Horror Prog
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=133904
Printed Date: February 17 2025 at 12:37
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Horror Prog
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Subject: Horror Prog
Date Posted: November 18 2024 at 12:17
Please recommend scary, horror progressive rock albums. I adore the Italian horror prog. I'm sure that I am not aware of all of it. Besides the Italians, please recommend others. Prog horror movie soundtracks are welcome.
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Replies:
Posted By: Zeph
Date Posted: November 18 2024 at 12:47
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Check out Devil Doll. Not only spooky, but also very good music. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: November 18 2024 at 13:05
Spooky, good, groovy horror prog is what I'm looking for.
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Zeph wrote:Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 18 2024 at 13:50
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Since you're no doubt familiar with the best of the Italians' output, here's a classic via Sweden. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: November 18 2024 at 14:05
^ 
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Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: November 18 2024 at 14:07
| Peter Hammil : A louse is not a home (from his Solo opus from 1974 The Silent corner and the empty stage) |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: November 18 2024 at 14:32
I'm familiar with 60% of the Italian horror prog. I have my blind spots. That said, the album you recommended sounds amazing! 
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Posted By: Starshiper
Date Posted: November 18 2024 at 15:19
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Pulsar – Halloween |
Posted By: Starshiper
Date Posted: November 18 2024 at 16:15
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Ian Gordon – The Black Church, from "The Horror Show" Ian Gordon – It's Just an Old House, from "The Horror Show" |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 18 2024 at 21:06
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Tangerine Dream did the soundtrack to the film Near Dark. Keith Emerson's first soundtrack Inferno was for Dario Argento in 1980. It's a good one. |
Posted By: Starshiper
Date Posted: November 18 2024 at 21:47
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Nil – Le Gardien, from "Nil Novo Sub Sole" Nil – Dérégénération, from "Nil Novo Sub Sole" |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 00:42
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I though this 2017 release was something really special. Thick with that cozy 1970's proghorror atmosphere I love so much. Ok, so it's comforting rather than scary to me, but the same goes for that Morte Macabre album. And Goblin... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 01:19
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^ Good stuff ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Starshiper
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 02:37
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Halloween – Yule Horror, from "Laz" Halloween – Laz, from "Laz" |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 09:23
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Saw this link..... https://www.loudersound.com/features/scariest-prog-songs-halloween" rel="nofollow - https://www.loudersound.com/features/scariest-prog-songs-halloween ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 09:25
I dig it. It's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for.
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 10:03
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Dragon (B) - Dragon (1976) This album is not particularly scary and probably not scary enough for you, Cindy, but I can at least recommend it for the beginners of "the genre" - like me.  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Starshiper
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 11:14
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Matthew Parmenter – In the Dark, from "Horror Express" Matthew Parmenter – Monsters From the Id, from "Horror Express" |
Posted By: A Crimson Mellotron
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 11:19
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3peBpYoJPA&list=OLAK5uy_nugZZy95JClHYStvTHgy8RETpqGiR4HCE&index=8" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3peBpYoJPA&list=OLAK5uy_nugZZy95JClHYStvTHgy8RETpqGiR4HCE&index=8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdsKvcOCGYM" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdsKvcOCGYM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob0OYmSQukk&list=OLAK5uy_nduCSEupfmLVlniQ0y4_SwkpZyigIadvk&index=2" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob0OYmSQukk&list=OLAK5uy_nduCSEupfmLVlniQ0y4_SwkpZyigIadvk&index=2 Off the top of my head! Enjoy
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 11:36
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Both the Umberto albums which these tracks are taken from are amazing (imo): |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 11:54
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John Carpenter's soundtracks might apply. Prog magazine has written some reviews on some of these. He has released 4 volumes of Lost Themes that might be of some appeal. ------------- 
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 12:06
Good call. Carpenter is an all-around talented man. I recently purchased the Alien 3 soundtrack, composed by Elliot Goldenthal. I own several Fabio Frizzi horror movie soundtracks, too. The Omen and Phantasm soundtracks are on my wish list.
