Prog & classical - who’s into both?
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15384
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Topic: Prog & classical - who’s into both?
Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Subject: Prog & classical - who’s into both?
Date Posted: December 04 2005 at 11:46
Just interested to find out how many prog fans are also into classical, and by how much. I reckon prog & classical go together quite well, and I know there are a lot of classical fans here already. I'm somewhere between 5 & 6 in this poll! 
What's your favourite classical piece, or do you think classical "sucks"? (If so, don't think of visiting me!) ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Replies:
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: December 04 2005 at 11:54
I'm into both... but Ravel's 'Bolero' sucks!  ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 04 2005 at 17:10
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How come I can't find this page when I do a search under my own name or list all posts made in the last few hours? I thought it had been deleted; it's taken me half an hour to find it again. It never seems to show up on the main page either.
------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: December 04 2005 at 17:48
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I love both.I was raised around classical music.It was all my Mom listened to and she also played and taught classical piano. -------------  |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: December 04 2005 at 18:04
Classical music is very good 
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Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: December 04 2005 at 18:05
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Holst's Planet Suite is one of my favorite classical composition. That
being said, I truly enjoy pretty much all classical, although i am not
too much of a fan of the Baroque era. I was heavily into
classical music before I was into or knew anything about prog.
------------- "Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression." -Merleau-Ponty |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: December 04 2005 at 18:39
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I love Classical almost as much as I love Prog! Although not a fan of modern avant-garde type composers nor a lover of opera I own over 300 classical CDs. Personal favourites contain no surprises, but I love: Prokoviev,Mahler,Schostakovich,Mozart,Bruckner,Wagner and Beethoven. My favourite pieces are Rodrogo's Concierto De Aranjuez and Shostakovich's Piano Concerto No2,especially the beautiful andante and Wagner's Siegfried.
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: December 04 2005 at 19:43
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I recommend the "Brazilian Bachians" (Bachianas Brasileiras) by Villa-Lobos as recorded by soprano Bidu Sayăo in 1938 (it's not an opera). This record was the first to receive a pure gold register and then interred in NYC undergrounds at the 1939 World Fair to be a testimony for future generations. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Philrod
Date Posted: December 04 2005 at 20:51
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I love both! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Philrod/?chartstyle=Geldropdown-small"> 
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Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 02:42
I love both.
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Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 09:43
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So either the vast majority of Prog lovers are also huge classical freaks, or the ones that aren't into classical aren't bothering to vote!
Interesting... ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 09:58
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Pretty much anything....but my favourite classical composers are in the
mainstream, that's JS Bach and Mozart, also Debussy and Chopin. Oh, and
Schubert could crank out a good tune. Not forgetting Stravinsky,
Bartok, Rachmaninov and Beethoven, though sometimes Beethoven gets a
bit heavy. Mahler though was not really my thing, nor the C20
& C21 "classical" composers, a little too avant-garde for me. Like you Tony I'm really not big on opera. I realise there is a technical skill in singing in such an affected way but it usually brings tears to my eyes when the fat lady sings, that coupled with the ham acting for me is almost as bad as having to endure country and western. If I had to pick Desert Island discs, among the prog and some jazz would be Bach's Brandeburg Concerto's, Mozarts' final piano concerto K595 (played by Brendel), and probably a set of Debussy's Preludes.  |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 13:38
| I can only take classical in small doses. I love ELP adaptations, though. |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: December 05 2005 at 19:49
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Prokofiev - Dance of the Knights, from Romeo and Juliet (also a very good version with EL&P). ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 03:17
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No surprises here -
Mahler, Mozart, Wagner, Elgar, Dvorak... (cliched, I know, but as a poet once said, "I know what I like") Current favorites, Mahler's 8th Symphony, Stravinsky's The Rite Of Spring (and yes, I did get into Stravinsky via Yes ), Dvorak's cello concerto, Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake and the majesty that is Wagner's Ring Cycle (conducted by Solti, of course!) ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 07:28
Me likey it all.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 16:46
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I love all avant-garde, barogue, modern and classical. Prog got me into it. Holst's planets is the best though! -------------  
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 17:29
I do like some classical (Stravinsky and The Planets) but I need vocals
in my music (and please don't point me in the direction of opera  ).
