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Prog musicians who DIDN'T go mainstream in the 80s

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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=134158
Printed Date: January 08 2025 at 02:03
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Topic: Prog musicians who DIDN'T go mainstream in the 80s
Posted By: Faul_McCartney
Subject: Prog musicians who DIDN'T go mainstream in the 80s
Date Posted: January 04 2025 at 21:46
Many of our beloved musicians turned to pop in the 80s. But I'd rather talk about those who, at least for a time, took a less mainstream approach. It doesn't have to prog per se. The most notable example would 
be 80s King Crimson, who found a way to keep their prog sensibilities in the new decade. Though I would argue "SO" was pretty mainstream, Peter Gabriel III showed a more interesting side of pop. I can't say I know much of Peter Hammill's career in the 80s, but I think "A Black Box" is a pretty good showcase of all the things I like about 80s music. Plus there's a side long epic!



Replies:
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 04 2025 at 22:21
Are you talking about prog artists that started in the 70s and then went pop or just prog artists who didn't go pop in general?

Lots really. Eskaton, Cardiacs, This Heat, Bacamarte, Dun, SBB, Present, Univers Zero, Kultivator, Zamla Mammaz Manna / Von Zamla, Solaris, Aqsak Maboul, Arrigo Barnabe, Shub-Niggurath, Asia Minor, Kenso, Thinking Plauge, Hawkwind, Art Zoyd, Devil Doll, Pekka Pohjola, Fred Frith, Robert Wyatt, Eider Stellaire, Art Bears, Picchio dal Pozzo, Rahmann, Modry Efekt, Ruins, News From Babel, Abus Dangeraux, Allan Holdsworth, Mr Sirius, Alas, Celelalte Cuvinte, Skeleton Crew, Horizont, Ain Soph, Igra Staklenih Perli, Cassiber, Debile Menthol, Begnagrad, Paga Group, Orthotonics, Aburadako, Hellebore, Het, However, After Dinner, Ur Khaos, Miriodor, Birdsongs Of The Mesozoic, Stromboli, The Dregs, Nazca, Confusional Quartet, The Muffins

Well, i could go on but i think you get my drift ;)



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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: January 04 2025 at 22:52
SBB technically didn't turn to a consumerist pop direction in the 80s and arguably, their magnum opus came out in 1981 (recorded the year before). However, they disbanded in late 1981, so they didn't even have enough time during that decade to jump that shark, you know. ;p

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Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: January 04 2025 at 23:32
I don't think So is THAT mainstream. Millgram's 37? This Is the Picture? Even the groove on Big Time. A-Ha and Madonna weren't doing that kind of stuff, to my knowledge.


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 05 2025 at 02:32
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

I don't think So is THAT mainstream. Millgram's 37? This Is the Picture? Even the groove on Big Time. A-Ha and Madonna weren't doing that kind of stuff, to my knowledge.

Absolutely.


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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 05 2025 at 02:36
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

I don't think So is THAT mainstream. Millgram's 37? This Is the Picture? Even the groove on Big Time. A-Ha and Madonna weren't doing that kind of stuff, to my knowledge.

Ugh... A-ha and Madonna in the same sentence. A-ha deserve better. Big smile 


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: January 05 2025 at 02:51
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

I don't think So is THAT mainstream. Millgram's 37? This Is the Picture? Even the groove on Big Time.
Compared to these So is mainstream alright. Doesn't mean that the album has to lack in quality. Mainstream in the 1980's was allowed quite a lot of artistic freedom.
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Are you talking about prog artists that started in the 70s and then went pop or just prog artists who didn't go pop in general?

