Diamond Head
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15421
Printed Date: January 10 2025 at 08:30
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Diamond Head
Posted By: Certif1ed
Subject: Diamond Head
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 08:32
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I just acquired a copy of "Canterbury" this weekend - until now, the only DH I really knew was "Living On Borrowed Time", the stuff I've seen them do live in a drunken haze, and the stuff Metallica covered, and I've always considered DH to be at least a proto prog metal band. "Canterbury" contains moments of what to my ears at least is bona fide Prog Metal - years, if not decades ahead of its time, albeit with lousy production and no sweep-picking or other vituosic smoke and mirrors. Please comment on tracks like "Kingmaker", "To The Devil", "Night of the Swords" and "Ishmael".
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Replies:
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 10:30
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I have their 2cd anthology 'Am I Evil', which I believe has a lot from 'Canterbury' so I'll give that a listen and get back to you. I do hear elements of prog in their other songs like 'Am I Evil?', 'The Prince' and 'Lightning To The Nations', but I'd say most NWOBHM bands had some prog in the mix somewhere; even Angel Witch and Samson on some tracks. Not convinced whether any NWOBHM bands should be here but I may change my mind on Diamond Head. |
Posted By: Space Dimentia
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 10:58
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Sorry but I love Diomand head but Iron Maiden are the true founders of prog-metal. ------------- Prog is music for the mind Hear your Orphaned child! Check out my bands myspace site: www.myspace.com/equinox17 |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 15:18
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That's funny Which Iron Maiden track of 1983 or before is more proggy than Knight of the Swords or Ishmael? DH influenced Maiden, and don't forget it!
Absolutely - Heavy Metal as a genre has always been closely related to Prog Rock in that it has had all kinds of allusions and pretensions, not to mention hour-long solos, squeaky voices and themes of the fantastical... And I'd agree with elements in Samson - and even more with Angelwitch, whose first album is complete brilliance, but I think DH went the extra mile - their style of metal is very different to other NWOBHM bands, if you overlook the fact that they influenced just about everyone from Def Leppard to Queensryche (who are here...). Queensryche's first album (1984) is generally agreed upon to have prog elements, but is closer to pure heavy metal. Most other metal bands around 1983 just stopped being even vaguely proggy, and went for the mainstream, but Canterbury is interesting partilcularly because it shows the two directions; 1) the direction the record label wanted them to go in (more mainstream oriented, like "Makin' Music" and "Out of Phase", which is a wierd enough track in many ways!), and the direction the band wanted to go in (more progressive - ie the 4 tracks I singled out). At the time of "Living on Borrowed Time", which shows strong prog metal leanings - and just about everyone I knew referred to Diamond Head as more of a prog band back then - especially after their stunning Reading Rock Festival set, Iron Maiden had just released "The Number of the Beast" - a fantastic album, but hardly Prog!!! IM were confirmed as one of the forefront of NWOBHM. "Canterbury" was released in the same year as "Piece of Mind", which is hardly prog when you consider the magnificence of the music DH were capable of producing. I just think that DH are overlooked just about everywhere - too prog for metal, too metal for prog - and the poll is currently reflecting a large "Don't know, can't be bothered to check them out" contingent. That's my take on it, since no-one has explicitly mentioned the tracks I referred to... |
Space Dimentia wrote:Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 15:25
Proto Prog Metal? Maybe. Prog Metal? No. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 15:25
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^ BTW: Am I Evil when I say that? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 15:28
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All but one of those songs were on that anthology, and there were a few others from 'Canterbury' on it, and I have to say that I found them pretty dull affairs. The spark that made them so great for me has almost entirely gone with this later material... You are right, the production is weak and timid, and the songs are nothing special to these ears. I think their classics like 'Am I Evil' are proggier than the 'Canterbury' tracks, imo. However, in referring to your thread question, they definitely played a part in the founding of 'prog metal' and as such belong here, yet their category confuses me at the mo... |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 15:37
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I don't know - do you actually know the tracks? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 15:41
I listened to Diamond Head ages ago ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 15:51
Pathetic. |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 16:00
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I'm willing to give the tracks you mention another listen Certif1ed- my anthology had 'Ishmael' (which was about the best song imo), 'To The Devil His Due' and 'Night Of The Swords'. I didn't like the more commercial songs like 'Makin Magic' and 'Out Of Phase' much really though, and on first listen the sound isn't very full. Glad to see you love the Angel Witch album though- I've read some pretty disparaging reviews of them, but to me their debut was one of the better ones of the NWOBHM boom. The track 'Baphomet' from 'Metal For Muthas' sounds just like classic Rush to me with a Sabbath esque edge. I recently got a box set of the NWOBHM that Sanctuary put out- called 'Lightning To The Nations', which was full of terrific songs- I'm currently listening to Vardis' 'If I Were King' and that has an element of prog about it too, but I had one of their albums- 'The World's Insane'- and that was quite drab in comparison to 'If I Were King'. Even a classic that I was aware of already like 'Name Rank and Serial Number' by Fist has some prog influences, showing that prog infiltrated the genre a great deal... |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 16:01
Diamond Head flirted with success - they never quite made it - Metallica liked them though  ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 08:49