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Posted By: MrHiccup
Date Posted: December 06 2005 at 17:34
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I like both. ------------- Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends... |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 02:11
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I believe you can't really understand early Prog' especially Symphonic if you don't like Classical music. Love both. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 02:38
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I'm just obsessed with music - I don't limit myself. It's not only Classical I like, but everything from pre-Mediaeval, through Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, and all the 20th Century idioms. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 03:25
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I am into both genres.
Ravel and Debussy are the progheads of classical! BTW, i'm waiting a record from Schmidt/La tragédie de Salomé, french composer close to Ravel who inspired Tchaicovsky. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 08:21
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What do you think of Messiaen - especially the Turangaglia Symphonie? |
oliverstoned wrote:Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 09:02
| Olivier Messian is excellent! but i don't know as well as you. Another good one to explore! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 09:33
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Add to that George Gershwin, who was a great admirer of Ravel. Great Jazz-Classical fusion, in particular Rhapsody in Blue, An American in Paris and the Cuban Overture. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 09:54
| That's true. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 11:37
Hey Cert, don't mix terms:
So the question is well done Iván -------------
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 12:37
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Classical music is awesome, excellent in all ways, but i cant say that i love that, im not a "fan" of classical... Tchaikovsky for me !!!
------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 07 2005 at 16:56
Iván The Classical era is from 1750-1820(ish - some would say 1825, and who am I to argue?). http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=The+classical+era&meta - http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=The+classical+era &meta = The term "Classical" is very commonly but incorrectly applied to virtually all orchestral and much acoustically instrumented music. My favourite book on the Classical era is the very famous one by Charles Rosen, if you'd like some enlightenment as to the exact style of music rather than rough timelines http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?endeca=1&isbn=0393317129 - http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp? endeca=1&isbn=0393317129 (B&N sell it for half the price that Amazon do - and it's a brilliant book!).
The term isn't "Classic" - that means an enduring piece. HTH
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Posted By: Deliriumist
Date Posted: December 08 2005 at 11:28
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Aside from prog I like some of the impressionist artists such as Ravel and Debussy. I also like romantic composers such as Schubert, Chopin, all the Russian romantics and so on. Bach IMO is the biggest genius in music history. Don't like the classical era very much...maybe Beethoven (but he was almost romantic). From my tiny motherland I love the late 19th and the early 20th century choir music - it's something magical (M. Saar, C. Kreek, M. Härma etc.) Sometimes I wish I didn't like prog more than this so called "classical" music but I can't help it - It's SO GOOD. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 08 2005 at 17:09
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Cert wrote:
Not so sure, read the Classical Music Pages (I place the link at the bottom of the quote:
My music teacher always made clear difference between Classical Music as all the eras and Clssic music from 1750 to 1820, 25 or 30 (Not precise ending date, I'll give you that one). Many people (even experts) don't discriminate between Classical Music (As a broad term) and Classical era, so in the worst scenario the word Classical can be used to describe, both the period from Middle Ages to XXIst Century and the years between 1750 and 1820 - 1830. I believe this approach is wrong. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 08 2005 at 17:26
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Ivan I have had many music teachers, professors, etc. As you probably know, my handle comes from the fact that I have qualifications up to my eyeballs - ie Certified, with the pun on being mad about music. I have studied music in considerable depth for my whole life - in academic institutions and in real life. I don't know about "Classical Music Pages", but I do know about the New Grove Encyclopedia (the reference for all serious musicians) - and also that Charles Rosen is one of THE most respected authorities on Classical music (1750-1825ish) in the world. The term "Classical" is bandied about incorrectly by academics and non academics alike, but the term "Classic" is almost never used by academics to describe the period in music - at least, not in the limited spheres I have travelled. All experts I've ever met (and I have met a few...) agree with what I'm saying here. And to round it off, when you're talking about architecture, painting, literature or sculpture, you also refer to it in terms of periods with the same names (but differing dates), and Classical is always Classical, not Classic. I guess it doesn't matter - but you picked me up on the term, and I believe that your music teacher was wrong. I'm saying that from the very rare position of "showing my stripes": I too am a music teacher.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 08 2005 at 17:55