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Posted By: Starshiper
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 12:27
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Anima Morte – The Nightmare Becomes Reality, from "The Nightmare Becomes Reality" Anima Morte – Passage of Darkness, from "The Nightmare Becomes Reality" |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 14:05
I have this Carpenter, a re-recording by him of his film music -- ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 14:08
That is an amazing score, and so different than Jerry Goldsmith's or James Horner's work which were more traditional cinema music. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 15:29
Actually, it's only the last track which is a bit scary, but it's a nice album.  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 19:44
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How about Jacula? that's some spooky occult music from 70's Italy, with church organ and all, ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Starshiper
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 20:54
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Vrajitor's Tenebrarium – E.N.L.D. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 21:15
| Yep agree with Carpenter and also would add the Alien soundtrack by Jerry Goldsmith. Christ that was proper creepy back in the day! |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 19 2024 at 21:36
Love this one! -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 20 2024 at 01:13
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There's loads and loads of fantastic 1970's (and early 1980's) "Horror Prog" scores. Here's a few favorites (where I love more or less the whole album, but releases of full scores are often a mess with tons of bonus material that's almost identical to each other etc... so I usually end up curating my own listen): Recently Reissued as with plenty of bonus stuff as Nightmare City. Amazing score interrupted by a (inoffensive) disco song sung by Grace Jones:) - and then we're back to the dark stuff again |
Posted By: Starshiper
Date Posted: November 20 2024 at 01:45
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Popol Vuh – Brüder Des Schattens, from "Nosferatu the Vampyre" (original soundtrack) Popol Vuh – Höre, Der Du Wagst, from "Nosferatu the Vampyre" (original soundtrack) |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 22 2024 at 16:51
I love the Phantasm score. I first bought the LP from the Varese shop via Fangoria. I've owned several iterations of the CD. The recent LP is a completely new remaster (still hoping they issue it on CD). Have you heard David Hughes' score for C.H.U.D.? ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 22 2024 at 17:09
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Saperlipopette!/Starshiper: This one deserves more mentions. Solamente Nero's score was composed by Stelvio Cipriani, but Goblin was brought in to play and record the music. (Check out 9:56 & 20:03) ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: November 23 2024 at 01:23
That one is a great album, methinks. Pity that it has been overlooked. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 23 2024 at 02:35
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 23 2024 at 02:36
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Posted By: Starshiper
Date Posted: November 23 2024 at 15:32
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Horrific Child – L'étrange Mr. Whinster |
Posted By: GuruCan
Date Posted: November 24 2024 at 02:15
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I’ve never actually jumped into Quake, but man, that game
soundtrack is one of the darkest I’ve ever heard. It’s got that classic
Nine Inch Nails vibe, really tapping into a creepy and ominous
atmosphere. You can totally feel it when you listen during these chilly
November evenings here in Seattle. |
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: December 14 2024 at 14:12
 Certainly one of the most disquieting records i ever heard (certainly when young) and best not listened to in an altered state or if of a sensitive disposition! ------------- |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: December 14 2024 at 16:25
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Unreal City - Horror Vacui An exceptional blend of 70's Italian Prog, vintage horror music and... cartoon underscores. ------------- “On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.” — Ernest Vong |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 16 2024 at 08:02
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Hi, I have a weird question. Would many of these be considered "horror" if their title/name did not say it, and the pictures were neutral? I have not exactly enjoyed a lot of the albums going back 50 years that considered themselves ... this or that ... and some times, they were so cardboard that made Walt Disney look cool and far out! I have not, yet, listened to most of the things listed here and will get to them this week. But the pictures, kinda take away your own visual and idea of the whole thing, which is often better than "being told" .... at least that has been like that for me in literature ... for many years. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 16 2024 at 08:09
Hi, I have had this album for some time, I think I got it in 1972 or so and the album was already 2 or 3 years old. It is a weird album, in my book, going from one side that is fun/funny, to a side that is a bit strange, and possibly suggestive of something else ... well, at least I can tell you that some Dennis Wheatley novels (FOR ME!) were a lot more descriptive and suggestive than that specific album side, which is ... for sure ... somewhat uncomfortable and makes one think and wonder about it. The two sides of the album ... kinda ... makes you wonder what all the hoopla is about ... but while it is suggestive, I tend to think that it is more experimental than it is serious ... and that's a thought, not necessarily a reality! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: December 16 2024 at 12:08
