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1st Prog album?

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Topic: 1st Prog album?
Posted By: W.Chuck
Subject: 1st Prog album?
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 17:30
Which was the first prog album?

I read it was "In the Court of the Crimson King" by King Crimson, but was it really the first one? What's your opinion?

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Replies:
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 17:58
Many people say it was Sgt. pepper that gave them the idea that musical boundries in rock could be successfully broken.

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Posted By: -bp-
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 18:00
Originally posted by W.Chuck W.Chuck wrote:

Which was the first prog album?

not sure, but ITCOTCK was my first


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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 18:02

I'm no expert, but I think ITCOTCK was the breakthrough or groundbreaking prog album. But certainly Sqt. Pepper and some stuff by The Nice came first chronologically.



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Posted By: rockandrail
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 18:06

There are prog elements and one surely prog number in the Byrds "Fifth Dimension", 1966; there are more than prog elements, there is an epic suite with mellotron in Steve Miller band "Children of the Future". The Moody Blues "The Days of Future Passed" and "In Search of the Lost Chord" were released Before ITCOTCK.

However it is true that ITCOTCK is a real breakthrough in the way it is not an album with progressive elements, nor an album that sounds progressive at times. It is progressive from the beginning to the end. In this way, it could be the first willingly produced progressive album.



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Posted By: mirco
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 18:16
Fripp was who baptized the genre, anyway.

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Posted By: W.Chuck
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 18:36
Thanks!

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 18:43
The Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out (1959)  

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Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 18:44

"Sgt. Pepper's..." is progressive, but it is not Progressive Rock ("progessive rock" is not the same thing as "Progressive Rock"). Neither was ITCOTCK the first Progressive Rock album. ThE NICE had already released three albums before ITCOTCK came out, and even if one were not to recognise "The Thoughts Of Emerlist Davjack" as Progressive Rock (I certainly think it is), surely there can be no argument about "Ars Longa Vita Brevis".

Come to that, GENESIS' "From Genesis To Revelaton" was released before ITCOTCK, and so were COLOSSEUM's "Those Who Are About To Die Salute You", VDGG's "Aerosol Grey Machine" and various other Progressive Rock albums.

ITCOTCK being the first Progressive Rock album seems to have become something of an urban myth. It's not correct.

 



Posted By: walrus
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 19:23

There some records before  'in the court..' that have prog elements, like sgt peppers, the nice records, early moody blues records, and some others... but the real first album that all in itself can be called 'progressive' its ;in the court of the crimson king' no doubt about it. they didnt open the door, but  theyd teach how to cross on throug...

 

sorry about my creppy english.



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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 19:35

Its hard to tell really as a lot ov bands were begining to experiment with this sort of thing towards the end of the sixties, i couldnt really name names though as i dont know that much about it. 



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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 21:53
Piper At The Gates Of Dawn is two years older. Certainly on of the first pyre prog albums.

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Posted By: floydaholic
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 22:18
There were proggy albums before ITCOTCK, but none really brought the genre to fruition like ITCOTCK did.

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 22:21
Originally posted by floydaholic floydaholic wrote:

There were proggy albums before ITCOTCK, but none really brought the genre to fruition like ITCOTCK did.


agreed it really was the album that the movement that was prog rock, coalesced around.


still I think that Time Out might have been the first true 'prog' album ha hahh ha.


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Posted By: ulver982
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 22:38

 

 

Then Opeth gave way to...

 



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Posted By: horza
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 12:28
Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band - Jollity Farm (or the album with that track on it)

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Posted By: yargh
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 12:38

Originally posted by floydaholic floydaholic wrote:

There were proggy albums before ITCOTCK, but none really brought the genre to fruition like ITCOTCK did.

Exactly.  ITCOTCK was the template for the progressive movement.  There were albums that used the influences that would become the sources for prog before ITCOTCK, but none did so in the way that that one did, and none were nearly as influential. 



Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 12:55

There is of course Zappa with his Freak Out! at 1966, and although whether that one is prog or not is highly questionable, Uncle Frank was surely ahead of his time. The album is mind blowing and it even has an epic!



Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 12:57

It is discussed in these two threads:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2273&KW=first - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2273&a mp;KW=first

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3493&KW=first&PN=0&TPN=2 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3493&a mp;KW=first&PN=0&TPN=2



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Posted By: yargh
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 13:03
Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

There is of course Zappa with his Freak Out! at 1966, and although whether that one is prog or not is highly questionable, Uncle Frank was surely ahead of his time. The album is mind blowing and it even has an epic!

Absolutely Free is a good candidate for first prog album.  Pretty much all the elements are there and it predates Sgt. Pepper (recorded November 1966), but goes beyond Freak Out.



Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 13:45
Originally posted by W.Chuck W.Chuck wrote:

Which was the first prog album?

I read it was "In the Court of the Crimson King" by King Crimson, but was it really the first one? What's your opinion?


Impatiently Sleepy(since this is the 3rd or 4th or 5th time this thread has run, and the same tired answers come out), Edison singing Mary Had A Little Lamb - Evil Smilethere were no records before that!


Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 14:00

Hard to pin point one, but I personally think it was quite some time prior to 'In The Court Of The Crimson King' myself. This was perhaps an early consolidation of themes found in early albums, such as;

John Coltrane- A Love Supreme (a very early concept album, with such depth, continuity and commitment it's hard for me to just plainly label it 'jazz')

Graham Bond Organisation- The Sound Of '65 ( an early attempt at jazz/ blues rock)

Joe Harriott/ John Mayer- Indo Jazz Fusions 1 and 2 (could be wrong about this, but this is certainly the first time I've seen the word 'fusion' crop up on an album- again, it's musically highly developed, and fusions of different styles was surely the whole purpose of prog, initially?)

The Yardbirds- Roger The Engineer (a pioneering album, and hugely varied, with psych pop, blues rock, gregorian chants, guitar instrumentals and even a jazz influence creeps in Jeff Beck's wild guitar work)

The Who- A Quick One, While He's Away (not a prog album as such, but features a very early attempt at a song suite in the title track)

Frank Zappa- Freak Out!/ Absolutely Free/ ...Money/Lumpy Gravy (took hugely uncommercial music and themes into mainstream rock/pop)

The Beatles- Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt Pepper (hugely revolutionary, as they feature a band experimenting with a myriad of genres and utilising new production methods)

Vanilla Fudge- s/t (hugely influential, as it saw a band taking pop songs and creating something extremely new and challenging with them)

The Zombies- Oddesey And Oracle (arguably took the 'pop' three minute song idea to its maximum, with huge intricacy, brilliant themes, plus swathes of mellotron and pseudo classical themes)

Nirvana- The Story Of Simon Simopath/ The Pretty Things- SF Sorrow (both were hugely pioneering, as they had an ongoing story throughout a whole album)

Genesis- From Genesis To Revelation (more revolutionary than you'd imagine, with intricate song arrangements and a clear concept)

Touch- s/t (features some of the longest songs on an album up to that point, with much intricacy and musical experimentation)

 

I'm not going to pick just one album from these, yet I feel all of these (from 1964-68) feature traits that would soon be apparent in prog rock.



Posted By: DBSilver
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 14:04

Originally posted by <SPAN =bold>salmacis</SPAN> salmacis wrote:

The Zombies- Oddesey And Oracle (arguably took the 'pop' three minute song idea to its maximum, with huge intricacy, brilliant themes, plus swathes of mellotron and pseudo classical themes)

I think you hit the nail on the head with this description.  I am not trying to make the case that this is the first prog ablum - only that this was an insightfull description of this classic.



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Posted By: XTChuck
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 14:26

Mothers of Invention "Absolutely Free" is probably the first prog album.  It should also be considered the first concept album.



Posted By: Space Dimentia
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 14:28
The first prog album was Srgt Pepper by the Beatles that in turn inspired Pink Floyd, King Crimson etc who than evolved pychedelia into prog they inturn inspired the likes of Iron Maiden, Dream Theater etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.

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Posted By: Badabec
Date Posted: November 15 2005 at 12:39
My first two prog-albums were Gentle Giant's Free Hand and Three Friends


Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: November 15 2005 at 13:07
"In the Court of the Crimson King" was the first "real" prog album, yes. And it is still too this day one of the essential prog albums.

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Posted By: XTChuck
Date Posted: November 15 2005 at 15:47
Originally posted by yargh yargh wrote:

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

There is of course Zappa with his Freak Out! at 1966, and although whether that one is prog or not is highly questionable, Uncle Frank was surely ahead of his time. The album is mind blowing and it even has an epic!

Absolutely Free is a good candidate for first prog album.  Pretty much all the elements are there and it predates Sgt. Pepper (recorded November 1966), but goes beyond Freak Out.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to say it was Absolutely Free



Posted By: Ipacial Section
Date Posted: November 15 2005 at 16:19

Sgt Pepper's (1967) & Piper At The Gates (1967) had too many pop songs to be called Prog.

A Sourcerful Of Secrets (1968) however, was very much a Prog album. Although it was still let down by perhaps 2 songs that were abit poppy.

Ummagumma (1969) was very Prog. But King Crimson released their first album the same year.

So IMO, the first Prog album is debatable. Although i would say that the first mainstream Prog song was Tomorrow Never Knows.



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