not called "Let's bash tool" adn if you looked hard enough, you'd notice that no one is doing so. But you look at one little sentence and get all off instead of answering the question teh thread was created for. Seriously...go drink some coffee, settle the hell down, then come back and read the entire thread, and make sure you see this: I AM OFFICIALLY STATING NOW THAT I BELIEVE THAT TOOL BELONGS IN THESE ARCHIVES JUST AS MUCH AS A BAND LIKE THE MARS VOLTA AND DREDG AND DREAM THEATER. IF YOU GET THIS FAR AND HAVE A SEIZURE LIKE THE PROGTOLOGIST THEN PLEASE JUST LEAVE INSTEAD OF ACCUSING ME OF THINGS I NEVER SAID. and by the way protologist, you say you don't start threads bashing the mars volta, but actually (it's not a thread) but you DID bash them.  now that i've tried for the third time to clear that up...continue with the posts, i'm enjoying the results. ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 23:08
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if a prog band that has very little prog sound or influence (Tool, this is my opinion, Tool is metal, not prog) is considered prog That is not really bashing but that got my blood up because I don't agree with that. Tool has only ever acknowledged one band as an influence on their music....King Crimson. And how can you think a band like TMV is prog but Tool isn't? ------------- |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 23:13
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i do think tool is prog, i edited my post because i was so intent on getting a point across i didn't stop to think that someone might you might get curdled blood. But i will say that you did bash TMV, and my thoughts about tool were opinion not open bias like yours. tool belongs in the archives i'll admit any day but i'll say again: if a "metal" band like tool is considered prog of sorts with less progressive sound than a band like led zeppelin. why isn't zpeelin allowed to be in the archives? sorry if i gave you a hernia but seriously...and by the way: i'm sure almost everyone except the tool fanboys like you will admit that TMV is much more progressive than Tool could ever hope to be. ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 23:21
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You seem really intent on arguing.You start off apologetic and end it by basically insulting me and trying to draw me into another argument.(hint...that's called "baiting") I think TMV belong here,and if you like them and other people like them,great.They are just not my cup of tea.If I want to say I think their music is noise,I'm going to say it. ------------- |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 23:22
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another question that bugs me: why do tool fans think that everyone that doesn't like them is illiterate and stupid and has no life? Why do Tool obsessives think that only the true fans understand Tool. That's completely bollocks. Everyone has an opinion, and no one is stupider for believeing one thing over another. while this probably belongs in another thread, i'd like an answer from the progtoligist if you do not mind. (btw i don't dislike you at all or anything even if you hate me, but you overreacted on a very undignified level). ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 23:26
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opinions are fine, progtologist, and i was not baiting you again, i was stating an opinion of my own...it was not "baiting" until you made it "baiting"...and you seem intent on arguing also...or else you would've just given up long ago. I understand if you don't like TMV that's fine (and by the way before you assume this because it seems you already have, i like MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more than TMV.) Why can't you understand that i don't like tool? this is not a tool bashing thread and was never meant to be. no bashing has occured except of the mars volta by you, which belongs in another thread. please, reply to my question and let this thread grow to a state where the question itself is answered rather than a question of entirely different origin. thanks and sincerly, king volta (ben) ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: Nipsey88
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 23:28
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Tool is 100% prog, and LZ should definitely be considered at least prog related. For example: Kashmir Achilles Last Stand Stairway To Somewhere...(joke) In The Light Tea For One No Quarter In My Time Of Dying Caroselambra etc... 'nuff said ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nipsey88/?chartstyle=myspace02" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 23:30
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I am done with you KV.You have edited your very first post to make it look like you said absolutely nothing that would upset someone that liked Tool.Your last few posts are clearly a baiting attempt.I will not respond to any more of your posts in this thread.Don't aim any more of your responses at me.We will agree to disagree.Leave it at that. ------------- |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 23:34
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And that's fine, although i never disliked you...it's funny how the person who greeted me first with biased opinions in my very first thread turns out to be the one who hates me first...but whatever works. By all means, please quit ruinig this thread...by the way i edited this post because of a friend who pointed out to me that i had said something i claimed i hadn't...i changed it because i realzied what i said was obiviously getting in the way of the point of the thread...plus if you read the whole first post origionally and edited (they are both in the tread) you will see that i did say that tool belongs in the archives even if i don't personally think they are a progressive band. please don't hate me if you feel like you should for i don not hate you based on your opinion. but if you do that's another opinion of yours, and let the thread commence. ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 23:55
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okay from me nothign else in this thread will be said or directed to the progtologist, who is a very educated person adn is entitled to his own opinion. i'd like the same to go from everyone else. i'm beginning to think that i should've named the thread and based on: "If Deep Purple is prog...". Not only would it have made much more sense in comparison but it also would've prevented this wondeful sidetrack from occuring. i alopigize to everyone in this thread and to the progtoligist. ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: December 14 2005 at 00:00