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Quite - and Metallica definitely sowed a large percentage of the seeds for the style that is now established as Prog Metal - their riffs and particularly riffing styles are omnipresent in that genre. The first time I heard Dream Theater, I couldn't get over how many Metallica riffs I recognised, and the underlying style, of "sophisticated" thrash mixed with slower interludes has not changed in 20-odd years. Metallica's 1st 5 albums are utterly Progressive in the literal sense, as well as having many prog pretensions - despite the fact that the 5th progressed in the wrong direction, ie, mainstream/Nu Metal. I digress... Back to Diamond Head, I've uploaded the 4 tracks (mp3'd from my precious vinyl) to http://http://www.megaupload.com/?d=16CM89EZ - Megaupload (<-click the link) - for evaluation only, of course. Note particularly the use of "chanting", timpani and keyboards at the beginning of "Kingmaker", in an almost successful attempt to create the grandiose "symphonic" type sound - and note also the inventive rhythms and distorted harmonies in the riffs and Middle Eastern flavours, with the bass decidedly not following the guitar slavishly. Note also the constant changes and avoidance of heavy metal guitar solos in favour of building the texture - if only they'd had an orchestra! "To The Devil" has a different flavour altogether, and goes through unexpected changes - yet is surprisingly accessible. Sean Harris free approach to melody soars above the shifting riffs, which themselves are overlaid with subtle, cross-rhythmic keyboard and guitar ambience - I find the chorus very haunting, but it's the musical development from 3:32 I like most, especially the sung "Ahhhs" - very demonic, in a chilling, understated way. "Knight of the Swords" starts a bit like an Iron Maiden song - the same kind of chugging riff - but Harris again lets his voice fly free, and we reach the end of the chorus only after another 3 (count 'em) infectious riffs. After the standard A-B-A-B (although you could legitimately pick me up on the technicality that it's really A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D, we reach the expected bridge - but I'd bet you wouldn't predict the drop to gentle guitar and voice that follows! This feels truly free-form to me, even though it's fairly obvious that it's a simple development of a two-tone shift. The guitar solo is a pleasant surprise - nothing stunning by today's standards, but I'm very keen on Brian Tatler's feel for strangely angular melodies - and those riffs!!! Dr Who on acid? The interesting bits of "Ishmael" are, well, just about all of it really. From the Middle Eastern market style opening, to the backbeat entry, Harris' free-style melody, the wonderful harmonies in the chorus, the pounding toms and shifting rhythms - this has a flavour almost divorced from the metal roots - a whole new world of possibility in rock. My biggest complaint is that the musical development after the second chorus is too short - I'd have loved to hear DH make something really sinister out of that.
Yes, I like it - but I like Angelwitch, Raven and Iron Maiden too - and I wouldn't support the inclusion of any of those bands, even though I do recognise the progressive edges of all 3. ...but don't let me influence you in any way
Oh, and the Iron Maiden option was a joke... Duh!!! |
Posted By: Shark Sandwich
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 11:00
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'Lightning to the Nations' is a great album. I especially liked 'The Prince', 'Sucking My Love' and of course 'Am I Evil'. I haven't heard anything else by them but will be on the lookout for the other albums if I see them.... |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 11:19
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I think they would make a good "proto" addition,if that category can include proto-prog metal bands. -------------  |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 16:35
Try the mp3's I linked above |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 16:51
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A Joke? Damn... I fell for that one ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5"> 
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 17:10
Are you evil? Yes you f**king are! ------------- Pure Brilliance: 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 17:15
Oh sorry, I forgot that you make the rules. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 03:02
*Sigh* No - it's pathetic to pass such an affirmative judgement on music you haven't actually listened to by a band you haven't heard for several years. Not evil. Pathetic. But that doesn't fit the tune....
I'm taking all the "Iron Maiden" votes as "Don't Knows", and the "No" vote as a "Don't Know", since there are no arguments against yet. Given that ignoring the "Don't Knows" and "Can't be bothereds" will leave only positive votes, I'll add them next Tuesday, because actually, I DO make the rules.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 03:13
There you go again, manipulating and stretching my statement so that it fits into your concept. Well, why do you start these ridiculous discussions anyway? And why does your poll only allow for extreme opinions - where is the option "They're somewhat progressive, but not enough to be added"?
I trust you will add them as Prog Related or Proto Prog ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 03:39
What's so ridiculous about this discussion? It's about a band that may or may not be prog related - is that so strange on a Prog Rock forum?
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Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 03:41
Ahem Phantom of the opera and genghis khan has certainly progressive elements. And maiden could have released these tracks earlier in the 70's had it not been for the uprise of punk  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Fjuffe/?chartstyle=sideRed - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/sideRed/recenttracks/Fjuffe.gif - |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 04:39
There is nothing strange about the idea to discuss Diamond Head. It IS strange to combine the only option which agrees that they're somewhat progressive with the agreement that they should be added to the archives. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 04:48
I will say ... as a relatively disinterested party ------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.” "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 05:00
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It's obivious to me that the poll was just intended as an announcement of their addition ... frankly, I think that polls are generally not suited to decide whether bands are added or not, because you can never be sure if those who vote really know the music. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 08:17
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Sheesh! It's not a contract. It's a fun poll, that is clearly intended to provoke some discussion about the band and the MUSIC, not fanny around moaning about the way the poll is constructed. And I'm not really going to add any band without going through the proper channels, as ANY collaborator should know. That was a ruse to get a reaction from the negative voters, who seem to have nothing to say to back their choices up, despite the fact it says "No, Because..." Any comments ABOUT THE MUSIC? Or is that too difficult? |