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Topic: Quebec's Prog: The Best Prog in North America?Posted By: Hrychu
Subject: Quebec's Prog: The Best Prog in North America?
Date Posted: December 17 2024 at 04:23
It's a very peculiar case, because everything the French-Quebecois do is somehow inferior to the same thing done by the French people from France (animation, comedy, TV shows, you name it).... except for progressive rock.
-------------
Replies: Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: December 17 2024 at 04:27
Iantumaros wrote:
Rock progressif québécois has undeniably forged a remarkable
legacy, artfully amalgamating a plethora of musical influences that
render it not merely prominent within Canada but also illustrious across
the North American continent. Esteemed ensembles such as Harmonium,
Pollen, Maneige, Séguin, and Sloche have made profound contributions to
this movement, their masterworks resonating on a global scale.
Perhaps
that feature stems from Quebec’s unique European ambiance, an essence
that is remarkably absent elsewhere on the continent?
Hey Svettie,
I
think you over-estimate La Belle province's prog band's influenceness
even inside the rest of canada, let alone the North Am continent or even
French-speaking Europe. Few of those bands ventured out west, and when
one if them reached Toronto, it was almost an exploit or lifetime
achievement.
The 70's were difficult time
for Canada & Quebec with the sovereignty crisis looming over the
second biggest land. There was much resentment over Quebec's will to
separate, because it threatened the country's land continuity and losing
the Maritimes Provinces (out east) to the US was a possibility many
Ontarians dreaded. Furthermore, at the height of the crisis (75/77) in
the middle of the cold war, the US amassed troops along the Quebec
border in the possibilty of interference from Cuba and the Soviets.
Soooo,
there was resentment towards anything french/Quebec, not just in
Toronto, but out west (Alberta mainly). Whatever French-speakers
outside Quebec were in small cities or villages or countryside of New Brunswick (45% of the population) and Northern Ontario (40%),
but elsewhere it was rarely over 5%. Sure, at the height of the crisis
(75-77), the 400K Montrealers that oved towards Southern Ontario made
Totonto's economic power ever since (Montreal had been #1 until then),
but it didn't make it a bilingual city (despite the province being
officialy so).
I had many buddies and
non-buddies that resorted to the "they lost the late XVIIIth C and early
XIXth C wars, so f**k them froggies" type of argument. You can easily
imagine that's +/- less what happened between Belgrade and the rest of
the Yugo republcs in the early 90's, but thankfully, the Independance
referendum was delayed until things had cooled down - and the unofficial economic
embargo weakened wills.
What I'm trying to say
past this political context is that there was little any interest for
anything Frencho-Quebec in terms of cultural matters; especially that if
Montreal looked a lot at Paris (despite denying it), Toronto was
getting the flu when London was sneezing. Worlds apart really, despite
thousands of young Totontonites moving out to Montreal to party every
week-ends (looser alcohol laws and promiscuous women).
Of
course in artistic circles, this was much less a problem, but I can't
say that I saw many of those Québécois bands in Toronto during the 70's,
and once I was mobile in the early 80's, most of the Quebec prog scene
had vanished into oblivion, as the disco tsunami killed everything
over-there.
============
Now sure, we can discuss about those band's influences nationally or worldwide, but none were Genesis, Crimson or Yes or Kansas.
Sooo, yes, Quebec was the main point of entry for bands like VdGG and GG, but also Supertramp and Genesis.
Outside
The Prog-Quebec team (two anglophones from Montreal), there is little
interest in reviving that era's music, because it brings out a sense of
defeat (or so methinks) to the population. Sure Harmonium's Fiori is a
living God on TV nowadays, but most of the crowd still think of the
hippie attitude as negative.
===========
Personally
while I'm responsible of lobbying PA's quebecois owners of this site to
include most of the Quebec bands here, few were really groundbreaking.
FTM,
I'd even tend to think that the most inventive aspects of the "scene"
was into "electronic prog" with Michel Madore (the Komuso),
Dionne-Brégent and Pascal Languirand (though he was often in Paris),
rather than the symphonic, folkish or JR/F aspects. Sadly, only D-B has
been reissued on CD, which gives you an idea about the "influence" the
whole scene might've had.
.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: December 17 2024 at 05:29
Iantumaros wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Hey Svettie,
===========
You have evidently mistaken me for another individual.
Ah. Don't worry about that. On this forum, there is this sorta running gag that whenever a new user pops up and starts nerding hard about prog rock, we jokingly state that it's one of Svetonios many reincarnations.
