Not prog in the sense of prog (King Crimson, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Gong et al), but progressive - and unmistakably rock. Their first album was a veritable milestone in rock, the second, a few more yards and so on, until "1984" proved there were no more steps for them to take in a forwards direction.

Magnificent guitar work, outrageous and stunning vocals with clever lyrics, solid bass and drums and even a bit of variety ("Ice Cream Man", "Happy Trails", "Women and Children First") - good old Halen - can't knock 'em!

What impresses me most about EvH is that he not only built his own guitar (like Brian May) and developed the technique of hammer-ons to an art-form, but electronically altered his amp as well to get that characteristic "hot" sound. When a musician goes that far out of their way to get the sound they want, you have have some respect.

What impresses me most about EvH is that he not only built his own guitar (like Brian May) and developed the technique of hammer-ons to an art-form, but electronically altered his amp as well to get that characteristic "hot" sound. When a musician goes that far out of their way to get the sound they want, you have have some respect.

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No doubt, Eddie is a master of a monophonic tapping, to say the least. Under prog-moments I meant (very rare) for this type of music use of a complex rhythmical structures in their songs. Yes, Eddie's sustain also continues to amaze me, albeit he is not my favorite guitar player, while Brian is 

I heard a version of the theory on tapping. EVH was ata Genesis concert and Steve Hackett used this technique. Eddie took the idea from there and launched an innovative style. Eddie was also a huge Allan Holdsworth fan and was instrumental in getting the contract for the "Road Games" album. As amazing as "Eruption" is, I thought "Spanish Fly" was even more so. It was a warm-up done on an acoustic... awesome.

I would have loved to have heard EVH in a different context and playing keys to a greater extent. He really only tapped a small portion of his actual talent, IMHO.

Van Halen rocked!

Best albums IMO were 'Women & Children first' 'Diver Down' & '1984' They were great showmen and good musicians. EvH's style was very original in rock/metal. I never knew of his Steve Hackett influence, seems like he had good taste too..

I liked them right up until Sammy Hagar started screaming over their music

danbo wrote: I heard a version of the theory on tapping. EVH was ata Genesis concert and Steve Hackett used this technique. Eddie took the idea from there and launched an innovative style. Eddie was also a huge Allan Holdsworth fan and was instrumental in getting the contract for the "Road Games" album. As amazing as "Eruption" is, I thought "Spanish Fly" was even more so. It was a warm-up done on an acoustic... awesome. I would have loved to have heard EVH in a different context and playing keys to a greater extent. He really only tapped a small portion of his actual talent, IMHO.

Very possible, I think, that tapping as a technique has nothing to do with Eddie--he perfected it, that is for sure. And yes, while I like VH and have even couple of their albums (one with Sammy, sorry) I think they never overcame (being a superb musicians) limitations of their genre, no matter how much blazing guitarplaying it required from Eddie. I personally love song Dreams (Sammy sings--and yes, I could be sentimental) and it is there where Eddie's tapping is a pinnacle of perfection.

I read an interview with EVH where he lamented on never being able to create his own Dark Side of the Moon. His music is just rock and roll, he knew it and yearned for something more. You are right, he was limited. However, he could have done whatever he wanted and that's the part that never really made sense. He said if he made a solo album, no one would understand it. Too bad, because some of us in this forum may have understood it. Is it fear of failure or non-acceptance from the masses? He was a kid when Van Halen really launched and his producers basically told him what he HAD to do. After he became a mega-rock star he could have funded his own project and damn the business men.

What is and what shall never be.  

danbo wrote: I read an interview with EVH where he lamented on never being able to create his own Dark Side of the Moon. His music is just rock and roll, he knew it and yearned for something more. You are right, he was limited. However, he could have done whatever he wanted and that's the part that never really made sense. He said if he made a solo album, no one would understand it. Too bad, because some of us in this forum may have understood it. Is it fear of failure or non-acceptance from the masses? He was a kid when Van Halen really launched and his producers basically told him what he HAD to do. After he became a mega-rock star he could have funded his own project and damn the business men. What is and what shall never be.

Agree entirely!!!! People who listen to Allan Holdsworth could have appreciated Eddie's legatos (that is where his tapping IMHO came from) And this is so sad that musicians with virtually unlimited ability limited themselves to a basically commercial pop-metal, albeit, U are right--it is still good old R'n'R in the end and a great entertainment!!! 

What is and what shall never be.  

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One of the reason (in continuation...) that Eddie was predespositioned to some kind prog-art mark is the fact (and I listened to all VH in my lifetime) is the fact that Eddie is not very.....bluezy, IMHO. Once one is into bluez, one is gonna stay there and nothing wrong with that (I personally adore great bluezmen)--just did not happen for him.