| ^ Great to see another reader of Dennis Wheatley. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 16 2024 at 14:03
Hi, Thx ... I got to read some of his novels way back when (50 years ago!!!), as a couple of movies were done, and some were way out there and I am not sure they ever got a wide release. I think the stories were too deep and ... it was obvious that someone knew what they were writing and why. I don't get a lot of that feeling in most rock music stuff ever done, otherwise ... but maybe I was expecting more than just a song ... not something like PLUS ... doing the 7 sins. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: January 16 2025 at 03:23
Delia Derbyshire had produced some very disturbing...frightening music beginning in the early 60s. She was innovative to the world of Electronic Music years before the Moog Synthesizer was in circulation. She experimented with sound generators. THE DREAMS by Delia Derbyshire & Barry Bermange is haunting. Electric Storm In Hell from White Noise is Satanic |
Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: February 09 2025 at 19:07
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A lot of "Horror Prog" is written around the idea or belief that there is a deity called Satan. In some cases it has been portrayed through a made up story or a Black Mass. For example...Black Widow , Coven, or Jacula. The subject matter itself has a theatrical presentation and through the lyricism or sing-song chanting you can feel acting. On a personal level I enjoy Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, and Goblin who all seem to focus on mysterious sounding music ...much more than the aforementioned. When listening to Univers Zero, Art Zoyd and Goblin you can interpret the music differently than a piece which rubs off on your consciousness as a Black Mass. Throughout the history of Avant Garde, Electronic Music,Classical, Jazz and many sub-genres of Progressive Rock it is evident that some composers were occultists. In some cases...( though delusional), they felt a connection to the "spirit world" and pursued supernatural experiences of their own through music they created. Steve Jolliffe is an ideal candidate, but there are many others. Instead of going the distance to purchase Aleister Crowley's house they extend their interest in the "Black arts" by sitting on a fence, ( so to speak) and their state of being undecided over what they read and believe surfaces through their music...while other musicians are pure occultists that have an inordinate interest in dangerous magic. Some composers were subjected to a occultism environment as children and have triggers in adult life. Nightmares are a source to draw from when composing a piece that is dark. Not in all cases would you even think about that as in most cases your creativity is influenced by your Nightmares and is a feeling that cannot be described with words...not unlike Gnosis. The music channels through you. It all occurs naturally. You have come into being...like the shadows and phantoms of the night. I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to not think of theory during this creative process. It's a better connection between you and the music if your mind is wiped clean. You think of nothing at all and the music controls your mind... Musicians writing dark sounding pieces often utilize the tri tone interval. Supposedly there has never been any evidence of the tri tone interval being banned from churches throughout history...but are you pulling my leg?? Are going to perform a piece which repeats the tri tone interval in a Christian church? I don't think so. No...playing Larks Tongues In Aspic Part I in a church where people believe in Christ? How do you think that would work out? You wouldn't allow it...correct? You can write variations of the tri tone interval.. you can create a harmony which is uneasy to the human ear. The unsettling nature of its tone when played on various instruments simultaneously can be luring, hypnotic and bewitching. I don't believe in the supernatural...but I'm merely stating a fact about the music and it's affect on people who are swept up by it ..when subjected to it. |
Posted By: meAsoi
Date Posted: February 09 2025 at 23:15
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Horrors Waiting in Line by Vaisseau is an album that screams for attention in this thread! |
Posted By: meAsoi
Date Posted: February 12 2025 at 01:02
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I would tag the Legendary Pink Dots' album The Museum of Human Happiness as progressive horror-pop. I believe it would be adequate. |
Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: February 12 2025 at 10:07
Somewhat impressionable to me. It brings back some haunting memories of a occultism environment as a child. ...not so much horror movies and music as much as real people around me. To be precise...occultists. Wealthy people dressing in costumes you might recognize seeing on Dark Shadows. Strange people. Odd people who believe in the devil. Who seem to be deluding in life...who have multiple personalities.. |
Posted By: meAsoi
Date Posted: February 12 2025 at 10:42
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: February 12 2025 at 11:07
Coven - I wasn't sure witch track to choose for a brief spell, but Black Sabbath seems as good an unholy place as any to start.  |
Posted By: IncogNeato
Date Posted: February 12 2025 at 11:37
That is quite interesting.
