Who was better for YES as a band

I think bruford was

This is an ancient question, that has been run into the ground, not by you, but by Yes fans in general.

It depends on what you mean, exactly.

• Bill's drumming on CttE is better than Alan's drumming on Topo.
• Alan's drumming on anything post-Topo is better than Bill's drumming on ABWH or any of Bill's silly electro drumming. In particular Alan's drumming on the Keys studio material is fantastic.
• Alan has contributed more to the writing of Yes music.
• Alan appreciates and respects Yes more.
• Alan is more important in the history of Yes because he's been a stablizing influence, a peace maker, and without Alan, the chances of Yes lasting past the mid-70s would have been diminished. And while Yes was at its creative peak in the early 70s, the band has also made a lot of wonderful music since then.

So overall, I would go against the obvious answer and say Alan is more important to the history of the band.

Like Peter Gabriel with Genesis, Bill's tenure with Yes was so many years ago, but it was within those short precious years that Bill made a name for himself, but yet he became a drumming god within King Crimson....

But yet I associate Yes more with Alan then I do Bill.....

Alan... Relayer was his shining moment as a drummer...

Charles

Bruford makes Yes sound a LOT better. Listen to Close to the Edge from "an evening of yes music plus" and listen to any other version with Alan White on drums, and it's apparent.

Personality wise though, Bruford doesn't seem to mesh well with the other guys. They hate each other too much to work together.

But if they could get along, i'd remove Alan White and stick Bruford in his place without thinking twice about it.

I Like Bruford more, but i think he was the perfect drummer for King Crimson than for Yes, so White was also the best replacement.

.......

sorry if this is an obvious question but i dont know nothing about Yes' history...

Is it true that Bruford left Yes because of his problems with Chris Squire?

kirklott wrote: This is an ancient question, that has been run into the ground, not by you, but by Yes fans in general. It depends on what you mean, exactly. Bill's drumming on CttE is better than Alan's drumming on Topo. Alan's drumming on anything post-Topo is better than Bill's drumming on ABWH or any of Bill's silly electro drumming. In particular Alan's drumming on the Keys studio material is fantastic. Alan has contributed more to the writing of Yes music. Alan appreciates and respects Yes more. Alan is more important in the history of Yes because he's been a stablizing influence, a peace maker, and without Alan, the chances of Yes lasting past the mid-70s would have been diminished. And while Yes was at its creative peak in the early 70s, the band has also made a lot of wonderful music since then. So overall, I would go against the obvious answer and say Alan is more important to the history of the band.

Bill's SILLY electro drumming???????????...Well I suppose we all have our opinions.

gok22us wrote: Bruford makes Yes sound a LOT better. Listen to Close to the Edge from "an evening of yes music plus" and listen to any other version with Alan White on drums, and it's apparent. Personality wise though, Bruford doesn't seem to mesh well with the other guys. They hate each other too much to work together. But if they could get along, i'd remove Alan White and stick Bruford in his place without thinking twice about it.

Ummmm......do they REALLY hate eachother????????

Chris Squire and Bill Bruford supposedly have a very rocky relationship, and have come to blows

Bill hates Jon Anderson's lyrics and music. He might not hate jon personally, but he doesnt like working with him.

   It`s hard to choose.Yeah,White has done more music with Yes and stuff.

   When Bruford was in the band then the band made the best Yes music ever.

   Bruford is more skilled  drummer. (Has more talent)

gok22us wrote: Bill hates Jon Anderson's lyrics and music. He might not hate jon personally, but he doesnt like working with him.

That's not completey true. He did enjoy working with Anderson again back in 1989 for the Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe album. He liked Jon's enthousiasm for the music, and he liked the fact that though he couldn't understand anything from his lyrics, he still thought that Anderson was a powerful lyrics writer.

Funny, Bruford was only for 4 years Yes' drummer, while Alan White is Yes' drummer for the last 33 years.

That says nothing about their quality though. I really like Bruford a lot, and I like a lot of the albums he played on.

Alan White has meant a lot for Yes though. Indeed as a peace keeper in the band (psychologically) and time keeper (drummer) and he contributed lots of little parts to Yes music.

Mostly I don't notice White's drumming when I listen to the Yes albums he played on. Only on Tormato there are some parts that I'm aware that he's drumming. Still, he plays an important role within Yes.

Bill Bruford is a better drummer in all senses. Alan White is very good, but he does not have that jazzy style that makes Bruford so good. I do agree with Kirklott' opinion: White is more important to Yes's history than Bruford.

By the way, Bruford's drumming with Crimson is actually better than wiht Yes.

richardh wrote: I think its like comparing apples and oranges.The best way to judge their respective skills is to listen to Rick Wakemans 'Six Wives Of Henry VIII' where they both contribute to different tracks (3 each).White is a powerhouse drummer while Bruford is more subtle.Both are excellent in their own right.That doesnt answer the question but I agree with kirklott that White has helped keep the band together over the years so that makes him more important to Yes.

You've nailed it there - Bruford is a jazz drummer, White is a rock drummer. I love Bruford's playing - he has a great touch - but I can't imagine Bruford playing Gates of Delirium or Ritual.

The question here is who was the better drummer for Yes, and Alan White has proved himself in that capacity many times over. He established himself on Relayer and GFTO and has maintained his position on the Yes drum stool ever since, through all their ups and downs. Bruford is unquestionably the better drummer, but he was better suited to a band like King Crimson where he had the scope to improvise.