Lots
really. Eskaton, Cardiacs, This Heat, Bacamarte, Dun, SBB, Present,
Univers Zero, Kultivator, Zamla Mammaz Manna / Von Zamla, Solaris, Aqsak
Maboul, Arrigo Barnabe, Shub-Niggurath, Asia Minor, Kenso, Thinking
Plauge, Hawkwind, Art Zoyd, Devil Doll, Pekka Pohjola, Fred Frith,
Robert Wyatt, Eider Stellaire, Art Bears, Picchio dal Pozzo, Rahmann,
Modry Efekt, Ruins, News From Babel, Abus Dangeraux, Allan Holdsworth,
Mr Sirius, Alas, Celelalte Cuvinte, Skeleton Crew, Horizont, Ain Soph,
Igra Staklenih Perli, Cassiber, Debile Menthol, Begnagrad, Paga Group,
Orthotonics, Aburadako, Hellebore, Het, However, After Dinner, Ur Khaos,
Miriodor, Birdsongs Of The Mesozoic, Stromboli, The Dregs, Nazca,
Confusional Quartet, The Muffins

Well, i could go on but i think you get my drift ;)



Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: January 05 2025 at 04:16
I, for one, went totally anti-mainstream in the 1980s! 

My band, Casual Crobar, lit up the skies of Tulsa Oklahoma with brilliant renditions of Spinal Tap's debut album (and a bit of Fripp & Eno). 
 
....we must have had an impact, as the Mighty Tap are coming out with new material!

https://deadline.com/2024/03/spinal-tap-sequel-filming-elton-john-paul-mccartney-questlove-garth-brooks-trisha-yearwood-join-1235854578/" rel="nofollow - https://deadline.com/2024/03/spinal-tap-sequel-filming-elton-john-paul-mccartney-questlove-garth-brooks-trisha-yearwood-join-1235854578/  

As the bassist to Robert Fripp's student Alonzo "Lon" Jones, we charted a path that steered right past "mainstream," combining polyrhythms, third-world instrumentation, Australian drummers and all sorts.  Lon's band CAVU was another fixture in Tulsa Oklahoma USA.  

Here, have a taste of CroBar!  (p.s. do you sense the irony?  We were a satire band of a satire band....Möbius strip of bad.  We sucked, and we were proud of it.)  




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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: January 05 2025 at 04:45
King Crimson for sure didn't "go mainstream", however they adapted their approach quite strongly to trends of the time. (I actually loved that at the time and still do.)

This is not meant to criticise them being listed here, just an aspect that is probably worth mentioning. Same Holger Czukay and Brian Eno to some extent, by the way, also Tangerine Dream (partly for technological reasons). All these were still innovative. 


Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: January 05 2025 at 08:03
Hammill, Camel, lot of Zeuhl and RIO bands/artists of course

PG has become mainstream wth his first personal hit single Solsburry Hill from 1976 on.


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 05 2025 at 10:17
Sure the 80s music industry was aiming for the lowest common denominator but the 80s was AMAZINGLY rich in bizarre indie artists lurking in the shadows.

For anyone interested i compiled this follow up 80s version of the Nurse With Wound list and i found well over 2000 weird and freaky artists including prog

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/siLLy_puPPy/nurse-with-wound-wave-strange-beyond-tubular-music-of-the-1980s/" rel="nofollow - https://rateyourmusic.com/list/siLLy_puPPy/nurse-with-wound-wave-strange-beyond-tubular-music-of-the-1980s/





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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: January 05 2025 at 13:16
Pink Floyd's "The Final Cut"  was far from mainstream, but after that <makes sad face>


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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 05 2025 at 20:41
Keith Emerson as a solo artist didn't do anything particularly mainstream but how do we define Emerson, Lake and Powell? That was an attempt to bring back prog in its original form although he then got drawn into the Emerson, Berry and Palmer thing that was horrible AOR.
Vangelis solo was excellent but he did the Jon and Vangelis albums that was sort of art pop (Horizon was a 20 minute track)
Eloy were always prog but 1983's Performance was a bit AOR ish and embraced 80's plastic production values
Rush were selling a ton of albums but I don't anything they did was mainstream, just late 80's a bit dull.
Iron Maiden arguably created progressive metal in that decade but were selling tons
I suspect a lot of underground art based music had nothing to do with 'prog' at the time but we like a bit of revisionism around here. 




Posted By: Rottenprogger
Date Posted: January 05 2025 at 21:02
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Sure the 80s music industry was aiming for the lowest common denominator but the 80s was AMAZINGLY rich in bizarre indie artists lurking in the shadows.