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Posted By: meAsoi
Date Posted: February 12 2025 at 16:14
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Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: February 12 2025 at 17:05
People believed it was . It would be interesting to cross paths with someone one day who may have had similar experiences and have conversation. It's highly unlikely. In my youth I was subjected to people who were into Duo Worship. God in the day, Satan in the night. It had nothing to do with the Church Of Satan short of people turning against LaVey and leaving it for a different belief system which they had been forbidden to pursue. This group had an inordinate interest in Luciferian practices and or occult practices. They practiced a particular ritual which derived from a Judeo-Christian concept. They were interrogated by police after a body was discovered. They discovered a box made out of metal with carvings of Egyptian hieroglyphics on the outside. On the inside were hallways that led through a maze. An animal would be placed inside the box ..then slamming the door piercing the animal with sharp nails located on the inside. ...having similarities to an "iron maiden". They would lower a child into a pit full of dead snakes and they would stand above the pit chanting and trying to channel a demon through the child. They applied the same thing with "Automatic Writing " using a feathered pen to write messages on paper as they chanted. As if they tried to communicate with the dead. Their main interest seemed to revolve around demons having hierarchies and legions..leagues. They were completely delusional...imo...to believe that a human sacrifice could be a cause to gain power...or the Philosopher's Stone..or whatever??? They displayed multiple personalities and they were delusional to trust in ancient books or scriptures that say so. Something written centuries ago and you don't know how many hands it's passed through or if the desert fathers Writing it were hallucinating. And they just cave in and completely trust in something that had existed before recorded history . It's not fact based...there's no evidence...its just made up stories. Everyone belonging to this cult ...aside from a selective amount of occultists...ended up in mental hospitals throughout the remaining 70s and were never able to function properly in the community again...and that was a lot of people. |
Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: February 12 2025 at 17:08
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Posted By: meAsoi
Date Posted: February 12 2025 at 18:24
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@Jacob Schoolcraft I love it, man; I love those stories... I love reading about Aleister Crowley, Anton Szandor LaVey, and his Church of Satan in San Francisco and all that crazy stuff from the hippy era.
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Posted By: Valdez
Date Posted: February 12 2025 at 19:28
Someone once asked Sammy Davis Jr. why he belonged to the church of Satan, he replied “I’m just here for the crazy chicks man!” ------------- https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024 |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 12 2025 at 19:55
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The single most unintentionally funny thing about LaVey is that he died completely broke. He was living on handouts! ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: meAsoi
Date Posted: February 13 2025 at 01:35
However, despite being the founder and the leader of the Church of Satan, LaVey wasn't really an occultist; Crowley was.