Proglover wrote: Bill's SILLY electro drumming???????????...Well I suppose we all have our opinions.

What was silly about it?

Plastic Man wrote: i believe squire was better with bruford in the group. its like his bass playing went way downhill when bruford left. im a bruford man myself.

I don't think that's accurate. Bruford reportedly said "the worst nightmare for a any drummer is to play with Chris Squire" or something like that.

In any case, while Bill is BY FAR better drummer than Alan White, I think Alan's playing fits much better the "Yes sound", his playing on the "Bruford songs" isn't that complex yet much more powerful, for example I love the way Alan plays on And you & I and Starship Trooper, he gives these songs a "rockier" yet very progressive feel. Bill is more of an experimental drummer and his style is more at home with King Crimson IMO.

Charles wrote: Like Peter Gabriel with Genesis, Bill's tenure with Yes was so many years ago, but it was within those short precious years that Bill made a name for himself, but yet he became a drumming god within King Crimson.... But yet I associate Yes more with Alan then I do Bill.....   Alan... Relayer was his shining moment as a drummer...   Charles

I agree. Alan nailed Relayer especially and did a damn good job for yes. I must say though, that while Bruford was in Yes he was excellent, I much prefer his stuff with KC which is amazing. Both good drummers. But overall, for Yes at least, Bruford wins it i think, although alan does appreciate the band more and fits better. Extremely close call, but bruford is very slightly ahead.

el böthy wrote: Well...Bruford is technically better and stuff...and I do like his work better...but Im happy he left Yes to join Crimson...because in Yes he did an amazing job, but in Crimson...specially in the 80!!!

Well. I prefer Bruford's playing in 70's with Wetton, in contrast to the 80's I think the Three of a perfect pair album is the weakest album that Bruford ever played. But Discipline album is an exception, just listen Indiscipline.

What ever we say

I think Tales From Topographic Oceans would've been a better album had Bill drummed on it. His drumming would've made the more tedious sections a lot more interesting.

Tony Kaye got booted out (or left, I don't think anybody's sure) because his playing was no longer intricate enough for Yes's evolving sound.  Rick became more suitable for the role, so he was given it.  Bill probably didn't leave because he felt he could no longer contribute, but in my opinion he'd run his course with Yes and it was time for someone new.  I find Alan's renditions of the CTTE songs just as good as Bill's (though no better), and perhaps more suitable for an energetic live setting.  Anything before CTTE doesn't sound quite as good with Alan on drums (although it does rock harder, which is nice for the sake of variety.)  TYA and Fragile are Bill's territory.  However, can you imagine Bill playing Ritual? (I personally love Alan's performance on TFTO, though many disagree.)  How about Gates of Delerium?  Sound Chaser?  Nope.  Relayer was all Alan.  The project may have turned out differently with Bill in the drum stool, but I like it the way it is.

My point is that although Bill was (and is) undoubtedly the superior drummer (although Alan's no slouch), NIETHER can be given the title of "Difinitive Yes Drummer", because they played in two different incarnations of Yes, one which was more suited to Bill, and one which was more suited to Alan.

Just my opinion.  

Plastic Man wrote: by the way, how the hell did alan white lose his british accent?

He lives in Seattle now.

gok22us wrote: Bruford makes Yes sound a LOT better. Listen to Close to the Edge from "an evening of yes music plus" and listen to any other version with Alan White on drums, and it's apparent.

I totally disagree, and have no idea how you can say that.

Bruford's "electro" drumming is the second worst aspect of that album, after the fact that Squire's backing vocals are absent.

Proglover wrote: Bill's SILLY electro drumming???????????...Well I suppose we all have our opinions.

I'm not the only person who has critiqued Bill's electro drumming in this thread.

So yes, you are entitled to your (minority) opinion.

Plastic Man wrote: by the way, how the hell did alan white lose his british accent?

If I understand correctly, he's lived in the Seattle area for at least 2 decades.

That and tons of enriched Wonder Bread

Prosciutto wrote: I don't think that's accurate. Bruford reportedly said "the worst nightmare for a any drummer is to play with Chris Squire" or something like that.

Well, Bruford is the Daffy Duck of prog. I made that up, so if you wish to quote me, you must pay me 25 cents for each use.

Anyway, I love Bill, but he has duck lips and criticizes everyone with his delightfully cynical dry wit. Squire is, in my opinion, the best bass player ever. So regardless of whether Squire's late to gigs or whatever, it was an honor for Bruford to play with Squire (and vice versa)

kirklott wrote: Prosciutto wrote: I don't think that's accurate. Bruford reportedly said "the worst nightmare for a any drummer is to play with Chris Squire" or something like that. Well, Bruford is the Daffy Duck of prog. I made that up, so if you wish to quote me, you must pay me 25 cents for each use. Anyway, I love Bill, but he has duck lips and criticizes everyone with his delightfully cynical dry wit. Squire is, in my opinion, the best bass player ever. So regardless of whether Squire's late to gigs or whatever, it was an honor for Bruford to play with Squire (and vice versa)

What's up, Doc??

Phil wrote: M. B. Zapelini wrote: By the way, Bruford's drumming with Crimson is actually better than wiht Yes. I've just got hold of the 4 CD box set "The Great Deceiver" of live Crimson material from 73/74 and I have to agree with you.

Good choice, Phil! This box set is awesome.