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[head asplode] *poof*
------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 14 2005 at 00:02
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^haha ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: December 14 2005 at 01:16
| If Zeppelin's material as a whole were more like "Achilles Last Stand," I would consider them to be progressive, and I would also consider them one of my favorite bands. I love that song so much. As whole, no, they are not progressive, although they were quite innovative and influential. Perhaps we could deem them "proto-prog." |
Posted By: sularetal
Date Posted: December 14 2005 at 07:46
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No dam*it TOOL isn't progressive so please Prtologist STFU!!!! Just kiddin' I love Tool. I always hated those who claimed tool isn't prog just because they didnt like them but here I dont think thats the case. KV only tries to say that in his opinion Led Zep should be here because they had as many/more prog moments as/than tool....(dont agree with that) IMO yes Zeppelin are prog related but also the fathers of Hard Rock and what was latter called Metal. In my mind Led Zep isn't another proto-prog band (even if it also was) but THE BIGGEST ROCK BAND EVER. However I dont have a problem of having them here so in conclusion I dont see the point of this thread. ------------- 
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Posted By: Publius
Date Posted: December 16 2005 at 06:32
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Tool are prog, look at it the simple way, if Tool definitely weren't prog, why would people start saying they were prog in the first place!? ------------- I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 16 2005 at 08:29
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If tool are prog, they would have to be the worst prog band I've ever heard |
Posted By: ridejewel
Date Posted: December 18 2005 at 23:07
| The last few times I saw Tool live, they were opened by King Crimson and Mars Volta....Would prog bands open for non-prog bands? I mean, wouldnt you think that certain genres would stick together? Though, of course, I have seen some seriously clashing bands play together, but, come on, it's Tool, not The Rolling Stones. Why are we talking about Tool? Isnt Rush the only true prog band? |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: December 18 2005 at 23:52
^um...no...rush is defiantely NOT the only prog band...once this topic dies...if it ever does...i'm going to re-pose this question under a better premis. Just wait. Let it die.  ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: lunaticviolist
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 00:32
Actually, Gentle Giant opened for Black Sabbath in '72, I think. I have a bootleg of this show, and it's classic. A rude Sabbath fan throws a cherry bomb on stage during GG's performance, and GG blow up (no pun intended  ) at the audience. Then they start speaking condescendingly like
"Percussion -- that's drums for those of you who don't know."
It's great, anyway I digress...Tool are prog, Zeppelin are not, but I think we all need to chill out. This is just a discussion! ------------- My recent purchases: 
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Posted By: lunaticviolist
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 00:34
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Uh oh...I might have opened Pandora's box...Next will get someone asking "Are Black Sabbath prog?" ------------- My recent purchases:
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Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 00:39
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Well IMO (to the tool to mars volta comparison) TMV is more "progressive"
IMO because they are trying something completely new. Though Tool does have their own sound they are not pushing the boundaries of music as much as TMV. Tool is a great prog metal band though and their albums are very well written from what I've heard. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 02:46
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If Tool is prog, then prog must be Tool.
But then prog is also Radiohead.
How can prog be Tool and Radiohead at the same time?
Boy, am I sleepy, so Sleepy must be me. ...
OK, the silliness aside, the term 'prog' IMO doesn't have anything to do with progressiveness (anymore), so it doesn't have anything to do with quality, either
Regards,
Sleepy
------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 02:47
My friend lent me his 5 tool albums and I though 3/4 of the songs just sounded like modern rubbish  . The vocals reminded me of bands like Nickleback and Offspring, even though some of the music was obviously better. But as an overall band, I was bored apart from the drumming and the occasional odd time signatures. From Radiohead, I liked the bends a fair bit, but the other albums were very patchy to me.
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Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 02:57
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See, that's the problem - IMO it's Maynard J. Keenan (Tool's singer) who must have influenced these guys, not the other way around. Now because the vocal style (in a very general sense) has been popularised in such a bad musical context, you can't really enjoy it in the context of Tool. I listened to Tool before I heard Offspring and Nickelback, so I'm free of such unpleasant associations ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 04:17
Nah I just hate those vocals all together :). Tool are very monotone and they lack many key ingrediants of a great prog band. When it comes to heavy rock/metal. I'm more than happy with old sabbath, deep purple, rush and zeppelin. These 4 bands are closer to prog than tool 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 04:49
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Tool are clearly different from Led Zeppelin. If you don't see that, that's your problem. Go read one of the million thread where people give reasons ... don't alienate them here by demanding that they spell it out for you once more. Your problem, not ours. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 04:51
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You know that there's an entire prog genre that is much more monotone than Tool (Post Rock)? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 05:02
yeah I don't listen to any monotone bands;). I'm a young guy and there is more prog to explore from the 70s. I don't rate tool much. I have yet to find any modern band I rate. There are many better bands. I've been getting into Devo lately. Their album Freedom of choice excellent and has more good songs than tool ever did 
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