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Cert: The last thing I would want to do with you is to argue about this word, but it's obvious that the word Classical is also used to describe all the lets say Orchestral music since Medieval age up to today. BTW, my music teacher also taught in the Conservatory and the National Symphonic Orchestra even when he was born in London. You can check, there's even a Classical Web Ring http://h.webring.com/hub?ring=classicalring - http://h.webring.com/hub?ring=classicalring that includes artists from all eras. You can also visist the Classical Net http://www.classical.net/music/rep/top.html - http://www.classical.net/music/rep/top.html , which includes:
They rather use the term Clasisicism rather than Classic or Classical, even when in the articles inside the site they use the term Classical Music to describe all eras and Classical Period to describe only what I refer as Classic era. I'm not a teacher of music, nor I have your credentials in music (Which I respect very much), but I guide myself from what I learned in 5 years of piano and Music elective subjects in the University. And from what I read, the term is often used to describe both meanings. The Classical Music Pages which I quote are part of The Classical Music Web Ring which is supported by such entities as The Vienna Symphony Orchestra, and includes such composers as Bach (Baroque) Beethoven (Classic or Classical), Brahms (Romantic), Elgar (Modern). etc. I believe all this guys have at least the same credentials as you, and they don't make a problem with including Baroque, Modern, Romantic, Medieval, etc into a whole genre denominated Classical Music. The advantage in Spanish is that we used the Word Clasica to describe Classicism and the expression Musica Selecta to refer to all eras, still many opeople often misuse terms. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 03:53
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That doesn't make it any less incorrect, Ivan. The period is the Classical period, and Classicism refers to the movement - I don't see anything referring to Classic in your links... Most people refer to orchestral or non-folk acoustic music as classical, and I'm not saying they're wrong to, because it's common use. I'm just saying that this common use is incorrect, which is true. I wouldn't trust a web ring - but I would trust what the Royal Academy of Music, the Guildhall and Oxford University teach, The New Grove, and Charles Rosen. Maybe things are different in Peru to the U.K...
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 10:59
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Cert: I agree with you, if only because this approach is the way I have come to understand the musical time periods. "Classic" is the time period, but no one I've ever known (in my limited experience) refers to that.
I guess anyone could argue about this, but what's the point? I'd rather try and put Mozart to shame with my virtuosity. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:22
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I like 'em both. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 21:47
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Some classical music is interesting, but I never listen to it... ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 22:15
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OK Cert, I won't argue with someone who is my friend and knows more than me about a determined subject, but you say:
Not to argue with you, but The Classical Music Pages, member of the Classical Web Ring and supported by the Vienna Symphony Orchestra says: http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/g_epoch_classic.html - Classic (1750-1825)
Even when I know you would never believe I change a quote, I give you the link http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/classmus.html - http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/classmus.html There's some more:
It's clear according to the last text quoted that Classic is the period between the middle 1700's and the early 1800's and the word CLASSICAL referrs to the whole genre that goes for 10 Centuries. I diidn't invented the quote, you know me and I usually argue if I have support for my claims,I believe it's correct , but if it's wrong, well, it's a mistake even made by the experts, which include my music teacher (With strong credentials) and the page with stronger credentials. I still believe (and I'm supported with wrutten material you can check) that the term CLASSICAL is widely used in reference to all select music from the Middle Ages to the date and CLASSIC is refered to the music betweem 1750 and the early 1800's. But again this is a Bizantine discussion and I won't ruin a virtual friendship for the use done of a term in different countries. You say tomato I say tomate, you say Classical era I say Classic era Iván BTW: Cert, just checled my old texts in Spanish (if it helps you), they use the same term with a different expression: EPOCA CLASICA: Classic Epoch, they even mention 1750 to 1830. MÚSICA CLASICA: ALL the orchestral music from the midddle Ages to the 70's (When I studied music) . The same word is used with the two meanings.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 10 2005 at 21:18
Haha!! Then that make me even more confused. I thought I was agreeing with Cert!!! Oh well, I need to take a nap! And I'm glad we agree on MY virtuosity, at least. ... ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 10 2005 at 22:47
Well hope you won't believe me, I'm a lawyer Iván -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 10 2005 at 23:24
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: A'swepe
Date Posted: December 11 2005 at 10:08
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As I'm sure most will agree, I find Classical Music (as well as Prog) to be vey much a mixed bag. It is difficult to define why a certain piece of music appeals to me, but, yes, I do like & listen to both genres. ------------- David - Never doubt in the dark that which you believe to be true in the light. http://www.myspace.com/aardvarktxusa - Instrumental rock http://www.soundclick.com/aardvarktxusa |
Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 17 2005 at 16:34
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Very interesting results, I must say. It's confirmed what I suspected; that Prog lovers are generally Classical lovers too. (I know the term "Classical" is strictly confined to a certain rather vague period, but everybody knows what is meant by the term.)