For anyone interested i compiled this follow up 80s version of the Nurse With Wound list and i found well over 2000 weird and freaky artists including prog

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/siLLy_puPPy/nurse-with-wound-wave-strange-beyond-tubular-music-of-the-1980s/" rel="nofollow - https://rateyourmusic.com/list/siLLy_puPPy/nurse-with-wound-wave-strange-beyond-tubular-music-of-the-1980s/


I just wanted to say thanks for this massive musical list. Looking forward to discovering some great music! 


Posted By: Faul_McCartney
Date Posted: January 05 2025 at 23:29
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

King Crimson for sure didn't "go mainstream", however they adapted their approach quite strongly to trends of the time. (I actually loved that at the time and still do.)
In doing this they disprove that "keeping up with the times" or "not getting stale" meant going pop. I'll admit I like some 80s Yes and Genesis, even an Asia song or two, but I always thought that excuse was a bad argument.

Originally posted by mellotronwave mellotronwave wrote:

Hammill, Camel, lot of Zeuhl and RIO bands/artists of course
Been diving further down the RIO rabbit hole. I've been loving Univers Zero in particular! As for 80s Zeuhl, Magma's Retrospektiw is one of my favorites. Now Merci, on the other hand... It's not exactly "normal" but it was certainly an attempt at it.


Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 06 2025 at 04:10
Originally posted by Faul_McCartney Faul_McCartney wrote:

Many of our beloved musicians turned to pop in the 80s
you mean people who knew how to write a good song adapted their craft to the formulas of the new decade? Yep, the most talented did (KC, PF, JT, Genesis, Rush, Camel, etc), while some of the others rejected the progress


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: January 06 2025 at 04:44
Originally posted by Faul_McCartney<br /><div>Been diving further down the RIO rabbit hole. I've been loving Univers Zero in particular! As for 80s Zeuhl, Magma's Retrospektiw is one of my favorites.<br />[/QUOTE Faul_McCartney
Been diving further down the RIO rabbit hole. I've been loving Univers Zero in particular! As for 80s Zeuhl, Magma's Retrospektiw is one of my favorites.
[/QUOTE wrote:


I think Zeuhl and Avant Prog (+ Progressive Electronic) was where Progressive Rock stayed fresh and vibrant in the late 1970's and the early 1980's. Apart from the mentioned UZ and Magma, so
I think Zeuhl and Avant Prog (+ Progressive Electronic) was where Progressive Rock stayed fresh and vibrant in the late 1970's and the early 1980's. Apart from the mentioned UZ and Magma, some of my favorite albums from the latter decade were by:

Art Zoyd, Eskaton, Dun, Kultivator, Rahmann, Abus Dangereux, Eider Stellaire, Present, This Heat, Hellebore, Wha-ha-ha, After Dinner, The Residents...


Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: January 06 2025 at 13:38
I think the real issue for many listeners on this site is what I would call (for lack of a better term) "1980s Production Values". By 1983, recording studios had become VERY high-tech and fully digital, while the analog synths of the 1970s were traded in for instruments like the Fairlight or Synclavier. Guitarists started dabbling in guitar-synths and extensive pedal-boards, and drummers added Simmons drums and other electronic percussion to the sounds at their disposal.

What this led to were albums that no longer sounded like the albums recorded in the 1960s/1970s. To this day, many prog listeners dismiss 1980s material simply because it sounds "computerized" or "plastic", unlike the analog albums from earlier days. Someone above mentioned the Emerson, Lake, and Powell album from 1986. While the album did have a single ("Touch and Go") that did receive a lot of airplay, I remain convinced that many older ELP listeners who hated the album were less offended by Carl Palmer's absence than by the simple fact that the album sounds nothing like Tarkus. And after 15 years of technological advancements, why should it?


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 06 2025 at 16:14
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

I think the real issue for many listeners on this site is what I would call (for lack of a better term) "1980s Production Values". By 1983, recording studios had become VERY high-tech and fully digital, while the analog synths of the 1970s were traded in for instruments like the Fairlight or Synclavier. Guitarists started dabbling in guitar-synths and extensive pedal-boards, and drummers added Simmons drums and other electronic percussion to the sounds at their disposal.