I love Sammy's voice. He was a much more versatile singer than DLR. I found Roth's squeal a bit hard to stomache after a while.

5150 Rocked.

 One of the best, top down, radio cranked, CD's ever! PCH (Pacific Coast Highway) and Blond, wind in yer hair.... f**k-n-A sweet..... Ah, lost youth...

Hagar more versatile/stronger than Roth?

Interesting! I feel exactly the opposite.

I like Hagar's voice - but I thought it suited his solo stuff and the stuff he did with Ronnie Montrose much better (Space Station #5, or Bad Motor Scooter, anyone?). His work with VH (Van Hagar) has not really grown on me.

Diamond Dave has one of the most incredible, versatile, best-pitched voices in rock, IMO - from his incredible inimitable back-throated screams to the hard-edged agressive rock vocals to the jazz man sound. I thought his first two solo albums were among the best rock albums I'd ever heard in the mid-to-late 1980s (mind you, he did enlist Billy Sheehan and Steve Vai!).

Aside from the squeals, Dave didn't have much range.... He did have one of those vaudeville styled deliveries. 

Sammy could hit some high notes with power.

Put it this way, Sammy could sing any DLR tune and pull it off. Dave would never be able to follow Sammy's vocal tracks. I read an interview with Eddie and he said everything they recorded with DLR was tuned down a 1/2 to a whole step. With Sammy he had more options and could use standard tuning. Don't forget that Sammy played guitar too. Nice option to have.

Maybe I just got too used to DLR, but somehow when I hear him singing the early VH stuff, he just seems to get it right, while Hagar seems softer to me, somehow.

As for Dave's range, it seemed to be quite a fine baritone range, with a nice round bottom end (missus) and I liked the squeals, although I note that he didn't venture too high in normal singing. Whatever, the tone of his voice appeals to me in the entire range he uses, but Hagar's only really seems to work at the higher end - and there it doesn't "do it" for me when I hear him sing DLR stuff.

I think Dave should have done more "Vaudeville" stuff - his cover of "That's Life" and "Just A Gigolo" are incredible.

Yeah - I know Hagar also played the guitar - I have quite a bit of his solo material. He came out with one or two dodgy bits himself - what was happening with "Red"?

I didn't know about the tuning thing - I thought it was tuned down a little to get a deeper, richer, "ballsier" sound.

You live and learn

Don't get me wrong... I liked it all. Funny though, I never listened to VH until after 1984 came out. I was a jazz/prog snob in those days.

I never really got into Sammy's solo stuff or Montrose either, for that matter.

There are some hidden gems lurking in Sammy's back catalog if you haven't heard them, already. For one, check out the 1978 album, Musical Chairs. A great, well-rounded platter, and then you get to the final track, "Crack In The World." Fabulous! That record finds Sammy doing some things he didn't really do once he hooked up with VH, and beyond. I like some of Sam's post-VH stuff, too.

The VH vocalists' argument will never end, but here's how I look at it:

DLR - the voice of classic VH. Nothing will ever change that.

Sam Hagar - the merging of two distinct rock entities. And yes, Sam's voice is stronger and I'm sure having another axeman in the band lent a fuller sound when it was required.

Cherone - a good (if Hagar-ish) voice, and an album that isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. "One I Want" is a killer track, and the whole album merits about 3.5/5 stars. A valiant if short-lived effort.

Of the three new songs with Hagar, "It's About Time" is plainly awful. It sounds like it was slapped together in the studio in less than a day. With Elmer's Glue.

VH has a career (?) again. Eddie and Alex need Sam more than he needs them. They finally admitted it to themselves. DLR's pipes are a historical fact; everybody knows that. I understand he was quite the jackass on the Sam/Dave Tour. DLR hasn't had much credibility since the '80s ended. "Me Wise Magic" was a kickass VH tune, though Eddie said there was no way Dave could have pulled the high notes off in a live setting.

If you've never got into Montrose, get "Rock the Nation" - it's AWESOME, with a capital AWESOME!

Almost prog

danbo wrote: I read an interview with EVH where he lamented on never being able to create his own Dark Side of the Moon. His music is just rock and roll, he knew it and yearned for something more. You are right, he was limited. However, he could have done whatever he wanted and that's the part that never really made sense. He said if he made a solo album, no one would understand it. Too bad, because some of us in this forum may have understood it. Is it fear of failure or non-acceptance from the masses? He was a kid when Van Halen really launched and his producers basically told him what he HAD to do. After he became a mega-rock star he could have funded his own project and damn the business men. What is and what shall never be.

imagine if the Star Fleet Project had taken off...instead of just a few throwaway songs...

picture Brian May and EVH on a guitar-fueled instrumental prog journey!

Van Halen is THE hard rock band of the late 70's and early 80's!

After Lee Roth's departure, the decline automatically started!