The composer Alfred Schnittke once said "I love ALL music!" so maybe he was a prog-head too! I'm currently working on a book on the development of classical music; if anybody wants to read what I've written so far, feel free. So far I've covered the development of the symphony up to the end of the C19th, and about to tackle the C20th. The PDF file is at http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/whatismusic.pdf ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 17 2005 at 18:55
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Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 03:15
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I've only started seriously checking out classical recently, and I can safely say I'm into it, both classical 'proper' and contemporary. ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 05:37
Just bought this one and it's an absolute must-have (both interpretation and sound):
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 05:40
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If you want any recommendations...
hint: Dvorak's Cello Concerto and Stravinsky's Rite of Spring |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 05:58
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...just discovered "Schmidt/La tragédie de Salomé", a french modern composer who inspired Stravinsky.
His music is closed to Stravinsky with a slight Ravel influence. 
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Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 06:05
Thanks, I will check them out Just trying to get my head around Mahler's 5th... EDIT: I'll take a note of Debussy and Schmidt, too, Oliver, thanks ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: Dragon Phoenix
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 07:31
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Love both. Favourite composers: JS Bach, Mahler, Shostakovich, Brahms, Dvorak, Debussy, but also less well-known composers like Suk, Takemitsu and Salinen. Favourite compositions: too many to list. ------------- Blog this: http://artrock2006.blogspot.com |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 08:47
That's a pleasure. Among the both , Debussy in prioritary way. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: December 19 2005 at 10:03
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I'm 50% prog and 50% classical...
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 20 2005 at 01:20
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-------------
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: December 25 2005 at 07:10
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Classical is the only other mian type of music I tend to listen to, besides Prog... I particularly like Sibelius, Dvorak, Smetana, Tchaikovsky, Brahms & Beethoven... (& Mendelsohnn, when he's not too flowery... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: December 25 2005 at 11:24
things like this warm me up inside  -------------
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: December 30 2005 at 20:58
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Only prog covers of classics (ELP etc) ------------- 
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Posted By: Bartvarium
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 08:02
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I like prog and something of classical!We cam say prog is like classical!! ------------- Raise your sword mighty warrior |
Posted By: Rising Force
Date Posted: January 12 2006 at 02:18
| I'm trying to get into classical. I've only heard a little bit of Chopin, Mozart, Prokofiev, Beethoven, Holst, and Bach. But it doesn't hold my interest enough as metal (including prog metal, of course). But I do like it.... |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: January 12 2006 at 03:12
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Try some Rakhmaninov, Debussy or Dvorak. If virtuosity's your thing, try tracking down a recording of Pganini's caprices - bearing in mind that critics at the time said that they were impossible to play by anyone except Paganini, and most modern violinists struggle like hell with them! |
Posted By: Rising Force
Date Posted: January 12 2006 at 04:38
Good idea! I heard a recording of which was supposedly how Paganini meant for the 5th Caprice to be played. I also heard that there was a time when no one in the world could play it. Sounds very interesting, I should look more into him. |
Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: January 12 2006 at 04:57
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For me, classical music often seems to be lacking something and I tried to work out what it is. I figured out that it's the rythym section. I like music with drums and bass and a bit of pace and aggression and classical music misses that most of the time. I really like the sound of classical instruments though so when they are played together with a rock band, that's the best music for me. I am very much into things like:
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10"> 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 12 2006 at 20:09
Probably you never heard A Night at the Bald Mountain or In the Hall of the Mountain King, that's aggressive and full of rhythm. Many Modern Classical composers added solid percussion and aggression to their music also. Iván
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