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Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 13 2025 at 03:47
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Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 13 2025 at 09:19
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The 1970 film Les cauchemars naissent la nuit (translation: Nightmares Come at Night, by Spanish director Jesús "Jess" Franco) is about two exotic dancers who become caught up in a maze of delusions, psychosis, and finally murder. With its avant-garde jazzy and proggy blend of tense orchestral arrangements and unnerving, eerie sounds, Italian film music composer Bruno Nicolai's soundtrack enhances the creepy yet dreamlike atmosphere and creates a sense of unease that perfectly matches the surreal and terrifying tone of the movie. |
Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: February 13 2025 at 22:25
Members of the Menantico cult were not hippies... I wouldn't consider them to have those characteristics and they definitely didn't dress like they belonged to the times we were living in ( 1970). They were obsessed with this "One Hundred Year Ritual " which supposedly took place in the Menantico area in 1871 . A High priestess was a hostess in a local restaurant where I worked. People that I knew began disappearing which wasn't unusual to everyone around me ...as many people thought they must have hitchhiked or lived a vagabond style of existence that was common back then...however I suspected foul play. Between 30 to 40 members met at Menantico. They would walk calmly down a path leading through the Pine Barrens until they reached the worship site by the water. They wore cloaks and masks and danced. They pounded on oil barrels which emulated drum sounds from a Ben Hur movie. They often began with a sing-song chanting which later developed into screaming. The sounds would travel across the water and people camping at Menantico would go into a complete panic and begin running. More panic developed when people were unsure if they were running away from the vile chorus or towards it. There was a lot of dancing and chanting. There was rape . Some people were chased by cult members. Several of these people have come forward over the last 20 plus years and posted their experiences on the internet. It was frightening to the locals but the city officials ignored the reports. There was no investigation until a body submerged in "Clear Pond" Aftewards the authorities began taking it seriously. It is my suspicion that cult members knew actress Barbara Hutton...whose family owned the Woolworth Five And Dime stores. Frank W. Woolworth that is. The Frank Woolworth mausoleum was eerie. He originally had a mansion built for his sister just outside Pleasantville, New Jersey on the way to Atlantic City. It overlooked the bay and was known as the Sandcastle. Supposedly Barbara Hutton used to visit and spend hours in the "Spirit Room" located at the top of the structure. She did not live there but Supposedly she spent time there trying to communicate with the dead.... Cult members who were interrogated by the police were wealthy. The cult had a wealthy background. In 1970 there was widespread cultic activity in the area. The ritual was directly tied into Christian/Satanism in the belief that a self-sacrifice would engender the protection of Christian demons. Like a role playing game the entire concept was strictly based on Christian demonology. This sacrifice was a Judeo-Christian concept derived from medieval theologians where demons had hierarchies and legions. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 15 2025 at 20:23
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A friend of mine plays in the Cinematic Symphonic Orchestra in Cleveland. I just finished live streaming them playing a Valentine's concert. They played romantic songs from movies such as Romeo and Juliet, Titanic, Pearl Harbor, and many others. Anyways, on April 12th they are playing a Sci-fi Spectacular live in Cleveland. Not sure if it will be livestreamed or not, but I think that it might since they livestreamed today's concert. At any rate of interest to this thread, they are playing A Symphony of Horrors A Score of Halloween in October 2025. Not sure what music they will be playing, but I assume that some John Carpenter will be present, and maybe with any luck some Goblin, or some of the other music listed here. At any rate, here is a link to their website, if this might be of interest. https://cinematicsymphony.org/concerts/" rel="nofollow - Concerts - Cinematic Symphony Orchestra | Live Movie Music Another note of interest for PA fans, when the conductor introduced the music for Romeo and Juliet from the 1968 movie, he noted that Paul McCartney and Phil Collins were both considered for the role of Romeo in the movie. He also made mention something about Phil Collins being a child actor before going on to be a prog rock drummer. It is the little things, but I got a kick out of Prog Rock being mentioned at a symphony concert. LOL -------------
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: February 15 2025 at 21:35
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The album Mémoires Incubussiennes by Ex-Cubus gives me the vibe of golden age horror movies. ------------- “On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.” — Ernest Vong |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: February 15 2025 at 23:13
Has this one been mentioned yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZVhFslnlHk" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZVhFslnlHk They probably have other stuff that qualifies also.
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 16 2025 at 04:09
Thanks for posting this one. I own several Jess Franco films. I dig the jazzy soundtracks. That said, I'd never heard/seen this movie.
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Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 16 2025 at 05:24
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Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: February 16 2025 at 05:28
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^ Pretty much the same here - not familiar with this oeuvre by Uncle Jess so will have to seek it out, as well as the soundtrack. Thanks for the recommendation. ------------- Is it any wonder that the monkey's confused? |
Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 16 2025 at 05:45
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: February 17 2025 at 00:19
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------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 17 2025 at 04:52
| ^ I did not know Klaus Morlock existed. I will delve deeper. Should be fun. |