What this led to were albums that no longer sounded like the albums recorded in the 1960s/1970s. To this day, many prog listeners dismiss 1980s material simply because it sounds "computerized" or "plastic", unlike the analog albums from earlier days. Someone above mentioned the Emerson, Lake, and Powell album from 1986. While the album did have a single ("Touch and Go") that did receive a lot of airplay, I remain convinced that many older ELP listeners who hated the album were less offended by Carl Palmer's absence than by the simple fact that the album sounds nothing like Tarkus. And after 15 years of technological advancements, why should it?

Good point regarding Emerson, Lake and Powell not sounding like classic era ELP (1970-74). Certainly I felt at the time that Emerson had dumped the Hammond Organ in favour of inferior sounding keyboards. However the musical ideas mostly were not bad, although personally I think the album would have been a zillion times better if they recruited Terry Bozzio or Simon Phillips instead of 'hard rocker' Cozy Powell.


Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: January 06 2025 at 16:20
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

I think the real issue for many listeners on this site is what I would call (for lack of a better term) "1980s Production Values". By 1983, recording studios had become VERY high-tech and fully digital, while the analog synths of the 1970s were traded in for instruments like the Fairlight or Synclavier. Guitarists started dabbling in guitar-synths and extensive pedal-boards, and drummers added Simmons drums and other electronic percussion to the sounds at their disposal.

What this led to were albums that no longer sounded like the albums recorded in the 1960s/1970s. To this day, many prog listeners dismiss 1980s material simply because it sounds "computerized" or "plastic", unlike the analog albums from earlier days. Someone above mentioned the Emerson, Lake, and Powell album from 1986. While the album did have a single ("Touch and Go") that did receive a lot of airplay, I remain convinced that many older ELP listeners who hated the album were less offended by Carl Palmer's absence than by the simple fact that the album sounds nothing like Tarkus. And after 15 years of technological advancements, why should it?

Good point regarding Emerson, Lake and Powell not sounding like classic era ELP (1970-74). Certainly I felt at the time that Emerson had dumped the Hammond Organ in favour of inferior sounding keyboards. However the musical ideas mostly were not bad, although personally I think the album would have been a zillion times better if they recruited Terry Bozzio or Simon Phillips instead of 'hard rocker' Cozy Powell.
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Keith's Hammond features very prominently on both "The Score" and "Mars, the Bringer of War" (admittedly layered with other keyboards), and even receives a solo spotlight on "The Miracle".


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 06 2025 at 16:29
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

I think the real issue for many listeners on this site is what I would call (for lack of a better term) "1980s Production Values". By 1983, recording studios had become VERY high-tech and fully digital, while the analog synths of the 1970s were traded in for instruments like the Fairlight or Synclavier. Guitarists started dabbling in guitar-synths and extensive pedal-boards, and drummers added Simmons drums and other electronic percussion to the sounds at their disposal.

What this led to were albums that no longer sounded like the albums recorded in the 1960s/1970s. To this day, many prog listeners dismiss 1980s material simply because it sounds "computerized" or "plastic", unlike the analog albums from earlier days. Someone above mentioned the Emerson, Lake, and Powell album from 1986. While the album did have a single ("Touch and Go") that did receive a lot of airplay, I remain convinced that many older ELP listeners who hated the album were less offended by Carl Palmer's absence than by the simple fact that the album sounds nothing like Tarkus. And after 15 years of technological advancements, why should it?

Good point regarding Emerson, Lake and Powell not sounding like classic era ELP (1970-74). Certainly I felt at the time that Emerson had dumped the Hammond Organ in favour of inferior sounding keyboards. However the musical ideas mostly were not bad, although personally I think the album would have been a zillion times better if they recruited Terry Bozzio or Simon Phillips instead of 'hard rocker' Cozy Powell.

Keith's Hammond features very prominently on both "The Score" and "Mars, the Bringer of War" (admittedly layered with other keyboards), and even receives a solo spotlight on "The Miracle".

I wouldn't go with 'prominently' in truth. The Yamaha GX1 is by far the most 'prominent' keyboard and Emerson was also experimenting with MIDI to get that orchestral sound. He said at that time he was most disappointed he couldn't get those sounds on Love Beach and had to wait for the tech to catch up. It was perhaps being slight disengenious as there were more overriding reasons for the partial reformation of ELP (Lake's failed solo career and Emerson getting in to a licencing war with a distributor of his solo albums and so having to park his own attempt at a solo career as a result).



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