Top 100
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Topic: Top 100
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Top 100
Date Posted: November 27 2005 at 12:43
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I don't understand why Camel's SnowGoose is number 13 when half of the albums in front have a lower rating...
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Replies:
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: November 27 2005 at 13:08
^ Because the position is calculated using a combination of popularity (number of ratings) and quality (average rating). ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to: 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: November 27 2005 at 18:35
| Hmm... I don't really understand... The Camel album has TONS of reviews and a rating better than half the ratings in front of it... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: November 27 2005 at 18:43
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^ all the albums that outrank Camel - The Snow Goose have more ratings ... except Rush - Moving Pictures, which has a better average. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: LuciferJim
Date Posted: December 11 2005 at 17:29
| How does it work? What's the formula? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 11 2005 at 17:34
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This is the principle: avg_rating * avg_rating * avg_rating * log(number_of_ratings)
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: LuciferJim
Date Posted: December 11 2005 at 17:41
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Ah, thanks. But.... why is the number of ratings considered a factor? I mean, if tomorrow 50.000 people are going to review the worst prog album on the archives: 1.0 * 1.0 * 1.0 * 1.0 * 50.000 = Nr 1.  |
Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: December 12 2005 at 04:17
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^ Well certainly that is not going to happen and besides if number of ratings where not included the list would change each day and you would get tons of albums with perfect 5 that has only been reviewed a couple of times... ...Besides if the album is the worst prog album of all time why would 50 000 buy it then ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Fjuffe/?chartstyle=sideRed - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/sideRed/recenttracks/Fjuffe.gif - |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 12 2005 at 04:26
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Your formula isn't correct: 1.0 * 1.0 * 1.0 * 1.0 * log(50.000) = ? Have a look of how the value of the log() function computes for different input values ... you'll notice the dampening effect. the higher the input value, the less is the effect of a further increase of it. log(5) = 0.69 log(10) = 1 log(20) = 1.3 log(30) = 1.47 log(40) = 1.6 log(50) = 1.69 log(60) = 1.77 log(70) = 1.84 log(80) = 1.90 log(90) = 1.95 log(100) = 2 log(110) = 2.04 log(120) = 2.07 log(130) = 2.11 log(140) = 2.14 log(150) = 2.17 ... ...
log(500) = 2.69 log(5000) = 3.69 log(50000) = 4.69 ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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LuciferJim wrote:Posted By: LuciferJim
Date Posted: December 12 2005 at 05:23
Ah, I see now. Very clever.   I understand why popularity is a factor. You don't want 5 people rating an album 5, so it gets on the top of the list. However, when an album loses with a higher rating (For example 4.68), with 171 people who rated it, to an an album with a lower rating (Let's say 4.58), with 331 people who rated it, I don't think popularity should be a factor anymore. Uh, if you know what I mean. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 12 2005 at 07:22
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^ I know what you mean. Last week I thought about it and had an interesting idea: What if we only count the positive ratings as number_of_ratings (ratings of 3, 4 or 5 stars)? That would solve the problem IMO ... in your example in the above post the albums might still be "reversed", but if the second album has 140 more "satisfied users", why not prefer it to the other one? There is no way to say which is the "better" album, some people will say that they prefer the higher rated, others will choose the more popular one. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: LuciferJim
Date Posted: December 12 2005 at 10:56
| Have you ever considered to just base the list on the ratings, but only with a minimum of votes, say 30 or so? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 12 2005 at 13:40
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no, not really ... well, not for THAT list. But I think that there should be other top 100 lists ... top 100 new albums, top 100 albums with very few reviews, top 100 albums with "some" reviews ... I'll ask mailto:M@x - M@x about these things when he has more time on his hands. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: December 12 2005 at 15:08
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The options on how to base the chart have been discussed in great detail several times. These did include a straight average, subject to a minimum number of ratings. I can't remember the thread names off hand, but they should be findable. The basis for the chart has changed a number of times and there's no reason why it should not change again. Discussion on the topic is always welcome, indeed to be encouraged. I think the way it is arrived at just now is pretty good though. |
Posted By: louison
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 04:49
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I think imdb rating
calculation method has it all (minimum votes, ignoring votes given with
bad intentions (trying to raise the rating of an album by giving very
low marks to others), votes versus ratings, etc.). Have a look at the
following explanation given in the top 250 page. It might give an idea. The formula for calculating the Top Rated 250 Titles gives a true Bayesian estimate: weighted rank (WR) = (v ÷ (v+m)) × R + (m ÷ (v+m)) × Cfor the Top 250, only votes from regular voters are considered. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 05:01
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^ lol ... I recently browsed the imdb and examined this formula ... we'd have to apply it to the data in the archives and compare results. The question is: What would be a reasonable value for the minimum number of votes ... 20, 50, 100? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: LuciferJim
Date Posted: December 13 2005 at 10:04
Well, that depends, whether or not you feel these albums should belong to the list: Camel - Moonmadness (107) Jethro Tull - Aqualung (102) Rush - A Farewell to Kings (95) Gentle Giant - In a Glass House (80) Gentle Giant - The Power and the Glory (63) Supertramp - Crime of the Century (60) Porcupine Tree - The Sky Moves Sideways (55) Frank Zappa - Hot Rats (55) Opeth - Still Life (49) Queen - Queen II (45) Mahavishnu Orchestra - Birds of Fire (40) Frank Zappa - We're Only In It For the Money (37) Focus - Hamburger Concerto (33) Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante (22) Frank Zappa - The Grand Wazoo (20) Fates Warning - Still Life (12) Pink Floyd - PULSE (8) Camel - Coming of Age (5) Queensryche - Operation LIVECRIME (4) To name a few albums and the number of votes. |