-------------
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: December 17 2024 at 06:17
Hrychu wrote:
Iantumaros wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Hey Svettie,
===========
You have evidently mistaken me for another individual.
Ah. Don't worry about that. On this forum, there is this sorta running gag that whenever a new user pops up and starts nerding hard about prog rock, we jokingly state that it's one of Svetonios many reincarnations.
The sad thing is that it was Svetty in those contexts.
(I think it's a Svetty clone now as well)
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: December 18 2024 at 02:41
Sean Trane wrote:
FTM,
I'd even tend to think that the most inventive aspects of the "scene"
was into "electronic prog" with Michel Madore (the Komuso),
Dionne-Brégent and Pascal Languirand (though he was often in Paris),
rather than the symphonic, folkish or JR/F aspects. Sadly, only D-B has
been reissued on CD, which gives you an idea about the "influence" the
whole scene might've had.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: December 25 2024 at 15:58
The 1970s' bands from Québec that I know lead me to support the supposition that << rock progressif québécois >> as a whole is superior to that of the other North American countries of that era. I really like Harmonium, Pollen, Maneige, Séguin, Sloche, Conventum, Octobre, and Opus-5. As a whole I think they fully trump Mexico's Nirgal Vallis and Decibel, and even Nazca, Galié, Iconocasta, and Delirium (from the 1980s), and I definitely like them better than America's collective of Kansas, Happy The Man, Yezda Urfa, Utopia, The Residents, Pavlov's Dog, Captain Beyond, Sparks, Babylon, Cathedral, and Crack The Sky. (I'm leaving out the jazz-rock fusion artists and Zappa, whatever he was. Put in all the J-R Fuse artists and it's no contest, but many people participating in this thread will not equate Jazz-Rock Fusion with "Progressive Rock".)
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: December 25 2024 at 16:07
Bruford Freak wrote:
Utopia
I strongly disagree! Todd Rundgren's Utopia was an incredible achievement in technical experimentation and musical finesse. Those guys were already cutting edge when the Quebec prog movement was in its pre-infancy stage. If there is one North American 70s progressive rock band that showcases the level of excellence akin to the British pioneers such as Yes, Genesis, Gentle Giant et al., it's Utopia.
-------------
Posted By: Tobique
Date Posted: December 26 2024 at 07:36
It is no stretch to call 70's Quebec prog the apex of NA prog.
The next on the totem pole ,I hazard, would be mid-west prog. Bands like:Ethos,Albatros,Starcastle.
I find midwest prog of the 70s to be less experimental than Quebec and tinged towards AOR.
As to Ontario prog, you could count them with fingers of both hands. As the case with Ireland, Ontario 70s/early 80s prog lps number the scanty: The Hunt (first lp),Another Roadside Attraction,Symphonic Slam,True Myth,Terraced Garden,Spirit of Christmas, Dillinger,Saga,FM.
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 26 2024 at 09:37
Disagree. Lots of world class prog acts from the rest of Canada and North America.
Canada outside of Quebec: Rush, Warpig, Saga,
USA:
Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Santana, Chango, Sweet Smoke, Kansas,
Happy The Man, McLuhan, Pavlov's Dog, The Muffins, Utopia, Yezda Urfa,
Mirthrandir, Captain Beyond, Polyphony, Miles Davis, Mahavishnu
Orchestra, Herbie Hancock, Billy Cobham (born in Panama though), Return
To Forever, Al Di Meola, Oregon, Friends, John Abercrombie, Codona,
Dixie Dregs, Pat Metheny etc (i could go on)
Of
course as far as Canada goes Montreal pretty much ruled as far as
inventive prog bands go probably because Quebec had a closer affinity to
the European scene given its French heritage as opposed to the rest of
Canada looking southbound to the US
Posted By: Tobique
Date Posted: December 26 2024 at 12:03
I said MIDWEST (Illinois,Nebraska...), not the whole of America. (And not fusion). With exception of Polyphony, all those you mention are not midwest.(function(){function c(){var b=a.contentDocument||a.contentWindow.document;if(b){var d=b.createElement('script');d.innerHTML="window.__CF$cv$params={r:'8f8354b38fed3a04',t:'MTczNTIzOTgwNi4wMDAwMDA='};var a=document.createElement('script');a.nonce='';a.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js';document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(a);";b.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(d)}}if(document.body){var a=document.createElement('iframe');a.height=1;a.width=1;a.style.position='absolute';a.style.top=0;a.style.left=0;a.style.border='none';a.style.visibility='hidden';document.body.appendChild(a);if('loading'!==document.readyState)c();else if(window.addEventListener)document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded',c);else{var e=document.onreadystatechange||function(){};document.onreadystatechange=function(b){e(b);'loading'!==document.readyState&&(document.onreadystatechange=e,c())}}}})();< height="1" width="1" style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: none; visibility: ;">
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 26 2024 at 13:20
^ and why do you think i was responding to you? If
that were the case i would've quoted you or used an UP arrow. I was
responding to the premise of the thread
Posted By: Tobique
Date Posted: December 26 2024 at 15:55
correction: Yezda Urfa and McLuhan (I had to pull out my lp) are Chicago/area.(function(){function c(){var b=a.contentDocument||a.contentWindow.document;if(b){var d=b.createElement('script');d.innerHTML="window.__CF$cv$params={r:'8f84a5849bf8a229',t:'MTczNTI1MzYwMi4wMDAwMDA='};var a=document.createElement('script');a.nonce='';a.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js';document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(a);";b.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(d)}}if(document.body){var a=document.createElement('iframe');a.height=1;a.width=1;a.style.position='absolute';a.style.top=0;a.style.left=0;a.style.border='none';a.style.visibility='hidden';document.body.appendChild(a);if('loading'!==document.readyState)c();else if(window.addEventListener)document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded',c);else{var e=document.onreadystatechange||function(){};document.onreadystatechange=function(b){e(b);'loading'!==document.readyState&&(document.onreadystatechange=e,c())}}}})();< height="1" width="1" style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: none; visibility: ;">
And, of course, Kansas are midwest.
...................
Sweet Smoke were German.
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: December 26 2024 at 17:26
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Disagree. Lots of world class prog acts from the rest of Canada and North America.
Canada outside of Quebec: Rush, Warpig, Saga,
USA: Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Santana, Chango, Sweet Smoke, Kansas, Happy The Man, McLuhan, Pavlov's Dog, The Muffins, Utopia, Yezda Urfa, Mirthrandir, Captain Beyond, Polyphony, Miles Davis, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Herbie Hancock, Billy Cobham (born in Panama though), Return To Forever, Al Di Meola, Oregon, Friends, John Abercrombie, Codona, Dixie Dregs, Pat Metheny etc (i could go on)
Of course as far as Canada goes Montreal pretty much ruled as far as inventive prog bands go probably because Quebec had a closer affinity to the European scene given its French heritage as opposed to the rest of Canada looking southbound to the US
Great list, it saves me the trouble. But let's mention However, Atlantis Philharmonic, Larry Coryell & Eleventh House, [Kansas precursor] Proto-Kaw, Starcastle and Synergy, anyway.
As for Cobham, his family moved to Brooklyn when he was three, and he was drafted by the US Army in '65, so that makes him American however which way you cut it.
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: December 26 2024 at 18:20
BrufordFreak wrote:
The 1970s' bands from Québec that I know lead me to support the supposition that << rock progressif québécois >> as a whole is superior to that of the other North American countries of that era. I really like Harmonium, Pollen, Maneige, Séguin, Sloche, Conventum, Octobre, and Opus-5. As a whole I think they fully trump Mexico's Nirgal Vallis and Decibel, and even Nazca, Galié, Iconocasta, and Delirium (from the 1980s), and I definitely like them better than America's collective of Kansas, Happy The Man, Yezda Urfa, Utopia, The Residents, Pavlov's Dog, Captain Beyond, Sparks, Babylon, Cathedral, and Crack The Sky. (I'm leaving out the jazz-rock fusion artists and Zappa, whatever he was. Put in all the J-R Fuse artists and it's no contest, but many people participating in this thread will not equate <span style="font-size: medium;">Jazz-Rock Fusion with</span> "Progressive Rock".)
Iconoclasta's lineup changes but they continue to record. They're one of the first non-"Big 6/7/8/9/10" bands I learned of and got into and still like (a lot). I don't think they're "inferior" to anything produced within the boundary of Quebec.
Todd Rundgren's Utopia's first three albums are primo prog rock. I don't see how anyone can down-rate them, unless you just don't like Todd's voice.
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: December 26 2024 at 20:39
Don’t forget the Prog from Nunavut like Northern Haze and The Jerry Cans
Posted By: Licantropho
Date Posted: January 06 2025 at 09:23
Curiosly I've just discover this Québec Prog Scene and I'm amazed by the quality I'm finding here! Honestly, the only band I knew from Québec was Miriodor, as far as i know.
I didn't know this amazing contemporary-classic influenced Prog from the mid 70's! And I like it!! So I tend to agree with the provocative question!